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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: lightningfingers on April 26, 2004, 12:55:56 PM

Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: lightningfingers on April 26, 2004, 12:55:56 PM
why is it that a guitar has a *tremolo* arm when this provides detunability and not that volume thing  that tremolo pedals do
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: DouglAss on April 26, 2004, 01:10:36 PM
Just a guess here.
But maybe the terms was chosen to differentiate it from the finger vibrato, which guitar players were used to.

Sort of like current flow vs electron flowl after a while, you just accept it
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: puretube on April 26, 2004, 01:26:44 PM
because Leo Fender used that phrase (wrongly) first.
(either he mixed it up, was mis-informed, or had some reason for it, like DouglAss mentioned or similar)
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: The Tone God on April 26, 2004, 01:56:31 PM
Tremolo is a change in amplitude. Vibrato is a change in frequency. The circuits use in most amps is tremolo. The arm on a guitar is vibrato. I correct people on a regular basis about this especially when they point to my Bigsby and called it a "whammy bar". Thats just insulting. :x

Andrew
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: DouglAss on April 26, 2004, 02:14:08 PM
I like "whammy bar", I think it's kind of fun and clear

It gets even more confusing when you are talking to other instruments, like voice, because pitch volume and tone interact so their vibrato tends to have variation in all 3 elements.
Title: Tremolo
Post by: StephenGiles on April 26, 2004, 02:14:53 PM
What's that fast plucking of mandolins called - Tremolo isn't it?
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: RDV on April 26, 2004, 02:30:49 PM
Well, then what's tremelo?

RDV
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: puretube on April 26, 2004, 03:23:52 PM
the " Tremeloes` " greatest hit was: "Silence is Golden" ...
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: Paul Marossy on April 26, 2004, 03:57:28 PM
People constantly use vibrato and tremolo interchangeably, when in fact they are two completely different things, as has already been pointed out. You woul think that the guitar manufacturers would have figuered this out by now... maybe it could be a sales gimmick... Fender Super Strat with vibrato!?

Some misinformation just refuses to die!

I guess the two can sound sort of similar since the volume does fluctuate a little bit when you use the vibrato (AKA "whammy bar"). Maybe that is why this persists. I dunno.

I think the fast pickin' on a mandolin would be called "legato". Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: puretube on April 26, 2004, 04:07:12 PM
legato imho is "bound", i.e. "sliding" from one pitch to the next.
Mandolin is more "staccato" (?)
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: Paul Marossy on April 26, 2004, 04:10:53 PM
OK, so I'm wrong on Legato. But, Staccato is a sudden stop... everything is short and distinct. It's hard to describe. I can't think of a song that would demonstrate it...

Legato
(italian, meaning 'bound together')
A direction to play smoothly, so that all the notes run into one another. The opposite of staccato.

Staccato
(Italian meaning 'detached')
A direction, marked by a dot over the note, that it should be held for less than its full length. The opposite of legato

Maybe it would simply be this:

Prestissimo
(Italian)
Very fast.
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: puretube on April 26, 2004, 04:22:06 PM
therefore my question mark at the staccato...

so the latter would be the "chopping" trem-stompbox feature.
(song: Crimson & Clover / Tommy James & the Shondells)
Title: Brian Poole & the Tremeloes
Post by: StephenGiles on April 26, 2004, 04:22:49 PM
Now that was a great band to see 40 years ago!
Title: Re: Tremolo
Post by: puretube on April 26, 2004, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: StephenGilesWhat's that fast plucking of mandolins called - Tremolo isn't it?

that fast plucking tremolating (tremulant) sounds were emulated in elctronic organs in the 50s and sixties, and called: "mandolin effect"...
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: Paul Marossy on April 26, 2004, 04:38:15 PM
That tremulant sound could just be part of the player's technique - alternating how hard you are strumming/picking can kind of give that effect. I can do something similar to this on my acoustic guitar.

puretube- I wasn't getting on your case, I was just trying to figure this out myself...  8)
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: RDV on April 26, 2004, 04:41:45 PM
...wah-wah bar
...wiggle-stick
...string stretcher
...boo-boo stick
...wang bar

RDV
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: puretube on April 26, 2004, 04:45:38 PM
Hey Paul: no offence taken at all,
I`m still searching myself for correct answers...

I guess the mistake comes from old dictionairies, where "Tremolo" was
a "vibrating" sound. (or vibration in volume) (but not: "vibrato")
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: The Tone God on April 26, 2004, 04:49:26 PM
"Whammy bar" is just a term that bugs me. Its not really a musical term. It reminds me of the 80s when ever guitar had a floyd rose, big racks were in, and you were expect to play really fast.

The fast picking of a mandolin would not be considered tremolo since its not changing the amplitude of the note. What you are changing is the length of the note. The note is allowed to initally ring then is muted by some means be it tounge blocking with brass and woodwinds or in the case of string instruments, like the guitar, palm muting. This type of note playing is called staccato. Legato is if you let the notes ring for the full note value and minimize the transistion time between notes.

Individual notes to be played staccato would have a dot over the note or for a length of notes would have "st" in the header. Notes to be strung together would have an arc across the notes. Perhaps with a "lg" in the header to clarify.

Andrew
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: Paul Marossy on April 26, 2004, 05:33:03 PM
"The fast picking of a mandolin would not be considered tremolo since its not changing the amplitude of the note."

It could be considered tremolo-ish if you varied the volume of your picking/strumming by virtue of technique. This is not impossible. I can do something similar to this with my acoustic guitar. A really good mandolin player could pull that off without too much trouble. Granted, it won't sound regular like an electronic tremolo would, but it still could technically be called tremolo. Gee, am I splitting hairs here?  :oops:

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Title: To add to the list...
Post by: Somicide on April 26, 2004, 05:36:21 PM
After seeing RDV's list, i thought i'd throw what my drummer's dubbed my vibrato out:

Guitar Pee-Pee

I'm done.  Sorry.
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: puretube on April 26, 2004, 05:51:28 PM
...our band lost a lot of drummers over the past 21 years...  (incontinuendo ??? )
Title: Re: Tremolo
Post by: DouglAss on April 26, 2004, 06:14:40 PM
Quote from: StephenGilesWhat's that fast plucking of mandolins called - Tremolo isn't it?

Yes, on classical guitar as well, the term in that sense predates electronics -you are basically plucking in regular intervals, so you are providing a mechanical "stutter" effect to the phrase

Everyone's college favorite was Carcassi number 9


In a sense, you could consider a stutter box an electronic simulation of that mechanical technique -- if you were going to go on precedence alone  :P


We're hip deep in our own BS now boys!
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: Hal on April 26, 2004, 06:57:00 PM
not only on a mandolin - "trem picking" also exists on guitar !  a la 80's speed metal, angle the pick and pick a single note, or patern of notes _very_ quickly.  usually on the higher strings, but not always.  Ususally high gain.  

tremolo picking ?
Title: very OT: uses of the word tremolo
Post by: Paul Marossy on April 26, 2004, 07:21:27 PM
A "guitar pee-pee"?! Yet another phallic symbol...  :shock:
Well, to some anyway.  :wink:
Title: Re: Tremolo
Post by: Eric H on April 27, 2004, 01:38:34 AM
Quote from: StephenGilesWhat's that fast plucking of mandolins called - Tremolo isn't it?
Probably

Don't know about mandolins but tremolo is the classical guitar technique where you play  on one treble-string with the picking fingers VERY rapidly --like a banjo-roll, but longer and more precise, the thumb usually picks out a melody on the bass. --you hear it in some Spanish pieces and Flamenco. When you see it done right it's a jaw-dropper .

-Eric