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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: smoguzbenjamin on March 12, 2004, 02:23:02 PM

Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 12, 2004, 02:23:02 PM
My dad just delivered my birthday present, despite my dad acting all wierd, I now have a digital temperature controlled soldering iron! But, it has some wierd solder with it. It's Sn60 Pb38 Cu2.... copper solder? Strange... Does anyone have any experience with this stuff? :?
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on March 12, 2004, 03:18:15 PM
Congratulations on your new soldering iron! :D 8)

I have never used solder with a Cu content, but a little research shows that it has the same melting temperature range that 60/40 does.

When you use it up, get a big spool of small diameter eutectic Sn63/Pb37 or Sn62/Pb36/Ag2 (also eutectic) and that will hold you for a long time.

Take care,
-Peter
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Mark Hammer on March 12, 2004, 03:39:55 PM
And you were all grumbly because your parents weren't there for your birthday!!  See, they WERE thinking of you. :wink:
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 12, 2004, 04:49:27 PM
Mark, my dad was kind of rude though. My girlfriend's brother opened the door and my dad shoved the package into his hands and walked off. I'm happy with the iron but my parents haven't gotten any more sociable. That's what was bugging me. And still is quite frankly, I was gonna ask my dad in for a cup of tea or something but Robin (brother in law) didn't get a word in.

I called my mom afterwards and she actually tried to tell me that I was the one being rude. :roll: She never even congratulated me & my girlfriend, she turned 17 today. A nasty affair with a very cool soldering iron I guess.... Oh well... I'm not going to take too much note of this, it's their own problem that they're acting funny in the end.
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: brett on March 12, 2004, 07:42:34 PM
Hi.  I just finished a roll of 60/38/2 solder.  Round here they call it savbit (save-bit) because it prevents erosion of your tip.  Seemed to work - I used a 500g roll of it (built about 40 effects) without having to re-sharpen the tip on the iron.  

Stay cool, be true to yourself and kind to others.
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: sirkut on March 12, 2004, 08:15:45 PM
Wow. I'm seriously going to have to try some of that solder! I go through more tips than I would care to reveal.
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 13, 2004, 04:39:54 AM
Cool. I still have 60% of a 60/40 roll over, but I think I'll try the 60/38/2 next time I solder anything... Y'know compare them and such... Cool :)
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on March 13, 2004, 05:03:38 AM
Now that you have a good iron, I would suggest buying a 500g spool of Sn63/Pb37 or Sn62/Pb36/Ag2. That will make work soooooooooooooo much easier. It really makes a huge difference. You will always need a second spool for your portable tool box. The 60/40 or 60/38/2 will fill that roll nicely. :)

Take care,
-Peter
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 13, 2004, 05:09:22 AM
Yeah I noticed everyone raving about 63/37 solder. I'll check it out after I get back from London.

I just read the manual it says that the soldering iron is 48W :shock: What's the absolute highest temperature that I can set it to? I did a short test-run yesterday at 275-300 degrees (centigrade), and that worked fine... but I'm curious.
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on March 13, 2004, 05:17:44 AM
I would avoid cooking it. My iron will go to 818°F, but there is no good that can come from that temperature.

The high wattage element is to make the thing heat up fast. The temperature is regulated just like a furnace in a home; by cycling on and off.

You'll want to use a temperature of between roughly 300°C and 400°C.

Take care,
-Peter
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: zachary vex on March 13, 2004, 05:26:16 AM
i'm intrigued by copper-content solder as well.  most of my suppliers don't even offer it yet... perhaps it's the wave to come.

as far as temp settings go, my assembler says he likes slightly cooler settings for small work, soldering leads onto pads around perhaps 650F, and higher settings for heavier work like switches and jacks, perhaps around 750F.  i hope i'm remembering the values correctly... it's late.  but the fire is beautiful and my cat is lounging in front of it purring like a fiend.
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: SaBer on March 13, 2004, 05:27:25 AM
I use about 390 for jacks, plugs and other big things and about 340 for everything else.
In Fahrenheit thats 644 and 734.
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 13, 2004, 05:37:33 AM
Quote from: Peter SnowbergThe high wattage element is to make the thing heat up fast. The temperature is regulated just like a furnace in a home; by cycling on and off.
You're right, it heats up in about 20 seconds :)

Thanks for the recommendations guys, I'll check it out 8)
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on March 13, 2004, 05:37:33 AM
I use 550°F for most small stuff, and I'll dial that up to about 650°F for medium stuff, and finally if I need to solder something really big I'll turn it up to 750°F for the duration of that work and then back down to 550 or 650 as soon as I'm done. If it's going to be a few minutes before I need to solder again, sometimes I'll turn it down to 400-450.

