So I built a green Russian big muff and only the input boost stage is working, like the pedal is only working as a clean boost and kinda a low end boost, with a tad extra fuzz. And I did some probing and can't find the issue, I might be blind and it could just be a missing component tho lol.
The bypass is working perfectly as well.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NKpFnHnr/20210621-100408.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKpFnHnr)
(https://i.postimg.cc/2b4fsp5X/20210621-100410.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2b4fsp5X)
(https://i.postimg.cc/T5JfD8MW/20210621-100413.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T5JfD8MW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PvXrKfMM/20210621-100417.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvXrKfMM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/k2zG9mnn/20210621-100419.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2zG9mnn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/s1YV8WQD/20210621-100421.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1YV8WQD)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TLmRTLt0/20210621-100424.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TLmRTLt0)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bZJpsF6s/20210621-100528.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bZJpsF6s)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gnGYP08y/20210621-100531.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gnGYP08y)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BtkxhdFG/20210621-100533.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtkxhdFG)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dDr1YXXF/20210621-100537.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDr1YXXF)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cKLg1m3m/20210621-100545.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKLg1m3m)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fkfVdpvK/20210621-100555.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkfVdpvK)
and heres the layout im using:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c6gD47M0/EHX-Green-Russian-Big-Muff-V7-1994-1.png) (https://postimg.cc/c6gD47M0)
Post the voltages of each of the pins of the semiconductors. Make sure your multimeter's black probe is on the circuit's ground and use the red to measure each pin.
Fill this out;
Q1:
E -
B -
C -
Q2:
E -
B -
C -
Q3:
E -
B -
C -
Q4:
E -
B -
C -
Your soldering is getting better! Maybe next time get the iron a little more hot and use solder with more flux so it flows easier and acts less sticky.
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on June 22, 2021, 08:49:02 AM
Post the voltages of each of the pins of the semiconductors. Make sure your multimeter's black probe is on the circuit's ground and use the red to measure each pin.
Fill this out;
Q1:
E -
B -
C -
Q2:
E -
B -
C -
Q3:
E -
B -
C -
Q4:
E -
B -
C -
Your soldering is getting better! Maybe next time get the iron a little more hot and use solder with more flux so it flows easier and acts less sticky.
Q1:
E - .1
B - .7
C - 4.3
Q2:
E - .1
B - .7
C - 4.3
Q3:
E - .1
B - .7
C - 4.2
Q4:
E - .9
B - switched between 1.3 & 1.9
C - 4.1
Voltages are about right. Though Q4 is questionable.
These suspicious sections may have something to do with it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWnR1x9p/bf-debug.png) (https://postimg.cc/ZWnR1x9p)
I had to rotate and mirror your image to compare to the layout. Doing this is good practice with any vero or strip board project. Now it's just rotated 180.
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on June 23, 2021, 08:27:42 AM
Voltages are about right. Though Q4 is questionable.
These suspicious sections may have something to do with it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWnR1x9p/bf-debug.png) (https://postimg.cc/ZWnR1x9p)
I had to rotate and mirror your image to compare to the layout. Doing this is good practice with any vero or strip board project. Now it's just rotated 180.
i fixed that and plugged it in, and now i get a more of a mid boost in addition to the volume and bass boost.
and i should note that im using a 3n3 mylar instead of a 3n9 mylar.
Quote from: snow123 on June 23, 2021, 02:37:14 PM
i fixed that and plugged it in and got nothing, not even a clean signal now.
No refund lol
I'm sure it has nothing to do with that monstrosity of a rat's nest :icon_rolleyes:
You really shouldn't solder wires like that, even in a pinch. Asking for trouble.
Clean it up and see what happens.
Quote from: snow123 on June 23, 2021, 03:12:30 PM
and i should note that im using a 3n3 mylar instead of a 3n9 mylar.
