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Hey all,

I was just about to throw together a couple effects, and I have been hearing things about how silver solder does wonders for pedals.  Apparently, that's the secret to the Landgraff Dynamic Overdrive...  Anyway, I figure it's gotta be worth a try.  Does anyone have experience confirming or denying this myth, and also where to come by the stuff? (I have had a hard time finding it online)

Thanks in advance,

Aaron

If I was in business selling it, I'd tell you it's true, but it's "mojo BS" to the 10th degree. Just use a good iron, and 63/37 solder, and your soldering worries are over. In other words, the solder you choose affects how well you solder the components to the board, not how the effect sounds. And after using  regular 60/40 solder a long time, then trying 63/37, the difference is amazing how much nicer it is. Peter Snowberg turned a bunch of us on to that solder.
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/6262

If you need an iron here's a good affordable one:
http://circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/7501

If you order $2.00 more dollars worth of stuff, Circuit Specialists then gives you a free DMM on orders over $50! Great solder, a good electronically temp controlled iron, and a free DMM for $50.

BTW, that pedal you mentioned probably hypes the silver solder so you won't think about how much you just spent on a modded Tubescreamer clone.

QuoteApparently, that's the secret to the Landgraff Dynamic Overdrive...

Cool name for a pedal.  Surprising it needs silver solder as well as that fancy name.

Sure that silver solder story is fake, but it IS true that if you turn your tubescreamer upside down, the electrons flow through the top of the circuit and don't caught in the electronic "sludge" in the bottom of the copper tracks.  Right?

I use that iron and that solder, and can offer nothing but great recommendations for both. Especially the solder 8)

In small print on all the silver solder packages I've seen it says only 3% silver.  Stick with the 63/37.

Quote from: brett
Sure that silver solder story is fake, but it IS true that if you turn your tubescreamer upside down, the electrons flow through the top of the circuit and don't caught in the electronic "sludge" in the bottom of the copper tracks.  Right?

My testing shows that 2 degrees past upside down is best for Si diodes, and 5 degrees before upside down for Ge diodes. But, you must use a radioactive titanium protractor to measure the degree's, or the tone will suffer greatly.

I tried measuring the resistance of solder, but failed.
 I found phelonic board to be so resistive as to be insulating though...maybe there's mojo in that1

Quote from: brett

Quoteit IS true that if you turn your tubescreamer upside down, the electrons flow through the top of the circuit and don't caught in the electronic "sludge" in the bottom of the copper tracks.  Right?

Absolutely correct! plus, remember all audio filters have to be connected backwards to backwash after 2,000 hours listening. :lol: (that's from an old synth manual, hope it didn't fool anyone...)

Quoteall audio filters have to be connected backwards to backwash after 2,000 hours listening

Ok, so if the filtered stuff doesn't accumulate in the circuit, it gets dumped to ground/earth, right?  How long is that stuff gonna stay down there?  Has anybody noticed it come BACK UP the earth connection and fill your circuit with sh$%?  Makes you wonder.... :wink:

That's what the 100uf Audio-Septic caps are for. Harmonic waste storage. Make sure the polarity is correct, or it will backwash out the input jack and load your pickups.

BTW, Mobisimo: We're not goofin' on you. Just having some fun with the pedal maker's hype. Given the amount of hype that some of the boutique pedal makers use in their advertising, it's a perfectly legit question to ask. We're more than happy to help you save money on equipment, so you can spend your money on what really counts: components to make more pedals! $8 for a whole pound of good solder, it'll last you quite a while.

Huh, cheapskates - skimpin' on the gold plating...

No mojo, the silver in it helps prevent 'wolf tones'....or should that be werewolf??...hmmm...

Quote from: Fret Wire

Quote from: brett
Sure that silver solder story is fake, but it IS true that if you turn your tubescreamer upside down, the electrons flow through the top of the circuit and don't caught in the electronic "sludge" in the bottom of the copper tracks.  Right?

