hi im an new to guitars and modding and stuff. I want to make a clear distortion effect. I have good solder skills but a pretty tight budget. I think i would prefer perfboards because they are cheaper. I just went out and bought a pcboard kit and a prepunched perfboard but it didnt have and tinned stuff on it. SHould i take this bake and get the pretinned ones? ANd wich diy proj. should i do? I dont want it to take a long time and for it to be really complicated. I have been reading up for awhile and was gonna to the electra distortion but i decided to start perfing instead of pcb because of the price. IF tou could please help me i would really appreciate it. Since i am going back to radioshack to take back my pcb kit. SHould i also take back my perfboard? And get the pretinned ones? Any and all help will be appreciated
Thanxz
'KiD
I use the copper pad-per-hole perfboards from RS, they work well. If you're afraid of shelling out some dough, this hobby may not be for you though. You can buy some pretty decent effects for cheap from Musician's Friend you know. The Arion stuff is decent, and REALLY cheap. This is an expensive and addictive hobby. Don't get me wrong, I love it as much as anyone here, but make no mistake, it costs $ to do it right.
Regards
RDV
well i know it is $$ but what i want to do right now is just get some cool effects like distortion and stuff. I just want to make one and see if i like it. I was into RCin but i really didnt have the time with it. BUT i enjoy soldering and stuff like that. But the main reason is to futher my knowlege with electronics. Should i take back my regular perf and get the soldered one? I got the biggest sheet at radioshack was like 5 bucks.
Quote from: cyberkidd007Should i take back my regular perf and get the soldered one? I got the biggest sheet at radioshack was like 5 bucks.
Nothing wrong with that Radio Shack perf. It is actually lacquer-coated (that's why it looks brown) and the soldering iron will burn through that coating --it doesn't need tinning (pre-soldering).
-Eric
oh ok thats good to know know i can take back my pcboard kit and spend 16 on parts. I was at runoffgroove and i saw tube reamer and many face (or something like that) and i liked those especially tube reamer because that is just how i want it to sound. Would this be a good beginner proj. because i really like it. or should i do something a lil easier like the one on this forum? Does it give a distortion? or what does it do>?
thanxz
'KiD
edit
Quote from: cyberkidd007...or should i do something a lil easier like the one on this forum? Does it give a distortion? or what does it do>?
thanxz
'KiD
It's a booster.
The Muff booster here is a good beginner project that distorts. http://www.muzique.com/schem/projects.htm
Or the electra is alright also.
RDV
yeah i especially like runoffgrove because of all the pics and stuff. But its not really a beginners site because it doesnt have alot of documentation. I didnt really like it because i want something that walks you through and tells you what to buy like the electra but i heard there was an error in the electra?? what is that?? What would be a good beginner one that doesnt cost alot but gives a decent affect?
EDit: the perf i have is cat#276-1396 a
thanxz
'KiD
It doesn't get more plainly explained and illustrated than this:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/TweakO/TweakO.htm
Here's the board recommended in the project(also used in most of the R.O.G. projects also)http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F002%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=276%2D149
Here's the one I've been using for Opamp based projects(cause there are groups of connected pads which make things easier for using ICs):
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F002%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=276%2D150
Have Fun
RDV
what exactly is the tweako? and would it cost alot?
ill take back my pcbkit and perfboard and get the grid stuff. Ill also buy my projects supplies when i decide on what am doing.
The Tweak-o is what got me started, I highly recommend it for a first build. It's maybe best described as a medium-gain fuzz/distortion. The build explanation is incredibly detailed. You can get the same perfboard with letter/number coordinates from Radio Shack or Steve (at www.smallbearelec.com ) and then just follow the numbers. He even provides photos of the board from the component and copper side, so you can see all connections made. It couldn't be any easier than this. This is also a decent circuit for testing basic mods. So do it now!
Alex
This is the Tweak-O project file:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/TweakO/TweakO.htm
It's available as a complete kit with everything included for $35.95
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Ordering/Stocklist.htm
ok thanxz guys i think ill try that. DO you know approx. how much it cost to build it? And what size box would be good? i dont want everything packed in there put not a whole lot of room either.
could someone list all the parts i need? i would really appreciate it because i dont want to mess something up because i thought x was y and bought the wrong thing.
Thanxz
'KiD
Even if your'e building something else, the tweek_O article is a great read, and much of the info relates to any build.
I believe there's a parts list for the Tweek-O, a parts list can easily be made with pen and paper from any schematic that lists part values [all at ROG do] most schematics include values.
First build...the lower the parts count = easier it is to debug, and debugging skills you WILL need, sooner or later, probably sooner if you're inexperienced as I was when I started.
