I know that the Thunderchief, the English Channel, the BSIAB, etc. have reputations as sounding like certain amps all by themselves. I will have some free time coming up and I plan on building 1, 2, or all 3 of these. But I have a question.
How well do they react with pedals in front of them?
A Fuzz Face in front of a Thunderchief? How close to the classic sound will I get?
A Rangemaster in front of the English Channel? Brian May??
I know that there's no substitute for a tube amp, but how close would this get me?? Or is it like a FF in front of a SS amp (reputedly very bad sounding)??
Thanks.
-Joe Hart
Some effects work better w some amps than others. I had a solid state marshall that everything sounded great with, but now my new Tube amp Peavey XXX only some effects wanna souns good. Do what i do--Build them anyway..eventually youll get another amp that theyll sould good with..or simply tweak them.
Well, I tried a Dist+ into Supreaux.... :D ...very nice!!!
Recording the Rangemaster into the Supreaux last night.
I report this arrangement sounds really classy...amazing...just can't get over the Amp Emulators, they really do totally Rock... 8) Playback is very good !!!
I just now plugged my Brian May Treble Booster into my English Channel, and it sounded great.
However, it didn't sound like the BMTB plugged into an amp. I guess the "boost" basically overdrove the hell out of the first j201 in the EC, and so most of what I was hearing was the fuzziness of that overdriven transistor. It did sound good, but it sounded almost like a very creamy fuzz pedal; it did not sound like the BMTB thru a tube amp.
Then I ran my tube screamer into the EC, and it sounded just like it should. So, I think distortion pedals will work fine, but boosters may be a little weird.
I should point out that I love my EC. It's amazing. It does have slightly higher gain than my Line 6 Vox has, but that really only makes it more versatile. Much of what is great about these simulators is that you get this subtle tube-amp-like compression that really makes them sing.
petemoore is far more knowledgeable than I am and may have a better explanation of why the booster didn't work the same with the sim as it does with the amp.
petemoore: Do you think the supreaux/rangemaster combo sounded like it would if you had the actual amp?
Thanks guys! That's what I was wondering. Just because I don't particularly need another distortion box (I know, horrors!!), but an "all in one" kind of thing... that could be cool. So, I was thinking a DOD250 into a Thunderchief (and possibly into a cab simulator) then into a poweramp and speakers, and I could get a sound I would be happy with without lugging tons of crap around all the time. Thanks!!
-Joe Hart
P.S. I am interested to see what Petemoore has to say about the booster problem.
Build the prof. tweed and put an boss od-1 and comp. in front, with a dan echo in the effects loop.
What type of sound will that (Tweed and OD-1) get me? I'm not too familiar with Fender Tweed tones. Thanks.
-Joe Hart
I don't know if you've listened to the sound samples on ROG, but the t-chief has a lot of gain. If you run a distortion pedal ahead of it things are liable to get out of control. Just the sim itself into a power amp will likely sound wicked. My EC into a power amp is way-good and needs no help. I guess you could turn down the gain on the t-chief and use a pedal; I normally like the amp sound better than the dist pedal sound so I don't think that way.
To answer your question, the prof tweed (i haven't built it yet) will be much cleaner and brighter than the t-chief, which means it will be more compatible with a distortion pedal. Stevie Ray used a tube screamer with his fenders to dirty them up.
Thank you, tcobretti, that's what I was wondering. As far as distortion pedals go, I just toss a slightly modded DOD250 in front of a dirty amp to give me a little more brightness and a slight goose to the upper harmonics. So, it's not like I would be tossing a screaming metal pedal in front of it. Also, I could probably mod the Thunderchief to get what I want out of it without another pedal. Thanks again... everyone!
-Joe Hart
I use the Fetzer to warm up my clean cha. gives me a nice boost for a clean blues tone i can use, then if i want to get a more overdriven tone i add 1 of the other Emulator's behind the Fetzer in the chain, this can give you some very good tone and let's you have several different lead tone's.
