i'm planning to build a tube amp (in the near future)
i have never dealt with tubes but i don't want to build a beginner tube amp
cause i won't have the money to build another one soon...
what i want is to build a well-known tone amp such as vox,marshall,fender,etc
but i want it to be as easy as possible
any suggestions of a good and easy tube amp build???
any guide for building that amp???
www.ax84.com -> check it out...
probably P1 for the first project...
i did the HiOctane and it rips really... haven't heard a marshall that sounded so good like my HO... especially the jcm2000 - HO eats them tonewise for breakfast :)
at least in my opinion - and i worked in a guitar shop and tried lots of newer marshalls...
:shock:
cheers!
i would not recommend making anything too hugely powered, and the 5-7W from the P1 or HO is quite decent, and just remember 5W is half as loud as 50W NOT 1/10th!!
If you refuse to build a 5-7W amp, then i would recommend either trying the P1-Extreme which i believe uses an EL34 and is about 15W(???), or you could go for an 18watter, and you'll have a lot of people from the 18W forum to help you with those specific builds.
I only suggest that you don't go for a very high gain amp, because no matter how well you think you can layout the amp, it seems there is always a way that oscillation will sneak into the amp... (evil oscilation! :evil: )
saying this - i must add that i haven't built a tube amp myself, so nothing i say is be all end all, but i've been looking at, and reading about them for over a year now,
trent
www.dobermanamps.com
oops, the above is the same as the AX84 dealio.
also consider doing a search on Ebay for "tube guitar pa," or "tube pa." you can modify old tube pa amps, which cost like $40-$100 to your style. i normally buy from an ebayer called vaccumtube. his mods rule.
here's some more things:
http://www.stf-electronics.com/ (nice looking products)
also,
www.torresengineering.com (many a kit for you)
You could also build the 18W minimalist like the beauty shown a few threads away, they sound great.
I have to say though, although I would consider some of the project amps at ax84 beginner, they don't sound beginner- a lot of thought has gone into each design and they are world class amps rivalling anything(IMHO).
Regan
Wan't a real beginner Amp that sounds amazing? What I did was build the Fender 5F1 Champ, then later update it to one of the fender vibro champs.
These amps sound good, are easy to build, and the parts are easily adaptable. I know Doberman Ams, Angela music and Ampwares all have the transformers. At ampwares the output transformer is $23.00, and the power is $55.00 (and mind you, with these two trans. You can build all the fender 6V6 amps (Champ, Bronco, Vibro Champ) The caps are quite cheap too. These are the ideal amps for real beginners. + the tubes are real cheap. and easy to work with. A nice Electo Harmonix 6V6 pair is only $20 the 12AX7A is $9.50, and unlike other small amps, this has a tube rectifier section so you get some sag also. the power tube is a 5Y3GT and is $7.00 You can get the whole thing done for under $200 if you want to buy everything. Well thats my honest opinion.
LM 250+
Quote from: sir_modulusYou can get the whole thing done for under $200 if you want to buy everything.
Not to be rude or anything, but if you can build me a 5F1 Champ for under $200, I'll buy a dozen of them (seriously)! Unless you get a bunch of stuff for free and/or don't count your time, it's impossible to save money by building your own amp.
Put another way, unless you're cloning an expensive boutique or vintage piece, you're going to be in the hole (especially if you only do one - it makes sense to buy all the tools only if you're going to be making multiple amps, so you spread the cost around). Taking the 5F1 as an example, your parts breakdown is something like this:
- Transformers: $75-100
- Tubes: $25-50
- Chassis: $20 (plain Hammond) to $70 (WeberVST 5F1 Chassis Kit)
- Speaker: $50-100
- Cabinet: $100-250 depending on wood and covering
- Tube sockets, pots, caps, resistors, solder, pilot light, wire, jacks, feet, corners, etc. etc. $20-50+
What's that you say, you're going to save by fabricating your own chassis and cabinet? Alright then, what about a chassis punch ($30-100), drill press and bits, files, silkscreening... not to mention woodworking tools, a band or mitre saw, planer, joiner, clamps, glues, etc. etc.