If you haven't already, check out the beginners page here from forum index, that NPN boost is a Good One, and you'll surely like using a nice booster like that [well ... extremely likely].
The Fetzer Valve...also a great sounding low parts count simple build and uses a Jfet.
what does the booster do? And i dont understand how to make a parts list because i dont want to screw it up but if someone would make me one i would really appreciate it.
Thanx
'KiD
The LPB booster doesn't add distortion but increases your gain or signal strength. It works best pushing an existing gain stage. It's probably not what you want if you're looking for a distortion effect.
The Tweak-O parts list is at the very bottom of this page :
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Projects/TweakO/TweakO.htm
The kit is probably the best way to go, as you get everything you need, and the parts are already chosen so you can be sure they're correct.
As FretWire mentioned, it's $35.95 here : (the 6th one down)
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Ordering/Stocklist.htm
Alex
ok i will prob buy the kit because i know it is right. thanx for your help
ok i just took a look at my wallet and i only have 25 dollars i was thinking that i could maybe goback to the electra and try that since it has all the radioshack part no's. I heard about something wrong in the diagram though. Do you know what this is? Would it be easy to put it on a perf? how hard would it be to convert it? Is there anyone here who has done the electra that could give me some help? or tips/pics?
'KiD
Many times, your money goes less further at Radio Shack. We all know what it's like to be on a budget though! It may be better to wait until you have the $15 more for the Tweak-O kit. Of course it's your money and your choice. Like Pete suggested, the Tweak-O file is a good read whether you build it or not, just to give you an idea what is involved with building a pedal from start to finish. It's more than just soldering the parts on the board and connecting the jacks and such. You also have to put it in a box that fits the project, decide where to drill the box so all the off board components fit, wire it properly, not only so it works, but so the wiring fits the box you choose, and so on.
The Tweak-O takes care of that guesswork for you. All you are left to do is buy the finishing paint. The rest is all mapped out. It's always a nice confidence booster when your first project works the first or second try. :)
ok well i really want distortion and i kinda like the DIY part about it. I know it would cost more at rs but its just a "down the street reliable source" and i could just pickup a few things. And if i do get the distortion pedal working i want to make one for my friends and radio shack comes in packs of 5 so thats good. But i kinda need some help in soldering the connections. http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/richardo/perfboard/electra.gif this is what i want to make but i dont understand how to connect them on the bottom very well and i dont want to screw up. Is this something good to go off of or should i pick another circut that is electra? I want to solder sockets in the place of the diodes and stuff like runoffgroove does so i can just switch them out and stuff.
If you read the Tweak-O article you would have an idea how to proceed with the Electra also because the same principles apply. Read, and ye shall learn. Read the DIY FAQ. Read all of GEOFEX. Read all of AMZ. READ. :wink:
Regards
RDV
The RS route is fine, but have you decided if you want a switch? Do you want true by pass? LED indicator? RS has limited switches if you want this. What about a box? They really don't have much that can stand up to much stomping. Sometimes it's better to order from other sources. Aron, for example has the best prices on the 3PDT switches.
I've built the Electra, one of my first.
First, look at the schematic, even get pen and paper, copy by hand big, and mark the connections at the nodes.
Note how many connections are to be made at each node, and plan the physical placement of all parts at that node as you go, layout should be giving you a little extra room, Leaving a small amout of component lead [enough to access that side of the component where possible {electrolytics/no] so you can test by touching most of the connections atop the board with the DMM's probe.
Measure the value of every resistor with the DMM, lay all the parts out.
When soldering, get rid of big globs on the tip, [I use cheep RS iron and have been 'knocking it off'] or clean the tip repeatedly with a damp [almost wet?] cotton rag. Wear goggles or close your eyes when tip cleaning, long pants don't hurt.
Lead bending is an art, having the lead stay still. contacting the pad or other lead makes the actual soldering easier.
Mounting the board, [I mount the soldering iron in a brick]...either way gives you an extra hand.
Plan the approach and retreat of the tips contacting the leads/pads to be fuzed together. I like to get contact [fairly directly/quickly][so as not to disturb other 'near connections] with the non-blobbed tip, to as much surface area of the parts to be soldered as possible, then add a touch of solder to allow the heat to transfer through ALL the metals [another slight dab helps heat sink in for many connection nodes].
Add heat/solder until solder is 'stuck to all the leads and that pad.
Socketting the transistor: recommended for heat non/damage to transistor, For these points, you could poke the 1/2 length lead through the board, in a hole next to the transistor socket pin, then bend a U shape [1/3 inch is about too deep of a U] on the end of the lead coming from the top of the board, and pull the body of the component so as to 'plug the lead into the hole with the transistor socket pin, also pin the socket to the board flatly for the first pin.
