Hey all,
What do you lot think of the TS series? Is it all hype, or is it really a class pedal? And is the buffered bypass really a problem? Or is it quite transparent.
Just trying to get too grips with this Tubescreamer for/against madness,
Alex
Its a soft clipping, slightly midrange humped, 'distortion' effect with alot of output.
Nothing sounds exactly like a vintags TS. Nothing even comes close.
What does a vintage TS sound like?
I think most people use the standard produces by a D/A converter [or magnetic phonogrash] source, SS pre and power amp, and a 2 way or 3 way 'hi-fi' speaker system [Home stereo or boombox] with a studio doctored recording of SRV playing a strat guitar through an extremely [and unusually] modded Twin amp, with PA type speakers in it.
With the right OA in it, [the one with the Dead guys fingerprints on it], this thing will let you drive your amp down the road.
Ok nuff mythbustin'...Try an ODIE, Blue Magic, or just a well voiced booster or two [Jfet or Mosfet...] into a half cranked tube amp.
I've been using an SD-1 alot lately. I like the way it sounds with the front end pushed with an OS comp, a Fetzer Valve, etc.
Build your Mojo stuffed TS, with OA and Diodes sockets...and forget about that thing on the net that was buried with it's owner, dug up, verified as the 'only' one that ever worked like itself, and priced higher than the decent guitar you'll need to test any TS with any hint of conviction.
Thing was probly modded anyway...I know I would.
I bought a reissue TS9 some years ago, and was not particularly impressed with the sound, nothing special.
Then I modded it with different clipping diodes, different op-amp, did the resistor changes, swapped the electrolytic coupling caps for polyester, and it was totally transformed. Now I use it regularly into the clean channel of my amp for that singing sustained creamy lead sound. Cuts through the rest of the band like a knife.
I bet with the right popular musician endorsment people would buy "crap". Actual crap. Srv could have made anything sound good. I used to buy into the myth /this and that.. No more for me. I now only care what sounds good to my ears. It just so happends the Ts-808 is not my thing--its cool though. NO deity. :lol:
TSs do have a good sound. But so do other circuits. I really like the Blues Breaker (which is a broadly similar circuit).
For me, it's a good working distortion pedal. Not INTRINSICALLY better or worse than a fuzzface, a bazz fuss or a distortion+. Just different and sweet in its own way.
QuoteI bet with the right popular musician endorsment people would buy "crap". Actual crap.
That's been done. Labelled "Pure artists's shit", the original cans now sell for tens of thousands of dollars. I forget the artist's name, but it's in a book I have on modern art.
Two comments to make:
1. Folks regularly forget / ignore the fact that most famous TS proponents used them as preamps to drive a following valve amp, and rarely for their innate overdrive sound.
2. Too many bedroom guitarists don't understand the difference in tone between bedroom loud and stage loud, having never got on stage. So, they condemn the TS because it sounds weedy through their 15W Marshall, and rave about digital pedals that sound great at low volumes, but utter crap at stage levels.
Just wish I knew how to add effective separate Treble and Bass controls to the TS series, what a difference that would make
The Nobels ODR-S is a great overdrive with a 3-band EQ. It sells in the states for around $80 and in my opinion is a much better pedal than a stock tube screamer.
AL
Today I think it is just hype. There are lot of clones and other OD's that can do the TS thing and more.
Back in its day there weren't too many different OD's like today so it pretty much was one of the top dogs.
I love tubescreamers but there still is entirely to much hype about them. It's my personal favorite as far as overdrives go but I still expect that someday I'm gonna build a blue magic pedal like JD suggests at GGG. Heck...for something similar to a tubescreamer but with a slightly different twist you can always buy a voodoo labs sparkle drive...but it's way more fun to try to build something.
As an aside...My third project was an ampeg scrambler(strange ring modulation octave thing) which by itself I'm not very impressed with how my build turned out but if you put a tubescreamer, orange squeezer or maybe a clean boost in front of it...then it sounds nice...really nice IMHO with the tubescreamer.
Has anyone here put a warp control on a tubescreamer clone?
I think a Tubescreamer is a damn nice sounding effect.
