Hello guys!
I need help.
I built the Noisy Cricket using this layout:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5pg10UsNw7A/T466nTDBnTI/AAAAAAAABP4/wvrSbuXLVkE/s1600/Noisy+Cricket+MkII.png)
Here's the schematic:
(http://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/noisy-criket/noisy-cricket-small.gif)
Noisy Cricket Analysis: http://www.electrosmash.com/noisy-cricket-analysis (http://www.electrosmash.com/noisy-cricket-analysis).
Somebody want this kind of LM386 amp cleaner, but they can't. I can, but I don't want it. My Noisy Cricket sounds really clean!
I thought this amp was dirty, but with Gain and Volume at max it is stil clean, and the the Grit make really little difference. Tone maybe is a bit subtle, but it works. Even the Bass Boost is a bit subtle, but I think it works.
I was using a LM386N-1, but then I broke one of its pins >:(. I replaced it with a LM386L (thanks IC Socket). No difference. I connected the status led, it works.
I forgot the filter 220uF cap on the 9v, I'm using a 100uF on sockets, but tried a 330uF. The transistor is a MPF102, but I tried a 2N5457 and a J201. Nice clean with them, too. ::)
I power up it with a Boss psu. But tried with battery, too.
Now the Gain pot is got off, I joined the two wires coming from pin 1 and pin 8.
Checked the resistors, caps, wires.
If I take off the 100uF the power filter cap I got a drop of volume, a fuzzy and gated distortion
LM386L voltages:
Pin 1: 1,32v
Pin 2: 0,00v
Pin 3: 0,00v
Pin 4: 0,00v
Pin 5: 2,66v
Pin 6: 8,99v
Pin 7: 4,61v
Pin 8: 1,32v
MPF102 voltages:
D: 8,99v
S: 2,68v
G: 0,00v
Thank you, guys! ;)
Rewritten the voltages, sorry.
It is odd that pin 5, we expect at +4.5V or +5V, is under 3V.
There could be a short screwing-up bias, but I'm not clear where.
And low pin 5 should distort *sooner*, not later?
Thank you.
I'm trying to put it on breadboard, I hope I can understand something more.
I'm following this breadboard layout.
(http://i.imgur.com/8AujRLT.png)
I connected pin 1 and 8 of the LM386. Gain at max.
I'm using a jumper for the grit switch, I can connect or disconnect it.
I want to replace the tone pot with a resistor (50k?). I want leave out even the volume pot, but with volume setted at max. But I need some instructions for all this connection on the breadboard.
Thank you.
Isn't a cap necessary between pin 1 and 8 for maximum gain?
When volume pot is at max. the lug 2 is connected to lug 3. So, for a fixed setup you remove the pot and connect C2 to the next point, i.e. VR3 (or your 50k resistor suggestion) and C6.
I might be wrong.
There's no cap between pin 1 and 8 in the schematic nor in the veroboard layout. Probably it isn't necessary.
Anyway, the circuit on my breaboard sounds bad, distorted but I can hear the volume barely and seems much gated. It is a cheap breadboard I can't trust on it. ::) Unless I wrong to connect the jumper and the resistor for volume e tone pot. :-\
I passed the iron solder on the board, but nothing changed.
The wiring: ground from the board, negative of the battery and the negative of the led are joined, and them goes to the output sleeve. The output sleeve is connected to the input sleeve. Input from the board goes on the tip of the input jack, output from the board goes to the tip of the output jack.
> Isn't a cap necessary between pin 1 and 8
Not really.
Worst-case, the input offset DC error is multiplied by gain, 200. With 5mA input error, that is 1V output error. "4.5V" could be 3.5 or 5.5. When the '386 was new, National wanted you to use the cap so your output power measurements didn't fall shy of the spec. But recent '386 should have much lower offset, and we are not measuring for an exact output power.
I can't built it again, I have to fix this.
I want to take off everything the amp doesn't need.
Gain pot is already left out. I used to joined the two wires (pin 1 & pin 8).
I think I can't take off the Grit Switch, and its 100nF cap, between Grit 1 and pin 5. The amp should keep working anyway.
Quote from: PRR on August 18, 2016, 12:09:26 AM
It is odd that pin 5, we expect at +4.5V or +5V, is under 3V.
There could be a short screwing-up bias, but I'm not clear where.
[...]
The only things connected to the pin 5 should be the 10R resistor, the "Grit 100nF cap" and the positive side of the 220uF cap.
