Happy Sunday everyone!
So...I've spent the entire weekend basically destroying enclosures trying to paint them. ;D
I sanded, primed and now have coated (my 5th attempt) with 4-5 layers of Enamel spray paint and let dry overnight and I think I finally got one to look somewhat decent (Although the water slide decal is still somewhat visible)
I am now getting ready to clear coat using a "Gloss Crystal Clear" spray enamel this morning. I've read pretty much every thread on the interweb concerning the topic but am still hesitant to apply the finishing touches. I don't want to mess this up! :o
What's your fail safe method to ensure best cure/protective coating?
I'm considering finding a toaster oven, Is baking the best way to go?
What is next?
(https://i.postimg.cc/47txwcmQ/IMG-0009.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47txwcmQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qtTbzV2B/IMG-0013.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qtTbzV2B)
Never used enamel paint myself so can't really comment on that, but generally speaking using a toaster oven does greatly speed up cure times. Things to watch out for would be the enamel not being fully cured when you put the clear on. It's been a while since i painted enclosures, i lost patience and got a powder coater.
I think Davent is the enamel paint pro from memory, i'm sure i remember reading a tutorial of sorts that he did.
The other plus for a toaster oven is that if you want to upgrade to a powder coating set up you'll need one anyway.
Quote from: DJPsychic on April 26, 2020, 08:58:41 AM
What is next?
Scrape off the lips of the holes (vertical enclosure width) and flatten them out with a sandpaper in case you use "bare" metal jacks..
(thread/nut in cintact with sleeve..)
Quote from: patrick398 on April 26, 2020, 09:26:43 AM
Never used enamel paint myself so can't really comment on that, but generally speaking using a toaster oven does greatly speed up cure times. Things to watch out for would be the enamel not being fully cured when you put the clear on. It's been a while since i painted enclosures, i lost patience and got a powder coater.
I think Davent is the enamel paint pro from memory, i'm sure i remember reading a tutorial of sorts that he did.
The other plus for a toaster oven is that if you want to upgrade to a powder coating set up you'll need one anyway.
Yes, this is definitely not effective use of time, might be my last painted pedal ;D
Quote from: antonis on April 26, 2020, 10:07:29 AM
Quote from: DJPsychic on April 26, 2020, 08:58:41 AM
What is next?
Scrape off the lips of the holes (vertical enclosure width) and flatten them out with a sandpaper in case you use "bare" metal jacks..
(thread/nut in cintact with sleeve..)
Yes, I'm going to clean it up for sure. My question was more so what's the best next step when clear coating. My plan was to just apply a few light coats and let it sit for a few days. But I've read sometimes it can take months for the clear coat to fully cure.
i want to make sure I do it right, so I don't have to do it ever again ;D
Since you are using enamel over enamel, it should be OK. You can spray enamel over lacquer but you cannot spray lacquer over enamel because the solvents in the lacquer will cause crazing of the enamel underneath caused by the more active solvents in lacquer.
The reaction time is cut in half for every 10 degree C rise in temperature so as long as you stay below temperatures that can damage the paint, a toaster over in a good idea. It also reduces the humidity of the paint and the surface.
Quote from: amptramp on April 26, 2020, 10:34:12 AM
Since you are using enamel over enamel, it should be OK. You can spray enamel over lacquer but you cannot spray lacquer over enamel because the solvents in the lacquer will cause crazing of the enamel underneath caused by the more active solvents in lacquer.
The reaction time is cut in half for every 10 degree C rise in temperature so as long as you stay below temperatures that can damage the paint, a toaster over in a good idea. It also reduces the humidity of the paint and the surface.
Ok. I've read somewhere between 90-200 degree F, although I'd probably stay around 90-100.
Do you bake in between coats, Or should I just give a few good coats then bake?
And how long typically?
Some toaster ovens have a lower limit of 150°F so be sure you can actually set the temperature where you want it. Larger ovens offer better uniformity of temperature. I got mine at a garage sale for $5 but I haven't used it yet and garage sales seem to be forbidden this year.
There are usually instructions on the can about when you can apply a coating, usually expressed as within an hour after the last coat or after 48 hours after the last coat. Heating the enclosure may reduce the two days limit but it also reduces the one hour time, which is unnecessary.
The can will usually give a dry-to-the-touch time, a time you can handle it and a fully hardened time. With the last paint I used, it was 20 minute touch time, 1 hour handling time and 24 hour full hardness time and a 5 - 7 day maximum adhesion time on plastic (all times given here were for Rustoleum Painter's Touch 2X Ultra Cover primer plus paint which I used on wood).
Quote from: patrick398 on April 26, 2020, 09:26:43 AM
Never used enamel paint myself so can't really comment on that, but generally speaking using a toaster oven does greatly speed up cure times. Things to watch out for would be the enamel not being fully cured when you put the clear on. It's been a while since i painted enclosures, i lost patience and got a powder coater.
I think Davent is the enamel paint pro from memory, i'm sure i remember reading a tutorial of sorts that he did.
The other plus for a toaster oven is that if you want to upgrade to a powder coating set up you'll need one anyway.
I'm the waterborne artist's acrylic guy with airbrushes.