That wouldn't make much of a difference for this build. Once it's operating correctly you can add a capacitor in parallel with the 3.3nF to get closer to the stock value. A 470pF or 680pF would be appropriate (3.3nF + .68nF = 3.98nF). But again, isn't much of a deal.
i realized i had the in/out jacks reversed when i wrote that i didnt get a clean sig at all, i just edited the comment to say what actually happens lol.
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on June 23, 2021, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: snow123 on June 23, 2021, 02:37:14 PM
i fixed that and plugged it in and got nothing, not even a clean signal now.
No refund lol
I'm sure it has nothing to do with that monstrosity of a rat's nest :icon_rolleyes:
You really shouldn't solder wires like that, even in a pinch. Asking for trouble.
Clean it up and see what happens.
Quote from: snow123 on June 23, 2021, 03:12:30 PM
and i should note that im using a 3n3 mylar instead of a 3n9 mylar.
That wouldn't make much of a difference for this build. Once it's operating correctly you can add a capacitor in parallel with the 3.3nF to get closer to the stock value. A 470pF or 680pF would be appropriate (3.3nF + .68nF = 3.98nF). But again, isn't much of a deal.
i am gonna clean up the wiring tho
i cleaned up the wiring and its still not working
An improvement nonetheless, I'm sure.
I'm looking at the photo I sent back in my previous post. You've very likely got more shorts between other tracks. I can clearly see them - though very small. Why wouldn't you?
It's on you to find them. Your meter has a continuity function that'll beep when there's a short. Use it!!
Electrosmash is a great site for understanding circuits. Check out this schematic;
(https://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/bmp/big-muff-pi-v3-circuit-stages.png)
So right now your problem is lack of distortion, right?
It wouldn't be the input booster.
It wouldn't be the tone stage
It wouldn't be the output booster.
Now you :D
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on June 25, 2021, 08:24:59 AM
An improvement nonetheless, I'm sure.
I'm looking at the photo I sent back in my previous post. You've very likely got more shorts between other tracks. I can clearly see them - though very small. Why wouldn't you?
It's on you to find them. Your meter has a continuity function that'll beep when there's a short. Use it!!
Electrosmash is a great site for understanding circuits. Check out this schematic;
(https://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/bmp/big-muff-pi-v3-circuit-stages.png)
So right now your problem is lack of distortion, right?
It wouldn't be the input booster.
It wouldn't be the tone stage
It wouldn't be the output booster.
Now you :D
ok, ive replaced some caps and stuff and now i just have a little more fuzz, it basically sounds kinda like the "you really got me" guitar tone but with a super low gain big muff i guess.
Now that you've swapped parts for no reason what about the shorts?
Sounds like you may have fixed one of the two clipping stages.
You could try audio probing it too. The Muff circuit breaks up neatly into the separate sections, with each one separated from the next with a DC-blocking cap, except for the tone control. So test:
C5 - Buffer output
C13 - Fuzz stage 1 output
Q2 collector - Fuzz stage 2 output
C3 - Tone stage output
If all those are working, the state of the output tells you if the output booster is working.
This should narrow the search down a bit.
Quote from: ElectricDruid on June 28, 2021, 02:05:50 PM
You could try audio probing it too. The Muff circuit breaks up neatly into the separate sections, with each one separated from the next with a DC-blocking cap, except for the tone control. So test:
C5 - Buffer output
C13 - Fuzz stage 1 output
Q2 collector - Fuzz stage 2 output
C3 - Tone stage output
If all those are working, the state of the output tells you if the output booster is working.
This should narrow the search down a bit.
theres very low volume on the output of the clipping stage
Audio probes are great for debugging I find. You've identified the problem area, so check all component values and connections around there. Something will reveal itself to you eventually, dont give up.
Also, a problem that I had with a build I was recently debugging was that the copper traces of the board were breaking at points where off-board wires were connected due to me I having to get underneath the board multiple times to check stuff. Make sure to check this on your build as you continue to debug
well the collector of q3 is fine but when i probe the base (which is the output of the clipping stage) i get a much quieter signal.