Be careful about transistor, diode [I think they can go backwards like 'TOT 'can] and any polarized capacitors pinouts and orientations.
If you have a small drill bit, loop the offbaord wires through a hole in the board...near...add offboard components liek pots and battery clips last. To check connections of pot and stuff, find on the schematic where they're supposed to go, then use the DMM Beep mode to be certain the correct wire to lug connections are made.
Use the DMM Beep mode across the battery clip buttons to test for direct shorts of power supply. Check any other connections or..
Load the transistor and test the circuit. You'll be able to tell right away if it's working, turn the pot test that the cable to the amp is live, and that input source [guitar] is present in the input cable.
I use test jig for this..Search "test jig". Just a 2 boxes 2 jacks, three test clips on wires for 1 ground to both jacks 2 input jack to circuit conntection 3 output connetcion to circuit. The bottom box separates the jacks from the bare board and mounts them, the top box is non conductive.
If it's not working, use the DMM and the schematic, and see that ALl connections are made, or not made [as the case for that Node may be],
then try the audio probe.
When that doesn't work, read at GEO about transistor biasing, or post the transistor pin voltages measured with DMM/ DC volts, 20V range, I like a test clip wire from DMM black to circuit ground, with battery connected, measure with red lead at each transistors lead> E, B amd C, post your findings here.
While you have the black lead on ground, switch to beep mode on DMM, and test that all ground connections of schematic are made, including the cable grounds, there should be enough grounded cable plug metal to touch with the probe when the cable is plugged in.
For a jackless test jig, poke the plugs through the thick cardboard, and use large test clips at each end of a wire X4 to make the grounds and input and output connections to the cable plugs..sleeve and tip, this method saves jacks, but is gangly, and less dependable.
I just put a good length [3-4 inches] of input conection wire [from te input cap] and output wire [from the vol control], this makes the board sit right, and the clips stay away from making stray connections.
This IMO is the least debuggy way to build...I'm thinking .."Did I miss something?" because I often do...the debugging skills really come from reading, comprehension of more complex reading, experience, and mental computing/use of the DMM in every way possible.
I Hope this helps, I know how defeating first build problems can seem, take your time, and double check the connections on the board and the schematic repeatedly...I used to draw by hand schematics of small circuits, I can draw up an LPB or FF, familiarizing yourself with the schematic is a good idea...you're probably getting there by now...
OK i think i get the hang of what to do and ill stay up late readin i can garuntee that. BUt what is the program use to make all the perford layouts? i would make one like that and then load it up when i got it how i wanted it to be. I like the modded ones that he used in my last post because u can change the clipping with a couple of switch flips. Well ill let you guys know more later.
thanx for the help petemoore
and i dont really need it for STOMPING just like press it and "distortion" thats it since i just started learning guitar. I just want a press switch and thats about it other than clipping on the layout im doing
also one last thing. on here http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/richardo/perfboard/electra.gif it doesnt list wich diodes i should use. i have searched around but cant seem to find much help. I want both soft and hard diodes for my switches. Also should i just use a regulat switch ? or what? and is the Q1 gonna cost me alot? (i forgot the name) if so what else could i use?
thanx "alot"
'KiD
Doesn't the original Electra sepcify the diodes?
If this is you're first effect, You might want to keep it kind of simple.
I'm not sure what kind of diodes that picture uses, for a 1 transistor build, that sure is alot of diodes having never seen or tried of that build I can only speculate about what the extra diodes might do.
I would try the Electra distortion, and leave a little room for the diodes that connect to ground so as to add them later, or use sockets for the diodes, I use an 8 pin IC socket for most first try builds so I could try different types and configurations.
Since these diodes configurations have two connections each [each set] lifting one end [disconnecting] will disable that set, a simple spst switch will do that.
I suggested, but didn't hear about [so I assume the theory is true......has to be] using Ge's [which clip 'early'] and Si's [their higher threshold wouldn't be met if the Ge's clipp first] all in one diode clipping 'place' and use an SPST on the GE's...when they're 'in, only they would clip because their clipping wouldn't allow the SI's to see enough voltage to start clipping [the GE's clip that voltage at a lower level] then with the Ge's disabled [by the SPST] the Si's would clip [assuming that part of the circuit met their voltage threshold.
l<
Ge's >l SpST
Signal < >Ground
Si's l< wire
>l
< means signal connects to both Ge's and Si's [one side]
> means ground connect to Switch/then Ge's, and connects to Si's
>l and l< means diode
ok i think i will just use the double clip settting layout and just put the regular diodes [1N4001 silicon diode (276-1101)] in on of the sockets and leave the otherone blank until i figure out exactly what i am doing. I have re copied down the schematics know i just have to make a copy of a perf and start tryin alot of combinations. Then ill post hopefully tommorow and get it approved then goto rs and buy the parts tomorow or the next day and put it together. Petemoore since you have built one (refering to your post a couple up from here) you would know approx what size box to use. What do you think would be a good one? I am looking at the rs alum. ones for like 3 bux. I dont know what they are off the top of my head though. And about how big should my perf be?
ok on the duel version that i am going to make it doesnt have a dpdt switch does all this do is turn it on/ off? Because if it did that then couldnt i rig a stero input to the ring and sleeve to be ground/-v ? and then when u plug it up it turns on?
