Why not call them something...[Gain Zones?]...
I used to always call them gain stages...like the first pedal if it was a GE7 boost EQ, would be the first Gain stage, then the GE-7 ...INTO...SD-1 would be Gain Stage two and so on.
PROBlem...transistor gain stage already took that name 'gain'
you have to hit two switches to get from Gain 'Zone' 1 ..to Gain Zone 2...very cumbersome and not pro compared to the hitting of 1 switch to get from here: 'gain Zone 1 in this case Ge7' to there: 'gain zone 2 which is the GE-7 driving the SD1'.
I know we all use Gain stages/zones, we need a name for these two separate 'things',
...one would probably be described as an active circuit
...the other would be described as like clean boost or slight OD or Severe Fuzz with a hint of Octave or mid humped OD or ...Gain Zone 1 or 2?
take the TB and FF for expamle
You can get a FF to almost be a TB by adding a booster to the front end of it...or you can get a TB by building a TB...the difference is you can use the TB as a TB, But with the separated first stage and some switching you can get boost...FF... or Boost.into.FF/which is nearly=to TB?
so how you get from zone 1 for rythm to zone 2 for verse to zone 3 for lead can be a real problem if you don't zig: add stages with bypasses, or zag: have extra transistors doing nothing alot of the time.
What really "zogs' though is haveing say Fab tone for lead, Sd1 for rythm and Ge7 for cleaness...then to get from here' to there you have to play tipde tapdat toe stompback footsies with the pedals or have way noisy or skweely going on with both incompatible circuits on...I never found another GainZone pedal [boost/OD/whatever] that liked the FabTone when it was on.
SO...GAINZONE ??? I believe we need something to describe this: many of us use a boost, then an OD, and also a FUZZ [three gainzones at least]
I hope I've conveyed this adequately...
you have to choose between having alot of transistors 'running idle'.or..fancy footsiepedalwerkstoetappin...or lotsa noiseys, if you want multiple gainstage/zones.
The hardest but probably the best way is to havethe gainzone 1 be a Booster circuit that also provides for being the first stage in gainzone 2 which in this case could be the booster ckt into. ....well see that's the hard part...getting even two gain stages that work well and get what you want out of each can be tricky.
I have never gotten it to where I could start with boost, hit 1 switch and get from there to OD, hit an additional switch and be in Deep Fuzz that I like. Always it takes hitting more than two switches to tune in the proper Gianzones...that's where the work is...the hard work is designing 3 gainzones that work well together !!!
I'm not all that about Zone...but there should be one combination of letters that represents this. Anyone with better names for it?
Sorry for the Pete Speak, but there needs to be language for GainZones, as gainstages already depict an active component's circuit.
Gain realms? Gain Dimensions, Quite the conundrum Pete... :p
Regards,
Lone
If it's a functional unit that provides gain, then I guess gain stage is still appropriate. Even though the content may be blasted into little pieces of flaming madness, the output level may still be unity or even less in the case of a Ge output diode clipper.
Despite my name also being Pete, I think I may need a PeteSpeak dictionary. ;) Forgive my ignorance here.... but why not just refer to those macro blocks as "effects"? :o I know.... I'm weird.
"Gain Zone" sounds like a good name for a booster though. 8)
Take care,
-Peter
And still end upn dealing with 'them'...having to hit 2+ switches to go from 'here' to 'there'.
I would like to build a multigainstage multieffect [boost, boost+?, and boost+?+?...first stage being a boost second stage like boost or OD...thei third stage would be a Heavy Fuzz and would work good with [would need] stages 1 and 2 to get the Heavy Fuzz sOUND.
I've tried to do this, and I want to just say Gain stages...but I kind of like the idea for reference in this matter [and anyway]...like small Medium and Large or 1 ,2 , 3 gainzones [the difference between what I'm callin a gainzone and gainstage...gainstage refers to a circuit with an active, gainzone is a description of what type of gain it is 1, 2 or 3...for reference.
Doing a three stage circuit like this takes some work, and not many designs incorporate [Joe Gagan not included] separate gain stages which when combined together. I've tried some of this and it seems a bit trickier to get a 'perfect' enough boost setting will be left on as part of the next two gain [zzones/stages].
See I'm getting tired of the hitting of two + switches to get from 'here' to 'there'.
The other way to do this is incorporate all the circuits into one box, and select separate paths tthat leave some of the active gain stages out of the signal path....this way too has it's problems...more current consumption and also noise problems, after having tried this too, Ive decided that separating them is the way to isolate some of the noise problems...