Quote from: snow123 on June 29, 2021, 10:35:40 PM
well the collector of q3 is fine but when i probe the base (which is the output of the clipping stage) i get a much quieter signal.
Output of Q3 clipping stage IS Q3 Collector..!!
Quote from: snow123 on June 29, 2021, 10:35:40 PM
well the collector of q3 is fine but when i probe the base (which is the output of the clipping stage) i get a much quieter signal.
Ok, so if Q3 collector is ok, it looks like the first fuzz stage is good. What about Q2 collector? Does the second stage work too?
Quote from: ElectricDruid on June 30, 2021, 06:27:51 AM
Quote from: snow123 on June 29, 2021, 10:35:40 PM
well the collector of q3 is fine but when i probe the base (which is the output of the clipping stage) i get a much quieter signal.
Ok, so if Q3 collector is ok, it looks like the first fuzz stage is good. What about Q2 collector? Does the second stage work too?
btw, im using the layouts part nunbers, so you asked me if the 2nd stage works, when i already verified that it does work, lol.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XrRWjnpM/Inked-EHX-Green-Russian-Big-Muff-V7-1994-LI.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrRWjnpM)
I praise the patience of others.
Why are you looking for excuses to bypass reasonable advice? Find out what they meant rather than drawing up an argument. ElectricDruid was referring to the schematic and referenced "Q2" and "second fuzz stage" which is the 2nd clipping amplifier or "stage 3" in your own interpretation.
For the love of god check for shorts with the continuity setting on the meter like I had told you before.
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 01, 2021, 08:32:24 AM
ElectricDruid was referring to the schematic and referenced "Q2" and "second fuzz stage" which is the 2nd clipping amplifier or "stage 3" in your own interpretation.
That's right, I was referring to the schematic.
Ok, So now we've got the terminology sorted out, does Stage 3 work? What can you hear on the collector of that transistor?
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 01, 2021, 08:55:53 AM
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 01, 2021, 08:32:24 AM
ElectricDruid was referring to the schematic and referenced "Q2" and "second fuzz stage" which is the 2nd clipping amplifier or "stage 3" in your own interpretation.
That's right, I was referring to the schematic.
Ok, So now we've got the terminology sorted out, does Stage 3 work? What can you hear on the collector of that transistor?
im getting a relatively low volume signal with no fuzz or anything on the collector on q3.
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 01, 2021, 08:32:24 AM
I praise the patience of others.
Why are you looking for excuses to bypass reasonable advice? Find out what they meant rather than drawing up an argument. ElectricDruid was referring to the schematic and referenced "Q2" and "second fuzz stage" which is the 2nd clipping amplifier or "stage 3" in your own interpretation.
For the love of god check for shorts with the continuity setting on the meter like I had told you before.
i didnt use the DMM, but i did drag a flat head screwdriver in between the tracks and it didnt catch on anything.
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 01:47:38 PM
i didnt use the DMM, but i did drag a flat head screwdriver in between the tracks and it didnt catch on anything.
That flathead screwdriver must be more reliable than an electronics tool that you so happen to own. Man, I should invest in a flathead screwdriver. Wouldn't life be more simple with a flathead screwdriver!!!
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 01, 2021, 02:35:45 PM
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 01:47:38 PM
i didnt use the DMM, but i did drag a flat head screwdriver in between the tracks and it didnt catch on anything.
That flathead screwdriver must be more reliable than an electronics tool that you so happen to own. Man, I should invest in a flathead screwdriver. Wouldn't life be more simple with a flathead screwdriver!!!
ok, i just double checked with the DMM and everything is good.
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 03:22:25 PM
ok, i just double checked with the DMM and everything is good.
Okay! Thank goodness lol. It's always best to check - especially on vero or strip boards projects where more solder is used. Sometimes shorts are so tiny neither your eye or the almighty flathead screwdriver can adequately find it.
But it is evident that there's an issue somewhere near Q3. Keep checking it out and make sure your placement is correct. I'm sure there will be a breakthrough and you'll have a fully functional fuzz pedal soon!
