Sorry for getting all political and whatnot, but I thought I'd share this to you all as it was shared to me. Now, as a college student, this kind of news freaks me out.
http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2004-05-14/cols_ventura.html
Don't shoot the messenger :P .
BTW, this is a great forum with great people! Keep it up!
Take it, to a degree, with a grain of salt. Most of these type of articles are slanted towards the right or left, depending on the author or paper. It's amazing how you can even quote factual numbers, and still manage to put a spin on it for your own agenda. What facts you do and don't omit is how you make your journalistic point. And I haven't even commented on the actual topic. It's easy to see how this would upset someone your age. You'd have to read from several sources on this, and put it all through the BS sifter, to get a good fix on what's what.
A forum like this is kinda like a bar: religion and politics usually are better off left outside.
Why it's easy for any of us to go on a soapbox about this, rightwing or leftwing, it would nothing more than the same thing we accuse politician's and the media of: "Frontin". Why? Because Politics, and the World, itself, is a lot more complicated than any formite could sum up in a thread, plain and simple.
True, so true. Thanks for the reply. Just thought people would like to see it for the sake of seeing it.
Quote from: Fret Wire
A forum like this is kinda like a bar: religion and politics usually are better off left outside.
Why it's easy for any of us to go on a soapbox about this, rightwing or leftwing, it would nothing more than the same thing we accuse politician's and the media of: "Frontin". Why? Because Politics, and the World, itself, is a lot more complicated than any formite could sum up in a thread, plain and simple.
Well said, but I don't think the post was political as much as just saying "Sh*t!, I don't wanna get drafted!"
sings: "I don't wanna get drafted, I don't want to go! I don't want get drafted, no no no... cue "Dumb All Over" . The world may be complicated, but Frank Zappa managed to sum up a lot of it in a single song.
Kerry M
If we're dumb, than God is dumb!
And a little ugly on the side!!!!!!!
True! Very true!
Good Point.....Rock N' Roll may not understand the political topics very well, but it does sum up our feelings about them very well.
Politics are better left outside? Maybe, but I feel fine to talk about politics once or twice, but for the rest stay on topic. Politics are usually cause for arguments but I think that if everyone listens to eachother respectfully and the once again respectfully brings out their opinion that discussions over politics can work fine.
I don't condone what US troops have done in that prison, but now a soldier is claiming that she got orders from higher ranks. Sounds like BS to me, more like "It isn't my fault, he told me to!". The whole Iraq war is a waste of time in my opinion. Just let the Iraqis live with anarchy on their own and they'll end up getting fed up with the mess, and realize that they've screwed up. Yes there are a lot of innocent people there, but think about African governments taking aid money and building palaces with it, while the country has a million$$ world debt and 80% of the population is starving. Just as bad. Is George W gonna stop them? No. My opinion is that this whole Iraq war was about oil, not terrorism.
Let's face it, we're sadistic a**holes if you look at it that way, eating T-bone steak an' all :mrgreen:
Whoops I've gone of and splurted politics all over the place... :roll: Sorry :D
Edit: [...]
You're probably right Ben, I guess it's about the oil.
IMHO after September 11 the American Government felt it had to take action, misguided or not, and Hussain was the most visible despot on the scene who was a tried and true "enemy". This war is not going to stop terrorism in anyway, not as long as there are fanatics that are willing to die to kill others.I guess you have to have hope that mankind can resolve these problems, because if you don't you lack faith in the ability of man to transcend to a higer level of existence, seeing a future only of war, desolation and extinction.Cheery subject, isn't it.
I wouldn't get too upset about that article. People have been talking about the draft like its a sure thing since Sept. 11. I went back to work on Sept. 13th and the guy in the next cube was joking about if I had my draft card ready. ("Hey, that's real hilarious about me maybe getting shot somewhere far away, really, a total stitch...")
We have no draft law, at the moment, although there is a bill on the books: http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr163.html My understanding is the current bill was proposed by anti-war democrats as a way of saying "Uh, hey, this is where we're heading!"