And it sound's good with my F/F or TS9 or any other pedal.
Johnny
I think it needs to be said that after all is said and done, at the end of the day, all the emulators are just distortion boxes that sound a lot like the amps they were patterned after. 4 example: I know good and well that a Vox AC-30 won't get as distorted as an English Channel, but the flavor of the EC is distinctly AC-30-ish.
And Joe:
I think I have a good idea of what kind of tone you like and man, that BSIAB2 is one of if not the best 'Marshall in a box' I've ever played. It just roars & screams! It even does that 'Nirvana step on the pedal and it feeds back instantly' thing really tastefully well. I should probably be promoting my own pedal here, but that BSIAB2 is so good that you could truly leave the rest of them home. Gain up: it's a cranked to the brink Marshall. Gain down: it's a TS-808 on steroids.
Oh yeah, you could build my pedal too. :wink:
RDV
joe wrote:Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:33 pm Post subject:
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What type of sound will that (Tweed and OD-1) get me? I'm not too familiar with Fender Tweed tones. Thanks.
-Joe Hart : I put my comp. first, od-1 second [this is an original that I havent had my grubby hands on ] and I have an prof. tweed and fetzer mounted in the same box third. this way with my rig I can prog. add to the overdrive characteristics to an clean tube amp. as its one of the most natural sounding dist. and pleasing that I have heard in a while. If I crank it up I can get some niel young [weld tones] or you can dial in some zz top[ I am currently trying to get la grange down. There is a nice variety available, the next thing on my build list though is the thunderchief for high gain................Or you can dial in some nice fat clean tones.
Well, thank you all!!
I was leaning towards the Thunderchief or the BSIABII. RDV, you always seem to have intelligent advice, so I think I'll go with the BSIABII first. Thank you.
And thanks to everyone else, too. You all answered my question perfectly (little bit from here a little bit from there...). I just didn't want to put the time and effort into something that wouldn't really be what I wanted, and the sound clips are cool, but I'm really more into the "feel" of the distortion rather than the final 2-dimensional sound of it.
Thanks!!
-Joe Hart
My Thunderchief needs some work as it seems stock to be a little lacking in low-end. I just need to add the larger bypass cap and retest. I've built so many circuits on my bands extended break(6 weeks!) it's tough to pick which ones to use. The English Channel & BSIAB2 are in favor right now. But for playing at home I still enjoy my HMP a great deal, as it's sooo bloody heavy.
RDV
Supreaux testing has shown it to be very accomodating, and quite variable dynamically [like a Tube Amp] to input voltage.
Just the guitar into it gets a nice range of clean to meduim breakup OD tones like you'd get cranking a certain tube amp [I think..I have no 'S' amp but have heard them and 'Ssimilars'. Suffice it to say the Supreaux gets a very nice Tube Ampish breakup. Pretty amazing considering speakers are not part of the equation in emulators.
Into the Supreaux goes:
Rangemaster
Fetzer
OS Comp
Meteor
T.S. TypeClone [different..kinda 'harder' sounding than I'd expected]
DS-1 [modclone]
To which the Supreaux responded by providing a very wide pallette of superbly playable and dynamic tones [I'm having too much fun here], and nice VERY usable gain sensativity to guitar rolloff and picking strength.
I've become quite a fan of Jfets, and the amp em. is shamlessly great sounding and quite friendly with many of my other pedals.
My Supreaux has a high end taming switch on the last two [also easily tweekable being at the end of the [in/out] switch ground wire and sockets for the other side, which I've found very useful.
Metoer into the Supreaux is what I was using today....Whew...really Hot Stuff going on there
RDV, the sound clips of the HMP sound great! Very dynamic (at least to my tinnitus-riddled ears). How did you record it? As in what gear? It sounds a little dry and you have a little trouble with the pinch harmonics. But it could be just the gear that you have. I'm not saying it's bad at all!! I mean, Mark Knopfler has a great sound, but that's totally not what I want for tone. Just curious. Also, do you have a schematic for it or just the layout? I think I would want to protoboard it, then mess around a little (though not too much because I do think it sounds great). Thanks.
