Hello verybody.
I don't know how the thing I'm searching is called, but I see much of guys asking for it.
I want to build a looper effect with 3 loops (or more) where I can pass from a loop to another with just one click. A bit like some amp footswitches with 4 separetd channels, where we move through the channels pressing the respective footswitch.
I guess we can't do it using simply some footswitches.
So, I would like to build a 3-way looper to change the loop with one click. Does exist some project?
This could be done with a multiplexer. You could go with one that uses analog control, or one that uses digital control. If you really just want to select one of three loops, footswitches with a 3 to 1 (or more) multiplexer ought to work. I personally would do digital control with a multiplexer, but I am more comfortable with microcontrollers than I am with analog logic because I work with microcontrollers for my job and I've never really dug in to analog logic.
You want to move the input to 1 of 3 (or more) send and return loops, and cycle through them with one foot switch? Say, you're on loop 2 and you hit the foot switch and you're on loop 3, if you were to hit it again it would wrap around back to loop 1. That kind of thing? That's pretty easy to do with CMOS ICs. If that's what you're after I can post more info and schematics.
I don't know multiplexer, and for me could be impossibile work on digital, I guess.
Garcho, what I want is not exactly like you said, because I don't want to cycle. I want to select the loop pressing its footswitch. Imagine the footswitch of amp with a three separated channels. I want to select channel 1, or 2 or 3 pressing the footswitch 1, 2 or 3.
(https://i.imgur.com/TIT6MSU.jpg)
If Loop 1 is active and I want to pass to the Loop 3 I don't have to press Loop 1 and then press Loop 3, but I want press just Loop 3. Same thing with the other combinations.
It's tricky to explain this for me, but the operation should be very natural and intuitive. If you want just Loop 2 press Loop 2, you want just Loop 1 press Loop 1...
I've built a few of these using an Arduino Nano clone and some bistable relays. A bit of overkill but does the job with a low parts count.
I can't use arduino or programming. But I guess I can do something using relais and some special chip, but I dont' this kind of device, so I really don't know what I need.
> If you want just Loop 2 press Loop 2, you want just Loop 1 press Loop 1...
"Radio Button"
one kind (https://www.simplecircuitdiagram.com/2399-radio-buttons-using-push-on-switch-latching-circuit/)
Ok. I'm not sure about it, probably, I need more details.
Anyway, it has been reported to me this page:
https://sound-au.com/project163.htm
It could be better, but I guess this is just to start and I expect more than it. :icon_eek:
Check out this site, has a lot of looper information.
http://www.singlecoil.com/tb-strip/tbstrip.html
They sell loopers on this one
https://www.loop-master.com/
Thanks, but it's not the kind of switching method I am looking for. Those in in the links are very simple mechanical On/Off switching loopers. I built yet an ABY and ABCDE using just jacks, footswitches and LEDs.
Now I want something else (surely more complex), because I want to avoid to turn off and turn on the loops any time I want to pass from a loop to another. Just one click on one of the three (or four, in case) footswitches to active that loop and deactivate the other one.
Probably in my link in my early post there's something good for it. I'm searching something useful about those schematic.
I'm confident that if you can build a pedal with all analog, you could build one with something like an Arduino nano. There is so much support out there, and the arduino is super cheap. The schematic would be super simple, as would the code. With an Arduino nano clone, you could do probably around 8 loops this way. In fact, you could make something like the GigRig Quartermaster with probably $20-30 in materials. I know you can do it! There are probably several of us here that could help you.
Hi, E-B, I know exactly what you mean. Long, long ago, before these things were done with microcontrollers, there was something--an article, I think--for just this kind of thing, done with CMOS, IIRC. (The actual switching could also be done with CMOS--something like a 4053 or 4066--there is plenty of information around about how to do this--or with relays.) I think it was called a "1-of-n" switcher, or something like that. I recently looked for it, but couldn't find it in either of the two places I expected to, Geofex or hammer.ampage.org, or here and I don't even know if it's feasible any more because a lot of the cmos chips that used to do these things are obsolete and no longer made. But it was out there. Perhaps Mark or RG know where to direct you?
That said, Ripthorn is right--there is so much out there for Arduino (or other uC), and it can be done so much more easily that way that it is hardly worth your while chasing this unicorn.
Edit: Wait, someone else (Buffalo Tom) is chasing this very unicorn and getting somewhere: https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=123932.0 (https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=123932.0). Check it out.
Quote from: Ripthorn on March 09, 2020, 02:05:46 PM
I'm confident that if you can build a pedal with all analog, you could build one with something like an Arduino nano. There is so much support out there, and the arduino is super cheap. The schematic would be super simple, as would the code. With an Arduino nano clone, you could do probably around 8 loops this way. In fact, you could make something like the GigRig Quartermaster with probably $20-30 in materials. I know you can do it! There are probably several of us here that could help you.