If either party makes a play for reinstating the draft you're going to see a flood of former senators, cabinet members, etc. suddenly entering the private sector in 2-6 years. Think the Iraq war is losing popularity now? Just wait til the government is forcing children of voters to go over there. The reasons we went over there will immediately become a good deal murkier to Ma and Pa Kettle when Kettle, Jr. is strapping on a flak jacket.
Maybe it is good. Funny how they keep referencing that Iraq prison job. You know they had my attention and I felt ashamed and bad until I clicked on this link:
http://members.cox.net/nx100/_66501_american_beheading.exe
After watching this I really could care less what happens to anyone over there other than Americans. They are lucky I ain't president; all the middleastern countries would be a nuclear waste land by the time I got done. Please don't go to that link unless your ready. I was sick as a dog at my stomach for about 6 hours after watching it.
Sorry if posting this was a little or alot out of line. :(
I know it (and no I haven't watched it), they showed that on the news here untill the bit where they roll him on his side and grab a knife. I agree with ya Bluesgeetar, makes me wanna nuke the entire middle east too :evil:
Gee, if it was about oil it was a huge failure, cause gas prices have gone up about 70% in the last year here. I know it's still a bargain compared to European gas, but we americans are a spoiled bunch(this includes me), and it's putting a drain on my finances(I drive an old gas hog). I think the real reason we're there has to do with cranking up the old war($) machine for the fatcats to get rich(er).
My necks been bothering me since I saw that video of that poor guy. What is this ? The middle ages again? Though I think we're in for a lot more of those sorts of images till we get the hell OUT of there.
RDV
Quote from: smoguzbenjaminI agree with ya Bluesgeetar, makes me wanna nuke the entire middle east too :evil:
Boy I sure as hell don't. You want to kill millions of people due to the actions of a relatively small organization? You really believe that all the people in Abu Ghraib were terrorists who are getting what they deserve? Even our own military admits that 3/4 of the people in that prison probably don't belong there.
1) Nick Berg's murder was awful. We should absolutely find those responsible and punish them in the most severe manner that we reasonably can.
2) What has been done to the Iraqi prisoners is far beneath us as a country. We should punish those responsible, because their actions have seriously endangered what our mission in Iraq appears to be, which is half nation-building, half PR.
How do these two things cancel each other out? (Or rather, how does the first negate the second?)
it seems that _most_ of us agree that the US has no business (still or ever) being in Iraq.
So please, please, please, all of you who are more than 5 months older than me, go out and Vote for Kerry!!!
_please_ don't try to be an idealist and vote for Nader, and cost Kerry the election. You might as well vote for Bush then.
this is what i call voting by proxy. Im not old enough, so i convince some1 else to get out there and vote :-D
Hmm that's true Sam... Sorry, got a little carried away. 'scuse me :mrgreen:
Darnit I can't even vote for US gov't when I'm 18. Just ole Dutchie gov't for me, which has piss-all to say in global politics. Yup. I'm going to stop now before I say anything wrong.
Quote from: RDVGee, if it was about oil it was a huge failure, cause gas prices have gone up about 70% in the last year here.old ). I think the real reason we're there has to do with cranking up the old war($) machine for the fatcats to get rich(er).
The war machine$$ is definitely a big issue too.I'd say the situation is still too volatile to see any drop is gas prices, and it's more about controlling the flow rather than passing the savings on to the little guy.We didn't learn from the 70's with those gas guzzlers of our parents, we just (the US)feel into the same trap,(SUVs the like)and now we're paying for it. The Hybrids out there seem like a start in the right direction though, hopefully they'll be successful.
My original post on this thread is sounding better all the time.
Besides the fact that we can't sum up all the problems and solutions on one thread, the large majority of us don't even remotely have the depth of understanding on such complex issues to do anything more than offer our opinions as fact. Whether it's conservative or liberal.
