Hello! Once in a while you drill a hole or two in the wrong spot and while trying to find a solution, your vision slowly degrades because of the tears filling your eyes. Of course bigger holes are going to be hard to fix and you might as well just scrap the enclosure and start over. (Or use it to try out new paint and stuff in the future.)
How about smaller holes? Is there a filler or something I can use to fill the hole? Something that sits very well in the hole and becomes invisible after painting. I personally use spray paint so it doesn't need to be very heat resistant. Just 10 minutes ago I drilled a 2mm hole on the underside of an enclosure in the completely wrong spot. Of course I can just put a small screw in it, but if I did that, my perfectionism would kill me.
Thanks!
JB Weld? Bondo?
They make a product called steel putty or some such...I usually use it to attach standoffs and the like. You break off a piece, knead it for a bit, and apply where needed. It can be sanded and painted when it hardens.
JB Weld works quite well, ever for larger holes. I've fixed misplaced 1/4" jack holes with it. I used parchment paper as a backing, held in place by a larger piece of gaffers tape big enough to hang over all the edges (because tape won't stick to parchment paper). Once fully cured, JB Weld is easily sanded flush, and redrilling is no problem.
Great! Thanks for the replies. I'll look up the products mentioned and see which one is the easiest to get ahold of where I live.
Quote from: EBK on January 27, 2017, 08:31:58 PM
JB Weld works quite well, ever for larger holes. I've fixed misplaced 1/4" jack holes with it. I used parchment paper as a backing, held in place by a larger piece of gaffers tape big enough to hang over all the edges (because tape won't stick to parchment paper). Once fully cured, JB Weld is easily sanded flush, and redrilling is no problem.
Do you know which JB Weld product you used?
Quote from: xorophone on January 27, 2017, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: EBK on January 27, 2017, 08:31:58 PM
JB Weld works quite well, ever for larger holes. I've fixed misplaced 1/4" jack holes with it. I used parchment paper as a backing, held in place by a larger piece of gaffers tape big enough to hang over all the edges (because tape won't stick to parchment paper). Once fully cured, JB Weld is easily sanded flush, and redrilling is no problem.
Do you know which JB Weld product you used?
It was either J-B Weld twin tube or KwikWeld twin tube. Pretty sure it was KwikWeld (all my tools are boxed up for a move at the moment).
Just noticed they have a product called TankWeld. That would be great for patching up a Green Russian Big Muff, I bet. :icon_lol:
Quote from: EBK on January 27, 2017, 09:19:05 PM
Quote from: xorophone on January 27, 2017, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: EBK on January 27, 2017, 08:31:58 PM
JB Weld works quite well, ever for larger holes. I've fixed misplaced 1/4" jack holes with it. I used parchment paper as a backing, held in place by a larger piece of gaffers tape big enough to hang over all the edges (because tape won't stick to parchment paper). Once fully cured, JB Weld is easily sanded flush, and redrilling is no problem.
Do you know which JB Weld product you used?
It was either J-B Weld twin tube or KwikWeld twin tube. Pretty sure it was KwikWeld (all my tools are boxed up for a move at the moment).
Just noticed they have a product called TankWeld. That would be great for patching up a Green Russian Big Muff, I bet. :icon_lol:
Ah, so I'm guessing I just need to look for a steel reinforced epoxy. Other brands probably work fine too, but I'll try to get some from J-B Weld.
Thank you, Eric! Good luck with the move! :)
My suggestions:
- filler can be anything hard setting and plastic-like (i.e not plaster of paris :)), like epoxy (either filled like JB Weld or unfilled like Araldite), polystyrene/nitrocellulose (car body filler).
- a very light countersink either side of the panel and some heavy scratching ('keying') inside the hole - coarse sandpaper or file - wouldn't hurt if you can do it...
- make sure you remove ALL traces of grease and oil from the area to be filled.
- wipe some of the filler onto the surfaces you want it to stick to with a little pressure to break any surface tension before loading the filler.
- bigger holes may need a little backing up, especially if the fill is to be any more than cosmetic.
- mix the filler carefully to avoid getting air mixed in.