I'll let you do the conversions. ;)

Take care,
-Peter
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 13, 2004, 05:38:48 AM
Thanks :) Wow you must have posted about 10 seconds after I did :lol:
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on March 13, 2004, 05:41:44 AM
I should add one more thing.....

If you are assembly line soldering.... the temps go up by 50-100°F. (i.e. 650-750 is my normal range)
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: zachary vex on March 13, 2004, 05:57:09 AM
i gotta say, those controlled-temp irons are amazing.  you can flip one on and be soldering in a matter of seconds... and the wellers automatically time-out after a bit and save the tips from frying.  great for late-night moments of sudden realization.
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 13, 2004, 06:06:18 AM
As far as I know they're also very expensive :mrgreen:
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: zachary vex on March 13, 2004, 06:15:32 AM
well once you've calculated the cost of replacing all of your fried irons, as well as driving time/money to get new tips, and if you ever end up repairing or building something for someone, i don't think spending $149 for a controlled iron as opposed to $39 for something that makes you struggle every time you need it is really that much of a difference.

you get what you pay for, but the real key is, know what you need.  8^)
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: spongebob on March 13, 2004, 06:19:25 AM
FYI: The European Union will ban (http://europa.eu.int/comm/environment/waste/weee_index.htm) the use of lead and other toxic metals beginning July 2006, so you will have to use Pb-free solder sooner or later, at least here in Europe.

I've seen Sn96Ag4 solder, but it's bloody expensive, about five times as expensive as ordinary Pb solder. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff? Melting point will be somewhat higher I guess...
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: zachary vex on March 13, 2004, 06:28:38 AM
bad news.  hmm.  none of these new alloys are as good as lead-based solder in typical construction... what about import goods?
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 13, 2004, 06:34:26 AM
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: WHAT!!! I gotta stock up a few kilos of solder!
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on March 13, 2004, 06:43:19 AM
I've used 1/4 pound of something called 95/5 from Kester, but looking at their site I can't figure out what the alloy is. It just says "lead free electrical rosin core solder" on the spool.

I don't like it at all.

It's probably because I'm spoiled by 63/37. :D

Yes Ben, be sure to pick up a couple of kilos before it goes the way of the dodo bird.

I go for .025" which I believe is 0.62mm.

Erik Miller found a 63/37 that had a much nicer "fume profile" but I don't recall the Kester model number. I've still got most of a pound before I reorder.

Take care,
-Peter
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 13, 2004, 06:50:33 AM
I wonder... what are we going to solder with after lead is banned? It would really suck if the melting point of future solder would be so high that you fry components by soldering them on :evil:
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: spongebob on March 13, 2004, 09:26:55 AM
A list with some lead-free solder alloys:
http://www.kester.com/en-us/leadfree/lfsfaq_alloyselection.aspx

The melting point of silver solder (SnAg) is in the range of 220°C, a little higher than lead solder (around 180°C). I'm more worried about the price, here are some prices (250g, 0.5mm diameter):

Sn60PbCu (lead solder) 3 EUR

Now some lead free stuff:

Sn99Cu 11.30 EUR
Sn96Ag 17.40 EUR
Sn95AgCu 18.95 EUR  :shock:

But I'm quite sure you will get quality SnPb solder on ebay for very little money in 2006! :wink:
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 13, 2004, 09:47:41 AM
There'll probably be people selling stuff under the counter as it were.. the kind of stuff they're not supposed to be selling but they do anyway. Stupid EU. They don't know what they're doing :evil:
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: ExpAnonColin on March 13, 2004, 02:08:02 PM
You know, in terms of saving the bit... I've been using radioshack "high tech solder" for ever, it was my first roll.  I've been through 2 rolls of it on my soldering iron, and the tip was already used before I got it, and the tip is still perfect, in just fine condition, all tinned and everything.  Sometimes I have to get higher temperatures for soldering larger things (700 F) but the tip still remains in tact.  I just always put it in the sponge after I do any sort of joint, and it always remains shiny.