We're waiting for another "No wait.." followed by another "beep fluctuation" followed by another "steady beep after somewhile" style post.. :icon_wink:
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 01:41:23 PM
im getting a relatively low volume signal with no fuzz or anything on the collector on q3.
The others are taking the mickey (not without some justification, given all we've been through) but the general point still stands:
That means there's something wrong with the third stage / second fuzz stage. Since that stage consists of only five resistors, two caps, two diodes and a transistor, you know where the problem must be. It's one of those components (see the schematic):
(https://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/bmp/big-muff-pi-v3-circuit-stages.png)
You need to go over those components very carefully to see that they are properly soldered, soldered in the right place, have the right values, don't have any shorts or muck on their connections, etc etc. Once you've done that, you'll have proper full fuzzy audio on that transistor's collector and we can move onto the tone stage.
If you want a hand, post voltages around the transistor. That should give us a clue.
Sorry if this seems tedious, but there really isn't another way to do it. You fix one thing, then you move onto the next. When you get to the end, everything is fixed and your pedal is working and you drink fizzy wine and celebrate! (or whatever it is you like to do to celebrate)
I HAVE A FUZZY COLLECTOR ON Q3!!
i think the output booster isnt working properly
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 10:02:22 PM
i think the output booster isnt working properly
Do you have signal on each pin of the tone pot? You should hear a HPF, LPF, and a mix of the two on pin 2.
Is the same signal from pin 2 making it to the base of Q4? I'll let you work out the rest.
Let's try once more..
(to pony up part of taking the mickey dues..) :icon_wink:
Desolder Tone pot lugs and place a 100k to 150k resistor between SW1 wire and Tone 2 one..
(you can even directly short those wires but you'll perceive a big volume raise..)
(https://i.imgur.com/afZthdm.jpg)
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 08:35:14 PM
I HAVE A FUZZY COLLECTOR ON Q3!!
Could you tell us what the problem was?
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 02, 2021, 10:56:26 AM
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 08:35:14 PM
I HAVE A FUZZY COLLECTOR ON Q3!!
Could you tell us what the problem was?
I had to replace the 12k resistors.
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 02, 2021, 10:56:26 AM
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 08:35:14 PM
I HAVE A FUZZY COLLECTOR ON Q3!!
Could you tell us what the problem was?
I had to replace the 12k resistors.
That's a weird way to say no.
What was wrong with the 12k resistors? What made you think replacing them would help?
I'd like for you to come up with a conclusion on how replacing them could have fixed the 2nd clipping amplifier (Q3 fuzz)
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 02, 2021, 02:59:53 PM
That's a weird way to say no.
Such a laminar thread should exhibit at least one weird post, shouldn't it..??
Allow me to entertain.
Here's one of your photos from your original post, though mirrored like I had suggested so you can compare against the layout.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XpLL0Djk/snowdebug1.png) (https://postimg.cc/XpLL0Djk)
Okay let's look in on that 12k resistor near Q3!
Aaaaand enhance
(https://i.postimg.cc/grkqHHqw/snowdebug2.png) (https://postimg.cc/grkqHHqw)
Hmm what's that?
Aaaaaand enhance
(https://i.postimg.cc/hX70748p/snowdebug3.png) (https://postimg.cc/hX70748p)
Do we need to look closer from here? No but we're here anyways.
ENHANCE
(https://i.postimg.cc/qgPqvkRk/snowdebug4.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Note - it was where you soldered the jumper in between the 12k resistor and the collector of Q3.
Maybe your screwdriver missed it. But do you know what wouldn't??
drumroll...... a continuity check with your multimeter!
Have a great weekend everybody!!!
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 02, 2021, 03:22:24 PM
Have a great weekend everybody!!!
Not without a flathead screwdriver.. :icon_wink:
P.S.
Sorry @snow123 but I think you've managed to turn the most well-intenioned guys (like Kevin & Tom) into ironic/sarcastic blackguards..