I'm afraid enamels, spray cans and toaster ovens are a foreign language for me but i'm always interested in options.
dave
Quote from: davent on April 26, 2020, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: patrick398 on April 26, 2020, 09:26:43 AM
Never used enamel paint myself so can't really comment on that, but generally speaking using a toaster oven does greatly speed up cure times. Things to watch out for would be the enamel not being fully cured when you put the clear on. It's been a while since i painted enclosures, i lost patience and got a powder coater.
I think Davent is the enamel paint pro from memory, i'm sure i remember reading a tutorial of sorts that he did.
The other plus for a toaster oven is that if you want to upgrade to a powder coating set up you'll need one anyway.
I'm the waterborne artist's acrylic guy with airbrushes.
I'm afraid enamels, spray cans and toaster ovens are a foreign language for me but i'm always interested in options.
dave
If you're acrylic guy, who the hell is enamel guy? Clearly i've been breathing in too much of this shit
Does everyone really cure their boxes that low? I always did 15 minutes at 300 fahrenheit and it always went well.
Quote from: vigilante397 on April 26, 2020, 12:27:20 PM
Does everyone really cure their boxes that low? I always did 15 minutes at 300 fahrenheit and it always went well.
Most people go with the "slow and low" from what I've read, but I'm no expert.
Do you bake in between coats? And what kind of paint are you using?
I always bake between coats (though for most things I only do one coat). Rustoleum rattle cans have always been my go-to, though admittedly it's been a month or two as I've recently gotten into powder coating :P
Quote from: vigilante397 on April 26, 2020, 01:23:38 PM
I always bake between coats (though for most things I only do one coat). Rustoleum rattle cans have always been my go-to, though admittedly it's been a month or two as I've recently gotten into powder coating :P
ya after this adventure might be just leaving my enclosures bare metal ;)
Do you bake after every clear layer?
Quote from: DJPsychic on April 26, 2020, 01:35:24 PM
Do you bake after every clear layer?
Absolutely. Let every coat fully cure before adding another.
Quote from: vigilante397 on April 26, 2020, 01:36:46 PM
Quote from: DJPsychic on April 26, 2020, 01:35:24 PM
Do you bake after every clear layer?
Absolutely. Let every coat fully cure before adding another.
Right on. Any chance you'd share a pic of one of your pedals?
Sure, here are a couple I have laying around that are spray painted and lacquered. I think the black one there was the very last box I used spray paint and lacquer instead of powder coat.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JtTmRXKT/IMG-20200426-131147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtTmRXKT)
:icon_smile:
Quote from: vigilante397 on April 26, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
Sure, here are a couple I have laying around that are spray painted and lacquered. I think the black one there was the very last box I used spray paint and lacquer instead of powder coat.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JtTmRXKT/IMG-20200426-131147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtTmRXKT)
:icon_smile:
Very nice thanks for sharing!
So you're using lacquer? Maybe that's why the high temps don't effect your finish negatively.
I'll be using enamel clear coat. I'll just have to make a couple test runs.
*Btw found a free toaster oven off Facebook :)
Quote from: DJPsychic on April 26, 2020, 05:06:51 PM
Quote from: vigilante397 on April 26, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
Sure, here are a couple I have laying around that are spray painted and lacquered. I think the black one there was the very last box I used spray paint and lacquer instead of powder coat.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JtTmRXKT/IMG-20200426-131147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtTmRXKT)
:icon_smile:
Very nice thanks for sharing!
So you're using lacquer? Maybe that's why the high temps don't effect your finish negatively.
I'll be using enamel clear coat. I'll just have to make a couple test runs.
*Btw found a free toaster oven off Facebook :)
I think the negative effects from high temperatures are going to effect your decals badly, not your finish or clear coat. As far as i'm aware, Nathan's pedals are painted and then the graphics are laser engraved, no decals.
I agree, going to do a couple Thin layers of clear coat, bake at low temp, see what happens.
I've only used enamel paint once. Otherwise I'm using acrylic from spray cans, so my advice might be moot. But if you're saying you got everything done within a day, then I'd be concerned it's not actually dry and you'll be sealing in wet paint. The oven may help with this.
Not sure what you mean by "good coat". I hope you mean "gossamer-thin", and not "substantial". Thin coats dry quickly. Thick coats dry never.
Anyway, it looks good thus far, so good luck!
Quote from: bluebunny on April 27, 2020, 04:40:20 AM
I've only used enamel paint once. Otherwise I'm using acrylic from spray cans, so my advice might be moot. But if you're saying you got everything done within a day, then I'd be concerned it's not actually dry and you'll be sealing in wet paint. The oven may help with this.
Not sure what you mean by "good coat". I hope you mean "gossamer-thin", and not "substantial". Thin coats dry quickly. Thick coats dry never.
Anyway, it looks good thus far, so good luck!
I don't think I said "good coat" but could be wrong.
I painted the enclosure Saturday, today is Monday so should be ok?
Going to apply two thin coats of clear and bake. Then maybe repeat.
My only fear is ruing the decal. Guess we'll find out!