We might have more credibility if we all were having this debate at a VFW, or wherever politicians hang. That would mean maybe some of us have shed some blood on the topic, or have worked in the system to be part of the solution.
Picture someone stationed over there, reading this thread from fx builders, who are sitting indoors, in front of computers, with no tan, supporting or bashing things they really dont have a clue about.
Am I saying that none of us should have an opinion because some of us haven't paid our dues in the military or in politics? No..we all have our feelings and opinions on these topics. But we forget that's what they are....our opinions , based on emotions, not fact, that we state as fact. And in this country, don't forget that since 1776, someone has spilled their blood so we could have our opinion. In some countries, they'd love to have that, and are amazed at all the spoiled sniveling we do.
That's why you always hear the old "no religion or politics" thing. Not because it's taboo, but because prevents emotionally charged, non-factual debates from getting out of hand in the wrong places.
Goes back to what I was saying about certain OT's not really fitting into a non-political forum like this.
:idea: ohm
Wasn't that a mouthful! :shock:
Pete, suggesting I'm saying non-communication is the answer is the kind of "frontin" I was talking about. Communication and exchange on this topic is great. What understanding will you get on the topic from other well meaning, but uninformed people? Do you go on non related forums for fx questions?
My point was simple, it was about certain OT's and their place on the forum. Maybe stating why that should be... struck a nerve in a few people who want to front their opinions as fact. But, away from this computer, I always found people like that tend to shut up around peolple who are well versed and experienced on the subject.
I'm extremely cynical about all politicians, either party.They sell us the same old lines about how they're going to change everything for the better, really shake things up, but in the end they only seem to keep things statusqou.Governments in general don't want change, they want stability so as to keep the economy running smoothly.Unfortunately, the only time things really do change is during revolution, which also brings death and destruction to peoples lives.
Imperfect people, imperfect world.
Quote from: u1061810Unfortunatly, the only time things really do change is during revolution, which also brings death and destrution to peoples lives.
Then the "new" people in charge do the same old thing, until it's their turn. lol Ever notice that in your place of work? Ever had a co-worker promoted to be your supervisor? Like Daltry sang, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
Enough for me, house chores are done, and the sun is actually out (rarer than an honest politician :shock: ).... time to head out.
I wonder if anyone has asked the former occupants of that prison (under Sodamn Insane's regime) how they were treated. Most probably couldn't answer be cause they HAD THEIR TOUNGUES CUT OUT!!! Or had their genitalia removed, ears and hands severed, family members and children tortured, raped, executed before their eyes!
I don't condone the actions of the mis-guided, under-trained guards of the Iraqui prisoners, but I agree we should pull out, put Sodamn Insane on trial in a International Court for crimes against HUMANITY, and let the Iraqui people wallow in the Chaos of their own doing. Freedom and democracy are not given...They are earned by the will, DESIRE, and concensus of the populus.
My $.02
Quote from: u1061810Unfortunately, the only time things really do change is during revolution, which also brings death and destrution to peoples lives..
It's just not true, though. We've seen big change in this country that didn't have to do with revolution (I assume you're talking about coup d'etat-run-into-the-presidents-office-with-uzis style revolution). The civil rights movement, the fight over abortion, the upcoming fight about gay marriage...If nothing else, 9/11 should show us that world political climate can affect your life in a big way (possibly by ending it!) If we can effect a serious change in global politics such that the people of the middle east no longer feel that they are under the boot of the world, that will be the end of the War on Terror. Note that I'm not saying they're feelings are wrong or right, but they certainly exist, and it doesn't take a ton of historical searching to figure out why. This needs to happen, because you can't fight guerillas with the support of the local population with a huge military. All the guns and bombs in the world don't matter if you don't know where to point them.
I wonder if anyone has asked the former occupants of that prison (under Sodamn Insane's regime) how they were treated. Most probably couldn't answer be cause they HAD THEIR TOUNGUES CUT OUT!!! Or had their genitalia removed, ears and hands severed, family members and children tortured, raped, executed before their eyes!
