Is there any reason why the forum shouldn't be readable by only the members?
Just wondering??
Quote from: aronIs there any reason why the forum shouldn't be readable by only the members?
Just wondering??
I belive the original thinking was that it would prevent anonymous trolls and having information stolen by companies. I belive my personal stance when the forum changed and this topic came up was the reading of the forum should be open to guests since someone could use a anonymous email address to read the forum but posting should still be availble only to members.
I belive that option does exsist within phpBB.
Andrew
I dont see that as a big problem, join, then "join in" but it will prevent new people from "browsing" for a few weeks, just as I did ! ?
Marty.
You say "Only the members" like there is some exclusiveness involved. To the best of my knowledge, there are no criteria for "membership" other than desiring it. In which case, what exactly would membership filter out?
Even long-time deserving members have had bouts of petulance now and then, so it's not as if one could defend against flame wars by restricting membership. Could it prevent others from using "our R&D"? Nah. I'm pretty confident that most people/companies who stand the remotest chance of making some money from new ideas have large teams of people way ahead of us. Even if a technical idea, a component value, or a schematic never showed up hear again, such companies stand to make far more money off of knowing what features we like than from knowing how we *made* those features.
I think the majority of "behavioural problems" with people here stem from an ever-expanding and ever-diversifying community. That increases the likelihood of people misunderstanding each other and stepping on toes. It's a bit like a huge immigrant community. It increases the opportunities for the same questions to be asked over and over (here's a Christmas project for the terminally bored: go through the archives and count up the number of times "What's the best fuzz?" has been asked, per year, since the inception of the forum), and for soem people to be bored or frustrated.
Does that mean the answer to such problems lie in restricting the number of members/users? Nah. The whole point is to spread the DIY gospel and provide a huge resource to each other. Stick me, Ton, Mike, Steve, RG, Aron, Jack, Doug, Joe, Tim, Tom, the ROG people and Francisco in a room on our own and we'd run out of stuff to say pretty soon after and the innovation stream would dry up faster than you'd think. Very often it is the naive questions that cause people to rethink things, or even just restate them in a way that helps stuff to make sense to them. Happens in science all the time.
Nope, I think the best hope for the vitality cameraderie of this site is to focus as tightly and sharply as possible, on pedals, mods, and learning how stuff works. If it's about one thing and one thing only (more or less), it will draw out the professionalism and hunger for information in everyone. The moment it veers off into everything for everybody, it'll fall apart. Even though I've posted there, I *still* have some misgivings about the wisdom of having an OT forum. If you look at the open forum and OT forum at Ampage, there are people who post there and simply never post anywhere else.
When he established "The Well" on-line community in the San Francisco area, way back at the start of all this, Stewart Brand ( http://www.well.com/user/sbb/ ) insisted that people use their actual names, because he felt that misbehaviour would be more likely to occur in electronic environments when there was no accountability. As much fun as it is to use humorous handles, it is the facelessness of on-line forums that often makes it possible for people to behave to each in ways they would not think of doing in their everyday face-to-face lives. I'm not advocating a draconian measure that says you MUST use your full name when posting or lurking here. But, I *will* suggest that stronger guarantees of good behaviour can be offered if more people do so. I can be as big an ass as anyone else if I'm anonymous, but if my name is there for all to see, then there is a public record of my behaviour and I tend to act a little more responsibly.
Familiarity breeds contempt. :evil:
Unfortunately. :cry:
I however, love almost everybody! :D
RDV
I don't think it would be a solution, and it could even make things worst for you.
One day, you could have to say somebody that he is not welcome anymore as a member. Not always easy to decide when it's time to do that.
Gilles C.
Btw, Thanks for the EDIT function. I had to use it again to correct a few words... :)
Hello Hello--
Thanks for posting this, Aron. I didn't see how "That Thread" played out [wish that I had...] but since Doug has apparently left the forum there has been an air of "something's not quite right around here".
I don't know if the cure would be worse then the problem but I don't see anything wrong with your idea. Since I don't know if any one person [or, "type" of person] is really to blame, it's dificult to comment on a solution. No matter how tall the walls are there's always gonna be somebody that gets over them.
Brian.
it would stop anonymous browsers from stealing ideas i suppose, but it would stop people from lurking and searching archives before they post to see how the forum works...people who have lurked rather than just dived right in generally know not to ask for ZVEX schematics, etc.
Quote from: aronIs there any reason why the forum shouldn't be readable by only the members?
Just wondering??
Aron:
Please don't change anything in the operation of the forum. There is nothing you or anyone else could have reasonably done to prevent the events caused or exacerbated by the infamous "?" thread. Written language is only so effective a means of communication. When you think about it, sometimes it's a miracle that it works at all. Doug may be back, he may not. It will be a great, keenly-felt loss if he does not come back, but I have to believe that there was more than just a discussion thread to produce such a reaction.
whatever you think is best, aron.
i left ampage because of the flames and bullshit. i like the way you and
peter run the ship. i will gladly play be the rules per say.
good health, :wink:
- tom pollock
Quote from: Mark Hammer...what features we like than from knowing how we *made* those features...