- many of these filler materials will shrink a little bit during curing, so overfill the visible 'face' side slightly (will require sanding back after).
david
Quote from: greaser_au on January 28, 2017, 06:31:50 AM
My suggestions:
- filler can be anything hard setting and plastic-like (i.e not plaster of paris :)), like epoxy (either filled like JB Weld or unfilled like Araldite), polystyrene/nitrocellulose (car body filler).
- a very light countersink either side of the panel and some heavy scratching ('keying') inside the hole - coarse sandpaper or file - wouldn't hurt if you can do it...
- make sure you remove ALL traces of grease and oil from the area to be filled.
- wipe some of the filler onto the surfaces you want it to stick to with a little pressure to break any surface tension before loading the filler.
- bigger holes may need a little backing up, especially if the fill is to be any more than cosmetic.
- mix the filler carefully to avoid getting air mixed in.
- many of these filler materials will shrink a little bit during curing, so overfill the visible 'face' side slightly (will require sanding back after).
david
all great tips. I especially like the idea of a light countersink on each side. Would create a nice double flange to keep the epoxy "coin" from popping out in either direction.
stick extra LEDs in them, you can never have too many LEDs :)
Quote from: slacker on January 28, 2017, 08:25:19 AM
stick extra LEDs in them, you can never have too many LEDs :)
Just imagining a 10mm LED added to fill a large misplaced hole. :icon_lol:
Blind grommets. Seems to be important enough to have specialist suppliers...
https://www.grommets.co.uk/products/grommets/blind-rubber-grommets/
If I went to trouble of making a flawless fill of the hole, there's a very good chance I'll change my mind afterwards and decide I do want a hole there after all.
Quote from: anotherjim on January 28, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Blind grommets. Seems to be important enough to have specialist suppliers...
https://www.grommets.co.uk/products/grommets/blind-rubber-grommets/
If I went to trouble of making a flawless fill of the hole, there's a very good chance I'll change my mind afterwards and decide I do want a hole there after all.
I think you misdrill more carefully than I misdrill. :icon_wink:
Quote from: greaser_au on January 28, 2017, 06:31:50 AM
My suggestions:
- filler can be anything hard setting and plastic-like (i.e not plaster of paris :)), like epoxy (either filled like JB Weld or unfilled like Araldite), polystyrene/nitrocellulose (car body filler).
- a very light countersink either side of the panel and some heavy scratching ('keying') inside the hole - coarse sandpaper or file - wouldn't hurt if you can do it...
- make sure you remove ALL traces of grease and oil from the area to be filled.
- wipe some of the filler onto the surfaces you want it to stick to with a little pressure to break any surface tension before loading the filler.
- bigger holes may need a little backing up, especially if the fill is to be any more than cosmetic.
- mix the filler carefully to avoid getting air mixed in.
- many of these filler materials will shrink a little bit during curing, so overfill the visible 'face' side slightly (will require sanding back after).
david
Ah, those are some great tips! Thank you so much, David! :)
That probably means I'll be able to use my "normal" epoxy too and not have to buy the steel reinforced stuff. I've got some Loctite Power Epoxy already.
Quote from: anotherjim on January 28, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Blind grommets. Seems to be important enough to have specialist suppliers...
https://www.grommets.co.uk/products/grommets/blind-rubber-grommets/
If I went to trouble of making a flawless fill of the hole, there's a very good chance I'll change my mind afterwards and decide I do want a hole there after all.
Thanks Jim! This time I'm 100% sure I don't want the hole, so I'll probably just fill it with epoxy this time, but nice product to keep in mind!
I've used epoxy before, but prefer jb weld, simple to work with and strong. Easy to sand as well. Try ace hardware, home depot, Lowe's, or order from amazon.
If in the uk... chemical metal. :)
Quote from: deadastronaut on January 29, 2017, 06:46:53 AM
If in the uk... chemical metal. :)
Or just order J-B Weld through amazon.co.uk
(I'm assuming the Amazon experience there is similar to here in the US -- competitively low prices with fast shipping. Don't get me started talking about Amazon Prime. That sh*t is magical! :icon_cool: -- Not affiliated, in case my sig didn't make that clear)
Quote from: davepedals on January 29, 2017, 01:40:40 AM
I've used epoxy before, but prefer jb weld, simple to work with and strong. Easy to sand as well. Try ace hardware, home depot, Lowe's, or order from amazon.