??? I thought I was going mad! . . . Reply #6... But re-reading, it sounds like you should have something that's gonna be properly dry. In which case, the clear coat should be fine. The decal should be fine with the clear coat, so long as that's nice and thin too. Can't say about the baking, though.
I sprayed 2 light coats of clear baked it. Then a few more and baked again. Clear seems to set alright, but can't get rid of sticker lines.
I'll just go back to bare metal enclosures. This has become a 4 day project ;D
The sticker lines won't disappear until you've applied enough clear coats that you can wet sand the face level without sanding through the clear and hitting the decal.
dave
i've had some hard times getting enamel paints to work for me, so i just stopped using it.
i have had great success with MOLOTOV graffiti canisters to paint enclosures, also used wall paints and clear wood lacquer which worked out quite well.
but hounestly, mostly let my enclosures stay the original colours/design to save on cost and most candy tins look quite good and i don't mind advertising for my favourite candy brand, SKY Candy
(https://i.postimg.cc/K4bD2mh2/61z-Uk-Xm-zt-L.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K4bD2mh2)
cheers,
Iain
Quote from: DJPsychic on April 27, 2020, 02:09:31 PM
Clear seems to set alright, but can't get rid of sticker lines.
I'm having trouble trying to see where your decal is in your first two pictures (i.e. how far it extends). I can't work out if you have a whole face decal, or just the "Soul Fuzz" legend at the bottom. Hint: if you go for a whole face design and size it so that the edges are just where the top of the enclosure starts to curve away to the sides, then those edges will be all but impossible to spot under a couple of coats of clear (and you'll only need a couple of coats).
After about 8 clear coats, still couldn't get flush to decal. For my purposes, the time and the effort (and the fumes) are definitely not worth it.
I may still paint and then ink stamp like Analogman, or just continue doing what I have been doing...ink stamp on a bare aluminum enclosure. It fits my aesthetic anyhoo
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pp6VHD1r/IMG-0311.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pp6VHD1r)
I support your decision either way, as you get excellent results with ink stamps 8)
Quote from: vigilante397 on April 28, 2020, 11:32:02 AM
I support your decision either way, as you get excellent results with ink stamps 8)
Lol thanks for you support!! ;D
Quote from: DJPsychic on April 28, 2020, 10:15:54 AM
After about 8 clear coats, still couldn't get flush to decal. For my purposes, the time and the effort (and the fumes) are definitely not worth it.
I may still paint and then ink stamp like Analogman, or just continue doing what I have been doing...ink stamp on a bare aluminum enclosure. It fits my aesthetic anyhoo
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pp6VHD1r/IMG-0311.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pp6VHD1r)
I had a pedal with decals and was using an airbrush to clear coat lacquer , applies very thin coats, took over 60 coats, i'm only mildly crazy. I don't use decals any more.
Have you considered Envirotex or other resin type thick coating?
Your ink stamp pedal great, i suppose the limitation is what's available in stamps or are you set up to create your own stamps?
dave
Quote from: davent on April 28, 2020, 12:03:25 PM
Have you considered Envirotex or other resin type thick coating?
Doesn't Cloudscapes on here use Envirotex? I love the look of those thick finishes.
Thank you. I order them through Rubberchampstamp.com
I design the graphic and upload through their site. The stamp pictured is Obviously not my original artwork. Although I did have to do a little editing to Make it usable for Stamp
.
Apparently the laser engraver I use (Chinese K40) was originally designed for the purpose of making rubber stamps. I haven't tried it, but I may have to give it a go. What kind of ink are you using? Do you need to put lacquer or anything over the top to protect it?
Quote from: vigilante397 on April 28, 2020, 01:02:28 PM
Doesn't Cloudscapes on here use Envirotex? I love the look of those thick finishes.
I think John Danna did some Envirotexing a few years ago (hmmm... haven't see John around in a while - hope he's OK). I bought a pack on his recommendation. Ashamed to say it's still unused. :icon_redface:
This pedal/Envirotex tutorial has been around for quite a few years.
http://80.229.1.38/stompage/finishing.html
dave
Quote from: vigilante397 on April 28, 2020, 02:23:52 PM
Apparently the laser engraver I use (Chinese K40) was originally designed for the purpose of making rubber stamps. I haven't tried it, but I may have to give it a go. What kind of ink are you using? Do you need to put lacquer or anything over the top to protect it?
Interesting. We have a laser machine at work I'll have to try that if We ever open again.
And I use Stayzon ink, no protective coating.
It's not pretty but it will work 8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JtRQnfhq/B6-C669-CF-637-D-4-A55-9-BAC-36409-CF8-D2-D1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtRQnfhq)
A decal directly on the enclosure? Did you clear coat the enclosure before applying the decal?
dave
Quote from: davent on April 30, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
A decal directly on the enclosure? Did you clear coat the enclosure before applying the decal?
dave
I ordered an ink stamp
And it only took me about 6 combined man hours to get a usable mark! :o
No clear. Bare metal with stayzon ink.
Analog Mike is quoted somewhere on here saying how much work it Is to get a consistent marking, he's not kidding.
Still trying to find the best option if I ever decide to make more of these. But for personal use the stamps seem to hold up pretty good.