I don't condone the actions of the mis-guided, under-trained guards of the Iraqui prisoners, but I agree we should pull out, put Sodamn Insane on trial in a International Court for crimes against HUMANITY, and let the Iraqui people wallow in the Chaos of their own doing. Freedom and democracy are not given...They are earned by the will, DESIRE, and concensus of the populus.
My $.02
[quote="Samuel
It's just not true, though. We've seen big change in this country that didn't have to do with revolution (I assume you're talking about coup d'etat-run-into-the-presidents-office-with-uzis style revolution). quote]
Not really.I would say more like the French, or American Revolution, when the people just can't take the oppression anymore and rise up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for non-violent change, but I was making the point that usually there is blood shed before any major change in government occures.
Ever hear of this?
Universal National Service Act of 2003
http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr163.html
.ok
Well....I do have a tan. :P
RDV
Power to the people, thats what we should be thinking. First three words of the preamble of the Constitution WE THE PEOPLE! not I the President and my business croanies. You have to look and see, and read everything and if you are really interested you will find out the truth. You can't just listen and say thats right or wrong, think for yourself that is what freedom is about. This Forum is about freedom, of thoughts and ideas, I am proud to be able to post here and watch and listen, and see these great ideas come together and become something that everbody is a part of. WE the people here are a part of something, I have seen people get mad, uphappy, and sad about things they have tried or been made fun of an idea taken. Then we say who cares, and we come together to help out and bring that person or idea to some place new, we say don't leave we will miss that little thing that took us some place new, and we just on our computers.
WE THE PEOPLE THINK FOR OURSELFS AND TOGETHER HOPEFULLY WE CAN CREATE SOMETHING FOR US AND THOSE THAT HAVE THEM FOR OUR CHILDREN
Quote from: yanoEver hear of this?
Universal National Service Act of 2003
http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr163.html
Mentioned that above, as well as how it's not a bill intended for passage, really. It will probably sit in subcommittee forever.
The thing that gets my goat is how we are always told that America is a democracy and free society. What BS. They say we get to elect our govt officials here! Hah! What a crock of sh#$. Both Kerry and Bush suck and Nader! So how did they come to be? It like the govt is always giving us a basket of rotten apples and telling us, "here pick one!" Of course our thinking is, why can't I have a nice clean fresh apple? No this is America! We get what they give us. They always leave out the most important detail in our daily brain washings. They always say, "In America we get to pick our elected officials." But they always leave out the first part. The truthful phrase would say, "In America the corporations and govt pick who the citizens get to pick for our elected officials."
I still say we nuke them. Let's remember here! They will never stop! The terrorists will always be attacking us. And none of the Middleastern countries give a dang whatsoever. Didn't they attack us first? I don't think we did anything to provoke 9/11. When we do finally pull out over there don't even think it is over! They got's more coming to us worse than 9/11. They should have let Saddam stay.
I bet if Saddam knows what is going on right now he is laughing his arse off.
If Elvis were a stompbox what stompbox would that be?
Quote from: BluesgeetarI still say we nuke them. Let's remember here! They will never stop! The terrorists will always be attacking us.
I find it absolutely appalling that you are unable to make a distinction between people living in the middle east (let alone the various nationalities in the middle east) and those involved in terrorist organizations. I had other comments on things you just posted, but I think I'll stop here.
gez: He'd be a Blue Magic to go with his shoes.
Green (fried onion) Ringer?
Quote from: petemooreThink for Yourself / Contraception prevents poverty...
That's rather Orwellian, but it would have definately prevented most of the soapboxing in this thread.
Thinking for yourself is one of the underlying points of my thread. That's why I don't care for the rhetoric and soapboxing, it's a mob mentality, not individual thinking. Meant to serve personal agenda's and impress, not inform. Free your mind of the circular thinking that everything's a conspiracy. It's just a different form of the complacent mindset. It's the least feared type of thinking by governments and institutions because threatens no one of power.