I don't follow the latest question.
My 'way', is: assemble the circuit, test for battery clip short, try firing it up with the least possible jacks and switches.
Once I'm certain the circuit is working dependably, I think about boxes or Bypass switches and jacks.
I judge perf size cut [I use the largest size and cut what I need off, to save money/time] by counting column parts [how many parts are 'stacked' on the schematic...say you have your emitter resistor, transistor, and Collector resistor being the 'tallest' part of the circuit {up and Down ways]....add 5 perfhole spaces for each component at the 'tallest part of the schematic.
For that circuit, I would use at least three lines [15 holes high] of a large perfpiece, cut all the way across the bottom...that should be high enough and more than long enough [cutting the perf across the 'short' dimension, all the way across]. You may want to add a fourth 'column' high [5 more holes high or total of 20 holes high] because of the diodes in there...but they can probably easily be accomodated [at 15 hole high] by using length instead.
ROG has a blank perfboard pictures, make copies of that, and draw up your parts placement to figure out size and where stuff goes.
Those RS boxes are a bit of a hassle, I've used them, they are easy to drill [the larger holes may 'warpl' the flat..you end up with a 'twisted' and heaved up area around the larger holes cause the drill 'grabs and prys up at the end of the cutting, easy pressure and very flat {cutting with the drill bit exactly vertical] may help... :cry:
Also they tip over too easy, not stable, and it's hard to dress them up with the way the top fits the bottom, cheep [somewhat] effective, there's better boxes....
For a long time I used RACO junction boxes [like behind your wall plug outlet] after re-inforcing the punchouts with JB Weld epoxy...they either take alot of work and bondo, my prefferrred method of dressing them is with old thin leather or blue jean material YMMV [whatever YMMV means???] YMMV=???[I don't know...something about your results may vary???
I'ts hard to beat those Hammond type boxes, I heard of ones going for 6 or something online. I've always wanted to try one....
For a circuit like that, noise caused by lack of shielded box may not be an issue...mostly high gainers is where you'd notice lack of shielding issues, but you could just shield the input wire, or make it not so long, and might notice no difference in noise.
Lately, I've been taking a sheet of 'good' [thick enough] metal plate, like off an old amp or whatever...if it has 1.5''-2'' sides that's a plus, then building a wood frame around that. this is nice in that I can build the circuit first, size the box to my needs, run all the pots off one end of the board, and thread a hole in the board [where theres a space with no parts/wires], and run one screw through the box into the threaded board hole, and with a piece of hard clear [sorta thick...retail packaging] plastic
under the board, it's either mounted firmly enough [watch you don't clamp down too hard and cause a misconnection of underboard wires], or the bottom of the board can be accessed well with the loosening of the one screw. Being able to access the bottom of the board is prime consideration in my box choice/assembly techniques.
A couple layers of electrical tape between underboard 'stacked' wires will insulate them even if they get clamped a little.
So either by finishing the board first for sizing the box, or planning the perf layout to predict the outcome of the board size, [you need accomodation for pots, battery {if inside battery, I end up with battery hanging outside the box before} jacks switches etc] you can start looking for enclosures that meet your needs.
For grounded enclosures, I use urethane substrate, or the thick plastic sheets you find, used for theft prevention on many products, under the board, to protect the underboard connections from shorts.
Use the conventional standoffs to mount your board, and disregard all the above suggestions 8) .
First thing for me, is getting a working circuit on a non jacked/switched board, I find this greatly simplifies debugging of the actual circuit.
I've been going for 'long, wide boxes with a more shallow profile, tall sides make it harder to do work on the circuit when the pots, and all are wired/mounted in it. I began to think about how these boxes prevent EZ access to the bottom of the board, and tired of removing surface mounted jacks/pots etc, or having to remove the entire circuit and all offboard components to do work on it, ...I like wide enough box to put all pots and offboard wires coming from one side of the board, that way I can simply lift the other side to get to it....shallow makes the iron easier to 'angle' in. too shallow though, and the bottom has components protruding :oops: ...all a matter of taste.
Shallow also has the advantage of wide footprint/low center of gravity=stability from a cable tipping it up or over.