I never look for arduino stuff, but «the GigRig Quartermaster with probably $20-30 in materials»! :icon_eek:
Ok, probably 3 or 4 loop it's ok for me.
Keeping in your mind I don't know what exactly is arduino, what exactly I need for it? What I should buy? I need some special hardware for my pc? Software?
Quote from: Ben N on March 09, 2020, 07:30:33 PM
Hi, E-B, I know exactly what you mean. Long, long ago, before these things were done with microcontrollers, there was something--an article, I think--for just this kind of thing, done with CMOS, IIRC. (The actual switching could also be done with CMOS--something like a 4053 or 4066--there is plenty of information around about how to do this--or with relays.) I think it was called a "1-of-n" switcher, or something like that. I recently looked for it, but couldn't find it in either of the two places I expected to, Geofex or hammer.ampage.org, or here and I don't even know if it's feasible any more because a lot of the cmos chips that used to do these things are obsolete and no longer made. But it was out there. Perhaps Mark or RG know where to direct you?
That said, Ripthorn is right--there is so much out there for Arduino (or other uC), and it can be done so much more easily that way that it is hardly worth your while chasing this unicorn.
Edit: Wait, someone else (Buffalo Tom) is chasing this very unicorn and getting somewhere: https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=123932.0 (https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=123932.0). Check it out.
I seen something on Geofex, and thanks for that thread link, I'll follow it, too.
Arduino..Good things to use. You need a computer (which you have as you can easily use this forum ), some software - an IDE (Integrated Development Environment ) downloadable from the Aduino people and a USB port. An Arduino UNO (compatible ) can be obtained off eBay for a very small amount of cash (which raises ethical issues ). Get a version that has a 16U2 and not a CH340 for the USB interface.
Generally someone has already written a program for what you want (or very close to what you want ). The programs are written in a version of C++ (I think ) which is VERY EASY to modify. I can fully understand any doubts that you may have and may be worried about your own abilities - don't worry about it and get one of these things. I have enough doubt with programming these things (I am a far superior assembly language programmer than I am at C++, but that is only laziness ), but I can still muddle through.
I use these things almost as commonly as people use 4558 OP amps or LM555 timers. But until 5 years ago I avoided them like the plague but I would use the PIC series of chips without any hesitation - assembler language confidence strikes again. Try the Arduino, you will not regret it.
I guess it's the right moment to reveal my real intention. :o
I thought that was a bit easier so I mentioned just a "looper" with that characteristic to simplify my explanation.
That thing I want is a that kind of looper, not with external pedals but with 3 or 4 inner circuits. I guess is the same thing, just without jacks but with the In and Out of the circuit directly connected to the loop. Right?
The project will be a kind of multi pedal: High Gain, Crunch and Overdrive will be the three loops. Then I have to decide if I need a fourth circuit for the "clean channel" or just a bypass.
Meanwhile:
- I have a computer (Windows 7! ::))
- IDE software: I think I found it (still not downloaded), but I guess I can donwload it when I want. Is it freeware, right? ;D
- Arduino UNO... I'm not so sure which model. I seen some with different componts on it. Anyway, if I read something 16U2 it's ok?
- Programming. It's very important I have to find the right code, else that will be just useless hardware.
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=102786.msg1151280#msg1151280
(https://postimg.cc/YjyzSKW6)
Is it so simple? :o
I don't know where are going those three rectangular (resistors, probably).
I need send and return for every loop, at least three or four.
Quote from: Elijah-Baley on March 10, 2020, 07:38:50 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfQJpQGz/Footsw-itch-Controller3.png)
Is it so simple? :o
I don't know where are going those three rectangular (resistors, probably).
They go to whatever you need to control, e.g. transistors that control relays.
I got it.
Those switches are just momentary footswitches. I thought those was the relays! ::)
So, I still need the relays switching system.
I'm looking to the arduino, too. I thought was very complex, but maybe is something I could do it. Just with some help. :)
Thanks, E-B, for pursuing this, and thanks Merlin, for the link to that thread. I'm pretty sure that RG's Multi-Vol article, with momentary switches through a 74C373 (now pretty much unobtanium), is where I saw the switching I referred to earlier. As I said before, this is pretty archaic in the era of micro-controllers, but still pretty cool I think. Note RG's comment back in 2013: "But I would not do that any more. It is cheaper to buy a $0.50 PIC microcontroller and have it do the job reliably and right. I know that's a disappointing answer to those of you who are looking for a "... and just hook it up with some diodes and caps, and it works" answer, but it's accurate. It's actually cheaper and simpler once you're over the programming hump." It that was true seven years ago...
