Hey all,
I just finished the new JHS video on the fuzz he built in Japan. He provided the schematic with the video and I figured I'd attempt to put it on veroboard with a voltage inverter so I can use it with a normal 9VDC jack.
This is my first time attempting a layout like this straight from a schematic, so I was wondering if anyone could just take a look and point out any errors I've potentially made? I am waiting for some germanium transistors to come in, so can't physically verify the layout just yet.
Appreciate any help!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wd02zrSS/Screen-Shot-2023-10-10-at-11-12-11-AM.png) (https://postimg.cc/Wd02zrSS)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Js0NWrq1/Negative-Voltage-Inverter.png) (https://postimg.cc/Js0NWrq1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0m65Fcs/Japan-Fuzz-Schematic.png) (https://postimg.cc/Z0m65Fcs)
The omission of an output cap may introduce some "chaos" but not the kind one might necessarily like; especially if this circuit is going directly into an amp where there may be no input cap to block the DC at its input.
Turns out I have a dozen or more TOshiba 2SA49 transistors sitting in a drawer gathering dust. Many have hfe measurements in the high 40s, but I quickly located a pair of 100 and 130, so I may try this later today.
Definitely! Would changing that 0.05uF cap to an electrolytic solve that?
And let me know if it works!
Quote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 10, 2023, 01:45:18 PMWould changing that 0.05uF cap to an electrolytic solve that?
No.
There's quite a few errors :(
Check the voltage inverter, ground connection in particular, and unfortunately there's quite a bit wrong with the rest of the layout. example: how does the signal get from the 2u2 cap to the base of Q1? How does voltage pass through the trimmer? The volume will work in reverse.
I'd suggest a fresh start & ignore Josh re adding some chaos. You need a cap on the output.
Quote from: andy-h-h on October 10, 2023, 04:42:44 PMThere's quite a few errors :(
Check the voltage inverter, ground connection in particular, and unfortunately there's quite a bit wrong with the rest of the layout. example: how does the signal get from the 2u2 cap to the base of Q1? How does voltage pass through the trimmer? The volume will work in reverse.
I'd suggest a fresh start & ignore Josh re adding some chaos. You need a cap on the output.
You're right! Thanks for pointing that stuff out. Time to start over haha.
I had a bunch of NOS Toshiba 2SA49 transistors (is there any other type?), so I perfed one up yesterday afternoon (shame on me for abandoning all the pre-built things I have to troubleshoot and get working). Instead of fixing the gain, I implemented a 1k gain pot, Fuzz Face style, and skipped the weird output pot arrangement that fails to block DC. Not everything one might plug into has a DC-blocking cap on its input. Finally, I added an extra switch-selectable 250k feedback resistance on top of the 100k shown, for some added glitchiness.
It's a Fuzz Face. The transistors I selected from the pile were more or less in Mike Fuller's recommended range, although I never attempted to measure leakage. I have a bunch more 2SA49s and installed sockets for them on the board, so I may swap some out to see if they make a difference.
Okay, here's attempt #2. Fixed the issue with the 2.2uF cap not getting to the base of Q1. The voltage to the trimmer goes through the 1K resistor if I'm reading it right on the schematic. I've added an output cap, but not sure if the orientation/value. Regardless, I'm having a lot of fun messing around with this stuff! It's a fun puzzle. Let me know what ya'll think.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9wy5cfvg/JHS-Japan-Fuzz-V2-Vero.png) (https://postimg.cc/9wy5cfvg)
Quote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 11, 2023, 05:16:28 PMLet me know what ya'll think.
It's a bit of mess inside the red circled area.. :icon_wink:
You have to add another column and move columns 11, 12 and 13 righthand..
Then add a jumper between 9B & 9C (to turm trimpot into variable resistor), move cut 11B one column lefthand and move 1μF output cap lower leg to 11B (polarity retained)..
Omitted pic.. :icon_redface:
(https://i.imgur.com/qTerBLx.png)
Quote from: antonis on October 12, 2023, 05:50:59 AMQuote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 11, 2023, 05:16:28 PMLet me know what ya'll think.
It's a bit of mess inside the red circled area.. :icon_wink:
You have to add another column and move columns 11, 12 and 13 righthand..
Then add a jumper between 9B & 9C (to turm trimpot into variable resistor), move cut 11B one column lefthand and move 1μF output cap lower leg to 11B (polarity retained)..