One of my favorite 'boxes' is a large panel from a large reciever...housing 3 circuits...this reduces the need for cables/jacks and battery connections...I use boost, phaze, and FUzz alot, having these three circuit types in 1 box...I use it all the time. I prefer hardwiring [no cable/jack connections] whenever possible, but it reduces the flexability...once a circuit is in a certain chain position and hardwired...to change the order of effects requires a soldering session....more than one well chosen circuits that work well together [and you like] has advantages and disadvantages...
ok i dont get how you use it without switches and jacks wouldnt it be more complicated? and on my last question what do dpdt swtiches do? If they turn it on i could wire it like this http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/beginners/images/image4.gif to turn it on when i plug it up?
thanc
'KiD
I guess it all depends on youre viewpoint.
I find that the more I can reduce what needs debugged, by division [eliminating variables wherever possible] the easier it is to debug.
Check out the paragraph]s above about test jig...for a circuit to work in the chain between guitar and amp, ground must be made to both cables [from guitar/ to amp] as well as hot [tip] connection from guitar to effect input, and hot [tip connection of cables plug end] from effect output to amp. However these connections are made doesn't really matter, as long as they are isolated from any stray connection, and "made', ...from my Experience/for my testing purposes that is.
well im gonna run up to rs in about an hour or two. I was wondering what type of switches should i get? Just regular ones or xx? Then ill just get the normal diodes that is in the regular schem's and all that stuff. Ill just get the bare nesesities. should i use stero plugs or mono? if i use stero i could make the power on when it is pluged in or i could just use a switch and run mono right? would it change my sound any? or be cheaper?
ok i think that i have decided to just go with the regular electra setup since it has a full tut and since it has been done many times so i can get help. Also i started looking at my schem for the modded version and it doesnt have any pots or anything on it so i am just going to do the regular but leave some space for that mod a lil later.
ok i took alook a rog's pic of the electra that he made and he didnt use a dpdt switch what exaclty does it do? And has anyone out there done this on perfboard? OR know a link to info about someone who did it with a perfboard? WEll i am on my way to rs now and if i have the money i will go ahead and buy a switch if not i will have to rig the power to the stereo input jack.
Thanx
'KiD
In the beginning I figured I'd really only NEED say a few or more boxes with all the doodads.
I decided to focus my money and energies toward the "trying many circuits theory"...in which I spent less time worring about switching and boxes, more time building and testing different circuits.
Now I've tried 100+ circuits and have about 15-20 of those boxed up, others have been scavenges for thier parts...I'm an A/B type, comparing and contrasting different tonal/electronic circuit types.
To my reckoning, boxing averages out to about 1/2 or more of the time it takes compared to building the board...testing and tweaking the board notwithstanding.
Many of the circuits had a real bad reaction to my boxing attempts with them/frying, shorting, not working properly in one way or another, so I decided to forgo the 'extras' until I was certain I'd like what the circuit does enough to warrant another 'bout with boxing'. ...You're boxing experiences may vary.
None of my boxes look like they have the time/money in them as the 'better' looking ones seen in pics around here...so if you want great looking very neat/compact builds/boxes, you're better off following someone with experience in making great looking boxes.
Some of my boxes look PDGood, but still 'homey-er' than those that started with a Hammond box.
So I figure it's a total waste time wiring up switches, jacks, leds etc and mounting all that up and into a box with the circuit that doesn't work or doesn't provide the desired degree of pleasure. For a circuit with only a knob or two, if they're well placed, the box can be used for some other circtuit sometimes, depending on the box layouts...why waste a good box, and go through re-solders on your jack lugs etc etc. when you can test and compare and find something I'm certain I will really like for a while or forever before drilling...and doing all the etc's
I also found that debugging the switch and jack wiring is much easier when the wires are connected to a circuit that Is known to work.
After doing a couple True Bypasses, it becomes very easy to debug anyway though with the DMM set on beep mode, and following the DPDT [or 3PDT for LED indicator] true bypass art at GEO after understanding the related text.
But it's all good...
For reference, all this is just suggestions, take from it only what you can use, disregard the rest.
ok just got back from RS and here are the things i got for 20 dollars:
Metal P-BOx (270-238)
1n4001 SI diode (276-1101)
Audio Taper Pot (271-1722)
2) 8 pin IC sockets (276-1995)
.01?f (u and p mixed symbol) (272-1069)
perfboard (276-149a)
9v batt snaps (270-325)
47k resitors 1/4 (271-1342)
2)1/4 stero jacks (274-312b)
680 resistor 1/2 (271-1117)
2n3904 SI transistor (276-2016)
THats what i got for 20 bucks
they didnt have any 2.2m resistors or a dpdt switch that i needed. Is there a way i could substitute these parts for someting? And did i get the right stuff for the reg. ELectra? and is the 1/2 watt 680 resistor OK?
thanx
'KiD
return it all, and order from smallbearelec.com
Im only half kidding there. It will probably cost less than $20 for all that stuff, even after shipping. And you would get a nice, heavy box if you buy a hammond, not the RS junk, and you will get good jacks, not the RS junk...
