When I created the OT forum I believe I made a mistake when I allowed any type of discussion there. I really wanted it to be music-related only. I didn't want there to be any religious or political debates on that forum at all.
Unfortunately I didn't write this and the OT forum took on a life of its own. I think that at the start of the new year I need to review the topics allowed on that forum. There are plenty of other places to debate topics that I feel don't belong on this site.
What do you think?
p.s. I believe that for the most part the OT forum has been ok although at least a couple of people have left because of it.
i agree with the music related rule.
crp
Like deep fried food, tastes SOOOO good but that doesn't mean it's good for you. :wink:
Sometimes a person needs a little nudge to stay away from what tempts them. So, yeah, if you want to focus OT more, personally I'm alright with that. If I want to get into an argument with a musician about religion I think I have some idea where I can do that. :lol:
I agree with music-related OT only for the lounge. Since the forum is narrowly focused about FX, it should be treated like a bar: no politics or religion, leave it outside the door. That includes their sub-topics: war, gun control, etc.
I agree with FretWire, like no stupid issues, or war/politics, but sure stuff like amp building questions, gear questions/ etc... That's all good stuff
Nish
While I am all for the music-related-only restrictions, I'm not sure how you're going to enforce that without wholesale deletion of unruly threads or user sanctions - look how quickly the Dimebag thread morphed into the US Gun Culture thread! These problems show up whenever you get a bunch of passionate, intelligent people together, and the sense of anonymity on the web seems to aggravate them. If you're willing to set some concrete limits, and then enforce them without exception, even if that involves suspending individuals' privileges, you can probably get the OT Lounge under control in short order, but there's no way to know if that's going to cause more people to leave than the inflammatory posts did. I'm sure glad I don't have to decide which is the lesser of the two evils!
Either way it goes, I think there is much to discuss in this time of the 'quickening'. I like discussing it with my buddies [the whole pie], but would be happy to have the [smaller half] still available to discuss electronics with them. I like that people read stuff [seen as truth by some] that offends them, I don't like when they leave because of it.
I am probably one of the 'main offenders' as far as babbling about world events and politics.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Your perception is how things are for you, changing it may be percieved as good, and or bad.
I find the news on the forum useful and pretty good, mass media...not so good, don't have much use for it.
Either way it goes, you guys are great. I too often let too much out, info/opinion wise, some may see this as not appreciating the forum, by offending members. You are probably right, please accept apologies.
Here are three reasons I see for why people post about Politics etc.
1.They want or need help understanding something.
2.They want to offer a different point of view.
3. They want to impose a mindset on others.
I've done all three here.
If you can sort these out, and form a balanced value system for them that allows free flow of info you're doin' good.
Otherwise it seems open posting [hopefully others will show more restraint than myself about posting sensative information] will be pretty much as it has [for the rest of this day], fortunately, as we all well know, circumventing the transfer of information to your perception from a CRT'd page is exactly 1 mouse click away.
I'm failing to see where issues can be exacted as stupid, especially from only one persons perspective, at one point in time.
We've all had a taste of the 'other sides perception of war', [it pains me to say 'sides', but it's the easiest way for me to make my point here], if not study up a little, that's old enough I think we can agree. I certainly have my perception on things...lol.
Anyway before we decide to close open discussion [thank you Aron for letting us discuss what I see as an important matter to many here], try to imagine it as a way to create positive results for the greatest awareness...in my case this awareness would include the living Immune systems of rare species about to become extinct, as well as humans...[that's possibly another post], to working up that some prototypes of some of the light speed engine types I typed about a long time ago. IIUC the Swiss and some dudes at USC are working up some cool stuff....takes ALOT of Tech and a big stable place of earth or rock to do it though...maybe there's a better way?
There are myriad things to discuss these days, and, IMO, and I'm not just trying to be flattering here, there are some really great thinkers who access the home they have here through their computers. I'd like to think we can actually see this as all interrelated, our awareness depends on everyone.