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 02, 2021, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on July 02, 2021, 10:56:26 AM
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 08:35:14 PM
I HAVE A FUZZY COLLECTOR ON Q3!!
Could you tell us what the problem was?
I had to replace the 12k resistors.
That's a weird way to say no.
What was wrong with the 12k resistors? What made you think replacing them would help?
I'd like for you to come up with a conclusion on how replacing them could have fixed the 2nd clipping amplifier (Q3 fuzz)
i did a bunch of probing, and thought to replace some capacitors ('cause in one of my previous pedal builds, there was a volume issue and the issue was caused by a capacitor) but that didnt work, and i heard that the signal was dying in that area so i just thought to replaces those resistors, i also replaced the 100uf cap 'cause it looked pretty bad. and i think the signal just couldnt get through the resistors or something like that.
Also, here's my current soldering and stuff
(https://i.postimg.cc/F1KBy45M/20210702-131648.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1KBy45M)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7bQQXWqf/20210702-131655.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7bQQXWqf)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fSkqDxfz/20210702-131705.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSkqDxfz)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0MkHHg6J/20210702-131713.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0MkHHg6J)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzhDFx7Q/20210702-131718.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzhDFx7Q)
Please stop bypassing my posts & advice.
And please flip Q4 the correct way.
Guys... I'm out. Hope you enjoyed the show.
Quote from: andy-h-h on July 02, 2021, 04:54:11 AM
Quote from: snow123 on July 01, 2021, 10:02:22 PM
i think the output booster isnt working properly
Do you have signal on each pin of the tone pot? You should hear a HPF, LPF, and a mix of the two on pin 2.
Is the same signal from pin 2 making it to the base of Q4? I'll let you work out the rest.
yes.
I shouldn't interupt, by my green ruski worked right "in the box". What ever happened to "neat", OMG I know why I don't use smerf board, yuck.
Anyway good luck on yer build, once it is boxed up it will be a thing of beauty. (Don't laugh )
(https://i.postimg.cc/R3ww0SB4/20210702-172145.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3ww0SB4)
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 04:10:06 PM
i did a bunch of probing, and thought to replace some capacitors ('cause in one of my previous pedal builds, there was a volume issue and the issue was caused by a capacitor) but that didnt work, and i heard that the signal was dying in that area so i just thought to replaces those resistors, i also replaced the 100uf cap 'cause it looked pretty bad. and i think the signal just couldnt get through the resistors or something like that.
This is why you're not having more success than you are. Your debugging method has very little method. "I thought to replace some capacitors, because once before the problem was a capacitor"? What the hell is that as logic?!? What happens if you remove a load of working capacitors and then solder some new ones in badly? Now you have new and different faults that weren't there before, and you basically have to go back to the beginning on the debugging. YOU NEED A KNOWN SITUATION. Randomly changing parts denies you that and makes it largely impossible to debug anything, because you don't know whether what you're seeing now is a result of the original faults or what you've changed since. Then you follow up the cqpacitors by changing a load of resistors, compunding the problems. So now we have a lot of untested capacitors and untested resistors in the circuit. That's a lot of steps *backwards*.
OK, so where exactly are we now?
Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?
If all that's ok, then we're looking at the the final output booster stage. But if any of those aren't giving a good result, we need to go back and fix that first. We can get this sorted but we need clear unambiguous answers and we need you to not change things from one time to the next.
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 05:32:45 PM
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?
do you mean that the tone pot changes what audio i get at c3?
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 05:32:45 PM
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 04:10:06 PM
i did a bunch of probing, and thought to replace some capacitors ('cause in one of my previous pedal builds, there was a volume issue and the issue was caused by a capacitor) but that didnt work, and i heard that the signal was dying in that area so i just thought to replaces those resistors, i also replaced the 100uf cap 'cause it looked pretty bad. and i think the signal just couldnt get through the resistors or something like that.