That doesn't mean there aren't better OD's. I think the appeal to the TS is that it was one of the first of its kind. Think about it, that was a quite innovative and novel approach the first time somebody used the soft clipping characteristics of a non-inverting opamp stage with head-toe diodes. It sounds great when driving a valve amp at high volume. I generally like to tune my amp to the sweet spot where the TS is overdriving the preamp, and the preamp is starting to break up the power amp. Unfortunately, I have never been in a recording set-up where this can be done effectively, but I was playing in a venue for a while where I could put the amp in a different room and mic it into my DSP...and crank the amp. That was the sweetest tone I have ever had (not that I'm a tone god or anything--pun intended)
People have only improved on that since then. Therefore, I think there are many "damn nice sounding" ODs out there, and the TS series is one of them.
Bit of both to be honest, and Ibanez clearly know it. There are people who are paying big money (in relative terms) for a TS-808 RI and then modding them for even more money when they could get a TS-9 much cheaper.
I like them myself, and have 2 TS-5s, a TS-9 and an ST-9 (Which shits on a stock TS-9 from a great height :) ) They do what they do very well, and so long as you know what to expect you won't be disappointed. It cracks me up when you see the HC reviews that say I couldn't get a Korn sound, or Limp Bizkit or whoever.
I have actually used one for metal with some success though. If you get your amp settings right with a slight mid scoop then the lead sound with a TS can be awesome. But trying to use a TS as a high gain distortion pedal just doesn't work. Light OD/dist sound OK to good depending on the amp, and as a solo booster the TS is the yardstick by which all others are measured.
Quote from: petemoorewith a studio doctored recording of SRV playing a strat guitar through an extremely [and unusually] modded Twin amp, with PA type speakers in it.
I'm pretty sure Stevie Ray used a AC 30 in the studio for his sound.
And Ge_Whiz pretty much hit the nail on the head with his post. The only thing that bothers me about it is the noise it makes with single coil pickups.
There are much better OD's you can build available from people right here on this forum.
Jered
Going through my local music store the other day, seeing how some chorus pedal sounds, and i see an Ibanez Tube KING, the sucker had a tube in it, and i though, @#$% yea, awesome, i wonder if the other forum guys have seen this?
sad, i know.
anyone heard this sucker though?
Ibanez Tube King haz been around for a while now.
Personally I hate the TS808. Here in Seattle the Guitar Center Seattle store is kind of like one of their flagships like the Hollywood store. Alot of vintage stuff! I have had many friends that worked there. After store closing one night we sat down and tried out 5 TS808 they had in the store. We tried them with a Boogie MK1, Marshall blues Breaker amp, Fender amps (tube), a Mareshall plexi and JCM800 and an AC30TB. I hated it! I tried all 5 cause was wanting to buy one cause the "hype" had got me. I purely hated them. TO me it is all hype from SRV!!! I dig the sound actually of the Matchbox on Runoffgroove and Thunderchief. Matchbox is my fav sound of the two. I really regret buying hundreds of dollars of vintage trannys. The Matchbox pretty much has the sound I wanted on OD/fuzz type boxes. I have a rule that I adhere to and it has worked for me for along time. Nothing with Chips or Opamps will make it to my pedal board as far a boosts and OD/fuzz, wah stuff. I have never heard anything with a chip or opamp that made me happy.
Quote"...2 TS-5s, a TS-9 and an ST-9..."
ST-9? A 'Screamtuber'? :wink:
Quote from: Ge_WhizQuote"...2 TS-5s, a TS-9 and an ST-9..."
ST-9? A 'Screamtuber'? :wink:
(http://www.btinternet.com/~elfury/9s.jpg)
Super Tube Screamer with additional mid boost on the far right of the pic with a TS-9, CS-9, FL-9 and SD-9 also pictured
well there must be something to them because I remember reading an interview with SRV where he said that he hadn't found anything better than a TS even though he was constantly looking.
No doubt a lot of it has to do with the amp you are using, but artists as disparate as Kirk Hammet, the guitarist from Pearl Jam use the TS as well as blues guys like SRV and Kenny Wayne Shepherd, so I think there is more than just hype going on.
I definitely think a tube amp is part of the tone recipe, using the TS-9 to boost as well as create overdrive of it's own, to clean up roll the guitar volume down rather than switch off the TS.
just my $AUD0.02 ...
well there must be something to them because I remember reading an interview with SRV where he said that he hadn't found anything better than a TS even though he was constantly looking.
No doubt a lot of it has to do with the amp you are using, but artists as disparate as Kirk Hammet, the guitarist from Pearl Jam use the TS as well as blues guys like SRV and Kenny Wayne Shepherd, so I think there is more than just hype going on.