I can't explain this:
Quote from: Elijah-Baley on August 17, 2016, 10:15:26 AM
[...]
If I take off the 100uF the power filter cap I got a drop of volume, a fuzzy and gated distortion
[...]
Why?!
> If I take off the 100uF the power filter cap I got a drop of volume, a fuzzy and gated distortion
The power supply IS a "signal pin". (Especially if you have not heavily bypassed the Bypass pin.)
Output load makes power sag, that gets back in the amplifier, gets re-amplified, it screams or throws itself on the floor (gates).
In general "ALL" amplifiers need good supply supply bypassing. Some more than others. Extra-more here because it is a pretty high current amp.
Find the National LM386 datasheet and try the TESTED plans in there.
QuoteI can't built it again, I have to fix this.
My first LM386 based circuit was the build that made me reconsider (for a short time) if I was cut out for any of this. I had grabbed a layout and schematic from the net and just couldn't make it work, horrible buzzing etc. no matter what I did, then another problem, then another. I finally said screw it, grabbed the datasheet for the 386 and the datasheet for the MPF102, studied them and the example circuits in them and rolled my own. Both amps I built as a result are still working today and one is my bedroom practice amp.
So the point is stick with it, In my humble, inexperienced opinion that circuit can be tricky enough to drive you mad because you can't know what you don't know - or (even more likely) I was simply that green at the time. Nevertheless I cut my teeth making that damn thing work but what I learned helped with every build after that.
what kind of speaker are you using? what Ohm is it? if you notice in the schematic there is a 220uf output capacitor, but on the layout it is only 10uf. From my understanding you can play with the power resistor 3.9k that goes to MPF and go up to 10k, How good of shape is your breadboard in. Mine is worn out, and i did a simple build last night that gave me a hugh range of sounds just from randomly wiggling different parts. I know Aron who runs this site has a tutorial to use a 386 as a simple voltage divider to get your 9v, 4.5v, ground for IC build, so from my understanding a 386 that is working properly with output 4.5v, so if your getting 3 could be the chip. IM Still Learning, and cant backup technically any of how or why these things work like they do, but ive done alot with the 386 so these are just observations that MAYBE could help.
I could try the tested schematic on the LM386's datasheet, but the Noisy Cricket is very verified, even the tagboard layout. It should work fine.
I built a Smokey Amp, with gain pot (without caps), power filter cap (it needs with the PSU) and master volume. It works great, sparkle clean and good hard rock style crunch.
I tested the circuit with an 8" guitar speaker 8 Ohm.
There's a mistake on the breadboard, I know. My board has a 220uF as output capacitor.
I tried a LM386N-1 (I broke a pin, then andI soldered it, I don't know if it will work again), and now I'm trying with a LM 386L.
Today I have to test it with the LM386L of my Smokey Amp. Then I'll try to take off the Grit switch and its cap. Let's see what happens.
I swapped the LM386L with that on my Smokey Amp, no changing.
On my Smokey Amp the IC's voltages are almost the same, except pin 5. My Smokey Amp measured 5,88! The Noisy Cricket 2,66v. The Smokey is distorted and louder.
I'm gonna take off the Grit Switch now.
Edit:
Still clean without Grit Switch and 100nF cap.
I replaced the output cap 220uF with socket pin and tried a 100uF (I had just it), nothing.
The volume pot is Linear, not Log as the tagboard layout would, but I guess it doesn't matter.
Edit 2:
Desoldered the Tone pot. Clean.
Desoldered the Volume pot e soldered the input wire on the strip of pin 2. Clean! Very nice clean, but CLEAN!
Except some parts the big difference between this and the Smokey Amp is the inpunt. Pin 3 for the Smokey Amp with Pin 2 and 4 at the ground, Pin 2 for the Noisy Cricket (and Ruby Amp), with Pin 3 and 4 at the ground.
And now?
Looks like you will end up with a good -- CLEAN -- mini amp project
at least :o
Yes, I'm considering this, but I was building an amp with a gain pot and a Grit Switch and Bass Boost. I get just a bit of break up if I hit hard the strings, at max gain.
Now I got Smoeky Amp with some filters and it still sounds clean.
Should I reverse pin 2 and pin 3? I wanted put input in pin 3, and pin 2 and pin 4 at the ground. Should I get problems with this?
Man, I really got lost here..don't know.
My first 386 amp was a Smokey, (not CLEAN at all).
