Guys,
I've come to respect all of your opinions when it comes to more than just effects. Here is my quandry:
I've been playing guitar for almost 16 years, pretty much by myself. I think I 'm pretty good (and thats what people have been known to say). I need to get out and start playing with others. I'm a big chickenshit though, so I keep finding excuses not to. Well, I want to eliminate all of those excuses and just do it. What I need is a good, inexpensive amp (under $200) that will be loud enough for gigs and deliver the tone I'm looking for. My main distortion is a tubescreamer, and I also like using a Fuzz Face and Danelectro Chicken Salad (univibe copy). I play pretty much strats only (but will add a Les Paul flavor eventually). The types of music I play are Blues and Rock, but I love Reggae as well. I would like a good shimmery clean amp that can get a good amount of gain (think AC/DC) and be loud enough to stay clean for a gig. Any recommendations?
It might be a little over your price range, but you can find a used Peavey Classic 50 for around $300 if you look hard.
Under $200 is tough. You're not liable to find a good sounding amp that will be loud enough to compete with others that will sound good. I'm sure there are a lot of amps in that price range, but I don't know... call me a snob.
It completely depends on your style and the tone you like as well. If you're using a Tube Screamer for your main drive, I feel that you MUST have a decent sounding tube amp to kick over. A solid state amp is more than likely going to sound like crap with a Tube Screamer. That's my experience anyway.
Roger
Well, I guess then some recommendations as to minimum wattage/speaker size and number would help me figure out my options.
The Galaxie 10 Tube Combo from Epiphone is all Tube and puts out 10 watts, would that be enough for small club use?
"Will 10 Watts be enough for small club use?"
That depends on your definition of small club. Also, if you have a drummer - you can forget about it. 10 watts won't even be a buzz in someones ears unless you mic it through a PA in which case it will be plenty but if you want to here yourself on stage you may be out of luck - lot of variables here.
On the other hand if you're doing the coffee house thing 10W should suffice - again minus the drummer or at least a very quiet drummer (but that's really a myth and I don't think they exist).
I'll agree with Rodgre on the Peavy Classic amp. I have a big problem with most Peavy equipment but those classics sound really nice and most people aren't aware of them so you can usually get them for cheap. The few people I've seen play them had really nice tones and ALL of them took the Peavy logo off the front. :D
Some more info to exactly what you're doing may help.
AL
If you're prepared to do some work on the amp yourself, you can easily buy an Electar Tube 10 (10 watt) or Tube 30 (30 watt) from Ebay for under $200 and mod it to suit your needs.
Doug H. has some mods for the Tube 10 on his site.
The Tube 30, from what I've read, might need some more drastic alterations. So be ready to take a challenge....
Just another thought .. If you do end up with a 10 - 15 Watt amp there are a few basic "tricks" that will help make it seem louder. I mentioned earlier to mic it which always works but you may not be able to hear yourself. If you can't hear it and/or you can't mic it put the amp on a table not on the floor. People don't here very well with their knees. A table or chair (with no cushion) works pretty well.
AL
By directing the soundwaves down a channel, you can effectively 'aim the amplitude'.
This increases the percieved loudness in a big way.
I built a sealed enclosure box [small/tight] for a 12'' speaker] as the small end of a plywood megaphone cone.
the output of the conecab [speaker megaphone] compared to a cab made the speaker a whole lot louder when it's aimed at you.
Does something different to the EQ too...this is the worlds first passive amplifier like the way you hold your hands to increase the directionality of shouting. Very effective way to increase amplitude, but unpopular because of the bulky size requirements...they can be stacked like plastic drinking glasses.
You have seen/heard something very similar to this or in a folded horn fashion in PA systems for bass [quite large horn is required for effective bass wave aiming] midrange [more common] and high end [most have a horn of some type].
I mean no disrespect to anyone, but all these suggestions for taking a small, inexpensive amps and doing all these crazy mods to it (and I can guess that rewiring an amp will end up costing more than $200, including the amp) or building a this or that....
well, speaking as a one who has been there, I always kick myself later.... all that work, and I ended up spending more money than I would have buying one more powerful amp and it still doesn't sound like I want it to.
