Hello Hello--
I tried out a Colorsound Hackett Model Tonebender [4-tranny] Re-issue and the thing had A LOT of hiss and circuit noise. Since I've been building some 4-tranny circuits lately [and finding them to be noisey] it seems that these circuits are just going to be that way!. I stopped using things like Big Muffs and Benders in the late 70's so I'd forgotten about the noise factors involved. What's your experience??
Brian.
Did you try the Hot Si at Doug H's site?
The HotSi can be kind of hissy at max gain, but there is a sweet spot at about 90% where it quiets right down and still has plenty of gain. My soundclip was recorded at that setting.
Doug
Hello Gus-
Yes, I did! [a few days ago] I like it A LOT! My only question concerns the inherent noise of the circuit.......when the volume and fuzz are up high and I back the guitars' volume control down there is a lot of the "Niagra Falls"-somebody's- taking- a- shower- in- the -next- room kind of racket. Is this "hiss" just something that is going to be in these 3 and 4 tranny circuits??
Thanks-
Brian.
Hello Doug--
Yeah, I tried putting a 2.2uf in place of the 4.7 in the gain section and it helped some. I seem to remember that something like a Big Muff was pretty noisey in a band situation [playing through 50 or 100-watt amps cranked with a drummer.....etc....] and I'm wondering if that's just something that must go along with using these types of pedals. You don't notice it as much sitting in the house with a practice amp, but taking 'em out in the real world sheds a different light on the noise issue!
Brian.
Hi Brian,
I'm following this thread as well! My Supa TB build is really noisy too.
Jim
Quote from: brian wenzHello Doug--
Yeah, I tried putting a 2.2uf in place of the 4.7 in the gain section and it helped some. I seem to remember that something like a Big Muff was pretty noisey in a band situation [playing through 50 or 100-watt amps cranked with a drummer.....etc....] and I'm wondering if that's just something that must go along with using these types of pedals. You don't notice it as much sitting in the house with a practice amp, but taking 'em out in the real world sheds a different light on the noise issue!
Brian.
I play out with my HotSi on a semi-weekly or weekly basis and don't have a problem with noise. But I leave the gain at 75%-90% setting. To me there's no real difference in tone between that setting and 100% other than a hair more high-freqs and a lot more noise. I'm not sure what the deal is with that setting or why it quiets down so much. Maybe I'm using a cheap bypass cap or I should use a tant or something. Maybe I should use metal film resistors for all the bias networks. Those would probably help but high gain is high gain :D . I kind of expect noise, and the tonebender circuit is a monstrous fuzz sound. :D
Doug
Hello Hello Jim!
Yeah, I wish some more people would chime in...
Brian.
Hello Hello Doug--
O.K., how could the circuit be modified to act as if it had that pre-set sweet spot?? In other words, when the volume is set on "10" it would be the same as having the original set on "8". Or maybe lowering the overall gain of the circuit??
Yeah, the 2.2 cap that I put in there IS a tant!
I agree about the gain...having it on "10" is not that much different tone-wise then on "8"
Having the tone all the way adds hiss, too.
What guitar and amp set up are you playing through??
Brian.
Quote from: brian wenzHello Hello Doug--
O.K., how could the circuit be modified to act as if it had that pre-set sweet spot?? In other words, when the volume is set on "10" it would be the same as having the original set on "8". Or maybe lowering the overall gain of the circuit??
Yeah, the 2.2 cap that I put in there IS a tant!
I agree about the gain...having it on "10" is not that much different tone-wise then on "8"
Having the tone all the way adds hiss, too.
What guitar and amp set up are you playing through??
Brian.
You need one that goes to 11! :D
Maybe try a small resistor between the cap and gain pot wiper, say 100-300 ohm. That would be my guess for a start.
I'm just using my hamer sunburst with super distortion bridge pup and my yamaha transistor amp right now. Sometimes for emphasis I drive the HotSi with my Hwy 89 to get more harmonic feedback and sustain. I suppose it can get noisy but when the rest of the band is kicking I don't notice it.
Doug
Hello Doug--
HAMER! One of the best guitars I've ever owned is my '90 Hamer Archtop [Sunburst]. Best "humbucker" tone I've got [I use Gibson Burstbuckers in it]. Is yours a carved top or flat??
I've got a couple old Super Distorts laying around, too....very good pickups! [I just have to figure out what guitar to use 'em in......they're a little "hot"].
I really want to get a look at the Hwy 89 schematic and maybe build one.
I put BC 184L trannys in my Hot Si...great tone....what did you use in yers?
Thanks-
Brian.
Quote from: brian wenzHello Doug--
HAMER! One of the best guitars I've ever owned is my '90 Hamer Archtop [Sunburst]. Best "humbucker" tone I've got [I use Gibson Burstbuckers in it]. Is yours a carved top or flat??
I've got a couple old Super Distorts laying around, too....very good pickups! [I just have to figure out what guitar to use 'em in......they're a little "hot"].