It was almost the same as the datasheet minimum parts aplication suggested.
Then I moved to Ruby (1/2 CLEAN).
I got problems with identifying the inverting and non-inverting input because mine was 386N something that was the inverse (pin 2 and 3) that the schematics I was followingd. I remember that it was then that I meet datasheets..
Whatever, I can't help you but wish you luck
MySsmokey Amp sounds almost like that, I use it with a 8" guitar speaker, that make a big difference, I got more definition and a good eq.
I think LM386L or LM386N are pretty similar, maybe the same. L is by UTC, N is by Texas instruments.
This won't fix any voltage issues, but I've built a couple of Ruby amps - one I use now for a quick practice and effects-testing amp. The one I took apart to scavenge was a MarshaRuby, which never cleaned up! It utilizes the NTE458 jfet, which has more drive.
If my brief read of the datasheet and posts over on the TI forum are accurate, that 'grit switch' is an exploitation of the chip's design, meaning I'm sure it normally works but I'd have to wonder if it always works in every build and every rendition of that chip - all it is doing is strapping a 100n across pins 1/7 FYI. I'm sure they had a decent reason for it in lieu of just changing the gain structure via pins 1 and 8 but if you can't make it work you can get a gain up to 200 (translation=not clean) based on how you wire a pot/cap across pins 1 and 8. I'm guessing that exploit is to potentially provide a more musical grit than clipping outright.
And for those who actually know what they are talking about - keep me honest please.
Thanks for the sharing, guys!
I don't know what exactly do the Grit switch because my issue, it make very subtle difference. But I have excluded, my issue is somewhere else.
Meanwhile, I breadboarded (this word exists?) my simplified version. I mean: LM386 with a 100uF as output cap, the RC 10R - 47nF, the 100nF between pin 6 and ground. I get a squealing sound (happend with the Smokey amp on breadboard, too), and it is distorted. The voltage on pin 5 is 4,10v, my battery is dying,
The LM386 doesn't sound clean, I bypassed the buffer, so there must be something wrong, some hidden mistake in the second half part. I have to find it.
Quote
I don't know what exactly do the Grit switch because my issue, it make very subtle difference.
Chances are then that is precisely why they call it grit and not a distortion switch. Grit is a term that infers something far more subtle than distortion.
QuoteI get a squealing sound
Depending on what kind of squeal... Strap a 100u or 220u across the power rail for starters. At higher gains I think the unused input might benefit from a .1u to ground for stability but check the hints in the datasheet or wait for someone better than I to chime in. I know though that everyone I have built oscillated horribly without that cap on the power rail.
I expected that grit was subtle, I mean, LM386 is a simple circuit and that is the gain, it can be a modern high gain afterall.
I added 100uF as filter, but nothing. Anyway, I got the squel with while I improve the smokey, on the stripboard it sounds good.
Now on the board there's only: LM386, 220uF output cap, 10R and 47nF, 100nF between pin 6 and ground, 100uF power filter. The voltage on pin 5 is 4,50v.
Guess... clean. :o
If a take off the 100uF power filter I go gated fuzz squealing sound. Clean with it.
:icon_frown:
Solved! ;)
I worked hard, the board was perfect, I have to say I made mistake rarely on the boards.
The wiring was "wrong". I forgot, LM386, as my improved Smokey Amp, must have some kind of wiring. I can't keep the two sleeves connected with a wire, but I have to connect both of them on the board's ground.
It sounds ok. Nice the Grit Mode, nice the Bass Boost, nice distorion, and nice the sparkly clean. No more real clean, but that's ok. :P
Pictures when I take it.
Thanks!
Hi, I made a test. I tried to insert a switch I used in My Smokey Amp VGC: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=107060.msg1057515#msg1057515 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=107060.msg1057515#msg1057515).
It doesn't work fine, I got noise after the first note, a sort of oscillating, I think? Start with a 150R until a 100R resistor. This last resistor got warm after a few seconds.
Ok. No Class Switch at this time. Never mind, the Noisy has enough switches.
I'm working on the box.
Stucked again. About.
I found out that if I connect dircetly the sleeves of the jacks (input and output) I got clean sound (or almost). That was the reason.
Now I have these sleeves that aren't isolated and the box is a BB aluminium. I had a plastic jack and with this I had replace the input jack. But I had some ground issue I guess, when I touched the box the amp was noisy. (And it seems to me even a bit faulty, the signal is discontinuous).
