Hi comunity!
Which is for you guys the best buffer to improve a Fuzz Face?
I'm thinking to try with this one:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Z5azZdK51AU/UyX2WoDmn9I/AAAAAAAAGTA/RBeXL3brccY/s1600/MXR+108+Buffer.png)
I noticed that is almost the same (overal Classic 108, more or less) structure of the Oxblood distortion:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-H1Q_0nCfe90/UACPZWu0_YI/AAAAAAAABxA/oxO1U_jrS7k/s1600/hipkittyoxbloodscheme.png)
Or this one:
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ihkFVY8sluc/VVEWnDAWbgI/AAAAAAAAE08/4IAEe8vYj-8/s640/AMZ%2BSimple%2BJFET%2BBuffer.png)
Suggestions?
Experiences?
Thanks!
A fuzz face can be improved? ;)
You might listen to one with and without a buffer. Most believe the FF works best when it's looking at the output of the pickup directly.
I would try a jfet buffer first.
Isn't part of the magic of the fuzz face the loading effect it has on your pickups? Putting a buffer in front of a fuzz face and variants of it tend to make the effect fall apart.
As above well said..
A Fuzz Face with a buffer is no longer a Fuzz Face...!!
I know... I know... :-[
I'm killing all the magic, that why I'll put the buffer with a dpdt switch.
My idea is to make it more friendly when I use with buffered pedals; like the Boss ones.
Sometimes you just can't have everything at the front of the chain, can you?
I did put a booster, then the AMZ pickup simulator circuit, in front of the octave-up Scrambler. It worked very well, but my purpose was to get more octave out of it while not having to roll back my guitar's tone control.
A boss pedal in bypass is a active buffer. I don't think other buffers will sound much different, but try a boost+pickup sim before you commit to anything.
I know about Boss pedals, that's why I'm not trying to 'solve' anything out; just want to make an improvement, although it catches the nature of the beast.
It's a good one, actually, I'm using a LPB1 without boosting; and things works really good (as I commented in another thread about the 1k fuzz pot)
I'm a couple of parts shy of finishing my Lunar Module clone, but the the basis of that rather well regarded fuzz and its lower gain stable mate the Screwdriver is putting another stage in front of a silicon fuzz face topology, in part in order to make it behave anywhere in the signal chain. It's more than a buffer, but buffering is surely part of the purpose. Check that out. BTW, if I recall correctly there was some work done over at the "other" forum on modernizing the classic fuzz with buffering.
You could use a JFET buffer on a Fuzz Face if the gate resistor goes to ground. Replace this gate resistor with a potentiometer that you could name the "SUCKAGE" control. You could dial in the level of resistance you want to create the tone you want. The other possibility would be a noiseless bias voltage divider with the pot between the gate / base and the bias source. Either way, you get the advantages of adjustable tone sucking that gives you the ability to get the sound you want without changing pickups or matching tone between different guitars.
Ben, great idea, I'll check about that.
BTW: I have there a board for the Lunar Module. I've read that is a FF with some kind of booster, to recreates Gilmour fuzz sounds on DSOTM.
amptrap, that's a lot of mods!
Quote from: Plexi on February 21, 2017, 07:29:10 PM
amptrap, that's a lot of mods!
Not that much - in the schematic you posted of the Oxblood distortion, where you have R2 and R3, detach their junction from the rest of the circuitry and connect their junction to the base of Q1 through a 1 meg pot. You may have to raise the value of R3 and reduce the value of R2 and add an electrolytic capacitor from the junction to ground. In other words, add a pot and an electrolytic cap and change a couple of resistor values. Not that big a mod.
If you had a preamp stage like a Tillman, just replace the gate resistor with a 1 megohm pot. The advantage? You get whatever tone sucking response you want, controllable by one pot.
Have you checked the "schematics" link on top of the page?
http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/schematics.html (http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/schematics.html)
and http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/rocket.JPG (http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/rocket.JPG)
Did you search for "fuzz face buffer" etc?
also look for the 3 transistor fuzz
A buffer before the fuzz with an added resistor in series between or other network does not sound the same as a FF direct to guitar
Quote from: amptramp on February 21, 2017, 10:01:27 PM
Quote from: Plexi on February 21, 2017, 07:29:10 PM
amptrap, that's a lot of mods!