The three basic factors in this particular prisoner issue are:
1. The Geo-political end: The who's, what's, and why's of how this affects us, the Iraq situation, and it's effect on us globaly
2. The Military presence
3. Correction Management in the Military: the simplest of the issues
What have we specifically learned about these three things from here? What are you going to do any different as soon as you leave the safety of your moniter? How much of what you say here would you repeat to someone face to face, who just got off a transport from there?
I wouldn't mind discussing/debating the specific issue...just PM me. As long as you have
direct experience in one or more of the three factors I mentioned, not heard it from a friend of a friend, or "saw it on TV". I do have direct experience in the above, and am being directly impacted by the recent issue. I would love to hear different points of view on the topic that are educated and BS free.
Funny, we have a college student who's worried about the draft (understandable), an American being beheaded, and Military Correction's Management problem that the terrorists used as an excuse to behead one of us. And I seemed to have struck the biggest nerve, by saying that an OT such as this should stay off the forum, and why. Human nature I guess.
A friendly word of advise though, be careful when you repeat such uninformed sentiments away from the moniter. If you make inflammatory statements to someone who has actually stepped up to the plate, and contributed to the solution, with real blood, sacrifices, or sweat, you might find the response less than pleasant. And the escape key doesn't work out there in the real world.
Quote from: gezIf Elvis were a stompbox what stompbox would that be?
Would that be the'Young good looking Elvis' stompbox, or the 'Fat drug-addicted about to die on the toilet Elvis' stompbox? Or maybe the 'Forget about them damn Beatles look at me 68' comeback special Elvis' stompbox. I can't help but think a single effect wouldn't cover all 3.
Clambake Baby!
RDV
Quote from: RDVWould that be the'Young good looking Elvis' stompbox, or the 'Fat drug-addicted about to die on the toilet Elvis' stompbox?
RDV
That's easy...if it's in a 1590b, it's young Elvis...if it's in a 1590s...it's the fat, diaper wearing Elvis.
Quote from: RDVor the 'Fat drug-addicted about to die on the toilet Elvis
Police are still trying to piece together his last movements...
(not my joke)
Quote from: Fret WireAnd the escape key doesn't work out there in the real world.
Wouldn't it rule if it did though :mrgreen:
I fully support the Elvis-related derailing of this thread :)
I believe the things I typed before, but I suppose I do agree that this forum may be better off left sanitized of this discussion. I bet there's a political discussion message board out there somewhere...
Elvis was the king.I guess we could debate that too
Quote from: u1061810Elvis was the king.I guess we could debate that too
Ok...I say he's
still the King! No one goes to Vegas to be married by a guy impersonating Keith Richards or Sting. :lol:
Quote from: Fret Wire
Ok...I say he's still the King! No one goes to Vegas to be married by a guy impersonating Keith Richards or Sting. :lol:
Having people dressed up as you marrying couples who met half an hour ago at the nickel slots is, of course, the aspiration of all royalty.
Quote from: Samuel
Having people dressed up as you marrying couples who met half an hour ago at the nickel slots is, of course, the aspiration of all royalty.
Probably more than we think. Alot less harmless than the legacy some "royal types" have left.
Quote from: Fret WireProbably more than we think. Alot less harmless than the legacy some "royal types" have left.
Haha. Touche!
Is Scottie Moore's guitar sound.
There's the real threat to the dignity of our youths.
Anyone know what he was using?..Sounds like a hallway with a room on the side.
http://www.scottymoore.net/guitars.html
Quote from: Fret WireNo one goes to Vegas to be married by a guy impersonating Keith Richards
Divorce yes, but not marriage...
This all has the feel of old home week.
My draft number was lucky - 308 - and I still remember the day I got it. I had been selected *not* to take the MacNamara Scholarship (two years, all expenses paid, with stipend, in sunny South Vietnam, studying local biochemistry and social relations).
I can still hear Country Joe and the Fish singing "Well, it's one, two, three, what are we fightin' for?"
I just wish my hair grew like it used to...