Now consider your time - is this going to be a learning experience or weekend hobby project? If you're a beginner you could easily sink 100 hours into this (building, troubleshooting, driving around for parts, etc.) at let's say $5/hour if you're a minimum wage type of guy.
Also consider that SF Champs are easily available in the $200-250 range. If you want something big that you can grow into, look for used off-brand amps, like old Traynors, Sunns, etc. It's far easier/cheaper to mod an old amp than to scratch build.
hello~
i just recently built a minimalist 18watter clone: http://18watt.com/Storage/18minwatt.gif
it was a pretty good challenge to me... i've probably built over a 100 pedals or so.. and designed a few of my own circuits/layouts..
i think that the p1 layout at house of jim seen here: http://members.shaw.ca/house-of-jim/Images/Layouts/P1%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf
thats probably the clearest layout i've seen..
another idea might to be to build a tube pedal project to get used to powering/wiring tubes.. i remember wishing i had a little tube experience when i was building and debugging my 18watter... i'm kind of a slow learner tho..
hope all this helps man,
nightingale
I think i might go for that (p1) --hope it sounds good. Where would i get more infor about it. I went to the link you provided and it dont seem too complicated..But id need values ect...
thanks,
jim
Sorry, I forgot to be more explicit, as I meant without a speaker cab. I was meaning to jsut use the amp as a head. With speaker cab it would cost:
Resistors (mouser):
1/2W @ 0.08 cents ea (Vishay/Dale) x 7 = $00.56
1W @ 0.32 cents ea (Vishay/Dale) x 1 = $00.32
Capacitors (AmpWares):
0.022uf orange drops @ $1.00 ea x 2 = $02.00
0.047uf orange drops @ $1.25 ea x 1 = $01.25
08uf 450V electro @ $3.00 ea x 2 = $06.00
16uf 450V electro @ $4.75 ea x 1 = $04.75
25uf 050V electro @ $1.25 ea x 1 = $01.25
Potentiometer(AmpWares):
1M Audio Taper @ $1.75 ea x1 = $01.75
Transformers(AmpWares):
Power @ $55.00 ea x1 = $55.00
Output @ $32.00 ea x1 = $32.00
Tubes(AmpWares):
6V6 EH = $10.00
12AX7EH = $09.50
5Y3GT = $07.00
Extras(AmpWares):
Knob(black skirted) @ $03.50 ea = $03.50
Power Cord(marshall + input socket) = $07.50
SPST switch (on/off/standby) = $03.75
fuse holder = $02.00
2 amp slo-blo fuse x2 = $01.50
Pilot light + jewel = $04.00
Pilot light assembly = $06.00
Jacks (2 input + 1 output)(radio shack) = $03.00
Octal sockets x2 = $05.50
9 pin socket (/wshield) = $02.25
18 ga. stranded, cloth jacket, 4ft = $02.00
Amp Chassis(hammond)(unknown) = $30.00
Cabinet(misc):
Speaker (Amp W.) C8R 8" Jensen 4 Ohm 25 Watt
$29.00
Corner protectors (Amp W. with lip + screws x 4
$06.00
Speaker Cloth (dunno)the one at ampwares is WAY to big, so roughly
$05.00
Wood (MDF 1/2 INCH) sides and top/bottom is like $30-$40
Wood (MDF 3/4 INCH) Front/Back is like $20
That makes the total:
Amp: $202.38
Cabinet: $100
Total $302.38
So, it is pretty cheap and $200 for the amp. That cab is $100 extra, and this is with using pretty good components.