If the Classic 50 is out of your price range, try a Classic 30 and make your drummer use multi-rods. :)
If you have to compete with a "rock" drummer, you will need at least 50 watts (or a 15 watt class A amp that will run you $1000) and maybe a full PA system to mic your amp, depending on how angry the drummer is that day.
Roger
:oops: Don´t hate me but last night read some local musicians forum and there was someone asking the same question. I think they recommended some cheap newish Roland Cube model that has "decent" Cosm modelling stuff. And V-Amp and Pod was of course recommended. But maybe the budget was higher.
Nasse, digital and/or solid state may be the way to go with this one. Getting a sufficiently loud enough tube amp for under $200 is a quite an accomplishment in itself. Roland has some decent stuff out there - if I remember correctly Billy Duffy used a Roland amp on the first few Cult albums.
AL
The Peavey Bandit(newer one) is an incredible, verasitile, LOUD amp. You can do any gig, anywhere with one. Good reverb, good clean all the way to thrash and everything in between.
Regards
RDV
Okay, I will second the Bandit. Not tube, and not as Tube Screamer friendly. Still loud enough. Ray Mason, who is a local hero around here, has been playing a Silvertone through a Bandit for years and he sounds great.... It's his tone, but it works. For bigger shows, he's always mic'd, but coffeehouses and small gigs, he just turns it up.
Roger
Quote from: Rodgre...and not as Tube Screamer friendly...
True, but ironic. I opened up my old 84' Bandit 65 and there must've been 15 or so RC4558 on the board! Gotta tell ya though, my old example loves the Obsidian & Blackfire!
Regards
RDV
"If you have to compete with a "rock" drummer, you will need at least 50 watts (or a 15 watt class A amp that will run you $1000) and maybe a full PA system to mic your amp, depending on how angry the drummer is that day. "
Heh, you never heard the drummer in my band then... I need 100 watts just to hear myself lol
I suppose it depends on what you are playing, and where... For any club/bar that can hold 60 - 100+ people, I found 100w is a must.. but the smaller places, my old Crate 212 60w does the job nice.
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when i was in this posisiotn i used the preamp from a small little practice amp i had.. [don;t laugh .. a blown up champ nothin ever has soundedlike this ] and a fender bass amp. i got both for 225. the bass amp had a 15" speaker in it. but also a smaller one for the highs and it had a nice spread to it. i had it set up with the effects loop to be a channel switcher. utilizing the preamp into the fxloop and guitar straight into the input. with 7 band eq and a parametrci eq too boot and plenty enough wattage to keep up with any drummer, i was in seventh heaven.
i did my whole dreamtheater pahse with this amp set up, and a few pedals. and loved the tone big and juicy.. cleans were fat and sparkly..
damn i wish i had it still
lol
also iknow where ou can get a nice peavey 2*12 i dont' know the moddel right off but its loud and pretty transparent on the clean channel. and the gain sounds great with a booster, [i tried the lpb1] in front of it.had a real hard driving sound to it.
if you want i can see if he still has it, at the music store
Can get non guitar tube stuff for dirt prices.
40w tube amp with speakers for 8$ etc.
Look in old keyboards that have a speaker.
Old stereo amps like Scott Heath Bogen etc.
I use amps that sounded great as is, but did alot of work 'de-console' ing them, building a new case, then spent a bit on re-tubing them with fantastic bang for buck results. I think they sound great. The Heath needs a new top [the replacement tubes sound great and are too tall to fit]...it's not that difficult to de-funkify these units amd mold them for guitar use.
Things to watch out for are like....phono inputs, without these the guitar might not drive the amp enough.
I like these old clean tube amps, with decent speaker and a Fuzz Box they can sound extremely good. They won't do high gain crunch in the same way a high gain amp will.
If you can find one that works...makes output/w no funny noises and seems to hold bias when well warmed, I look for Lbs per Dollar. Something with beefy looking transformers and a few input tubes...say treble and bass controls.
I have a HEath, an RCA Victor, A Dynadit St 70, two that are less than 5w, some of these old amps have really nice transformers, are well designed, built with superb quality, the signal path sees no transistors...
with 'some' work they can be top shelf...it takes time to find them, sort them, debug them, retube them, find the right accessories for them, set them up so they do what you want them to, reliably, but for tuff guts per dollar they're impossible to beat.