Okay how does this look? I changed the trimmer to an inline to save some space.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GTF6ZmkP/Screen-Shot-2023-10-12-at-9-07-35-AM.png) (https://postimg.cc/GTF6ZmkP)
Looking better. Check your work round the volume pot as mentioned above - not quite right. You can use a much smaller cap on the output (Fuzz Face uses 10n, you have 1u). I'd avoid the electro and use a film cap.
Also note that you have one side of the board labeled as ground, and the other side +GND.
General questions:
- Why try and make the vero layout so small?
- How are you mounting it in the enclosure?
In DIYLC you can set component size to match the parts that you have. Your electrolytic caps are probably bigger than what is on your layout.
The 1k on the emitter of Q2 could happily site anywhere on the bottom right of the board. The 100k could almost do without a link. Could align all the cuts under the IC.
Quote from: andy-h-h on October 12, 2023, 04:37:29 PMLooking better. Check your work round the volume pot as mentioned above - not quite right. You can use a much smaller cap on the output (Fuzz Face uses 10n, you have 1u). I'd avoid the electro and use a film cap.
Also note that you have one side of the board labeled as ground, and the other side +GND.
General questions:
- Why try and make the vero layout so small?
- How are you mounting it in the enclosure?
In DIYLC you can set component size to match the parts that you have. Your electrolytic caps are probably bigger than what is on your layout.
The 1k on the emitter of Q2 could happily site anywhere on the bottom right of the board. The 100k could almost do without a link. Could align all the cuts under the IC.
Great!
I'll change that output cap. I want the board small because one it makes me think and little more creatively, and two I want it to go into a 1590B, which now it will without a problem.
And yeah I have the wire pointing to ground, and positive ground is there just for my purposes.
I'll probably mount it with adhesive mounts or superglue on the back of the pots (with covers) like I sometimes do.
What should I change on the volume pot?
Fair enough. :D
I've made some really small layouts before and later found that they were unnecessarily small and complicated, which just made them harder to build. I say if you have the space, use it (within reason). You still have room for more columns in a 1590B.
For the volume pot, signal normally enters pin 3, exits pin 2 and pin 1 goes to ground. If you do the reverse of this (reverse pins 1 & 3) the pot has to rotate counter-clockwise to increase level. Also look at where the 1u cap is connected.
Good luck
Quote from: andy-h-h on October 12, 2023, 09:11:58 PMFair enough. :D
I've made some really small layouts before and later found that they were unnecessarily small and complicated, which just made them harder to build. I say if you have the space, use it (within reason). You still have room for more columns in a 1590B.
For the volume pot, signal normally enters pin 3, exits pin 2 and pin 1 goes to ground. If you do the reverse of this (reverse pins 1 & 3) the pot has to rotate counter-clockwise to increase level. Also look at where the 1u cap is connected.
Good luck
Awesome! Appreciate your help. I changed the volume pot around and adjusted the output cap.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gnrcb6gk/Screen-Shot-2023-10-13-at-10-48-03-AM.png) (https://postimg.cc/gnrcb6gk)
10nF output cap might be OK for 500k Volume pot but can you guarantee for succeeding effect high input impedance..?? :icon_wink:
Here's my build. The 450k volume pot is a weirdo Bourns pot that I found when helping to clean up late forum member Peter Snow's workbench. I gather he had bought these as a great E-bay deal, really cheap, because he had at least 100 of them in a bin. He also had a similar number of 190k pots of the same form. All came with a nice black control knob. Good thing too, because the shafts are a VERY non-standard diameter.
(https://i.postimg.cc/v4BdQwjg/100-9200.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v4BdQwjg)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ZiMAAOSwwz1fous4/s-l400.jpg)
Quote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 13, 2023, 11:48:27 AMQuote from: andy-h-h on October 12, 2023, 09:11:58 PMFair enough. :D
I've made some really small layouts before and later found that they were unnecessarily small and complicated, which just made them harder to build. I say if you have the space, use it (within reason). You still have room for more columns in a 1590B.
For the volume pot, signal normally enters pin 3, exits pin 2 and pin 1 goes to ground. If you do the reverse of this (reverse pins 1 & 3) the pot has to rotate counter-clockwise to increase level. Also look at where the 1u cap is connected.
Good luck
Awesome! Appreciate your help. I changed the volume pot around and adjusted the output cap.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gnrcb6gk/Screen-Shot-2023-10-13-at-10-48-03-AM.png) (https://postimg.cc/gnrcb6gk)
Hey there - You might want to take another look at the output cap and the schematic. It's still not right at present.