My testing shows that 2 degrees past upside down is best for Si diodes, and 5 degrees before upside down for Ge diodes. But, you must use a radioactive titanium protractor to measure the degree's, or the tone will suffer greatly.

and remember it only works in the northern hemisphere - that's why SRV never toured Australia or NZ

Aaron,

Just so you know there was a schematic for the Landgraff floating around the web a few months ago (I'm not sure if it was verified) but it was really nothing more than a modified Tube Screamer. If I remember correctly it had a switch so you could go between a pair of silicon diodes and a pair of LED's. Not much to it really. The "secret" to the Landgraff is probably a good PR guy. I haven't actually heard one (and at that price I never will  :shock: ) so I really can't comment on the actual tone but, again, the schematic was similar to a Tube Screamer. I would buy a cheap TS-7 and read RG's article "The Technology of the Tube Screamer".

As far as the silver solder goes, it may make a small difference (who knows?) but whether you can actually hear the differnce is another story. Don't waste your money. Go with the recommendations above. And good luck with your builds.  :D

AL

I use Silver-Solder (5%AG - 95%S-Sn) for years and I will continue. It's harder to solder and I don't know if anybody can hear a differnce, but: Last year I ran out of Silver-Solder and used normal solder (60%S-Sn - 38%Pb - 2%Cu). In most of these pedals some solder-joints broke after a while beeing kicked around rehersal-room floors  :shock: - that never happened in pedals where I used Silver-Solder (it's much harder).  :)

So maybe not the Magic-Tone-Mojo but for me it's the Durability-Mojo !

:D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  Michael

Hmmmm, I haven't had physical restrian failure from using RS solder, been using it for years, and never had a part break loose.
 Once a month I put a fresh garlic clove in my boxes, some are more sensative to parasitic vampirism, this keeps the signal from becoming too 'toothy' :?

Ahem ... solder is *supposed* to be a mechanical / supportive device, it *isn't* supposed to be used for conduction. Ideally, the parts being soldered should contact the PCB track / other part directly, with the wolder being used to hold the part in place. If you consistently rely on solder for conduction - i.e. don't perform correct mechanical assembly - you're making a poor joint and need to work on your soldering skills before even considering selling something to someone else.

Non-silver solder seems to have been good enough for thousands of manufacturers to use in mission and life-critical applications over the years; applications that are far more demandind than being used in music rehearsals. Again - it's far more likely to be a quality of construction and assembly issue.

Mike

While lead/tin solder is approx. 12 times more resistive than silver solder is, it makes no audible difference which solder you use. The only benefit to silver solder is that it is supposedly more friendly for the environment (and yes, people) than lead, both of which occur naturally in ore form. Silver solder does not flow anywhere near as well, either. Anyhow, this is in the same vein as the silver wiring in guitar amp hogwash. If we were talking about lengths of wire hundreds of feet long, maybe. But an 18" long wire (if that)? Gimme a break.  :roll:

BS to make you feel good about dropping $400 on a $50 pedal.

Quote from: Fret WireBTW, Mobisimo: We're not goofin' on you. Just having some fun with the pedal maker's hype. Given the amount of hype that some of the boutique pedal makers use in their advertising, it's a perfectly legit question to ask. We're more than happy to help you save money on equipment, so you can spend your money on what really counts: components to make more pedals! $8 for a whole pound of good solder, it'll last you quite a while.

No worries, man.  I can appreciate that.  I half suspected a TS clone anyhow, but I figured whats the harm in seeing if theres a difference in solder.  I was listening to some sound samples on a site which weren't particularly impressive (granted, its over the internet quality), but there was a fair discrepincy between the samples and what the guy thought of it.  Not to mention, the inside was a f*ckin mess.
What is impressive is how a 400 dollar price tag can be so alluring as to make one think that it is worth the money.  Had me goin for a bit...

I recently switched to Sn 95% Sb 5% tin solder, partly because it's lead-free, but also because it's made locally.  It has a different "feel" than regular solder though -the melted solder is a bit more gooey.

Quote from: Ge_WhizHuh, cheapskates - skimpin' on the gold plating...

Gold PLATING??!!  Blasphemy!  Surely you meant "solid gold conductors with interwoven platinum 'energy rods' to let the sonic aura of your equipment shine through as nature intended."  


Alex


edit:  Remember this?   :D http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=18667&highlight=audiophile+knobs

I'm going to start bolting everything down with Gold lugs and Nuts...'conduct' surveys on the marketability... :lol:

that's not so funny. I saw a serious project for an ultra-low distortion amplifier that specified brass screws for the PCB. The PCB was such that a ground plane made contact with the screws, and hence the cabinet. Apparently, dis-similar metals caused a noticeable rise in the THD for the amp!!!