I definitely think a tube amp is part of the tone recipe, using the TS-9 to boost as well as create overdrive of it's own, to clean up roll the guitar volume down rather than switch off the TS.
just my $AUD0.02 ...
dont forget srv had his modded....
i think it has alot to do with the person's chops.
i have a friend that plays through a fender blues jr and a
boss sd-1. it's sounds wonderful.
there are too many variables involved to say that a particular
stompbox is the bomb.
each amp, (especially tube) will sound different from one another.
dont forget srv's amps were modded quite heavily as well.
it all boils down to finding the right stompbox-amp recipe for
you and what you are going for.
I like the sounds of a TS, ODiE, BLue Magic...the latter two weren't around when the 'mangod' ...lol...was doin' his testing.
TS will sound different through your amp than SRV's.
Heavily modded is an understatement, I read bout the Twins...uh...I think Leo would not endorse what V.man was using as anything remotely 'Twin' like. Yes some of the preamp was similar or same...once you get to the output section and speakers...all 'convention' goes right out the window.
Most amps are designed to break up or give warm distortion when cranked...these amps were super built, to Not Distort at all like 'conventional' tube approaches.
This buying into TS as the way to achiefe [excuse me] SRV type tone...
if fewer people bought into it, it would be a real good joke....seriously, a TS is a very small part of what was going on tonewise there...ultra super high amplitude was reported to have something to do with it. Sound wave pressure levels that could rip your unprotected [or protected] eardrums out...super modded super and twin and marshall and and other amps all stacked in rows and columns to the point of becoming a room sized microwave oven...engineers had to come in to figure out the squeal, and determined there were so many electrons flying around that microwave transmission was occurring, and steel cages were installed around each amp unit to shield/isolate it's transmissions from the rest of the amps to cancel enough microwave to eliminate the squeal....a sound that 'literally provides 'warmth'...lol.
So basically a TS is a mild OD. [that was a period].
Playing with extreme loudness [like in Godzilla's trachea] can be alot of fun, even if you are half deaf after...
I've never heard of amps built like the ultra super clean power tanks that were purportedly used live and in studio with TS to get 'that' tone.
If I had 'that', I'd rarely get to 'use' it anyway...I believe without the proper damping, these were extremely powerful 'Police Magnets'
I had a 100w Marshall Super Lead, could attract cops from blocks away...a few minutes with that thing cranked would draw cops in, in no time...
Valve audio amps emitting microwaves? Now I HAVE heard all the SRV myths! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Want to know what was going on with SRV's tone?
http://www.tonequest.com/pdf_pubs/samples/TQRDiaz.pdf
Interesting and enlightening interview with Cesar Diaz, the architect of SRV's sound.
Doug
Amps, Pedal's,Guitar, Cords, Power supply whether it be 117 v. a.c. or 9v. d.c., string's, P/U's, your Heart, your head, and last but not least is your hands and hearing, that is what makes records that sell by the mil.
Not hype, not BS, for one to say this is the only way, is for one to be lost in the night, for each style of music there are certian combo's that work better, Let your ears do your decideing, you'll be much happier and play the same rig longer, that's how you learn it's weakness's and it's strong point's, learn to respect a person that has God given talent, some of us have to struggle along with what He gave us,Same goes for building these great sounding pedal's, Thank God for these guy's on the forum that have the Talent and are willing to share that with the rest of us.. :D
JD
The TS808 is all there is. Throw out all the rest!! :wink:
The original Tube Screamer TS808/TS9 is a nice circuit, even as a stand alone unit, IMO. It really shines when helping to push an amplifier's preamp section.
Unfortunately, because some famous people (like SRV) have used it, some people have elevated it to mythological status. And most people buy right into the hype, and will pay $300-400 for one of these things.
That aside, I still think it is a good sounding circuit, all things considered. Yes, there are other overdrives out there that some may like better, but the TS is a classic. Just like a Fuzz Face is a classic.
Here is what you must always, always, always understand about diode-clipping overdrives, kiddies. They depend upon 4 things:
1) Input signal
2) Gain applied internally
3) Clipping action given by diodes
4) Tone shaping
I am going to say in the absence of any field testing that I'll bet TS-808's sound bland and lifeless with Danelectro guitars, and that they sound awful with guitars packing heavily overwound gonzo-output humbuckers.
Why is this? Because the pedal does what it does by:
a) using a clipping element/strategy that demands a certain signal level to yield a certain degree of clipping
b) applying as much gain as is needed to bring most anticipated signals up to that level
c) applying the sort of tone shaping needed to yield a certain tonal/harmonic balance, given what it thinks is coming in and how it intends to clip
If you take a stock one and do not abide by any of the assumptions, it will sound remarkably unsatisfying, the same way that a souflé made precisely as it should be tastes wonderful and a soufflé made in any other way is essentially an omelette.