I've actually filled the hole with epoxy already. I filled it yesterday so I'm going to check on it today. Hopefully it's good enough!
I'll probably still order some J-B Weld and use it in the future, though.
Quote from: deadastronaut on January 29, 2017, 06:46:53 AM
If in the uk... chemical metal. :)
I'm in Sweden, but it looks like it's available here too, if you're not talking about a specific brand. Do you think chemical metal is better for this application than J-B Weld?
Thanks! :)
Loctite makes really good adhesives in general, so I would bet their product is roughly equivalent, especially in this low temp application.
JB-Weld SteelStik.. easy to work with, sets in about 3 minutes, cures in about 1 hour.. You don't really have to prep the holes surprisingly it really bonds solid to even smooth edges but, you can rough up the edges if you want with a rat tail file or something. Try to get it as flush to the surface as you can because that sh!t ain't no joke to sand! If you have a little recess or dips it's easier to add a little more after than it is to sand down a high spot by hand.
Quote from: J0K3RX on January 29, 2017, 02:17:55 PM
JB-Weld SteelStik.. easy to work with, sets in about 3 minutes, cures in about 1 hour.. You don't really have to prep the holes surprisingly it really bonds solid to even smooth edges but, you can rough up the edges if you want with a rat tail file or something. Try to get it as flush to the surface as you can because that sh!t ain't no joke to sand! If you have a little recess or dips it's easier to add a little more after than it is to sand down a high spot by hand.
Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out!
Quote from: EBK on January 29, 2017, 09:14:46 AM
Loctite makes really good adhesives in general, so I would bet their product is roughly equivalent, especially in this low temp application.
It turned out ok with normal epoxy, but it's not really the result I was looking for. It was a bit too soft which makes me very sceptical if the paint is going to last. It was also hard to sand it in a nice way. It was very hard to make it even because it was pretty rubbery and kind of came off in small chunks. It was definitely completely dry, but it might have been partially caused by bad mixing ratio.
I still think it might work, but for this pedal I don't want to risk it and I've got some time pressure, so I think I'll just use a lid from another enclosure. It's kind of sad, I know, but I'm using the cheap chinese stuff, not real hammond enclosures, so it's not too big of a deal. I'll order some J-B Weld product/products soon for future projects and keep the lid and maybe try the different fillers on it.
Edit: Don't take this as a "lesson" to never use normal epoxy to fill holes in an enclosure. As I said, my mixing ratio might have been bad and I just don't have time to try it out more. It might work perfectly if you just do it right.
Definitely didn't cure properly. Sorry that happened to you. Result should have been like super-hard plastic.
By the way, another tip for the sanding part (for next time, in your case): I found it useful to use a sharp chisel on the fully cured epoxy to get it close to level with the box surface prior to sanding.
Quote from: EBK on January 29, 2017, 05:46:43 PM
Definitely didn't cure properly. Sorry that happened to you. Result should have been like super-hard plastic.
By the way, another tip for the sanding part (for next time, in your case): I found it useful to use a sharp chisel on the fully cured epoxy to get it close to level with the box surface prior to sanding.
Great tip! I'll keep that in mind for the next time. I'll check on the old lid once in a while too and see if it hardens more, but I doubt it. I didn't measure the epoxy very well. I just added 3 "blobs" of each part and measuring it correctly is of course very important if you want a good result.
I'll keep experimenting with different products and the epoxy I already have so I can use it in the future. I'll also be more careful when drilling. ;)
You've been very helpful, Eric! Thank you! :)
Didn't notice anyone mentioning this but when sanding, back the paper with a hard flat block such as a chunk of wood.
dave
Quote from: davent on January 29, 2017, 06:17:21 PM
Didn't notice anyone mentioning this but when sanding, back the paper with a hard flat block such as a chunk of wood.
dave
Yes, that makes it a lot more even. :) Didn't really work this time though, because the epoxy was too soft.
Which grit on the sandpaper do you recommend by the way? I used very fine sandpaper this time and dry sanded it, but that left a lot of dust "inside" the epoxy and it was impossible to get rid of it all. But I'm guessing that won't be a problem if it cures properly.
JB Weld is Texas and distributes mostly to the US market.
Chemical Metal does seem to be a very similar product sold in the UK.