Quotenoticeable rise in the THD

And as machines can detect less and less THD, the audiophiles will want lower and lower THD.
Strange that the same people are typically unable to detect poverty in India and Africa.

just like this guy (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20040707/en_nm/art_vermeer_dc)

This absolutely disgusted me when I read about it. That kind of money could go a long way... but no, they buy a tiny little, useless, unattractive painting!

Quote from: mikebAhem ... solder is *supposed* to be a mechanical / supportive device, it *isn't* supposed to be used for conduction.

....ahhhh...I've seen exactly the oposite argued somewhere!  Anyway, for the stuff we're doing, it hardly matters, IMHO.

Quote from: niftydogjust like this guy (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20040707/en_nm/art_vermeer_dc)

This absolutely disgusted me when I read about it. That kind of money could go a long way... but no, they buy a tiny little, useless, unattractive painting!

Well, admittedly she's no oil painting...er, no that's not right...anyway, it is a few hundred years old, and it is by Vermeer! (a pretty amazing artists, someone who cronicled lives/scenes of ordinary folk)  

In an ideal world all this stuff would be in galaries and not in the hands of private collectors though...

Have you seen 'Girl with a Pearl Earring', the film based on Vermeer's life? (well, a bit of it).  Good film....I'm still waiting for the XXX version...

2% and 4% silver solder is available at Rat Shack. Right down the aisle next to their ass-branding soldering irons.

Whether it makes a difference or not probably depends on if you're trying to cloud the fact that you've basically ripped off everything you've built from somebody else. It becomes important only when you've got to come up with something, anything, which you can use to rationalize your ripoffs.

If you're going to use silver solder and you want to be a tone guru just follow these easy steps...


1. Rip off someone else's good circuit,
2. Emphasize the trivial (silver solder, carbon comps, 90% right angle wiring - regardless of current flow-) etc...
3. Justify by quoting from Ecclesiastes..."there's nothing new under the sun".
4. Assume everyone who listens to you is an electronics idiot and condescend to them as much as possible.
5. Pray you don't get exposed or it's back to laying concrete.


I know GrandLaff lurks here.
Some thanks to him are in order.
I'd like to thank Jack Orman for GrandLaff's TS values.
I'd like to thank Zachary Vex for Grandlaff's Mosfet Boost.
I'd like to thank Leo Fender for GrandLaff's 20 watt amp. A rebiased and repowered 5E3 clone using 6L6 tubes.
I'd like to thank Kevin O'Connor for GrandLaff's Plexi.
His "Mo D" distortion is the run of the mill modded ProCo Rat.
His Wah pedal is a stock repro of a basic Vox except with a Red Fasel and a 51k input resistor instead of a 68k.

When is silver solder really important? Only when you can't tell the difference between OhmS law and Cole Slaw.

The reason his pedals/amps sound good (and they do) is because the circuits he clones are good. It's just that simple.

hey guys,
  i use silver solder. i used to work for minolta, repairing underwater cameras. they used it and i still do. i got the job right after electronics
school and never changed. it works great for me. i'm in the bizz and never consindered it a selling point. ...........  and never will.
  whatever floats your boat :D ............ some guys are leg men , some guys are tit men. who's right......? .......i prefer both :twisted:  8)  :wink:
         peace,
           - tom

I am probably going to open myself up for a lot of ridicule here because I have no "scientific evidence" to back this up, but here is the experiment I conducted.  I have made three "Grandlaff" Boost's.  The first was done  entirely with 60/40 solder.  The second one (made with identical 5% tolerance parts, sorry I don't have the measurements of how close they are within the 5%) was made with the same 60/40 on all circuit board connections, and Kester silver solder on all connections within the box (ie. input and output jacks, connections to the pot, and power) and the last one I made (once again with same 5% tolerance parts), was silver on all connections.  

Did it make a difference?  Sure did.  I put all three of them together in a  side by side test, same guitar, same amp.  It went from dull sounding, to middle of the road, to fantastic (silver being the best for those keeping score at home).  Sure it costs a bit more, but IN MY OPINION (remember folks, we all can have our own opinions here) it is worth every penny.  All I can say is, it made a HUGE difference to MY ears.

Alright, commence flamming!!!