I had isolated the input jack with the tape and a washer of the plastic jack. ::) Now it works fine and I'm wiring well the amp.
Anyway, what washer could I use for the input jack and to take off the unsafe and ugly tape and the "not-perfect-fit" washer?
I was looking for here: http://www.musikding.de/Hex-nuts-plastics (http://www.musikding.de/Hex-nuts-plastics) and here: http://www.musikding.de/Plastic-washer (http://www.musikding.de/Plastic-washer).
Thanks! ;)
You can try to use a BF245C fet instead of MPF 102, pay attention to the pinout , ;)
Thanks, but why should I try the BF245? Just for try?
Anyway, I fixed, someway, the jacks. Pictures are coming, really.
Tell me about the jack washers, please.
Why isolated jack didn't work? Should I use one for input and one for output?
I couldn't make the Cricket work with an MPF102 or any of the other buffers I found at AMZ. It's weird because, as I understand it, a lot of people have built this exactly as in the schematic.
I ended up stripping it down to a variation of the Smokey, sounds great, tons of distortion.
I put it in an Altoids tin and stuck it to the back of a Sony bookshelf speaker that I found in the street.
(http://a67.tinypic.com/16c3lhd.jpg)
Here's my version and layout:
(http://a67.tinypic.com/2d7ac28.jpg)
It sounds great with a SHO Clone in front of it with about 1/2 boost.
Maybe that SHO circuit can be modified to attach to the front of the LM386 circuit?
Thanks for sharing!
I have to say my Smokey Amp sounds great, too, and with even much distortion. It doesn't have a volume pot before the input, but just the Gain pot, so the "volume of the amp" is always to max, I guess. I added, because I absolutely must, a Volume Master Little Gem style.
The circuit is still a Smokey Amp basic, and so is even simpler than yours because, except the two pots I added only a 100uF filter cap. I use it with my DIY simple cabinet with a 8" speaker. Yes, it sounds great.
A cool and easy mod is a resistor for cutting a bit of voltage and get more distortion, thought I lost a bit of volume.
The Noisy Cricket sounds good enough, but if I want more distortion I have to keep the Volume high, and of course I don't want it every time. In clean settings is enjoyable, too. The Tone control and the bass boost are useful.
If I want about the same distortion of the Smokey I don't to have connect directly the two sleeves, as I explain earlier, else I got a slight overdrive.
I remain in waiting for some advice about the isolation of the input jack, thanks.
:D
Edit:
Pictures!
(http://i.imgur.com/aQlSVhe.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1nWrtZr.jpg)
That looks really nice EB. I'll have to try the resistor mod for extra distortion, thanks.
I breadboarded a RAT last night and it sounds even better than the SHO as a booster for my Smokeytoid. All the benefits of the gain, tone and volume controls plus it gets really loud.
I think it would be cool to build a RAT and Smokey into an enclosure like yours.
Is there a chance of damaging the LM386 when pushing it so hard with a RAT?
Quote from: Elijah-Baley on September 02, 2016, 12:59:30 PM
Thanks, but why should I try the BF245? Just for try?
Anyway, I fixed, someway, the jacks. Pictures are coming, really.
Tell me about the jack washers, please.
Why isolated jack didn't work? Should I use one for input and one for output?
BF245c is a very Hi Gain Jfet, I try to use it in a AMZ splitter and it seems to play in a hi gain amp!!
Quote from: Ben Lyman on September 03, 2016, 11:59:12 AM
That looks really nice EB. I'll have to try the resistor mod for extra distortion, thanks.
I breadboarded a RAT last night and it sounds even better than the SHO as a booster for my Smokeytoid. All the benefits of the gain, tone and volume controls plus it gets really loud.
I think it would be cool to build a RAT and Smokey into an enclosure like yours.
Is there a chance of damaging the LM386 when pushing it so hard with a RAT?
My DIY Rat is a four mode clipping: silicon, germanium (+mosfet), red led and no clipping.
I have no idea if the LM386 could be damaged in somehow with a pedal or circuit in front of it. ???
Thanks, hippo, about the BF245C. ;)
QuoteThe Noisy Cricket sounds good enough, but if I want more distortion I have to keep the Volume high, and of course I don't want it every time.
It's a tiny amp, you can treat it like an amp and put oh heck, I dunno, pedals in front of it. :) :) I also put an effects loop in mine between the buffer and amp sections which I use with my delay. Fun little amps...
(http://imgur.com/R61uN1S.jpg)