To find out
which features are being favoured lately,
I (actively) participate/browse in the HC FX forum, and check around in our local and the celebrities musicians scene...
How to
make/do those features: well, some people here may have noticed, that I don`t ask too much technical questions here...
QuoteStick me, Ton, Mike, Steve, RG, Aron, Jack, Doug, Joe, Tim, Tom, the ROG people and Francisco in a room on our own and we'd run out of stuff to say pretty soon after and the innovation stream would dry up faster than you'd think.
I`d love to meet Mr. Vex in that room, too... (and Mrs. Ebneter);
don`t think we`d run out of stuff,
but
whatever would evolve out of that, would probably be the finest stuff concerning analog stompbox/sound/synthesis/mojo/synergy,
which however would be:
a) not commercially realizable,
b) not at all DIY-able,
c)
beyond the current popular/requested features
d) never-ending...
e) in turn extremely tweakable, thus requireing an extra forum...
[here`s hoping, the edit button survives till tomorrow]
I have never joined a forum unless i could read it first. Why would I?? Why would anyone?? there are enough forums around without having to jump thru hoops.
Yep, read-only to non members, then, part of the membership agreement should be...to be cool and abide. If one doesn't, ...boot 'em!
Like some other "unsettled" creative types of people, I have an aversion to rules and regulations.
What initially, and continues to impress me, about the forum is that it is;
a model of free speech and diversity,
a "classless" society (noobs are welcome, etc.),
a place of personal development ("learning"), and
good natured and fun ("polite").
To have a membership system might impact on some of these, so I'm a little concerned with the concept.
Aron,
First of all, I must say that you and Peter do an excellent job, and the forum is a great environment, and I can't imagine how it can be improved without it being a full time job for somebody.
I don't think you can keep pros from benefiting from the info, there is too much grey area there- what is cosidered a pro etc.
I wouldn't mind seeing a forum that we have to give a real name register etc. I can't see how that would be a problem unless somebody has something to hide.
I was really choked by the Kiki troll in the thread Doug walked out on, I don't think posting like that should be allowed and I think whomever it is should be banned. If you can't say it with the name you go by regularly, you shouldn't say it. Its not like anybody is going to come after you with a bat or anything. I think the ideal would be a registry with a real name, and maybe a reminder at the top of the page to check the FAQ?
Regan
Quote from: Paul Perry (Frostwave)I have never joined a forum unless i could read it first. Why would I?? Why would anyone?? there are enough forums around without having to jump thru hoops.
that's true, point taken, frostman 8)
- tom
http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?p=47&highlight=#47
I`d stick with my statement in that (old) thread...
(seen that the "?" thread was an argument amongst longterm members with just a minor interference by an "on-jumper", who very probably is a very well-respected "oldie" here in his "other life").
Here's my thought, if the forum required membership and people had to "try" to use their real names, I think it might be a better place.
New people will not remember that there was a time when we called each other by our real names more often than not.
I'm old fashioned but calling someone "Mark" is much better than calling hime diode21 (unless that's his/her real name).
I had another thought too. What if all the info was public, but not right away? If people were able to see that cool things were happening, but that they would not be able to read the most current 2 months or so without joining, they would probably want to sign up and contribute.
These are just ideas I am having.
:)
my name is Anthonie Theodoor - friends (and relatives) call me "Ton" - I`m old fashioned (~late 60`s, early 70`s...), too.
(my last name can be read on my homepage).
Though I`m also interested in modern solidstate stuff,
I don`t mind being addressed as: "Puretube" in the future...
:)
(joking: wonder who`ll turn out to be: MarkII ?)
p.s.: no need for the edit button in this post.
Hi!
On some forums the administrator has to aprove each post for it to apear on the board, maybe this could be done on new members?
It has the drawback of requiring Aron or Peter checking every new message... to much work and probably not a good idea
By the way I dont mind using my real name and don't think anybody can say it's a heavy restriction, but I'm not sure if it would help prevent trolling
Good luck to everyone, the forum is still a great place
Regards
Miguel Canel
QuoteI have never joined a forum unless i could read it first. Why would I?? Why would anyone?? there are enough forums around without having to jump thru hoops.
I have to agree with that statement. If I don't know what's going on I'm not sticking my head in. While it probably would discourage "flame wars" (which really isn't much of a problem around here) I feel it would also discourage people from joining. New blood = new ideas in many cases. I think the good outweighs the bad in this case.