LM 250+
jimbob~
here is the link: http://www.ax84.com/home.html
it was cruzing this site that gave me the "flame" to build an amp..
there are loads of sounds samples, and pictures of every project.. and some safety imformation..
there is even an amazing theory that goes with the P1 amp: http://ax84.com/media/ax84_m35.pdf
this theory PDF tought me more about electronic theory than just about anything i have seen.. it explains it in a very slow simple way..
just for a heads up~
drillling the steel chassis was really hard for me.. especially the tube socket holes, it got a little scary with my drill press... if $ is not as much as a concern... it might save trouble to buy a pre-punched chassis..
here are some hot sites that sell amp building stuff.. they are fun to cruz if you are considering a build...
http://hoffmanamps.com/ lots of hidden info....
http://www.angela.com/
http://mojotone.com/http://mojotone.com/ has lots of chassis/cabs...
http://tubesandmore.com/ i've gootne great stuff on sale here!
http://ampwares.com/ huge inventory!
http://18watt.com/index.php last but not least....
enjoy!
Quotethis theory PDF tought me more about electronic theory than just about anything i have seen.. it explains it in a very slow simple way..
Im glad its slow like that so i can figure it out as well. :)
I appreciate the time you spent finding me the links ect...im going to give them a look .
jim
well i was thinking about a vox ac 30...without the tremolo channel that would be my 1st choice since i'm a huge brian may fan...
it is not a high gain amp so i believe i won't have any great problem with oscillation as stated above
then i would go for something like a nice tweed fender (princeton etc) or a vintage marshall
what do you think about that is it easy for the first tube amp project to build a vox?
no problem jimbob~
best luck gathering the parts, and building your amp..
changes~
i am far from an amp building expert.. but the problems i see with building the ac30 as a 1st build..
first, wiring all of the extra pots/jacks, and building the tone control section..
here is the closest thing to an ac30 lite vesrion i am aware of: http://hoffmanamps.com/images/AC30.gif
good layouts are important for making your turret/eyelet board IMO...
if you go to www.ax84.com there is a project called the voxy lady... it might be worth taking a look at too..? not sure..?
it als helped me alot to take the time and study the schematic, and layout and really understand waht the stages/parts funtion is to the circuit before
you start the build..
hope this helps,
I like Doug Hammond's Octal Fatness. It's a great amp, and it's not too complicated to build. About a 5 watt amp or so.
My first build was the Firefly, then a Matchless Spitfire clone. My latest build is the Octal Fatness.
I agree with Paul for more than 1 reason, first off the Vox is a class A amp, They are very sensitive to the Bais that you need to know a lot about, Most Vox's that I've worked on had problem's with bais and burnt out part's, mostly due to the uneducated salesman at the local music supply store, there fav saying is, " sure no problem, just shove them new tube's in there, it'll work " yeah, if your lucky maybe a few hour's,
the best bet for someone wanting to learn about amp's is start out with a single ended tube amp, like a champ, with cathode or fixed bais, the amp has a different attitude depending on which method you choose,
or build a AB amp push pull, they are the most forgiving amp's.
I'm not saying a vox is not a good amp to build, i'm just saying it's not a good amp for a beginner to build.
Just like here, Aron has some nice simple build's to get you started, and that's what you should do if your gonna build tube amp's, start out easy, it's much simpler to debug the problem's you may have if it's only got 3 or 4 tube's.
I think Doug's Octal Fatness would be a great project if you wanna get introduced to tube's, and Doug has it already layed out with several good thread's with picture's and spec's with some good soundclip's of what you get if you do it right.
There are a lot of tube project's to pick from,Choose one and have fun,
Johnny
I wouldn't tackle an ac30 right out off the bat, your looking at a lot of expense in parts that you could ruin pretty easy, and ac30's are finicky amps. If you are dead set on going this route what about the ac15, matchless spitfire, or better yet, the marshall 18W with the ef86 channel added on, this is a well rounded amp that will get lots of good tone.
Regan
The Matchless Spitfire is a 15 watt Class AB amp using a pair of EL84s with a high bias current. A lot of people have done that one for their first build. If you do build it, I would suggest that you get the 15 watt transformer set from West Labs. It costs a little more, but I think it's worth the investment.
The Octal Fatness is a ~5 watt true Class A amp that uses a single 6V6 power tube.
The Firefly is about a 1 watt amp that uses a 12AU7 in a self-split configuration. This amp is also a push-pull type. I think it's a Class A amp, IIRC.
If it's single ended, 1 power tube, it's a class, no push/pull !