Steve (from smallbear) also has the switches you need, and all normal resistor values.
If you can still return the board, you can also get nice, pad per hole perfboards from him for a good price.
well thats too late because ive drawn all over the box and opened half the stuff. I really need to be putting it together tonight. And finish it tommorow. i just need to know what do to without the switch because ROG did, and what i can replace the 2.2m resistor with? Then i can start drawing my perfboard layout. SOmone please help.
thanx
'KiD
Electral Schematic your'e using ???
ok..I checked the schematic at Fuzz Central, and there's a 3M3 resistor [3.3 Megohms] on that one, if your schematic calls for 2M2...probably anything you can put in there that measures between 2m and 3Meg, will be fine...
I didn't see one at ROG, so I don't know what the switch you're referring ot is.
For the BIG resistor,...parallel resistors of equal value are 1/2 of what an individual resistor of that value would be:
1M
---< >--- =500k or .5 meg
1M
set the resistors next to each other [parallel] and tie twist the four leads together [two leads at each end, to make one path through both R's]....doing this with any two same resistors...calculate RX.5 or half as much resistance..check with DMM
or...two 4M7's in parallel should come in around 2.6Meg [check my math].
Conversly...two 1M resistors SERIESED...will come in close to 2MEG[in a row...pick two leads, one from each resistor and tie those together]
Seriesed resistors of same value double the resistance...
RX2 or 1M + 1M=2M
---1Meg---1Meg--- =2Meg
I don't know of drawbacks using this method other than the obviouse board space/neatness issues [seriesed R's..sometimes I 'tag' where they meet down through the board to an otherwise open [not connected] pad...just to physically tie them down/less dangly]
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/1355/beginners.htm the one here. But i calls for a switch and ROG didnt have one i was wondering how he did it.
I don't see a switch on that schematic...
What would you liek the switch to do?
First switch I'd think about is a true bypass, info at GEO.
the second switch I might think about would be a second set of diodes selector, or input cap mod switch...
I would guess as I've read such reports that are conrgruous with my experience/taste, that I like the one setup of clipping diodes best for a given circuit, and switching in the others doesn't get used so much.
You could get two fairly different tones using different diodes that you like though.
It's been sometime since I tried diodes in the circuit, I'd probably socket and try the ones called for by the schematic first.
For fun experimentation and input cap mod research...try a socket for the 'extra' input cap that parallels the first one, this is the inverse of resistors though...adding parallel caps raises the value...I like to start with a slightly 'thinner' [smaller] first cap that rolls off a bit more bass, then add a small Pf or something cap to that [on a SPST switch?] to see what that does...experiment with different values...
I get a field of caps to 'harvest' from another VCR board, nice reddies and greenies and electrolytics, and bipolars...ceramics [if you're into that] come in handy for them rolloff caps, and I can't tell much difference about Ceramic Vs Film or Metal in those rolloff positions. Hard to find resistors too.
ok i dont want a switch. I just couldnt find one at rs so nvr mind. The electra is at ROG's old site i forgot what it was. I will look for another resistor that should work.
thanx
'KiD
ok i couldn't find any resistors that was an xM one. So i have to go back to Rs and buy some more. Will this work?
---v^v^v(1m)^v---+---v^v(1m)^v^v--- = 2m ?
am i right
or should i use 3 to get 3 million since it calls for 2.3 ?
ok i glanced over at my other schematics (the one with 4 diodes and a switch) And it calls for a 47k, 470k, 680 resistors. I have all of them but it calls for a 100nf Cap. So would it be better to use that one and take back my caps and exchange them and use the switch one but take out a set of diodes ? and the switch's? or just get the 1m resistors (but it wont be the exact right value)
OK i was digging around in my spare parts and i found abunch of 100(pu sign) 10v Capacitors. The shape of them is a black tube like thing. Could i just use these? and i have some that are 16v. 100 (pu sign)
Use 16V caps or larger Vcaps with 9V...N/P. except they're so BIG sized.
Schematic sure helps, I feel lost without it.
Going by the Schemaitc...you have the choice it seems of that big resistor value, if you socket that position [ I like to do a resistor's socket with 4 pins {one side} of an IC socket.
