DIYstompboxes.com

Hey all...

It's consensus request time..   Has anyone built the Axis (I'm sure)? And we're seeing some good results on the 70 pedal builds, was just wondering if anyone can compare them side by side, I would appreciate it. Doug H., Pete, Aron... anyone?  I'm gonna try and get them both on the bread board this week, and I will post my opinions, as I will test them thru a 4-input Marshall and see what it's all about..  :)

Dave

I breadboarded the axis a couple times and it is the worse sounding fuzz I have ever heard in my life. I tried everything tuning-wise, adjusted bias, begged, borrowed, pleaded, and otherwise attempted to cajole a good tone out of it but that just wasn't going to happen. It had this annoying strong 2nd harmonic ring that just sounded nasty IMO. I have heard a few clips of it that sounded similar, so I don't think I did anything wrong when I tried it. But some people may like that sound so don't let me put you off of trying it. It's simple, try breadboarding and see what you think.

For the EJ "cliffs of dover" tone you definitely want to go the FT70 route, IMO.

Doug

Thanks Doug..  Knowing how great a player and tone conneseur that you are, I can take that to the bank.  Man, have you seen the Harmony Central reviews?  There a lot of "10"'s for sound quality. Hmmm...  Well I'll try it anyway for shits and giggles.  My 1959SLP re-issue should be a good test rig anyway.  

 Of course reviews fron others are welcomed also...  :)

Dave

I'll come foreward now. I tried the Axis for a day or so, and messed with the usual stuff...swapping Q's, getting them biased, diddling with the knobs and a cap or two.
 I haven't scavenged on it yet, but now I think I'll do just that.
 I thought there was something technically wrong with my build or the schematic, ...kinda still do...for me at least...[IMO cause I didn't like the sounds]

Quote from: DavefxThanks Doug..  Knowing how great a player and tone conneseur that you are, I can take that to the bank.  Man, have you seen the Harmony Central reviews?  There a lot of "10"'s for sound quality. Hmmm...  Well I'll try it anyway for shits and giggles.  My 1959SLP re-issue should be a good test rig anyway.  

 Of course reviews fron others are welcomed also...  :)

Dave

Well, I probably shouldn't have come off so strong and I apologize for not being more diplomatic.  :D All this stuff is just subjective opinion. I don't understand the high reviews it gets either. Maybe the schem is wrong or something, or there's a side to the tone I just don't understand.

I would rephrase my original response to, "it depends on what sound you're after".

Doug

In my experience, the RM axis is an awesome fuzz and the ONLY pedal in his line that sounds good IMO...blows away any fulltone pedal with ease too, which isn't hard anyways...if you're in the states you gotta make sure you put those extra 2 components in there, the .001 and the 220 ohm resistor otherwise you get static and other problems due to our screwed up voltage here...in Europe you don't need those 2 parts...perhaps that's what some of you are hearing? maybe a bad scheme? If you build it right I don't think there's too many fuzz lovers who wouldn't like it...

Let me just say this: When I plug my stock strat into my early-70's Marshalls, I get BOG right away, and when I plug my flying V through the same amp, I nail Isle of Wight to the T!

The most important thing to consider when playing this pedal, is that it WON'T sound good with a small amp in your bedroom, with the fuzz turned all the way up and the volume control turned down...this pedal is meant to be played through an already-cranked amp (like all fuzztones!) Preferably an old Marshall

NO BEDROOM TESTING PLEASE!

DEFINITELY build it and crank it!

I think B Wenz will probably chime in soon because he built one long ago and he loves his too...

Hello Hello-
    Yeah, the Axis  [with one mod] is a great fuzz to use with a Marshall or Vox-type amp when cranked to a a good  "playing-with-the-band-with-real-people-on-stage" volume level.   The fuzz and volume controls can be tweaked and balanced for lots of "fuzz vs. gain" settings when switching between single coil and humbucker pickups.
I've built up a  basically stock version [2N3904 and 2N3906] and one using a mosfet in Q2 .  Both versions have one res. lowered to take some of the "woof" out when using neck pickups [that's the mod mentioned earlier...]
 Hendrix used this circuit alot from 1968 onward......you can tell the differences in tone from these years.
With a little bit of knob twiddling you can get a better range of real-world tones then the earlier Fuzz Face circuit.
Brian.

Thanks guys..   As I said , I am going to build it up, and for the purpose of use with my 4-input plexi re-issue, cranked with real world people-volume.....uhhh like you said- LOL!!!  I will agree also that there are very few "fuzzes" that sound good with a clean amp only, (the Rocket does tho, IMO). That's why I queried the forum, I knew I would get some great feedback!!  