Johnny
Quote from: sir_modulusSo, it is pretty cheap and $200 for the amp. That cab is $100 extra, and this is with using pretty good components.
An amp is pretty useless without a cab, so don't discount that cost :) :)
Like I said before, $300 for a scratch build is a lot once you consider the price of used amps. $300 will easily get you a SF Champ with $$ left over, and you don't have to buy any tools or put anything together.
Quote from: cdLike I said before, $300 for a scratch build is a lot once you consider the price of used amps. $300 will easily get you a SF Champ with $$ left over, and you don't have to buy any tools or put anything together.
But you don't get the fun of building your own amp! :D 8)
can i jump on the price wars too..
Potentiometer(circuit speicalist):
1M Audio Taper @ ea x1 = $01.49
Transformers(antique electronics):
Power @ $35.00 ea x1 = $35.00
Output @ $25.16 ea x1 = $25.16
Tubes(Ansil):
12AX7EH = $04.50
5Y3GT = $04.00
Extras:
Knob(black skirted) 1$
Power Cord(marshall + input socket) = $5
SPST switch (on/off/standby) = $1
Jumbo Led and holder for pilot light. $4.50
Jacks (2 input + 1 output)(switchcraft) = $03.00
9 pin socket (/wshield) = $01.95
18 ga. stranded, shielded, 25ft = $02.00
Amp Chassis(circuit specialist)(hammond D style box) = $10.00
circuit also has quite a few nice capacitors cheap there too.. there are plenty of resources on the web to find great deals.
sorry my .02
Thanks Ansil,
What my point was that unlike many other amps, The champ(and other little fender amps) have decent output, are easy to build, use cheap and readily available tubes, have many little guides and simple mods, and the maintainence is much lower (as even the biasing is easy)
Some of the above mentioned amps can be a little bit of a problem:(please take no offence in what I say as I mean it in a respectful manner)
Firefly: this is good for a first tube build, but for the price, the power output is not that great
Octal fatness: real good amp, but the input tube is not very easy to find.
Vox: very difficult to maintain(as before mentioned)
18 Watter: Uses more tubes and for a more experianced builder, but is equal if not better to the champ for cost to performance to ease of building.
So, IMO, you should embark on a small fender amp(again I recommend Champs or Princeton's for the above mentioned reasons) or a AX84 P1 if you do not feel too confident on your abilities, but if you feel more confident, go on to do a minimanistic 18Watter clone.
LM 250+
Quote from: Ansilcircuit also has quite a few nice capacitors cheap there too.. there are plenty of resources on the web to find great deals.
If you don't buy as much as you can from one place, or locally, you're shooting yourself in the foot because of shipping costs.
Look, I don't want to get into a d*ck waving contest over prices, but there is no way you can one-off build a Champ clone from scratch and come out ahead $$$ wise. And by "clone" I mean a reasonable visual copy - proper chassis, cabinet, maybe even a faceplate. Throwing everything together into a project box so you have to keep the pets & kids away while you play the thing does not count. Going by the initial post, $$$ is the #1 primary concern - little $$$ to build, no $$$ later for large improvements. In that case, used is your best bet.
Quote from: cdQuote from: Ansilcircuit also has quite a few nice capacitors cheap there too.. there are plenty of resources on the web to find great deals.
If you don't buy as much as you can from one place, or locally, you're shooting yourself in the foot because of shipping costs.
Look, I don't want to get into a d*ck waving contest over prices, but there is no way you can one-off build a Champ clone from scratch and come out ahead $$$ wise. And by "clone" I mean a reasonable visual copy - proper chassis, cabinet, maybe even a faceplate. Throwing everything together into a project box so you have to keep the pets & kids away while you play the thing does not count. Going by the initial post, $$$ is the #1 primary concern - little $$$ to build, no $$$ later for large improvements. In that case, used is your best bet.
One word about the Octal Fatness: The 6SJ7 tubes are readily available on ebay for cheap. I got three of them for $15.00...