2 x 4M7 paralleled resistors is in the pocket there I think. Measure before installing with DMM. The schematic I saw called for 3M3, another 2M2...probly won't tell any or much difference anywhere between those. That resistor sets bias on the base...itt'd work most likely with a 1 Meg in there...you of course could try any value and see.
I like sorting through electric junk/garbage and salvaging...I have taken out the trash before with 4 stripped monitors, that I'd scavenged caps pots and even a few resistors...nice to have around when searching for that last part or to use the caps all the time for bout everythng. I think that one VCR boards parts alone would easily have topped 50$ at RS had I shopped there for them. Yeahh I like having LOTS of parts around, I hardly ever returned them.
However new parts is new parts, ordering from Small Bear cause they're cool, or Mouser is a good move, for more complex [expensive anyway] circuits, I like to buck up and get the nice parts new from a good source.
I like the 500 Pc. resistor rolls, with most of the values in it. I'm used to and can find values quick off a scaled roll like that.
so if i was to use the schematics here http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/richardo/perfboard/index.html and take out the switches and d1 & d2 i could use the resistors that i have all 3 and then use the 16v 100 (pu sign) capacitors (the BIG ones) and run it safely?
Quote from: cyberkidd007so if i was to use the schematics here http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/richardo/perfboard/index.html and take out the switches and d1 & d2 i could use the resistors that i have all 3 and then use the 16v 100 (pu sign) capacitors (the BIG ones) and run it safely?
Yes, that will work. Put the .01uf cap you bought at the input of the circuit, and use one of the 100uf caps at the output. This is a polarized cap, so it has a positive lead, and a negative lead. The negative lead (wire) is usually marked with a minus-sign inside a circle, or oval (on the side of the cap)pointing toward the negative lead. The negative lead connects to the top of the first diode, the positive goes to the transistor.
-Eric
Isn't that large for an output cap?
I would think something between say .1 and 10uf would be more appropriate?
ok i just finished soldering it together and it didnt work. So i am going to start debugging now. I have tried 2 battts but all i get is alot of static when i twist the pot.
ok i think i figured out what the problem is. When i put my dmm on v and had the black on ground and on my 100 uf cap it read like .23 or something like that. also when i measure the base and emiter on my transmitter it was 0 (is that normal?) well could i use the .1uf cap in place of the 100 one? if not i can salvage a 4.7 and some other 100 at 16 volts. I'll just replace the cap with whatever u guys think tommorow
thanx
'KiD
Do you have the print on the transistor facing the output side>?
Electrolytics - - - sign connected to ground?
Take transistor measurements and post them if you like, I'll take a look and see what they look like.
Try a signal injector...grab a conductive shaft on the conductive part[like small screwdriver], touch that to the output that connects to the amp..you should hear a Buzz, if not, debug the connection to the amp.
Move across the next part from the output... the vol pot?...set that in the middle.
Next part...the output/DC Blocking cap that was 100Nf or uf [.1 or 1.uf is what I'd try] I'ts easier to work off one schematic for a first build, at least till you get it going.
Test both sides of the output cap with your 'thumbtester' [DONOT DO NOT use this technique on high VOLTAGE Circuits] or rig some kind of other signal source for injecting signal into points in the circuit.
Now...touch signal to the collector [should be near top of schematic, board, and near + of power supply] of the transistor.
THEN...the base [center lead], if the base of the transistor doesn't buzz louder than the collector, it's not amplifying.
Use debugging techniques detailed on debugging page.
DId you test all the resistors with the DMM to determine their value before installing...NM...double check the color codes.
Try some of that stuff, let me know how it's going 8)
Consider yourself being initiated, then take a break. Get coffee or sleep.
I't may have won the first battle, there really is no other way to gain experience, the best weapon in your arsenal will be the DMM, the more ways you can figure to apply this tool, the faster you'll find ways to find solutions to problems.
Quote from: petemooreIsn't that large for an output cap?
I would think something between say .1 and 10uf would be more appropriate?
If I read correctly, he didn't have anything in that range. That cap will work fine --if not "textbook perfect". Seems to me the idea is to get that thing running with available parts --not to send him off scrounging through dead motherboards ;).
-Eric
ok i am using 2 .1uf caps. And when i turn it on it is really staticky and doesnt change the sound. I took out the diodes and it sounded the same. The reason it wasnt working at first was because i didnt have the base on the transmitter connected.so now i get static and lil amplification and no distortion. What do you think is wrong?
I will make a schematic and post it of what i did.
Connect the black lead of a voltmeter or DMM to ground, touch the red
- lead of the meter to the collector and take/write down the measurement reading.
Do the same for the Base and Emitter. Post the results here.
Pull the transistor and measure the resistance of each resistor.