So I ask...has anyone put efforts into finding just the right circuits combo that work well together to produce three gain*stages [*misleading word]...[say boost, OD, FuzzyOD], so that one could just keep adding [till you run out] stages with bypass switches to get from Boost to OD to Fuzz in a cascading fashion?
The reason for all this is that I find it difficult to get from the perfect boost to the perfect OD without haveing to hit two switches...
and having troubles with the 'other' method of haveing idle circuits in the same box in order to get the 'perfect' soundX [or gainzone2] ...idle circuits that are powered tend to contribute to motorboat noises depending on gain settings etc.
So as you see it starts getting more complex when multiple gain [im just going to say] gainzones are attempted to be had.
I hope you see this...it is rather indepth and hard to follow
Gainzone is an abstract >descriptive< term followed by a number: 1, 2, or 3 [four is another topic]
Gainstage is what it has always been, a reference to an active circuit, or
>solid< item
Hopefully someone will pick up on this idea.
We all already do it...as soon as you run your boost into your OD...or whatever,
The thing is, if there were better language for discussing multiple gainzones , we could better design multicircuit gainstages that work well together.
Gainzone two could be whatever you decide it should be, but would occur in the second chain position...
Forget all that^
I'm talking about coming up with a circuit system that would allow hitting only one switch to get from the perfect boost to the perfect OD or Fuzz...one way to do that is to make the booster part of the OD or Fuzz, making the third part another topic.
You could always make up an external "true bypass" box with four jacks and a switch that would allow you to engage a whole string (or zone) of effects with one stomp. R.G. has some of what you're looking for in his ASMOP documentation too. :D
Take care,
-Peter
I was kind of leaning toward the area of circuit combining...[the hard/fun way]...fewer parts, less draw, more compact, and lots of things to try that havent been tried that much.
I think it would be too cool to have a booster, with a FF for a nice TB type deal, or just FF. Then do another similar deal and A/B, [maybe with an OA part] compare and discuss.
I've done this as have others I'm certain...but not many references to these builds around the net, and not much discussion of them that I've seen...partly I'm simply trying to prompt more interest in building and discussing multistage circuits with fancy switching that I would feel even more Pro' using.
Anyone try this with say the first two stages of a Big Muff on a DPDT?
Or an OA Big Muff with a DPDT for just the first stage modded a bit?
Seems to me this circuit combining would be a logical course of events.
Hello Petemoore,
I understand what you mean. When I look at building projects, I find that the switching is limited -- just on / bypass. And multiple switches to get from A to B or A to C stinks. I guess the only real way around it is to switch with a complex relay system or some IC switches, momentary switches and a little digital logic. They all have there drawbacks. It is just a matter of what you want to live with.
When you talk about gainzones, I assume this hypothetically:
Gainzone 1: Boost
Gainzone 2: Boost + OD
Gainzone 3: Boost + OD + FuzzOD
Each gainzone has its own button and all three effects are either looped together as Peter Snowberg suggested of all effects enclosed in one box.
I think the idea has merit. What you want as an end result (sound quality, compactness) will help define the route you want to go?
Let me know what you think
Thanks,
Rob S.
The answer might be easier than you think. Mount it all in one box but position the three switches 2 1/2"-3" apart so you can hit switches 1 & 2 or switches 2 & 3 with one stomp, or each one individually.
I tried an idea with the Blackfire, splitting both stages with switching and adding a mosfet gain stage on the front of the blackfire but you have to almost redesign each stage because you can't just string stages together that already or heavily distorting. For instance, lets say(1) a minibooster, (2) a fuzz face, (3) a tubescreamer. Any two of these on at the same time might get pretty ugly sounding, feedback, squeeling, etc unless you have your gain setting pretty low or you play a super clean amp(Sceptre). You would be better off maybe switching a by-pass cap on the minibooster in and out for a boost/mild boost respectivly.
Controling gain between stages is critical, and so is controlling the low end or you will end up with gating. Also when using multiple stages the rest of your rig becomes critical also. With three or more gain stages, what sounds good with single coils might not sound to goud with humbuckers.
Don't get me wrong, it can be done but it gets pretty delicate the more stages you tack together, be prepared to spend a whole day huddled over your breadboard finding what works and what doesn't. I've found that the "ten turn" pots can speed up the prototyping even more with circuits like this.
Good luck, keep us informed on your findings.
Jered