Wait a minute...after typing all that...you said AC/DC for less than 200.
None of the above do the high gain tube thing.
one of my Favorite tube amp's are the older Canadian made Traynor's, I have several and they do have a lot of clean headroom plus they just love pedal's, I have a Guitar Mate 1X12 O/B combo that put's out about 20 watts that I paid 150 bucks for, then a 2X12 100w combo I paid 225 for up in Austin at a Pawn Shop, Very loud though and Heavey, I also have a 4X10 combo with 2 EL 34's at 50w that is just the right size for most clubs, think I I paid 125 bucks for it, as with any older amp you need to have the tubes checked and the electrolytic capacitors checked or upgraded, If your into a newer amp check out a Crate Vintage Club 50 1X12 combo, these sound good and I see them sold on YukBay for 250 all the time.
JD
The Traynors are going up now; very hard to find cheap now that people know that they are great amps. I'm using my YRM-1 and it's one of the best amps I have ever used.
I wonder if it is possible to find a used Pignose 40 watter?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4100804119&category=31387
You _might_ be able to find a cheapo Fender Bassman in a used local music store, but the cabinet would cost you.
A Fender Champ can be beautiful (especially if you mod it), but it's not loud enough; you need to mic it.
The Peavy Bandit was a very cool amp. That would work if you can find one.
Finally a soft drummer is possible. We have them here.
50-100 watts? obviously you guys have never played an Emery Sound Super Baby!
6-10 Class A watts, with PLENTY of gain on tap for most (non-metal) rock situations. admittedly outta your price range, JC, but just thought i'd throw it into the conversation.
http://www.emerysound.com/Superbaby.html
I recommend a Tech21 Trademark 60 although it might cost you about $250 to $300 used. It's a nice two channel SS amp with a 12" speaker. The Trademark 10 is also very versatile ($150-$200) but will not compete with a loud drummer alone. Both of these amps have effects loops and XLR outputs for connecting to a PA.
Jun
You *might* be able to find an older-generation Peavey Classic 30 amp for $250 (I assume you want shipping or local tax included in your budget).
My amp is a Peavey Classic 50 4x10, and used it cost me $325 or so, which was -much- lower than anything I could find on Ebay at the time. If you manage to find one of these amps for a good price, they're good gigging amps, and depending on what you already have, you may want to use this instead of your main amp. Incredible bargain... the amp sounds incredible. Mine came to me with the Peavey logo removed, as if the amp was "too good to be a Peavey." Finally, if you're into Spinal Tap, the knobs on this go to 12 instead of 10 :). Love my Classic 50.
Though if you want portability, by all means go for the Classic 30 1x12... I don't lug this 4x10 around any more than I have to :)
Other "bargain" amps I've heard of:
-Sovtek, (Mig 50)
-Crate Vintage Club amps... I've heard non-VC Crate amps are junk, but I've never played out of any Crate besides my friend's little 15W SS practice amp.
-Traynor, although they are indeed getting more expensive
-Various fenders, including the Bassman
Another option that I hope I don't get killed for suggesting is a modeling preamp like a Behringer V-AMP2 or a Line6 POD. If you have access to a PA system, you can throw one of these in with your pedals and not have another thing to lug around, plus you're pretty much equipped to play a variety of styles. I have a V-AMP 2, and while I don't plan on using it for any important gigs, for $80-100 used it's a great practice tool, and is invaluable for recording to a computer in a dorm setting... no way can I crank my Classic 50 without having 20 angry people come yelling at me.
If you don't have easy access to a PA System, however, the V-Amp is less useful and I'd suggest going with a bargain amp.
All the suggestions are greatly appreciated. There are so many options out there, especially if I can afford an extra $100 or so.
I'm prepared for less than perfect tone at my price range. I don't want any more excuses not to be out jamming and clubbing. I figure if I can start earning a little money doing this, I could easily afford a better amp in a year. The Peavey Bandits look like they can be had for as little as $125 (on ebay). If it gets a decent clean, then I can use stompboxes to tweak my sound.