Not that much - in the schematic you posted of the Oxblood distortion, where you have R2 and R3, detach their junction from the rest of the circuitry and connect their junction to the base of Q1 through a 1 meg pot. You may have to raise the value of R3 and reduce the value of R2 and add an electrolytic capacitor from the junction to ground. In other words, add a pot and an electrolytic cap and change a couple of resistor values. Not that big a mod.
If you had a preamp stage like a Tillman, just replace the gate resistor with a 1 megohm pot. The advantage? You get whatever tone sucking response you want, controllable by one pot.
Now I get it!
Yes..! I have the echoplex preamp, and I forgot to say that they works wornderfull. The cons: they add a lot of mids.
I'll try both; or try the tillman preamp instead my echoplex preamp.
Thanks!
Quote from: Gus on February 22, 2017, 05:22:36 AM
Have you checked the "schematics" link on top of the page?
http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/schematics.html (http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/schematics.html)
and http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/rocket.JPG (http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/rocket.JPG)
Did you search for "fuzz face buffer" etc?
also look for the 3 transistor fuzz
A buffer before the fuzz with an added resistor in series between or other network does not sound the same as a FF direct to guitar
Thanks!
I didn't know about that section of the forum, I'll check both.
Yes, I'm thinking in build another FF and leave the classic one alone :D
to what amptramp says in reply #8
(http://www.runoffgroove.com/omega.png)
not exactly what you want, but the idea is there.
Apart from the tone-modifying options after the basic circuit, the Lovetone Big Cheese is essentially a Fuzz Face with a buffer up front. The Geofex Great Cheddar ( http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/grtchedrschm6.PDF ) is a clone of the Big Cheese.
(http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/LaceSensor1/Cheese%20Source/cheeseschem.png)
Build a Big Cheese recently, without the tone-control stuff.
For the purists, the inputbuffer can be bypassed with the flip of a switch.
+1 for a fuzz face with buffer. It just makes the thing come alive.
Without it,... it sounds ok, nice, doable.
Quote from: diydave on February 23, 2017, 03:01:34 AM
Build a Big Cheese recently, without the tone-control stuff.
For the purists, the inputbuffer can be bypassed with the flip of a switch.
+1 for a fuzz face with buffer. It just makes the thing come alive.
Without it,... it sounds ok, nice, doable.
heresy!!!!
:icon_mrgreen:
Biggest drawback of a buffer in front seems to be that it reduces the ability to clean up by turning down the guitar volume: Not really an issue if you only want to run it at maximum filth.
Quote from: nocentelli on February 23, 2017, 12:33:05 PM
Biggest drawback of a buffer in front seems to be that it reduces the ability to clean up by turning down the guitar volume: Not really an issue if you only want to run it at maximum filth.
Isn't the series resistance feeding the base of Q1 supposed to do some of that, or does it just soften the clipping?
Quote from: Mark Hammer on February 23, 2017, 08:12:57 PM
Quote from: nocentelli on February 23, 2017, 12:33:05 PM
Biggest drawback of a buffer in front seems to be that it reduces the ability to clean up by turning down the guitar volume: Not really an issue if you only want to run it at maximum filth.
Isn't the series resistance feeding the base of Q1 supposed to do some of that, or does it just soften the clipping?
It does, but the series resistance doesn't go up anymore when you turn the guitar volume down. The magical cleanup with an unbuffered FF is as much (or more) from the added series resistance as it is from the lowered signal voltage.
--
The crummy thing about a buffered FF isn't so-much getting the sound right -- a pickup sim and a copy of the guitar's tone/volume controls will get you 95% there -- it's that you have to bend-down to adjust a knob on your pedal, whereas an unbuffered FF lets you do that right on the guitar.
If you always play fuzz parts with the volume and tone in one particular spot, it's just as good. If you fiddle with the guitar volume while you're playing, a better solution would be to have a separate buffer with a pickup sim, and put a volume pedal directly between the buffer and the FF. If you want to go all-out, you could make an expression-pedal version of a guitar tone knob too.
Update
Messing around with my boosters, preamps, and buffers I discovered that the EQD Speaker Cranker, with "more" knob all the way down (gain in 0), is the best one as a "buffer" before the FF.
Doesn't change too much the tone and character; maybe with a bigger input cap in the SC get a more natural/darker response.