I made myself one, to spec (JRC4558D, etc.), and hated it. The following year I finally purchased a single-coil equipped guitar that did NOT have an on-board preamp like the one I had been using previously, and suddenly the pedal came to life.
Context, context, context.
The pedal itself is no magic weapon or midas touch on its own. It is best to think of it as an "arena" where a certain combinationof other elements can produce a certain sound which many find expressive and pleasing. Remember, few if any are asking the question "Is SRV's tone lousy or decent?" Rather, they ask about the pedal itself. My feeling is the diversity of opinions people have stem from the inconsistency in the conditions in which it is used.
Good points, Mark. Context really is the key on this one. Mine sounds good with my equipment, but maybe it wouldn't sound that good if I were to change my amp or something. When I say stand alone, I mean into an amplifier - one that's already on the verge. It might not sound so good straight into a board, though...
I guess that's why there are so many overdrive/dist circuits out there. Some people will hate one circuit and others will love that same circuit.
Well put, Mark. To me, it's a well designed, well mannered, OD with a strong mid-hump. Nothing more or less. Mass produced effects attempt to try to please everyone's playing and equipment, but can't. I'm not a big TS fan, even though I've spent alot of time testing mods. To me, it was more of a good training in organized testing.
Many of the great players put alot of time playing and learning with nothing between their amp and guitar. Besides the hands, heart, and feel, they know their amp's and guitar's tonal posibilities inside out. They approach effects different from someone who starts using pedals as soon as they start playing. They approach them as effects, not the main source of their sound or style. The players who started in the 50's and 60's kinda had an advantage because there weren't many effects to distract them. Besides playing, they learned how to use their amps and guitars. Doesn't really mater if your gear is modded or not. The more you get inside your amp and axe, the more you find yourself adjusting and using your effects differently.
I probably didn't word this the best way, but I think you know what I'm trying to say. If you devote a couple of days or a week of every month to just play straight without effects, and exploring more of your guitar and amp settings, you'll probably find that your effect usage, and how you set them improves. It's similar to the old advice of laying down your electric for an acoustic during practice. With the heavy strings and no amp, any sloppiness in your playing is not hidden. It forces you to clean up your technique and playing. Same with effects, but instead, you're leaving them out to improve your basic tone finding/adjusting skills .
Doug
That TQR / Diaz article is well worth a read - in fact, I downloaded it for future reference. Here's a guy who knows what mojo is made of, and is prepared to employ a scientific and measurement-based approach to explain it.
The article rang so many bells that I wandered off and pulled out my 25+ year-old 'curly' cable. It's lain unused in a guitar case for nearly twenty years - it's the only reliable and virtually noiseless curly that I ever owned, and hence the only one I still possess. I A/B tested it with two guitars and my Frontman 25R, and guess what? Even my tin ear could tell the difference - the extra capacitance of the curly (or something) definitely does give a slightly mellower tone that ODs in a different way (the distortion in the 25R is basically a TS stage).
I'll have to use it at the next gig - once again I'll be surrounded by 15-year-old shredders asking, "What the f*** is THAT?" :wink:
its not that far fetched that tubes emit microwaves...the grid accelerates electrons toward the plate, or away from the plate...that would create electromagnetic radiation???
anyway, my friend picked up a new Hyper TS-9 - the 4 knob one - and I really like it. It sounds _awesome_ on his dad's vintage priceton :-D. Smooth, balanced drive. Nothing harsh at all about it.
That article was interesting. 8)
Diaz is a character to say the least. :)
I only use curly cables. You can still buy em from radio shack.
I don't think there is much magic in the stock TS. The magic for Stevie came from some of the best amps ever made being pushed into more OD from the TS. You cannot get that tone with a little Peavey amp and a STOCK TS. It ain't happening. I figured out how to get close to it though. ;)
It involves the mods on Aaron's mods page. I used 5 (3 on one side and 2 on the other) diodes for clipping (Analogman's silver mod along with the asynchronous clipping) , did the TS808 mods, used a Burr Brown opamp, did all of the Keeley cap mods, as well as Frank Clarke's more/less distortion mods. NOW, this is the God of OD! Holy crap, its as if Zeus himself is raining down lighting bolts of tone upon my amplifier from the dizzying heights of Mount Olympus! LOL