For resistor testing on resistors that connect to the tranny socket, touch the lead to the appropriat tranny socket pin to verify connections.
Do you have a DMM?
OK ill do that yes i have a dmm. I have my schematics but dont know how to post them.
ok the base was .5 the collector was like 14.x and rising and the emiter was 0. THats all i got then it went dead
...or likely the transistor pinout is incorrect.
find new ways to use the DMM on it...
checking resistances of resistors with tranny out, continuity [that 'seen' connections are actually 'made'
Compare to the schematic repeatedly as you verify the wiring.
You should have it so the circuit lets injected signal source pass through from the collectors connection to past the output of the effect...test this with live amp connected to output of the effkt.
ok im gonna take off everything post my schematics get you guy's approval and redo it. And make it look a lil nicer. How do i post a pic? Can i email it to somone and they post it?
I've actially seen it done. I haven't a clue but to tell you you can get as far as I have [registering] at photo bucket.
I don't know if the adress window has anything to do with it or not, that's about all I get out of it, and I haven't a clue what why or how that works
ok here is the schematics i have pics of my board but the cd to my digi cam broke so i have to find a way to import them to my pc.
(http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/cyberkidd007/Guitar/Electra_Schematic.bmp)
I can't see a pic there..
try this http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/cyberkidd007/Guitar/Electra_Schematic.bmp
I think my problem is that i need a bigger resistor. Because that is how i wired mine using 2 differ schematics the one from GGG and the one from J Philpot's
GGG's called for 100uf Caps and the same resistors and J Phillplots called for .1uf caps but a 2.2M resistor instead of a 470k. I think that that is the problem.
I've built the one like you drew. It should work fine. You just got to wire it up right.
RDV
ok ill try to do that. What caps did u use? Where they polyester? And i was wondering if you could take a pick of the top and draw lines in (gray or something) of were the connections go because my vmm just died and im all out of money. If so that would be a REALLY BIG help.
Im getting really tired of it failin so if u would help I would really appreciate it
thanx alot
'KiD
I used .1uF poly caps(available @ RS). I long ago took it apart.
I think this one is a more useful circuit.
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/v2/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=76&op=page&SubMenu=
There are many articles at GGG that show you how to wire things up with lots of pictures. You're going to have to read this stuff, and make mistakes. If you're really interested though, you'll get past the mistakes, and make a circuit work on your own. It won't be that long.
RDV
aer you sure that is the right link? I dont see how that would help me. That is really complicated. And are you sure u built one just like mine. Because in the end instead of a 2.2m resistor i used a 470k one. To use have any chat programs? If you could talk through me that way and pm me your S/N.
thanx
'KiD
RDV's right, the reads are what gave me debugging skills background.
That and going over it so many dang times on different builds, oh yes I make mistakes, anyone whose built a bunch has...
Assembling parts on the board is often a very small amount of the time involved in producing a working circuit in a box.
I would say take a break, get the meter going somehow, then try it again.
I never tested different values of that resistor, but 470k isn't near 10%+ or - of 2M2...though they are both relatively big
I found one...http://www.geocities.com/j4_student/electra.gif
This is one that I built.
thats the exact build i used execpt i use a 470k instead of 2.2 and SE diodes. WEll im off to unsolder everything and i th ink i will just twist the leads together for now then go back and solder it to look nice.
thanx
'KiD
ok i had to solder it because some of my leads were not long enough and then i tried it and it didnt work but it did a couple of times. (when i touched who knows what) So then Itook my diodes and soldered them in using a heat sink with them. INstead of using sockets and it worked. It sound really really good. BUt the bad thing is I only have 1 cord and i was using my friends so i have to go buy one. I am gonna buy one from rs that is 12 ft long for 8 bux. (spiraly cord) Then i got to get the drill bits and finish my case.how should i mount my board?
do this Joe D's Easy Drive (http://analogalchemy.com/pedals/easydrive.html) It is a GREAT little distortion box, sounds awesome, easy to build.
would SERIOUSLY recommend doing this build.
Good Luck To ya
There's the standoff's method, the epoxy it method.
And my quick effective and dirty method.
I drill a hole through the box and the piece of hard plastic I cut from packaging designed for theft prevention. This thick plastic sheet needs to completely cover the ends and the whole bottom of the board to prevent unwanted shorts.
Then I screw a self tapping [or other] screw into a hole in the board...aligning the holes in the box and the board is the only semi-tricky part, I just 'eye them.
Quote from: cyberkidd007So then Itook my diodes and soldered them in using a heat sink with them. INstead of using sockets and it worked. It sound really really good.
Hey, Great!
Listen to pete --he's the master of creative effect boxing :)
-Eric
Just don't clamp so hard you press the bottom connections together, or insulate with elec. tape.