I like JB Weld and do think our UK friends should try some to compare to CM.
consumer 2-pack mixes like epoxies and car body fillers have a broad range of mixing ratio otherwise it would be very hard to get a good cure with anything like this - but they need to be thoroughly mixed (the 'real thing' requires accurate mixing by weight, and mixing/curing temperatures are much more stringent).
What sort of ambient temperatures are you experiencing? During curing, if you can get it up to 50C or so it will be beneficial.
How are you storing the epoxy and how old is it? refrigerating extends the shelf life but they do get old.
One of the nice things about JBWeld and similar is that the two parts are different colours and you can clearly see when they are well mixed, clear epoxy requires more attention.
Chemical Metal is advertised as a 'polyester' (which suggests it's more like car body filler than epoxy), but the MDS doesn't make it clear what type it is.
david
Quote from: greaser_au on January 30, 2017, 07:09:20 PM
consumer 2-pack mixes like epoxies and car body fillers have a broad range of mixing ratio otherwise it would be very hard to get a good cure with anything like this - but they need to be thoroughly mixed (the 'real thing' requires accurate mixing by weight, and mixing/curing temperatures are much more stringent).
What sort of ambient temperatures are you experiencing? During curing, if you can get it up to 50C or so it will be beneficial.
How are you storing the epoxy and how old is it? refrigerating extends the shelf life but they do get old.
One of the nice things about JBWeld and similar is that the two parts are different colours and you can clearly see when they are well mixed, clear epoxy requires more attention.
Chemical Metal is advertised as a 'polyester' (which suggests it's more like car body filler than epoxy), but the MDS doesn't make it clear what type it is.
david
50°C? Woops! ;) I did it in room temperature (about 20°C) and that's where I'm storing it too. I've only had it for a few weeks so I don't think it's old.
Quote from: xorophone on January 31, 2017, 07:36:25 AM
50°C? Woops! ;) I did it in room temperature (about 20°C) and that's where I'm storing it too. I've only had it for a few weeks so I don't think it's old.
Don't panic, It should cure ok at around 20°C (too much below that might not do very well), but it could take a while. Warming it up just a little bit (not so it's too hot to handle!) will speed up proper curing, especially for smaller amounts. One old trick when I was repairing PCBs was if one of the low-bake ovens (60°C) wasn't available, was to put the repair on a desk, and pull the (incandescent) desk light down over the repair - basically putting it almost inside the lampshade... not so useful in these days of CFLs and LEDs.
In any event, It might be worthwhile 'wasting' a little bit more (just make another small mix and leave it to cure) to make sure it's ok. Another comment I would make from experience, and this applies to any of the catalysed materials we've discussed on this thread, is that it is a LOT harder to estimate/balance the quantities correctly when making a very small mix.
Caution: *do not* heat and concentrate a larger mix of epoxy (say, 25cc (1 fl.oz.-ish) or more in a small cup) as the reaction is exothermic, and if made too warm the reaction heats itself quickly. It can get so hot it overcures itself, melts the cup it is in, and is a major risk of serious personal injury (true story about
embarrasingly stupid behaviour gaining experience with the material deleted here... :icon_redface:).
david
Not sure how well it would take paint, but I've found a reasonably-aesthetic and quick-and-easy way to fill misplaced holes is with sugru, e.g., http://amzn.to/2kOqxTW.
Quote from: greaser_au on January 31, 2017, 09:24:07 AM
Caution: *do not* heat and concentrate a larger mix of epoxy (say, 25cc (1 fl.oz.-ish) or more in a small cup) as the reaction is exothermic, and if made too warm the reaction heats itself quickly. It can get so hot it overcures itself, melts the cup it is in, and is a major risk of serious personal injury (true story about embarrasingly stupid behaviour gaining experience with the material deleted here... :icon_redface:).
david
Reminds me of the time my younger brother learned that it is not a good idea to open up a crap ton of bang snaps (pea-sized thin paper sacks of friction/pressure-sensitive-explosive-coated coarse sand) and pour the contents into great big pile in the back seat of his car. :icon_eek: Luckily, it's OK to laugh at that experiment.
if something's gonna be covered up by dark paint, i can recommend some stuff called "Power Putty" made by Unibond. it's similar to stuff the other guys have described, but it's not metallic. cure time is a matter of minutes.
strong? well, it's held one of the pivot posts in my Ibanez in place for years, so its strength is about 6 strings a half-step down.