I haven't come close to making up my mind yet, so any more ideas are welcome and thanks!
JC, i'm throwing my hat in for the peavey bandit also (the special is even better, same series, more watts). it really is a workhorse and it's loud as hell. i used one for years in punk rock bands and it always kept up with anything. and it did have an ok clean sound. it's probably the most amp you can get in your price range (unless you get lucky). there's my 2 cents. jon
Quote from: aronFinally a soft drummer is possible. We have them here.
Gee, it really IS paradise!
QuoteI recommend a Tech21 Trademark 60 although it might cost you about $250 to $300 used. It's a nice two channel SS amp with a 12" speaker.
Yes, if he could find this, it would work.
The Pignose 40 watt combo would work as well.
QuoteGee, it really IS paradise!
Depends. This is an extremely over-generalization, but over here, you will find extremely skilled musicians of all types. A lot of the guitar players can read and chart out music. In addition, the bass players are amazing. Great skill and work ethic.
OTOH, you will find less "angry" (for lack of words) players. What I mean is "intense", fast, players. I guess what I mean is that you will not find Dream Theater here or similar fusion/progressive etc.... players.
You can tell them to play with aggression, but it's different.
Anyway, I'm getting mellow too so I shouldn't talk :roll:
Stick with tubes. In the long run you'll be a lot more satisfied with the sound. Unless you're a jazz player who wants a clean HiFi sound tubes are much easier to work with.
I second the Peavey Classic 30 as a good choice too. I used one on a gig in a decent size club in New York and it was pretty good. A little thinner than my Fenders but still not bad.
OK, I'm down to deciding between the Bandit and the Classic 30. On the one hand, I'm very limited by price, on the other hand, I love tube sound.
I'll have to try them both out at a music store and see if I can live with the Bandit.
The PEavey 50/50 and also the 60/60 power amps.
They tend to go cheap [I got one] because there's no preamp.
You can build something to drive one of these hard I think.
also Ppl like their Mono guitar amps [most of the available cabs are mono]
The one I had, I used for stereo playback, analog and digital instrument amplification and PA use. It performed very well, providing great sounding reliable service.
I like keepers', I've had lots and lots of 'stuff too. alot of that stuff sat, sat and sold after losing an A/B test or two. Take a heed from my mistakes, it will serve you well...try to stick to better/best rated products, save your time and money for days when you're darn certain a cash outlay won't be regretted for a long long time.
IMO starting with a couple high quality output tubes [or four], and a couple better quality speakers is sound advice...get this part right and you will be using it religiously...
Go for tubes you know you can get, and ppl work with regularly like EL34's 6L6's EL84's etc.
Not having a bunch of input tubes has it's advantages.
Having a stereo amp is cool...I dont think I ever bridged the PV...don't know if it does..I think you supposed to be able to run different ohmage loads off each side, I did anyway and found it handy for running speakers of different ohmage on the same signal.
Pretty dang nice bang for buk amp, one side of it gets pretty darn loud..even a Fuzz with strong output would get it going, but to get it really cooking you'd need to figure out some kind of preamp...more Fun and Flexiability to be had There!!!
the sovtek mig-50.....it's an all tube head with a real gutsy sound.
it'll cost around 200 bucks....if you have a speaker cab, you cant
beat it for the price.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=sovtek+mig
Ok, so I'm a blues player and bias'ed (and some would say my transistors are not biased correctly :) ), but you might want to see if you can locate a fender blues jr and give it a whirl. The guys gig with them at the small clubs I play all the time and at only 15 watts its a loud little amp, cleans up well and can get gritty when needed (I'm told its a class A amp and thats why its loud for its size, but I don't know that for fact because unless one bit me and had a class A shirt on I wouldnt know). Depends on the club too as some have eluded to, at the clubs I play, my 30watt crate vintage tube 30 gets me in all sorts of trouble and I am asked to turn down frequently (specially if I use any of the effects I build from here, the rangemaster in particular drew such reaction, guess they ain't beano fans haha). Good luck with your amp finds..
Regards,
Lone
Ps: Another plus of the B Jr, its LIGHT, particularly important if you have to slep it up flights of stairs like some clubs I've played have, but then again I'm old... :D