I guess I have to try arduino.
If you know something I have to look about my project tell me.
I know I need an arduino. Ripthorn suggested me arduino nano, Slowpoke101 suggested me arduino UNO.
What other parts I need? I think Footswitch SPDT momentary.
Then, a ready relays PCB, but I can't say what kind I need.
I have to take on count the current draw, I fear for relays.
Get yourself a starter kit, and play around with it, get to know what it can do generally. Then find some code that works or is adaptable for your project (shouldn't be too hard), breadboard the hardware and write and test the code. Once you have it working that way, then you can think about how to implement the hardware for real.
Arduino Nano plus a relay module large enough for your needs 4way? 8way?. e.g.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-4-6-8-16Channel-Relay-Board-Module-Optocoupler-LED-5V-fr-Arduino-PIC-ARM-AVR/282571011217?hash=item41ca8b7491:m:mTb5fR4rzGtySZqzitoIa3g
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WccAAOSw~atb9P9g/s-l1600.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/QbIV9HmtqUHhD0ELiJK4kZmOly9TQkn4hYjdgSdqqhInyQHwADYPS3R6eTzwKPaNG53KzVZ2nkZ8Q6I15I-AERTHugnLBTxziHACUFyacivId3AxDQlXVv-jiA)
If what you are planning is an always on device (i.e. never bypassed), I would suggest forgoing the relays and going with CMOS switching, like a 4066 ($0.28 at Tayda) or 4053 ($0.31). The relays make more sense IMHO for a looper.
Thanks Ben. ;)
What kit are you thinking about?
CMOS could be ok, too. But doesn't it need relays, too? Anyway, I have to understand what I can use precisely: schematic, PCB or stripboard layout, made by me (am I so good? ???) or found it somewhere (if there's any). I know some schematic, but I'm still confused.
My bigger difficult is to get, indeed, decide what schematics to use, what hardware, what PSU I need, what is the space I need.
I assume the box will be rather big because the 4 circuits and the space between the footswitches, but I think all the switching boards need a big space.
Thanks merlinb. :)
4way is enough, into the pedal there will be: 1) clean preamp, 2) overdrive, 3) crunch, 4) high gain. I decided four. So a four relays PCB shoudl be ok good.
Kit?
I meant the switching itself. If you run a buffer into the inputs of your four preamps, a single 4066 would give you four switches to select your output, controlled by Merlin's circuit. No relays required, although you might need a little bit of extra circuitry to make the CMOS switches behave well with audio signals. Read RG's http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/cd4053/cd4053.htm (http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/cd4053/cd4053.htm).
Here is how I would do it:
- Windows 7 PC, download the Arduino IDE
- Go to Ebay or Aliexpress and get an Arduino nano (less than half the size of the UNO). Can be had for about $2 USD each. I use the ones with CH340 chips with no problem, though you do have to download a driver for it (I have it somewhere and can send it along via email or something)
- Depending on how you implement it, I would actually use DPDT relays that do NOT latch. This will draw more power, but if you are using a wall power supply with analog dirt circuits, that shouldn't be an issue. The benefit of this is that you can connect the LED's directly to the I/O pin that feeds the relay, thus, if the relay is on, the LED will be on. On DPDT relay per circuit. I have a particular model that I personally like and have used multiple times, let me see if I can dig up a part number.
- One BJT per relay, along with one diode (1N4148 is fine), along with a couple resistors. I have some schematics from a related but slightly different project I did last year that I will see what I can dig up.
- The code. This is where you will need to do some learning, but at the same time, I have code that could be easily modified to exactly what you want, including the option of exclusivity switches like on the GigRig Quartermaster. It really is pretty straightforward if you have ever coded something before. If not, that's ok, we can help. I don't have time to sit and hash something out for the next couple days, but I will try to do so, as I have been thinking about doing something like this for a while, and it would make a fun project.
A couple of items to note:
1. The enclosure and relays will be the most expensive part of this whole project, with the relays being about $2 USD/ea and the enclosure being ~$10 (assuming a larger enclosure).
2. The loops will be in a fixed order. Making the loop order switchable is a more complex problem and requires a relatively expensive surface mount IC.
3. The wiring is going to be interesting. See my 5 loop, MIDI-controllable switcher here: https://scientificguitarist.wixsite.com/home/mls-5 (https://scientificguitarist.wixsite.com/home/mls-5) for some inspiration. I made it so that any combination of loops can be used, though adding exclusivity switches ought to be pretty simple. Use smaller gauge wire for all the non-audio signals, as you will just be using 5V to signal when things should switch and to activate the relays.