SA

EVERYTHING matters in this kind of stuff. It's just deciphering HOW MUCH it matters.  :)  I use silver solder. Why? Because, when I first bought solder, I didn't know my ass from a hole in the ground about electronics (still don't!) and I still have the original spool. Now, take a basic TS type circuit, put in better caps, better resistors, better jacks, better pots, better opamp, better transistors, and use silver solder, and I bet you are going to have a damn fine sounding pedal. But, how much better will it sound than an off the shelf TubeScreamer? Who knows? And I'm not about to spend the next year finding out.  LOL

Also, regarding how easy certain types of solder are, if you have a clean iron, clean components, and your iron is the right size/temperature, then I would say ANY solder will do you right. I will have to take your guys' word that some solders are easier to use than others.

Also, why the hell would you claim silver solder's better tonal benefits and then throw in the noisiest resistors you can find (carbon comp)? So you can more clearly hear the hiss they are producing? HA HA HA Poking fun at this LandGraff guy.

Quote from: guitonit
Alright, commence flamming!!!
SA

Ok - sounds like complete b/s to me! (well, you asked for it) :D Are you saying the difference between the first and second one was only parts tolerance? Besides that - it wasn't a blind test, and you knew what was in each one, so are you surprised you found the 'best' one to sound 'best'?

Too many people spend too much time looking for that 0.001% improvement in their tone when they should be practicing. I don't seem to recall any silver solder being used in Hendrix's pedals, or SRVs or ......

As mentioned previously, if you need to use silver solder as a selling point, you must be hiding something, or your 'work' must be completely unremarkable.

Mike

personally, i used silver solder from the beginnging, til it ran out recently.  Then, I switched to this hug spool of 60/40 i found.  Difference?  well, between you and me, all my solder was used as brazing basicly, to glue stuff together after they were mechanically connected.  differences are the 60/40 rosin core flows easier than the silver solder, and i cant pull a new length of it from the spool with my teeth because it stays hot longer.  thats about it.  MY few cents anyway.  Peace N Love,

Jeff

Quote from: Somicidei cant pull a new length of it from the spool with my teeth because it stays hot longerJeff

Sounds more like 'suicide' than 'somicide'!! If you ever notice a blue line around your gums, you'll know you have passed lead absorbtion criticality.

Quote from: Paul Perry (Frostwave)

Sounds more like 'suicide' than 'somicide'!! If you ever notice a blue line around your gums, you'll know you have passed lead absorbtion criticality.

I always use small lengths of solder instead of one big one (easier to maneuver in a guitar cavity). One day I noticed that I was, without thinking, holding it in my mouth when I wasn't using it. :shock: Smart, eh? I stopped immdiately and thus far only one of my testicles has fallen off.









:roll:  :lol:

Quote from: gezHave you seen 'Girl with a Pearl Earring', the film based on Vermeer's life? (well, a bit of it).  Good film....I'm still waiting for the XXX version...

Which I guess would be Girl With a Pearl Necklace?

Forgive me....

Quote from: ErikMiller

Quote from: gezHave you seen 'Girl with a Pearl Earring', the film based on Vermeer's life? (well, a bit of it).  Good film....I'm still waiting for the XXX version...

Which I guess would be Girl With a Pearl Necklace?

Forgive me....

What's wrong with these people, don't they know when to look a gift horse in the mouth?!!!  Google it, it simply doesn't exist!

Well, it didn't the last time I looked...not that I look for those sort of things...er, I mean if you did do something like enter those words into a search engine...er, probably nothing would turn up...

Phew, think I got away with that one!

He he he
Haw haw haw

Se how the fly like Lucy in the sky
See how they run...

yea, i shouldnt pull the solder with my teeth, i know, but i spit every time afterwards!  Dont know if that helps, but im sure we all have bad habits.  Peace n Love,

Jeff

http://www.osh.dol.govt.nz/kidz/gore/lead.html
.....seeing as everyone has been posting cat pics.

Quote from: Paul Perry (Frostwave)http://www.osh.dol.govt.nz/kidz/gore/lead.html
.....seeing as everyone has been posting cat pics.

yikes paul, stephen king has nothing on you brother. this is a killer eye
opener :shock:  for the young pedalpals that may have not known about this. most of us would prefer good health , i'm sure.
      good link,
            - tom