-Joe Hart
Gosh Dang it, petemoore!! I wanted to build a couple of little things to get some cool tones, and you're ruining it for me!
The problem is that I dig metal (it's what my band plays), but LOVE Brian May, Led Zeppelin, SRV, etc...
So, my list of a couple of cool builds has grown way too big. I thought I could leave the Superaux off my list, but I guess not!! Especially if it is so responsive to different pedals and, I would assume, playing dynamics.
Dang it!!
Is this how it happens with addicts? I'll just try it once... well, maybe twice... well, what harm can it do if I only do it on weekends...
Dang it all!!!!
-Joe Hart
P.S. But thanks anyway (or at least until my wife stages an intervention).
Quote from: Joe HartRDV, the sound clips of the HMP sound great! Very dynamic (at least to my tinnitus-riddled ears). How did you record it? As in what gear? It sounds a little dry and you have a little trouble with the pinch harmonics. But it could be just the gear that you have. I'm not saying it's bad at all!! I mean, Mark Knopfler has a great sound, but that's totally not what I want for tone. Just curious. Also, do you have a schematic for it or just the layout? I think I would want to protoboard it, then mess around a little (though not too much because I do think it sounds great). Thanks.
-Joe Hart
I recorded it straight into my computer with my Les Paul and my RP-12 providing minimal delay and reverb. When the recording light comes on, I freeze up big time. I didn't take too much time getting them perfect playing or sound-wise cause I wanted the sound of the pedal itself to come through. I designed a metal style pedal though I'm not really a metal player. I just like playing around with that tone when I play at the house.
I would breadboard it first, and play with cap values @ C3, C9, & C10.
C3 determines how much low-end gets distorted, I've decided that .1uF works best for me, though the clips were recorded with a 1uF at C3.
C9 & C10 are the caps that determine what frequencies are affected by the parametric. The values I chose effect the low-end of the pedal. You can experiment with these to effect any range of the sound as long as you use a 10 to 1 ratio in the values.
The 1k trimpot labeled SAT is probably the most effective knob on the pedal as it turns it from an open-sounding overdrive to a compressed metal chunk-monster.
The 1k trimpot labeled Q is also critical as it changes the response of the parametric from a pinpoint response to a much wider boost or notch.
The regular schem, project file(PDF), and a nice clear png file of an improved PCB are all in Schematics 2.
Regards
RDV
RDV, thanks for the info on the HMP (especially the mods with explainations of what they do -- I can follow directions, but have no idea what certain components do in even the simplest of circuits!!). I will definately build one!
By the way, you had mentioned that you have a "good idea of what kind of tone I like," and I was just curious... what tone is that? I'm not being wise at all. You are one of the more helpful (and knowledgable) folks here. I'm just very curious as to how close your guess is. So, lay it on me!
-Joe Hart
Quote from: Joe HartRDV, thanks for the info on the HMP (especially the mods with explainations of what they do -- I can follow directions, but have no idea what certain components do in even the simplest of circuits!!). I will definately build one!
By the way, you had mentioned that you have a "good idea of what kind of tone I like," and I was just curious... what tone is that? I'm not being wise at all. You are one of the more helpful (and knowledgable) folks here. I'm just very curious as to how close your guess is. So, lay it on me!
-Joe Hart
You might want to try red LEDs(in the 1st stage) like you use in your pedal. The coolest thing about the HMP to me is how incredibly quiet it is, very little hiss or hum.
As far as what you like, I only have your pedal demo, and the fact that your music is kind of dark gothic metal with a twist. I'm just using my imagination to an extent. I know that a good metal guitar sound requires good lows, scooped(to various degrees) mids, and viscious complex highs for those harmonics.
(http://www.tributecity.com/forums/images/smiles/asthanos.gif)
RDV