I really want to get a look at the Hwy 89 schematic and maybe build one.
I put BC 184L trannys in my Hot Si...great tone....what did you use in yers?
Thanks-
Brian.
My hamer is flat, with a solid body. I used 2n5089's in my HotSi. Email me at dougbhammond@yahoo.com and I'll send you the Hwy89 schem.
Doug
Hello Hello-
HMmmmmm, I wonder which trannys are quieter???
Check out the new post....I couldn't resist finding out who-plays-what!
Thanks--
Brian.
Use real low-noise transistors, like BC550C, and metal-film resistors. Also nudge the treble on your amp down to a point where hiss is cut but tone isn't lost - usually, there is such a setting.
Brian
Some thoughts
With the Hot Si I reduced the gain of the first stage to about X-10, Also the use of the 10k and 1k were thought about for current noise and gain. The 10 C R is the input to the FF section so it works with the 47K feedback R, The 10Ks in Q2 and Q3 collectors were picked for Ic and lower noise. I tried to optimize for gain,noise,Ic sweet spot at the 9V supply voltage.
try different transistors. I bought a bag of 2n3904s all I used are noisy. I have a few older 2n3904s different company very quiet. The 2n5088 I have are quiet. Remember we are using high gains so any problem with noise in a transistor will be noted.
I find carbom film to be almost as quiet as metal film resistors. There is alot of gain in this type of circuit so layout and transistors use should make a big difference.
2n4401s are very low noise and lower gain often used as MM pre pre amps for HiFi I believe.
Gus
A low noise JFET buffer at the input might help a bit.
Quote2n4401s are very low noise and lower gain often used as MM
These seem to (just) find a Niche for MM cartridges. They might be OK for Q2 and Q3, the difference between 2N4401's and 2N508x's in those positions could come down to specific transistors. For Q1 2N5089's would be best.
Hello Hello--
Thanks Gus and Boofhead for the tips on the trannys! The BC184L that I used seem to be pretty quiet but I guess it doesn't hurt to check others out. The "hiss" problems with a high-gain pedal through a tube amp that is already cranked are much more obvious and problematic then through a Twin Reverb set on "3" , so I have to use appropriate circuits that are tweaked for the occasion.
Thanks to everybody so far!
Brian.
Quote from: brian wenzHello Hello--
Thanks Gus and Boofhead for the tips on the trannys! The BC184L that I used seem to be pretty quiet but I guess it doesn't hurt to check others out. The "hiss" problems with a high-gain pedal through a tube amp that is already cranked are much more obvious and problematic then through a Twin Reverb set on "3" , so I have to use appropriate circuits that are tweaked for the occasion.
Thanks to everybody so far!
Brian.
I tried the HotSi through my cranked FireFly and found a use for the really low gain settings on the HotSi. :D I have done a minor tweak to the amp (and have a new speaker) so I need to try it again. All I can say is, this fuzz box is fantastic through my clean transistor amp. Through a cranked tube amp, though, it's gonna be a ferocious amt of gain. It has to be reined in somewhat to be useful for me. So far what I've found is that lower amts of amp gain are going to work better with it.
I like my Easy Face better in this situation, but in all honesty, the best pedal setup I have found for this amp has been Gus's NPN Boost. I used a 2n5088 transistor and this is the roundest, smoothest violin tone I have ever heard. It is truly a thing of beauty and I have a hard time putting down my guitar when I'm using it. I don't use the booster channel on the amp with it, so it's more like a cranked vintage marshall and the NPN Boost just makes it sing. Forget the Ge stuff, fuzz faces, etc, -this- is one of the ultimate "gotta have" tones for me. I'll have to do a sound clip of this at some point.
Doug
Hullo Doug--
Yeah, something like the Hot Si [for me, anyway] seems to work better as low-to-medium gain kick-in-the-ass for an already gainy amp setting 'cuz the TONE of it is really quite good. I've found that a Vox Tonebender works better then a Fuzz Face circuit for getting the older, 60's type [super-charged Yardbirds] sound at higher volumes [WAY to much bass from a stock FF...].
I agree about the NPN Boost. A good, single tranny booster in the front end of a good amp is killer. Have you tried any BC trannys in yer NPN??
I like my germ and silicon Rangemaster clones for some stuff, too.
Thanks-
Brian.
Hullo Doug--
Yeah, something like the Hot Si [for me, anyway] seems to work better as low-to-medium gain kick-in-the-ass for an already gainy amp setting 'cuz the TONE of it is really quite good. I've found that a Vox Tonebender works better then a Fuzz Face circuit for getting the older, 60's type [super-charged Yardbirds] sound at higher volumes [WAY to much bass from a stock FF...].
I agree about the NPN Boost. A good, single tranny booster in the front end of a good amp is killer. Have you tried any BC trannys in yer NPN??
I like my germ and silicon Rangemaster clones for some stuff, too.
Thanks-
Brian.