I apoligize for being a bad friend, one who divides others friendships.
I seems I shouldn't have taken for granted that everyone sees the 'one click away from not seeing that' vibe the way I do.
Thinking is easy, typing is much harder...involves alot of filtering and sorting...I'm learning, but I'm not that good at it yet.
I don't think the lounge is out of control at all. Limiting to music related OT is a preventative move. Personally, if Aron decides it will be music OT only, and someone is that offended that they can't post way-OT on an effects forum, they probably wouldn't be missed anyways.
Look at HC, they have an OT section. After a while, that wasn't enough for some people who would rather just hang out, and chat about all sorts of OT stuff. So then they start posting the OT in the regular sections, turning them into chat rooms that once in a while actually go ON TOPIC. The effects section is at least 50% OT now. And they allow an idiotic amount of space for signitures that makes every thread 10x longer. Full of spam because no one bothers to use the for sale section. Linking to your sale is ok, but thread after thread has direct spam.
I'd love to moderate the HC effects section for one week. It would be a lot shorter, but much more useful and informative. I know some people here are HC regulars, and I'm sure they'd agree that it's annoying trying to have true fx related threads without the dumbshit creeping in. How many pro pedal builders link to the HC effects section? None! It has no credibility or respect. Sure, it does have many pro builders that post, but they are basically politicing to sell their wares. Plus, the non-DIY regulars are easier to BS about your latest ckt invention that you recently asked how to build on this forum. How many link to this forum? Plenty. Very respected out there in fx-land. I'd love a shot at bringing respect to HC's effects section.
To HC's credit, they do have a lot of great players who don't build, but have valueable opinions on fx from actually playing them. They too suffer from the heavy amount of OT on that forum.
So Aron, keep it FX and music related OT. A nice narrow focus, and the decent people who come here makes this forum great. Think about limiting sigatures also, before it even becomes a problem
I am all for keeping the OT forum music related only - or at least halting any political/religious discussions.
I may have participated in some of the offending discussions, but I have no desire to initiate one. Sometimes I just see something that riles me a bit and I gotta jump in and say something :roll: .
In the end I always feel like I just wasted my time and alienated others or myself.
If some people are really enjoying themselves though, go ahead and keep things as they are. I can exercise a little more restraint and stay out of it (I hope :wink: )
One last thing: When I first came to this site I was surprised to find political discussions present at all :? . Not something I would have expected at an electronics forum.
OT is like TV.
U can change channel,
or
U can turn it OFF.
Don't touch THAT dial!
.....
Unless U want 2.
:lol:
I prefer when it's music related, but then, it's my taste.
If I wanted to go really OT, I would go to another place (I don't...), but I come here for effect/music related things.
Trying to enforce a music only policy sounds like more trouble than it's worth. The folks that want to engage in the religious/ political discussions should make arrangements to meet at some other forum! :lol: Or subscribe to alt.guitar.amps :roll: I don't get the whole "I'm leaving the forum" thing anyhow, so I can't figure out people who get their knickers in a twist over some foolish BB thread and take their ball (or posts) and go home. Where I'm from, the technical term for those people would be *Large Felines* , but we use the common name.
Kerry M
Jeez, isn't it common sense that if you DON'T want the conversation to get unruly, you NEVER mention religion or politics? It came up for me time and time again at various holiday get-togethers the past couple of weeks - I have things that I believe very strongly in, which can and do clash with others, but it certainly wasn't in the spirit of the holidays so I kept quiet. Similarly, I don't think that sort of fighting is in the spirit of the board (OT or otherwise) - so is it too hard to ask folks to check their R&P egos at the door? If you can't control yourself, don't read the OT forum. Unless aron wants to moderate things in a strict debate fashion, R&P arguments are apt to go in circles, no matter how concise, coherent, or fact driven you think you may be.