This is why you're not having more success than you are. Your debugging method has very little method. "I thought to replace some capacitors, because once before the problem was a capacitor"? What the hell is that as logic?!? What happens if you remove a load of working capacitors and then solder some new ones in badly? Now you have new and different faults that weren't there before, and you basically have to go back to the beginning on the debugging. YOU NEED A KNOWN SITUATION. Randomly changing parts denies you that and makes it largely impossible to debug anything, because you don't know whether what you're seeing now is a result of the original faults or what you've changed since. Then you follow up the cqpacitors by changing a load of resistors, compunding the problems. So now we have a lot of untested capacitors and untested resistors in the circuit. That's a lot of steps *backwards*.
OK, so where exactly are we now?
Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?
If all that's ok, then we're looking at the the final output booster stage. But if any of those aren't giving a good result, we need to go back and fix that first. We can get this sorted but we need clear unambiguous answers and we need you to not change things from one time to the next.
at q2s collector im just getting a boosted signal.
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 05:50:41 PM
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 05:32:45 PM
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?
do you mean that the tone pot changes what audio i get at c3?
if so, then yes but it also lowers the volume when i turn the tone knob past 12-o-clock.
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 05:50:41 PM
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 05:32:45 PM
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?
do you mean that the tone pot changes what audio i get at c3?
Yes, absolutely. That's the point of the Tone pot, after all. You should have a trebley tone at one end, and a bassy tone at the other, and a mid-scooped tone in the middle, more or less. It should be more *tonal* changes than *volume* changes. Volume changes might indicate that it's not quite right.
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 05:53:39 PM
at q2s collector im just getting a boosted signal.
This is the "Q2" from the stripboard layout, right? So that's the first fuzz stage? And now it's not fuzzing, it's just giving a bit of boost?
I'm extrapolating because you're not providing much information, but if so, that's exactly what I meant about going backwards. We *had* managed to debug this thing as far as the Tone control, but now (I think) you're telling me that the first fuzz stage doesn't work any more. I'm not that surprised if you mucked about with it and replaced a load of parts that didn't need replacing. That's what happens and that's why that's not a good idea. But don't worry about it, and don't get embarrassed about it. Sh!t happens, mostly when you least want it to! It's a learning experience, and we just plough on.
If the fuzz on that stage isn't working, that sounds like the diodes aren't properly connected. Check that the 1uF cap is properly soldered. A bad joint there would take the diodes out of the ciruit and kill the fuzz.
I was hoping for something more like:
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 05:32:45 PM
Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?
Yes, it sounds good.
Quote
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?
No, the sound is weak / Yes, I can turn the Tone pot and hear the sound change.
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 07:15:53 PM
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 05:50:41 PM
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 05:32:45 PM
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?
do you mean that the tone pot changes what audio i get at c3?
Yes, absolutely. That's the point of the Tone pot, after all. You should have a trebley tone at one end, and a bassy tone at the other, and a mid-scooped tone in the middle, more or less. It should be more *tonal* changes than *volume* changes. Volume changes might indicate that it's not quite right.
ok, so that means theres something wrong since when i turn the tone up past 12 o clock it starts to lose some volume.
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 07:27:42 PM
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 05:53:39 PM
at q2s collector im just getting a boosted signal.
This is the "Q2" from the stripboard layout, right? So that's the first fuzz stage? And now it's not fuzzing, it's just giving a bit of boost?
I'm extrapolating because you're not providing much information, but if so, that's exactly what I meant about going backwards. We *had* managed to debug this thing as far as the Tone control, but now (I think) you're telling me that the first fuzz stage doesn't work any more. I'm not that surprised if you mucked about with it and replaced a load of parts that didn't need replacing. That's what happens and that's why that's not a good idea. But don't worry about it, and don't get embarrassed about it. Sh!t happens, mostly when you least want it to! It's a learning experience, and we just plough on.
If the fuzz on that stage isn't working, that sounds like the diodes aren't properly connected. Check that the 1uF cap is properly soldered. A bad joint there would take the diodes out of the ciruit and kill the fuzz.
I was hoping for something more like:
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 05:32:45 PM
Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?