;lkj
If you want to build replicas of popular amps checkout:
www.ceriatone.com
His prices are very reasonable. Nik is a great guy and really helpful. I'm going to buy a matchless spitfire kit from him. He sells custom wound transformer sets (PT, OT choke) for $60 which he mentioned is better than the hammond stuff.
nice link there
I've built a Tweed Deluxe and a Marshall 18 watter. The Vox AC-30 is supposed to be one of the more difficult builds and probably not a good idea as a first project. There are some Matchless projects that are Class-A bias and might get a Vox-like sound in a simpler project.
Mt first project was from a kit and I think this is a very good way to start. I got mine from Clark Amplification but he doesn't sell them now. I have noticed that there are several companies selling nice looking kits though. Maybe you should check out these too.
http://www.tubetoneamps.com/index.html
http://www.missionamps.com/
http://elektro.cmhnet.org/~graydon/18wattmain.html
These amps look great but... they're still little combos!
We want great powerful rock n roll Heads ! NO?
ok you got me... i forget about the vox thing i believe you're right
now i am thinking between a fender,octal fatness and something from ax84. may be p1 extreme but from the samples i heard i'm not too impressed about it
all i want is a tube amp with a nice clean channel where i can use all the pedals i have bought or built for small club gigs...
any sound samples from the octal fatness Doug?
[;lkj
I have some sounds of my Octal Fatness on my OF page, too.
Question:
Can i survive in the studio with an Octal Fatness plugged into a 4x12 cabinet while the other guitarist has a marshall valvestate 100W.or do i have to build something with more wattage like the p1 extreme?
uh oh....you've got an opposite view. keeping up with a 100W valvestate is no easy task. something like that won't be easy at all. You'd need a big amp(like a Bassman (the 4x10 one)). An octal fatness is like a champ. In that case you have no luck. you'll get better tube tone than him, and most amps will be cheaper than a valvestate (those things are crazily overpriced). As we all said, i'd go for a small amp, then later make like a 50 or 100W plexi (cranked 100W plexi into a 4 x 12 combo is just painfullly loud).
Well, it depends on how loud he plays that 100 watt amp. If it's at modest levels, you may not have a problem at all. I took my Octal Fatness to church one day just to see it could keep up. Our stage level is about 90dB, and we mic the amps and all that stuff. Anyhow, it did fine, and I didn't have all the controls dimed, either. FWIW.
you're right, but i still think, you can't build a champ-like-amp in the eyes that with a 4x12, it's be loud. You gotta under stand that you can keep up with a decent amp, but not massive ones. First amp you build should be for learning and maybe some studio where yhou can get nice dimed amp tone without blown eardrums (try diming a plexi 100 with a 4x12 in a small room, and see how your eardrums react). If your not to experianced that is. If your real good, you can shoot a plexi down as your first project, but maintainance for high voltage circuits etc... must be learned gracefully before takling one of those (like go through a nice little amp to learn how to deal with Hi-Pot circuits.
Really if you think you can take it, I nice loud amp would be something like a Fender Pro 5E5 that has two inst. inputs, and two mic input (good for studio) plus indiv. volumes for each, is about 50Watts, and has a lower parts count (but has 6 tubes including rectifier), or something like a vibro lux(5 tubes (2 6V6)) which has nice volume + reverb.
Thats my advice.
I do small club gigs with an unmiked Traynor WRYCV20 that is 15 watts Class A. The other guitar player uses a Peavey Classic 50 and our drummer is not known for restraint, and I keep up OK. SO you don't necc. need big watts. As far as building an amp goes, I know this is a DIY forum, but it really sounds like buying used would be your best bet if your main concern is cost and having something to play at gigs. You could start gigging a lot sooner and make a few bucks to pay for your DIY project :lol:
Kerry M
Quote from: changesQuestion:
Can i survive in the studio with an Octal Fatness plugged into a 4x12 cabinet while the other guitarist has a marshall valvestate 100W.or do i have to build something with more wattage like the p1 extreme?
hey changes i sent you a pm message i have some spare tube stuff lying around that i had gotten for another project but it didint 'happen. anyway i left a lot of info in the pm