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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: antonis on March 27, 2023, 11:17:46 AM

Title: Hard Bargain (Discrete..)
Post by: antonis on March 27, 2023, 11:17:46 AM
Of course, we're talking about Electricduide's well known Hard Bargain..
https://electricdruid.net/designing-the-hard-bargain-distortion-pedal/ (https://electricdruid.net/designing-the-hard-bargain-distortion-pedal/)

Below is an attempt to simulate overall circuit's behavior with discrete items (BJTs only – Fets strictly forbidden..) instead of ICs..
Tried to follow Tom's circuit architecture (partially 'cause I'm as lazy as Deadastronaut.. :icon_redface:) and, surprisingly, I'd to make only minor changes (e.g. R11/R18 stopper resistors different values due to port A hardly considered as "virtual ground"..)

(https://i.imgur.com/Pj7ypdi.png)

Q1/Q2 stage is an input CFP buffer with some gain (x3,5).. Q3 circuitry is the main distortion stage (x1,6 to x116 gain) followed by D1/D2/D3 clipping stage (SW1 switches between symmetrical and asymmetrical mode).. Q4/Q5 stage is a buffer for TILT control "isolation" (particular configuration might be kind of overkill but let it be..) :icon_wink: 
Q6/Q7 stage, as well as Q8/Q9 one are high gain (about x120) / low output (about 18R) CE amp drivers..
Q10/Q11 stage is an inverting buffer, just to set IN-OUT signal in phase..
(it can be omitted with no significant issues..) 

All 10μF caps (except output one) can be much smaller (but, as I said, I'm too lazy for particular filters corner frequency calculations..)   

Frequency response graphs will follow (in due course..) :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hard Bargain (Discrete..)
Post by: deadastronaut on March 27, 2023, 02:41:21 PM
 oi!..:icon_mrgreen:

Title: Re: Hard Bargain (Discrete..)
Post by: Fancy Lime on March 27, 2023, 03:06:43 PM
Antonis, this is so silly that I am not sure if you are making fun of me as well as Tom and astronaut. I like it! Taking a deliberately simple and efficient design and making it unnecessarily complicated by discreet implementation could have been my idea. Or a Boss circuit from the '90s...
Title: Re: Hard Bargain (Discrete..)
Post by: ElectricDruid on March 27, 2023, 03:38:27 PM
I rather like it. Ok, it might be *slightly* crazy, but in a good way.

I mean, imagine the number of transistors there must be inside all the op-amps I used in my version. You could say that Antonis' version is more efficient!

I don't think I'd call the original Hard Bargain "simple and efficient" by any stretch. Six op-amps for a simple dirt pedal seems pretty excessive to me. I couldn't work out a good way to get it down to only four though, and there was no way I was going to do a design with five, so six it is.



Title: Re: Hard Bargain (Discrete..)
Post by: antonis on March 27, 2023, 03:51:31 PM
That's the point, Andy.. :icon_wink:
(twice the parts count for an almost equivalent efficiency..)

To be honest, it started when I tried to implement NE5532 instead of TL072 and resulted into extra DC blocking capacitors, bias resistor bootstrapping, etc..
So I thought, why not discrete BJTs..?? :icon_redface:

P.S.
2 resistors and a capacitor saved due to Vbias abscence.. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hard Bargain (Discrete..)
Post by: antonis on March 28, 2023, 09:02:36 AM
Finally, graphs.. :icon_wink:

Andeniably, op-amp version is much more effective.. :-[

(https://i.imgur.com/EAYFjEz.jpg)
Title: Re: Hard Bargain (Discrete..)
Post by: Steben on March 30, 2023, 03:22:57 AM
I bet those discrete stages add slight even order harmonics which cannot be found with opamps.
Title: Re: Hard Bargain (Discrete..)
Post by: antonis on March 30, 2023, 06:39:42 AM
Could you imagine the above circuit with push-pull class A amps instead of single-ended ones..??