Yes, it sounds good.
Quote
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?
No, the sound is weak / Yes, I can turn the Tone pot and hear the sound change.
i just improved the soldering and soldered the diodes to the board instead of using sockets and now i hear more of an overdrive sound on the collector. and yes im using the q2 on the layout
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 07:27:42 PM
Quote from: snow123 on July 02, 2021, 05:53:39 PM
at q2s collector im just getting a boosted signal.
This is the "Q2" from the stripboard layout, right? So that's the first fuzz stage? And now it's not fuzzing, it's just giving a bit of boost?
I'm extrapolating because you're not providing much information, but if so, that's exactly what I meant about going backwards. We *had* managed to debug this thing as far as the Tone control, but now (I think) you're telling me that the first fuzz stage doesn't work any more. I'm not that surprised if you mucked about with it and replaced a load of parts that didn't need replacing. That's what happens and that's why that's not a good idea. But don't worry about it, and don't get embarrassed about it. Sh!t happens, mostly when you least want it to! It's a learning experience, and we just plough on.
If the fuzz on that stage isn't working, that sounds like the diodes aren't properly connected. Check that the 1uF cap is properly soldered. A bad joint there would take the diodes out of the ciruit and kill the fuzz.
I was hoping for something more like:
Quote from: ElectricDruid on July 02, 2021, 05:32:45 PM
Have you still got a proper fuzz signal at the collector of both fuzz stages?
Yes, it sounds good.
Quote
Have got got a solid audio (fuzz) signal at C3 (schematic reference) the 100nF from the Tone pot wiper?
No, the sound is weak / Yes, I can turn the Tone pot and hear the sound change.
i just improved the soldering and soldered the diodes to the board instead of using sockets and now i hear more of an overdrive sound on the collector. and yes im using the q2 on the layout
uhh i just tested again and it went back to a clean boost. wtf. like when i turn my amp on and off it goes back to a boost and when i turn it on and off again it goes to an overdrive thing.
might just be a grounding issue since the ground wire just came off of the circuit board lol
Just on sockets - I used to use the same ones you have. I stopped using them because I found them to often be the cause of problems. I found they are only really OK for a couple of changes at best, and then they become loose, causing issues. That's my experience anyway.
I tend to breadboard first, and then solder directly to the board. If you have no plans on testing / swapping out different parts, I really don't see the point of sockets.
Quote from: andy-h-h on July 02, 2021, 08:17:17 PM
Just on sockets - I used to use the same ones you have. I stopped using them because I found them to often be the cause of problems. I found they are only really OK for a couple of changes at best, and then they become loose, causing issues. That's my experience anyway.
I tend to breadboard first, and then solder directly to the board. If you have no plans on testing / swapping out different parts, I really don't see the point of sockets.
tbh i just use them to avoid overheating transistors and sometimes i like swapping out the transistors.
i guess the collectors have a "fuzz"y signal but not like super gnarly big muff fuzz
well im not getting any audio on c5, and i checked the soldering a few times and its still not working.
QuoteP.S.
Sorry @snow123 but I think you've managed to turn the most well-intenioned guys (like Kevin & Tom) into ironic/sarcastic blackguards..
.... and some of us are naturally blackguardings.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YSPZ5wzv/toohighrows.jpg)
with all your changes and still having faults, please
retake and post all transistor voltages again.
Quote from: duck_arse on July 03, 2021, 12:30:07 PM
QuoteP.S.
Sorry @snow123 but I think you've managed to turn the most well-intenioned guys (like Kevin & Tom) into ironic/sarcastic blackguards..
.... and some of us are naturally blackguardings.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YSPZ5wzv/toohighrows.jpg)
with all your changes and still having faults, please retake and post all transistor voltages again.
THATS WHY IM NOT HAVING AUDIO ON C5. i swear most of the issues with this are just caused by me being a blind idiot.
i have a very fuzzy collector on q2 and q3 now!!!!!
ok, now the pedal mostly works but when i plug everything in and stuff, and turn up the volume and the fuzz, the low end starts to get really boomy, really easily. so im assuming thats something to do with the tone stage?