So should things be music related only... well, that effectively turns it onto a MUSIC (but non-fx related) forum. Which is fine with me.
I certainly appreciate the time, effort, and expense Aron & Peter put into the Forum.
Personally, I like having somewhere to talk politics etc, but there certainly are plenty of other places to go!!!
Naturally I'll go with whatever Aron wants. The idea of a "off-topic but music and non-stompbox music technology (no politics or religion)" area would (i hope) get the non-stompbox stuff out of the main forum, and not upset people.
In any case, i find the daily news far more offensive than anything that anyone could say on this list :oops: <delete politics> :oops:
Whatever is decided, remember the only way to make lists lawabiding is to have someone remove offendign material, the same way that if graffiti is left on your wall for a day, it generates more.
I thought that I had It right..........
Forum for the STOMP BOX questions and show and tell.
and the O.T. for the other questions.............
Which I used for electronically related queries that had not as much to do with "pedals".
But sometimes with the independently stated rules,I get confused as to what is acceptable for which forum and what is not.
In light of that thread, a no politics/religion rule would probably be a wise move, either that or just delete those sort of threads if people start insulting one another (that did surprise me). I don’t think the lounge should be restricted to just music though, things like humourous posts bring people together and should continue (be encouraged even).
I rarely visit other forums as I don’t have the time, so I enjoy the opportunity to converse with others from all walks of life and from all corners of the globe about all sorts of issues via the lounge - the internet is a wonderful thing!
As mentioned already, I can’t think of any instance where someone has left the forum over anything posted in the lounge. Neither do I see any evidence of the aftermath of that thread spilling out on to this forum, ie people not answering someone’s question because they were offended by something they said. I can only speak for myself, but if Saddam Hussein posts here and wants to know how to bias a fuzz face, I’m in (might make him a more decent chap)!
I wonder if the Red Cross bring him breadboards?
OT is just that "Off Topic" the topic being electronics and related in particular to stompbox's.
EVERYTHING else is "Off Topic" . . . . I dont see the problem :?
If you dont like a post/topic ignore it, or if it's HIGHLY offensive, ask for it to be removed, I did once and it was.
Marty.
I don't have a problem with any kind of discussion in the OT forum. I can agree to agree or disagree about something and not get offended. I don't know why other people can't do the same. :?
Also, I like to see how other musicians see things. You probably won't get a musician's perspective at a non-music forum.
Quote from: Paul MarossyI don't have a problem with any kind of discussion in the OT forum. I can agree to agree or disagree about something and not get offended. I don't know why other people can't do the same. :?
Also, I like to see how other musicians see things. You probably won't get a musician's perspective at a non-music forum.
I couldn't agree more with you Paul.....
I even think there should be place for political discussion, provided that everyone gets treated with respect! :?
Feardom of information...not necessary IMO.
Words can't hurt you unless you let them.
"Smallpox" will be on FX, doesn't sound all that entertaining, and I think the trailer tells the basic tale...'I'ts all true, it just hasn't happened yet". I think I'll forego exposing myself to that program...not that I don't believe the trailers 'story', I just didn't want to have to see it on TV...yet. I understand the scenario, just don't particularly have a taste for it.
But this kind of thinking and technology does exist, perhaps if we just look the other way, we'll be better off...'What you don't know cant hurt you'...lol.
If we 'sleep through' the events that shape our world, we may not like what we see when we 'wake up'.
Perhaps we are better off letting the Mass Media filter/decide what information we should see?
The more internet places that disallow open discussion, the less people can form their own views...I'm seeing alot of 'heavily saturated distortion' on mass media news, movies, events and general programming.
Fighting for free flow of info is a good fight IMO.
Joke: According to our math, we get 9, and you get...2....[better than nothing or death eh?].
'Pay or Share'...
When viewing a partial picture, and failing reading between the lines, double standards may not be seen...who doesn't understand this?