Thanks again

Quote from: brian wenzHello Hello-
    Yeah, the Axis  [with one mod] is a great fuzz to use with a Marshall or Vox-type amp when cranked to a a good  "playing-with-the-band-with-real-people-on-stage" volume level.   The fuzz and volume controls can be tweaked and balanced for lots of "fuzz vs. gain" settings when switching between single coil and humbucker pickups.
I've built up a  basically stock version [2N3904 and 2N3906] and one using a mosfet in Q2 .  Both versions have one res. lowered to take some of the "woof" out when using neck pickups [that's the mod mentioned earlier...]
 Hendrix used this circuit alot from 1968 onward......you can tell the differences in tone from these years.
With a little bit of knob twiddling you can get a better range of real-world tones then the earlier Fuzz Face circuit.
Brian.

Okay, good enough. :D

I'll try it again, this time with my tube amp cranked and see what it sounds like. I know the fuzz face type circuits sound better with a cranked up amp and I don't think I tried this one that way before.

What is the resistor mod you did, Brian? Is this schem basically correct then?

http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/axisfuzz.gif

Doug

QuoteI'll try it again, this time with my tube amp cranked and see what it sounds like. I know the fuzz face type circuits sound better with a cranked up amp and I don't think I tried this one that way before.

Or... What your neighbors sounds like???  :D
hehehee...

Kleber AG

Quote from: Doug H

Quote from: brian wenzHello Hello-
    Yeah, the Axis  [with one mod] is a great fuzz to use with a Marshall or Vox-type amp when cranked to a a good  "playing-with-the-band-with-real-people-on-stage" volume level.   The fuzz and volume controls can be tweaked and balanced for lots of "fuzz vs. gain" settings when switching between single coil and humbucker pickups.
I've built up a  basically stock version [2N3904 and 2N3906] and one using a mosfet in Q2 .  Both versions have one res. lowered to take some of the "woof" out when using neck pickups [that's the mod mentioned earlier...]
 Hendrix used this circuit alot from 1968 onward......you can tell the differences in tone from these years.
With a little bit of knob twiddling you can get a better range of real-world tones then the earlier Fuzz Face circuit.
Brian.

Okay, good enough. :D

I'll try it again, this time with my tube amp cranked and see what it sounds like. I know the fuzz face type circuits sound better with a cranked up amp and I don't think I tried this one that way before.

What is the resistor mod you did, Brian? Is this schem basically correct then?

http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/axisfuzz.gif

Doug

Yeah that scheme is correct...what we did is lower the 47K resistor that's tied to the 22 uF cap, down to around 27K-33K, to get rid of any "glitch" that happens when the fuzz pot is up high...the equivalent of lowering the collector resistor of Q2 on a regular silicon FF for better bias...

Use good quality older Motorola or GE types if possible for the 3904 and 3906...the newer fairchilds don't sound that great at all...

[quote="Ammscray
Yeah that scheme is correct...what we did is lower the 47K resistor that's tied to the 22 uF cap, down to around 27K-33K, to get rid of any "glitch" that happens when the fuzz pot is up high...the equivalent of lowering the collector resistor of Q2 on a regular silicon FF for better bias...

Use good quality older Motorola or GE types if possible for the 3904 and 3906...the newer fairchilds don't sound that great at all...[/quote]

Okay, so you basically gave it more negative feedback as well as adjusting the bias to Q1 which biases Q2 and lowers the Q2 collector voltage a little.

I have some older 2n3904's, not sure about the 2n3906's, I'll have to check.

Thanks!

Doug

Hello Hello
   I built up one version using a 3904 and 3906 from Radio Shack  [HHAARRRFFFF! !] and I thought it sounded pretty good, but after I built another one with the trannys that Ammscray mentioned I could really hear a difference.  I also compared the "modded" version with an original that I had sitting around and the DIY version sounded [and WORKED] better.  [The owner of the original one even noticed.]
Brian.

Great!!  Not another "Holy Grail" tranny!!!??? Now the new 3904's are no good??  Sheesh...  Well, anybody got any GE's or Motorolas for sale??!!
:lol:

sometimes reading ckt comparisons can be confusing,
 I find I'm trying to sort out which comment applies to which ckt...

I went looking for the Axis [I think it reached it's first pinnacle about 4 months ago] to try the drop the 47k R down trick...couldn't find it.
 While I was looking I did the 70 up, I 'perf-ected' it [kinda used to wirin' the FF types], even with the couple new interesting twists, it fired right up, and the knobs are working quite well.
 I upped the K on the Top 1k pot, and the lower 1kpot [used the real nice 2k pots with resistors across the sidelugs to bring them to ~1.5k,] I used the pots from the heath component tester, not a bad idea I think for diyer...gets the gain up where ya know it's UP...and the adjustment is even and easy to find...about 8.5...anythinng much over that could be too much...I like having them go over the top of where I want them on FF, but you'll have to watch the settings and might not be friendly to new users.
 I used a 100k output pot, having sans 250k's here, seems like the output isn't suffering...just the dangly board with no TB, hard to say for sure how output compares to unity.
 Q.  How Does putting a smaller K output pot here affect ckt function other that shunting more signal to ground in terms of diode clip, impedance, or anything to do with Q2?  
 Q1///right now is a NTE123
 Q2 is NTE47...which I find much hotter, more highs
 The others Q's tried were 2n3904, 2n4401, and an NTE103.
 The 103 in Q2 slot. was tryin to be kool, but lacked polish.
 I tried with and without the trimcaps, then with.
 I don't know I have what I want in it, hafta get more little dinkers for tinkerin'.  I just got Q1 and Q2 situated in four pin socket strips and the cap spans the Q1 and Q2 collectors [each collector is tied to the fourth socket pin].
 I'm thinking something a little more exotic in the actives section might be interesting....any suggestions? What have you been trying and liking?