Why? I don't know.
(http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae154/chumbox/Wonderland%20Schematic_zpsct4yviko.png)
Buffers are circuits that have a gain of about 1 and have a controlled input and output impedance.
The EQD is a gain stage that I would add two more resistors. At min gain open loop of about X2 along with the interaction of the 2.2meg feedback bias resistor and what is in front of the circuit.
Look at the BMP circuits
There are a few ways to build input stages
The one in the Rocket 3 transistor (did you look at the links I posted? did you compare the hipkitty to the rocket? ) was made back when effect parts were harder to obtain so most parts of it were available at Radio Shack
The bias is offset from 1/2 because of Vbe drop and output drive (the transistor can turn on harder than the emitter resistor can pull it back down)
I don't like darlingtons at 9VDC as buffers there is a better two transistor compound pair with one Vbe drop vs the darlingtons two Vbe drop
The input resistance was selected by the voltage divider bias, beta , emitter resistor and following loading
I am not posting this is the best buffer it was something that I liked.
Now think about what is different between what you like and other circuits
A search at this forum and the web of your questions should get a number of links to read to help you understand how different gain stages interact with the guitar and cable
Thanks for your explanation Gus.
Yes, I saw every schematic...but patience please :)
I started 'read' schematics a few weeks ago, and english isn't my mother tongue.
Thanks again, and I'm analyzing each recommendation ;D
Would it be possible to build a buffered fuzz that reacts to the guitar's volume knob as the "real" fuzz face does?
Woulr require a circuit that "sees" the impedance change at its input and translates it to ann impedance change at its output. Can this be done?
Quote from: roseblood11 on June 02, 2017, 03:41:48 AM
Would it be possible to build a buffered fuzz that reacts to the guitar's volume knob as the "real" fuzz face does?
Woulr require a circuit that "sees" the impedance change at its input and translates it to ann impedance change at its output. Can this be done?
I've tried several, and it's sonically impossible to get the natural interaction.
The most "closer", but still far, is this simple one:
(http://www.muzique.com/images/buff2.gif)
Quote from: Plexi on June 02, 2017, 10:20:55 AM
Quote from: roseblood11 on June 02, 2017, 03:41:48 AM
Would it be possible to build a buffered fuzz that reacts to the guitar's volume knob as the "real" fuzz face does?
Woulr require a circuit that "sees" the impedance change at its input and translates it to ann impedance change at its output. Can this be done?
I've tried several, and it's sonically impossible to get the natural interaction.
The most "closer", but still far, is this simple one:
(http://www.muzique.com/images/buff2.gif)
A fuzz face does not really like a low source impedance, so a resistor in series with the output may be necessary. To get the tone sucking of a real fuzz face, just use a 1 meg pot in place of R1 so you can set the buffer input impedance wherever you want with the slider connected to ground. The control could be labelled "SUCKAGE". When you see that control it should automatically remind you of me.
Great... breaboarding that! ;)
EDIT: wrong schematic!
I've confused the link :icon_redface:
The one I've used is this one
(http://www.muzique.com/images/buff5.gif)
Another very very clean, but isn't a propperly "buffer", is the Big Muff recover stage.
Almost the same schematic of the LPB1, but with fixed output (390R to 2k7 resistor emiter-ground).
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yNTxz25WXJ4/Vc4mve6FuGI/AAAAAAAABYo/7MmpNDvjwe8/s400/Capture%2Bd%25E2%2580%2599e%25CC%2581cran%2B2015-08-14%2Ba%25CC%2580%2B19.34.56.png)
Why???
I really don't know... just an empirical coincidence
(https://media.giphy.com/media/13NUOwOLq0NJug/giphy.gif)
I've given this a lot of thought recently.
What I want to experiment with is having an optional buffer on a vintage fuzz circuit (like a FF or TB) with an active or passive bandpass filter (either fixed or adjustable somehow) to allow me to control the bass and treble response after the buffer and before the fuzz.
I'm coming at this from a bassist perspective but when I use a buffered pedal before a fuzz face there is simply too much bass and treble.
For an active approach I'm gonna experiment with the mid band from a state variable filter.
As a passive approach I think I'm just gonna try simple RC low pass and high pass filters in series between a few buffer stages.