Quote from: andy-h-h on October 13, 2023, 05:46:14 PMQuote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 13, 2023, 11:48:27 AMQuote from: andy-h-h on October 12, 2023, 09:11:58 PMFair enough. :D
I've made some really small layouts before and later found that they were unnecessarily small and complicated, which just made them harder to build. I say if you have the space, use it (within reason). You still have room for more columns in a 1590B.
For the volume pot, signal normally enters pin 3, exits pin 2 and pin 1 goes to ground. If you do the reverse of this (reverse pins 1 & 3) the pot has to rotate counter-clockwise to increase level. Also look at where the 1u cap is connected.
Good luck
Awesome! Appreciate your help. I changed the volume pot around and adjusted the output cap.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gnrcb6gk/Screen-Shot-2023-10-13-at-10-48-03-AM.png) (https://postimg.cc/gnrcb6gk)
Hey there - You might want to take another look at the output cap and the schematic. It's still not right at present.
I'm confused on what should be changed. Are you talking about the 0.05uF cap? If so, yeah I need to slide that down.
The down side of the 10nF, output cap, should go in Volume 3. You have to change a bit the layout to keep on the board the 0.50uF cap and connected on the Volume 2 and Volume 3... no so much easy, at my first sight (not impossible, of course).
Did you think of put that 0.50uF cap directly on the pot?
The output cap goes from the junction of the 1k resistor and the 10k trimmer, to pin 3 of the volume pot. You have one end of the output cap connected to -9v / in parallel with the 1k resistor.
The 0.05u (50n) cap is in the right position according to the schematic (Across pin 3 and pin 2 volume).
Quote from: Elijah-Baley on October 14, 2023, 04:16:00 AMThe down side of the 10nF, output cap, should go in Volume 3. You have to change a bit the layout to keep on the board the 0.50uF cap and connected on the Volume 2 and Volume 3... no so much easy, at my first sight (not impossible, of course).
Did you think of put that 0.50uF cap directly on the pot?
Okay! I moved the volume 1 connection down to the positive ground rail, and just moved the 10nF cap down to it as well. That took away a jumper and trace cut! For the sake of staying neat and orderly, I just decided to keep the bright cap on the board. Let me know if that looks right.
Top pic is the inline trimmer, bottom is the box trimmer with a little bit bigger board and slightly varied jumpers.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CZ35G65X/Screen-Shot-2023-10-15-at-7-30-19-PM.png) (https://postimg.cc/CZ35G65X)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CZ5BwqnM/Screen-Shot-2023-10-15-at-7-48-41-PM.png) (https://postimg.cc/CZ5BwqnM)
I have a strong suspicion the schematic is wrong.
The 50nF cap should go between the collector of Q2 and pin 3 of the output pot.
As shown, if you connected it to a tube amp it's going to be putting 4.5V into the grid. That's not going to be good. I doubt JHS would do that.
Quote from: Rob Strand on October 15, 2023, 09:29:28 PMI have a strong suspicion the schematic is wrong.
The 50nF cap should go between the collector of Q2 and pin 3 of the output pot.
As shown, if you connected it to a tube amp it's going to be putting 4.5V into the grid. That's not going to be good. I doubt JHS would do that.
The 50nF cap is a treble cap. Without it, the circuit is dark. You're right, there was no output cap in the schematic because it adds "chaos" as Josh said. Obviously, a little different thinking than most.
Quote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 15, 2023, 10:22:03 PMThe 50nF cap is a treble cap. Without it, the circuit is dark. You're right, there was no output cap in the schematic because it adds "chaos" as Josh said. Obviously, a little different thinking than most.
If that's how it's then that's how it is, so to speak.
It's going to create different chaos on amps with AC coupled inputs and DC coupled inputs - not consistent chaos :icon_mrgreen: .
Quote from: Rob Strand on October 15, 2023, 10:58:16 PMQuote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 15, 2023, 10:22:03 PMThe 50nF cap is a treble cap. Without it, the circuit is dark. You're right, there was no output cap in the schematic because it adds "chaos" as Josh said. Obviously, a little different thinking than most.
If that's how it's then that's how it is, so to speak.
It's going to create different chaos on amps with AC coupled inputs and DC coupled inputs - not consistent chaos :icon_mrgreen: .
Exactly. Grey Bench Electronics did a great video on it today explaining it with this exact circuit!
QuoteExactly. Grey Bench Electronics did a great video on it today explaining it with this exact circuit!
You are well in front of me on this one - I should be asking you the questions :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 15, 2023, 08:32:16 PMQuote from: Elijah-Baley on October 14, 2023, 04:16:00 AMThe down side of the 10nF, output cap, should go in Volume 3. You have to change a bit the layout to keep on the board the 0.50uF cap and connected on the Volume 2 and Volume 3... no so much easy, at my first sight (not impossible, of course).