AL
I suppose I should clarify. It's not so much the use of handles, but the use of nothing BUT handles. As the note from Miguel preceding mine clearly illustrates, people can take steps to identify themselves personally AND still use a handle for posting. The practical issue is that they have to be sure to sign each note with their name (first name at least), so it's just easier to post under one's name rather than handle. I always use my full name as my ID since it clearly identifies me and I don't have to do any extra work in that direction.
The use of names is not just to prevent people from misbehaving under conditions of anonymity. It is also so much easier for purposes of constructing notes and for referring others to relevant posts. For instance, do I refer someone to "puretube" or Ton, bioroids or Miguel, Uncle Boko or Steve? If I slip and call someone by the name I know them by, does that confuse others? It's also so much easier when directing comments to someone, and much more conversation-like when you can use a person's name. Besides, if you have a brilliant idea that sets all DIY-ers' hearts atwitter, would you rather have it attributed to YOU, yourself, or to a letters-plus-digits-character-string pseudonym?
Again, not an insistence on forcing people to do something they have reasons to be uncomfortable with, just a list of reasons why it's a good practice to follow and a benefit to what we're collectively trying to accomplish.
(Note: Initials are fine too, if there is a connection to a name, like what Ricky Don does.)
I feel I have the best grasp on how to deal with the problems, mainly because I've been the problem before. I got kicked off of one forum for calling the guy that runs it an idiot for not wearing a helmet while riding motorcycles. :lol:
Making the forum readable only to members doesn't do anything to curb the trolls. All it means is that they have to join before they can talk shit. Setting it up so only members can post is a better solution since people that want to lurk for a while and soak up some info before posting can do so. Unfortunately, the ONLY way to deal with trolls is diligence. You can not stop them unless you start approving every post made on the forum, and that just won't work. The best thing to do is make the forum read-only to non-members and just continue on as you have been.
The use of real names is nothing but a speed bump, and a small one at that. It's quite simple to just make up a new one. I can pick up a phone book and have a few hundred thousand at my disposal. It wouldn't prevent trolling, it would just make trolls think up names better than "QWERTYUIOP".
And about anonymous people stealing ideas... give me a break. In my time here (longer than my join date lets on. I posted on the old forum a couple of years ago, and lurked on both for a good long while before joining) I have seen a few hundred variations of existing circuits, with maybe a handful of new ideas. When you post your ideas on a public forum that anyone can read or post to, you set yourself up to have ideas yoinked. If you don't want that to happen, keep them to yourself. That's the ONLY way to not have ideas stolen, because the second you publish it anyone can LEGALLY copy it and sell it as their own, assuming it isn't so outrageously inventive that you have a patent on it.
You can't eliminate trolls so you just have to deal with them. Making the forum read-only to non-members is a good start (I thought it was already like this, actually). Approving every post that newbies make is time consuming, but it's also the best way of ensuring that trolls don't slip in. What you may want to do if you go that route is give a few other people you trust the ability to approve messages. I don't know how the forum software works so that may not be feasible, but it's something to think about if possible.
Very good points all! This kind of thread makes me very happy! 8)
OK, another simple option is to use the signatures to put your name in there.
In any case, these were just ideas I had. If at all possible I'd like to reduce the possiblity of losing people like Doug H in the future if you know what I mean. :?
there are two things that may be useful/crap whichever you think. one would be to have the beginners forum readable to the public and the building your own stomp box forum for members only
also why not try to have a small extra site where everybody has a small profile. i realise that everybody already has one but tbh it doesnt give space for that much info. if each person had a better profile where they could put up their real name, where in the world they are, a bit about them, maybe a picture and something about how large/small their electronics knowledge is it would help to give everyone a face while still keeping handles etc.
just a thought
As a long-time "member" I have to say that trolls and trolling have been a particularly rare occurrence. There have been people who responded unfavourably to things that were said in the absence of perspective, and there have been tiffs and angry departures, but I have seen precious little explicitly directed at irritating or provoking people. And in the overwhelming majority of cases where anger entered into it, people have generally apologized (or at least backed off and agreed to disagree), and things have gone back to normal very quickly and smoothly.
As for names, I concur that it is but a speedbump, although speed bumps can make a big difference. The best insurance of good behaviour here is likely the absence or minimal presence of topics other than the focus of interest, and the "high signal to noise ratio", as some have put it. If the information and experience to be found here (much of it only elicited in response to one's questions) is so plentiful as to be a crucial resource for people, and one they could ill-afford to forfeit, then they'll do what they need to to keep in its good graces. People tend not to bite the hand that feeds. Use of names and any sort of membership arrangement are simply add-ons that improve circumstances for good behaviour a little more.
I cannot nor would not speak for Doug, but many of the departures from this forum, be they temporary or permanent seem to be tied to personal issues outside of this forum. We discuss circuits here. I just don't see why there has to be much beyond that, issue-wise. I refuse to lose my cool over a bunch of letters on a screen anymore.
RDV