-Colin
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Ansil on March 14, 2004, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: zachary vexwell once you've calculated the cost of replacing all of your fried irons, as well as driving time/money to get new tips, and if you ever end up repairing or building something for someone, i don't think spending $149 for a controlled iron as opposed to $39 for something that makes you struggle every time you need it is really that much of a difference.

you get what you pay for, but the real key is, know what you need.  8^)

i have to agree with you here, i dont use a controled temp like all of you  but i kind of built my own but also i findit depends on the dealer with soldering irons  i have got my last three as replacements... believe it or not from ratshack..  but i still have to get tipss though..
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: brett on March 14, 2004, 08:37:50 PM
QuoteThere'll probably be people selling stuff under the counter as it were.. the kind of stuff they're not supposed to be selling but they do anyway. Stupid EU. They don't know what they're doing
Hi.  I'm a bit of an environmentalist, and I think that a low-lead environment is quite a good thing.  Unfortunately, through the use of leaded petrol, lead batteries, lead pellets in shotguns and other sources, some areas in north america and europe are heavily contaminated with lead.  One of the worst consequences of lead contanination is that it affects the mental development of young children.

OK, banning lead is going to be a nuisance, and expensive for us electronics hobbyists, but can you put a price on having kids grow up happy and healthy?
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on March 14, 2004, 10:12:30 PM
Thank you Brett. Very well said.

Lead poisoning is epidemic in the U.S. (it explains a lot).

Take care,
-Peter
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: ErikMiller on March 14, 2004, 10:35:23 PM
The Kester flux with the less irritating fumes is 405.

It works great, however, it is still less active than 44. With 44 and similar rosins, I could use steel florists' wire as bus wire. 405 can't wet the same material.

No biggie, I went to Radio Shack and bought a spool of real bus wire. The 405 is still my favorite flux.

As far as sacrificing a superior technology "for the sake of the chiiiillllll-drun," I'd be all for it if someone could demonstrate exactly how preventing people from soldering with lead is going to help. Gasoline fumes and paint chips I get; kids can easily come into contact with that, but any kid that decides to eat a piece of electronics equipment* is going to encounter other trouble before the lead can have an effect.

*(especially if it's plugged in).
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Jered on March 14, 2004, 11:08:22 PM
I was under the impression that most of the lead poisoning effecting humans these days was from old lead based paints and any crystal used for food or drinks, ie. crystal decanter, drinking glasses, etc. that lead etches into. Maybe I'm misinformed?
 Jered
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: Peter Snowberg on March 14, 2004, 11:14:36 PM
I think paint chips and tetraethyl lead in gasoline (where still used) are by far the worst, but in places where trash is incinerated it's a slightly different problem.

I don't know about mobility in groundwater from landfills but I would want to be upstream from any landfill anyway. :?

Take care,
-Peter
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: niftydog on March 15, 2004, 05:05:13 PM
also, the savbit solder is supposed to prevent errosion of the copper pads... although I've never experienced such problems.


As for keeping your iorn happy;  make sure that you keep the tip tinned at all times.  ie; leave solder on it when it's in the stand.

Most often, people chew through tips because they clean it before they turn it off.  This allows corosion of the tip itself.  If you leave a coating of solder on the tip when you turn it off, it will protect it.
Title: 60/38/2 solder?
Post by: smoguzbenjamin on March 20, 2004, 06:25:38 AM
I leave it covered in a thin layer of solder all the time, so no real problem there.

Brett, I must admit that your point of view was quite refreshing... I hadn't even stopped to think about that. I'll keep that in mind, but I am by far not the richest guy on earth so I'll still be stocking a kilo or two of lead solder while it's cheap. :lol: Still, you're quite right. Over here I never hear of lead poisoning killing people. It's more drug and alcohol ODs that kill people. Compared to that I have a safe hobby :D