tset

While I was looking I whipped up a 70.
 Knobs werk great! I used a little over for the 1k pots...starting with 2k's I used resistors across the outer lugs to get them about 1.5k. I like these this way, going over the top of where I want them set, might not be user friendly this way for new user...but I like it,
 Tried 2n3904's 2n2222, NTE 103
 now theres a NTE 123 in Q1 and a NTE47 in Q2, a little hotter than the 3904's I tried in Q2.
 Any suggestions for more exotic actives recommendations?
 The 103 [for Q2] sounded like it was tryin to be cool but lacked 'polish' and was lower putput, for lack of a less subhective sounding werd.
 Oh I put in a smaller incap [22uf ?]the schematic calls for a comparitively large value input cap...
 I couldn't find a GE that measured what was that .226v? but tried 1n34 and 1n914, which definitelly worked, tried a seriesed pair which didn't.
 I turned the diode around [from whichever way it was] and that helped.
 What kindof Transistor would you recommend trying?

You recommend I try in the 70?

Quote from: Ammscray
Yeah that scheme is correct...what we did is lower the 47K resistor that's tied to the 22 uF cap, down to around 27K-33K, to get rid of any "glitch" that happens when the fuzz pot is up high...the equivalent of lowering the collector resistor of Q2 on a regular silicon FF for better bias...

Use good quality older Motorola or GE types if possible for the 3904 and 3906...the newer fairchilds don't sound that great at all...

Okay, I finally got around to breadboarding this thing again. I tried it through my firefly amp cranked up pretty good. I can see what people like about this thing, but in some ways it's still not my cup of tea (more on that later).

First, I subbed the 47k with a 27k and that's a good mod. It gave it a wider range of sounds that were easier to dial in. I started with fairchild transistors then subbed a motorola metal can 2n2222 for the 2n3904 with roughly the same hfe (around 190) as the 3904. That sounded really good. I love these metal 2222's, they are very smooth sounding and work well in a si fuzz face circuit too.

The thing about the axis that is very good is it is an extremely "organic" and remote-controllable fuzz. It responds very well to guitar volume changes and you can dial in a wide palette of sounds that way. I'm not going to say it "cleans up" better than a FF or anything, that's not the point. The point is it morphs from a really nice, if not slightly bright, overdrive sound to a wild and wicked fuzz tone by changing either your guitar volume, the "fuzz" control, or volume control, or some combo of all 3. The "overdrive" sound is very good. Leaving the "fuzz" control at 50% or less gives it this really good overdrive sound that does clean up completely with guitar volume. This has a vintage vibe to it that is very cool. Sounds similar but much better than a TS to me.

Another good thing about it is it is -very- quiet. The way Mayer set up the biasing and power filtering of the base of Q1 is very slick. He used a similar setup in the octavia.

With the fuzz control at 75% or above, and with guitar volume maxed, you get a really wild fuzz sound. It has a slight swell effect on the lower strings, and blooms into upper harmonic and octave feedback -very- easily. I can see using this sound for emphasis and drama, but the overall timbre of it is fizzy and nasally. So for a more usable lead tone, I like the sound of the guitar volume around 7 or so, if the fuzz or volume on the axis is set high. This is the problem I have with it- finding a usable lead tone on it and getting the balance right between the freaked out intense fuzz and the overdrive sound. (I hear this sound on BOG too and don't particularly care for it. I tend to like the overdrive/vibe/octavia tones on that album moreso than some of the intense fuzz, as well as the very cool tunes. But that's a completely different subject...)

At first I thought, man I'm gonna build this, I love the harmonic blooms and it is really fun to fool with. Then I unplugged and went straight into the amp and kicked on the booster stage and realized I had all the harmonic blooms and etc I needed...:D I looked around at my other fuzz pedals and thought I don't really need another fuzz pedal right now... Not worth distracting me from my next amp build right now anyway... :D

So one day I'll probably build this. It's a lot of fun even if it's not the end-all be-all of fuzz tone for me. :D

And of course, this is all IMO, since tone is a very subjective subject.

Doug