Quote from: duck_arse on July 03, 2021, 12:30:07 PM
QuoteP.S.
Sorry @snow123 but I think you've managed to turn the most well-intenioned guys (like Kevin & Tom) into ironic/sarcastic blackguards..
.... and some of us are naturally blackguardings.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YSPZ5wzv/toohighrows.jpg)
with all your changes and still having faults, please retake and post all transistor voltages again.
that resistor says .97 on the DMM, and heres the voltages:
Q1:
E - .1
B - .7
C - 4.4
Q2:
E - .1
B - .7
C - 4.2
Q3:
E - .1
B - .7
C - 4.2
Q4:
E - .9
B - 1.4
C - 4.1
for some reason the 100k resistor thats going into q1s base is reading at 8.3k rather than 9.95k (with my DMM on 200k ohms.) but the 390r is normal.
Quote from: snow123 on July 04, 2021, 01:17:12 AM
for some reason the 100k resistor thats going into q1s base is reading at 8.3k rather than 9.95k (with my DMM on 200k ohms.) but the 390r is normal.
wait all of the 100k resistors are reading 8.3k, so im assuming thats normal?
No it's not. But I'm guessing you're measuring the resistors while they're in-circuit. In which case, they're in parallel with everything else (and therefore give a lower reading).
Quote from: bluebunny on July 04, 2021, 06:09:37 AM
No it's not. But I'm guessing you're measuring the resistors while they're in-circuit. In which case, they're in parallel with everything else (and therefore give a lower reading).
Yes, I am measuring them while in the circuit.
And are those voltages normal? 'cause the GGG page has voltages just for the regular big muff pi but not for the green Russian muff, And the main reason I was testing the resistors and stuff is to see why the voltages on the emmiters on all of the transitory are 1 volt too high compared to the GGG page.
Quote from: snow123 on July 04, 2021, 08:57:07 AM
Yes, I am measuring them while in the circuit.
You need to lift one leg before you measure it (for the reason I gave). The measurement is meaningless otherwise.
The voltages for one BMP vs. another BMP will be largely the same, since it's 97%
1 the same circuit each time. Meter loading may account for some (non-catastrophic) differences.
___
1 I made that number up, but you get the idea...
Quote from: bluebunny on July 04, 2021, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: snow123 on July 04, 2021, 08:57:07 AM
Yes, I am measuring them while in the circuit.
You need to lift one leg before you measure it (for the reason I gave). The measurement is meaningless otherwise.
The voltages for one BMP vs. another BMP will be largely the same, since it's 97%1 the same circuit each time. Meter loading may account for some (non-catastrophic) differences.
___
1 I made that number up, but you get the idea...
well since its parallel with everything else, 8.3k sounds about right tbh.
just lifted one leg and its 100k.
i dont really know why the emitters voltages are 1(ish) volt too high
wait the 470k near q1 is a little too high, its around 473k.
Quote from: snow123 on July 05, 2021, 06:26:45 PM
wait the 470k near q1 is a little too high, its around 473k.
Well within 1% item tolerance.. :icon_wink:
heres the voltages from q1-3
Q1:
E - .1
B - 3.8
C - 4.6
Q2:
E - .1
B - .7
C - 4.3
Q3:
E - .1
B - .7
C - 4.2
so q1s voltages are WAAAY OFF for some reason, while q2-3s collector and emitter are a little off.
i just swapped q1 with an mpsa18 and the voltages are just like everything else, so that seemed to be a bad transistor.
ITS WORKING NOW
time to move on to the phase 90?
DOD Chorus 565 maybe or DOD R825 Compressor ?
(Just kidding) Have fun on your next build what ever it may be.
Quote from: Phend on July 05, 2021, 08:36:05 PM
DOD Chorus 565 maybe or DOD R825 Compressor ?
eh, im just building pedals that i really want tbh.