I am aware, therefore all is as it should be.
i agree totally. i come here to learn more about building and fixing fx. i already know how strange the world is. this is a great forum for information exchange. i'd hate to see it diminish.
Quotethis is a great forum for information exchange. i'd hate to see it diminish.
My feelings, too.
I'm generally with gez on this. When a bunch of people with an-off-the-wall interest like building guitar effects boxes get together, there's a good chance that they'll have other interests in common - playing guitar; listening to music; building electronic gadgets not music-related; messing with organs and synthesizers; dumpster-diving; marvelling at e-bay idiocy; sharing daft jokes; etc. etc. It strikes me that a 'lounge' is a place for like-minded people to get together and explore these other interests that they have in common (or disagree about).
Of course, there will be some who walk into the party, get obnoxious, start fights, throw up on the carpets, and then walk out because they hear something they don't like. These people are called BORES and we're better off without them. Others wander from conversation to conversation to find a place where they can contribute something positive. This way, we can get to know each other better, and learn whose views and opinions we trust, or at least agree with, most.
As with TV, we have the opportunity to change channels, switch off, or write a letter of complaint. My personal view is that life is too short for the latter.
In summary: keep the main forum for effects building, keep the overspill in the lounge, and ruthlessly move threads from one to the other as moderators think appropriate. My tuppence worth.
That's silly to me. If it's OT, it's OT. People can become aquaintances on the internet and can want to talk about things other than the hobby they share. As of now, I have the complete option to filter all of that out by clicking "building your own stompbox", so there's no problems whatsoever.
-Colin
I myself fell into that whole Macy's thread, and in light of all that, I do not think that making the lounge music-related is all that bad of a thing.
The last thing I would want to do is cause someone to be upset enough to leave (especially if they have been here longer than I).
On the other hand, I agree with Paul, and I (personally) have no problem with any type of discussion; but, unfortunately, you then run the risk of people getting bull-headed with one another, and a lot of folk do not take that well.
Myself included, as that is human nature. Whatever we believe is the "right" way, and we thumb our noses at the rest of the world if they don't see eye-to-eye. I think that almost anyone has been guilty of this attitude (not just here, I mean anywhere), but I try my best to not be like this (daily), and I hope I have not put that attitude across to any one of you.
I am grateful for this community I have stumbled upon, and would hate to see it crumble over a few comments that may not have translated well into type (whetehr they be mine or anyone else's).
That's my input, anyway.
Kind of ironic,
An off topic thread about the off topic forum :?
Regan
If it were only true that everyone could converse without getting riled up about certain OT threads and yet be friends in the other forum, that would be great. Unfortunately I do not believe this is the case. As I said, several people have left - everyone is valuable here, it's really bad when people leave because of an OT thread.
Sorry Aron,
I was meaning my post as a joke, just in case tension was building. Hope you didn't take offense.
Only thing I can really say about the off topic forum is, if somebody is verbally instigating something, the best thing everyone else can do is just ignore the thread before posting out of anger and encouraging it .
I know, I hardly every take my own advise :roll:
Regan
Quote from: aronAs I said, several people have left - everyone is valuable here, it's really bad when people leave because of an OT thread.
As far as I'm aware it's usually the ethics threads that send people packing and they tend to start in this forum, not the lounge.
Anyway, not my decision is it? :D
I tend to stay away from political and religious topics, but have been known to get into a few. I personally don't have a problem with them as long as it's understood that it's a discussion and not a slamming session. People here tend to be civil in those debates, and can often find more about their friends in those discussions. I find it nice to have that release with people that you are familiar with weather it be a good joke, about a new car that a member may have gotten, or the arrival of a new family member. I think that we are all intelligent enough to know when not to offend somebody, and we should remember that we are all friends and stomp boxes brought us all to the same place. Everybody has a curiosity of what someone thinks on a certain matter. That's part of what makes us human, and one of the reasons we all came here to begin with. I will say that no matter what the out come is I will accept and stand by Aron's decision.