Just used a scrap aluminum sheet and cover it as top
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: askwho69 on January 31, 2017, 09:25:39 PM
Just used a scrap aluminum sheet and cover it as top
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: MrStab on January 31, 2017, 08:22:29 PM
if something's gonna be covered up by dark paint, i can recommend some stuff called "Power Putty" made by Unibond. it's similar to stuff the other guys have described, but it's not metallic. cure time is a matter of minutes.
strong? well, it's held one of the pivot posts in my Ibanez in place for years, so its strength is about 6 strings a half-step down.
Quote from: Gentle Jack Jones on January 31, 2017, 01:53:07 PM
Not sure how well it would take paint, but I've found a reasonably-aesthetic and quick-and-easy way to fill misplaced holes is with sugru, e.g., http://amzn.to/2kOqxTW.
Thanks for the tips!
Quote from: EBK on January 31, 2017, 01:58:19 PM
Reminds me of the time my younger brother learned that it is not a good idea to open up a crap ton of bang snaps (pea-sized thin paper sacks of friction/pressure-sensitive-explosive-coated coarse sand) and pour the contents into great big pile in the back seat of his car. :icon_eek: Luckily, it's OK to laugh at that experiment.
Ah, I remember extracting the contents of those when I was younger. I wanted to make a really big one out of an entire package of them. ::) Never got it to work though. What a waste!
That also reminds me of the time my friend accidentally dropped a package worth of them in the middle of the city on the sidewalk, right in front of a bunch of people. Good times! ;D
Quote from: greaser_au on January 31, 2017, 09:24:07 AM
Quote from: xorophone on January 31, 2017, 07:36:25 AM
50°C? Woops! ;) I did it in room temperature (about 20°C) and that's where I'm storing it too. I've only had it for a few weeks so I don't think it's old.
Don't panic, It should cure ok at around 20°C (too much below that might not do very well), but it could take a while. Warming it up just a little bit (not so it's too hot to handle!) will speed up proper curing, especially for smaller amounts. One old trick when I was repairing PCBs was if one of the low-bake ovens (60°C) wasn't available, was to put the repair on a desk, and pull the (incandescent) desk light down over the repair - basically putting it almost inside the lampshade... not so useful in these days of CFLs and LEDs.
In any event, It might be worthwhile 'wasting' a little bit more (just make another small mix and leave it to cure) to make sure it's ok. Another comment I would make from experience, and this applies to any of the catalysed materials we've discussed on this thread, is that it is a LOT harder to estimate/balance the quantities correctly when making a very small mix.
Caution: *do not* heat and concentrate a larger mix of epoxy (say, 25cc (1 fl.oz.-ish) or more in a small cup) as the reaction is exothermic, and if made too warm the reaction heats itself quickly. It can get so hot it overcures itself, melts the cup it is in, and is a major risk of serious personal injury (true story about embarrasingly stupid behaviour gaining experience with the material deleted here... :icon_redface:).
david
Thanks for the explanation. I have a small desk light that gets incredibly hot. I should try using that! ;D
I really have to experiment a bit more with it before I attempt to use it seriously again. Haven't used the stuff many times.
If you have one hole, fill it with a photoresistive sensor and wire it in series with the LED. When there is a lot of light, the resistance goes down and the LED gets brighter. When it is dark, the resistance goes up and the LED gets darker. You may need series and parallel trimming and padding resistors to get the right range.
If the hole is near a control (like the anti-rotation tab on a pot), use a skirted knob to hide the hole.
Quote from: amptramp on February 01, 2017, 08:02:45 AM
If you have one hole, fill it with a photoresistive sensor and wire it in series with the LED. When there is a lot of light, the resistance goes down and the LED gets brighter. When it is dark, the resistance goes up and the LED gets darker. You may need series and parallel trimming and padding resistors to get the right range.
If the hole is near a control (like the anti-rotation tab on a pot), use a skirted knob to hide the hole.
Wow, that's a great idea! I might actually go and "accidentally" drill some holes now. ::) I really love that idea. Haven't thought about it before, but it's really smart and such a simple thing to do.
Thank you!