Did you think of put that 0.50uF cap directly on the pot?
Okay! I moved the volume 1 connection down to the positive ground rail, and just moved the 10nF cap down to it as well. That took away a jumper and trace cut! For the sake of staying neat and orderly, I just decided to keep the bright cap on the board. Let me know if that looks right.
Top pic is the inline trimmer, bottom is the box trimmer with a little bit bigger board and slightly varied jumpers.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CZ35G65X/Screen-Shot-2023-10-15-at-7-30-19-PM.png) (https://postimg.cc/CZ35G65X)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CZ5BwqnM/Screen-Shot-2023-10-15-at-7-48-41-PM.png) (https://postimg.cc/CZ5BwqnM)
Hello - you still have the 10n cap in the wrong place. Like this - here's a rough and ready vero with no voltage inverter / filtering / polarity protection. You get the idea...
I had a quick play with this on LTspice. You want something bigger than the standard 10n on a fuzz face to get close to the response of no cap at all (like the schematic).
Grey Bench Electronics has done a great job on YouTube breadboarding it, so I don't feel the need to test this myself.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jwjJNrKz/temp-Imagegavy-PP.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jwjJNrKz)
Quote from: andy-h-h on October 16, 2023, 04:25:02 AMQuote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 15, 2023, 08:32:16 PMQuote from: Elijah-Baley on October 14, 2023, 04:16:00 AMThe down side of the 10nF, output cap, should go in Volume 3. You have to change a bit the layout to keep on the board the 0.50uF cap and connected on the Volume 2 and Volume 3... no so much easy, at my first sight (not impossible, of course).
Did you think of put that 0.50uF cap directly on the pot?
Okay! I moved the volume 1 connection down to the positive ground rail, and just moved the 10nF cap down to it as well. That took away a jumper and trace cut! For the sake of staying neat and orderly, I just decided to keep the bright cap on the board. Let me know if that looks right.
Top pic is the inline trimmer, bottom is the box trimmer with a little bit bigger board and slightly varied jumpers.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CZ35G65X/Screen-Shot-2023-10-15-at-7-30-19-PM.png) (https://postimg.cc/CZ35G65X)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CZ5BwqnM/Screen-Shot-2023-10-15-at-7-48-41-PM.png) (https://postimg.cc/CZ5BwqnM)
Hello - you still have the 10n cap in the wrong place. Like this - here's a rough and ready vero with no voltage inverter / filtering / polarity protection. You get the idea...
I had a quick play with this on LTspice. You want something bigger than the standard 10n on a fuzz face to get close to the response of no cap at all (like the schematic).
Grey Bench Electronics has done a great job on YouTube breadboarding it, so I don't feel the need to test this myself.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jwjJNrKz/temp-Imagegavy-PP.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jwjJNrKz)
You're right. I don't know why I keep making that mistake. The cap should come from out of the trimmer before volume 3.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HJ5MhbBZ/Screen-Shot-2023-10-16-at-7-28-53-AM.png) (https://postimg.cc/HJ5MhbBZ)
So close - missing a cut under the output cap.
Quote from: andy-h-h on October 16, 2023, 03:05:21 PMSo close - missing a cut under the output cap.
Moved some stuff around to make room for the transistor sockets. I'll label those here in a bit. I think this is looking good!
(https://i.postimg.cc/2qWb6NPH/Screen-Shot-2023-10-17-at-1-34-08-PM.png) (https://postimg.cc/2qWb6NPH)
That'll work - you got there in the end. :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: andy-h-h on October 17, 2023, 04:39:05 PMThat'll work - you got there in the end. :icon_biggrin:
Finally haha. Appreciate your help!
I have a question - you don't have a bypass cap going directly from +9v to ground. I know you're immediately turning it into -9V with the IC, but I presumed it would be good practice to add even, say, a 47uf cap across 9V, no?
Quote from: ToneRangerAudio on October 17, 2023, 07:21:28 PMQuote from: andy-h-h on October 17, 2023, 04:39:05 PMThat'll work - you got there in the end. :icon_biggrin:
Finally haha. Appreciate your help!
Actually :icon_redface: I missed something as I was too busy looking at the output cap. The 10uf on the inverter should be across pins 2 & 4.
Boom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/N9pKX7n4/Screen-Shot-2023-10-29-at-10-02-35-AM.png) (https://postimg.cc/N9pKX7n4)