Here's my NEW layout of this circuit.
Please have a look and let me know if you fellas think it's correct.
Thanks for your time....
MarkM
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/mmarkmm/LiquidSunshineNET.jpg)
My eye's are going "wonky" !
Erm , source connection on Q2 ? there's an empty hole ... what's "drive B" ?
All else seems fine :D
MM.
Well,
If I'm reading this correctly, there are two drive controls, A & B.
Schem says that a 100k pot goes to the source of Q2.....Man I hope I'm right!!
(http://subdecay.com/schemls.gif)
You are 100% right ! and I apologize ,,, totally missed it, thought it was a 10k with .22 to ground and
not a pot .... :icon_redface:
..... still sounds great though :D
MM.
Quote from: MartyMart on July 17, 2006, 09:34:52 PM
You are 100% right ! and I apologize ,,, totally missed it, thought it was a 10k with .22 to ground and
not a pot .... :icon_redface:
..... still sounds great though :D
MM.
Oh man, I was worried there.....
My first draw had it as a regular resistor and I sent that one to the recycle bin before anyone saw that error!
Hey, thanks for your help and guidance.
This is what makes our little space on the net so nice and "homey"!!
Here's the PNP if anyone feels like giving it a shot. ;D
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/mmarkmm/LiquidSunshinePNP-1.jpg)
I will try to build it tomorrow evening and verify that it works.
Thanks again Marty, I owe you!
I'm going back to the way I had it !
The pot just through my bias and gain WAY off !!
I had either huge motorboating or just a quiet little boost ,,, :icon_eek:
It's staight 10k and cap for me .... again !
All MPF102's sounded best and "brightest" too BTW
MM.
This looks like a real promising project, keep us in the loop.
Quote from: MartyMart on July 17, 2006, 10:23:50 PM
I'm going back to the way I had it !
The pot just through my bias and gain WAY off !!
I had either huge motorboating or just a quiet little boost ,,, :icon_eek:
It's staight 10k and cap for me .... again !
All MPF102's sounded best and "brightest" too BTW
MM.
Weird......the original Subdecay pedal had 3 pots.....
I'll see what happens when I put it together tomorrow night.
I wonder if it would be possible to run a lesser value pot in parallel with a lesser value resistor.
Maybe a 6.8k resistor with a 5k pot?
I'm sure you guys have seen this, but clips of the real one here:
http://www.pedalgeek.com/cgi-bin/new_shop.cgi?config=&uid=DCDoNAAA1153228693&command=link--sdls
Quote from: gulliver on July 18, 2006, 10:12:08 AM
I'm sure you guys have seen this, but clips of the real one here:
http://www.pedalgeek.com/cgi-bin/new_shop.cgi?config=&uid=DCDoNAAA1153228693&command=link--sdls
Yes!
I have seen + heard it.
It's quite a nice sounding stomper huh?
I'm still puzzled as to why Marty lost bias using the second drive control. Maybe matched FETs are a neccessity here?
Quote from: markm on July 18, 2006, 10:47:38 AM
I'm still puzzled as to why Marty lost bias using the second drive control. Maybe matched FETs are a neccessity here?
Possibly, and I also had to use a 220k gain pot !! ( out of 100k's ) :icon_redface:
Didn't bother to parallel it with another 220k r to get around 110k but ................
Got it tuned so there's no oscillation, with Q1/Q2 MPF102 and Q3 2N5457 and straight 10k/220n off Q2
I probably have a bit more gain now , like the tone very much :D
MM.
Any progress here boyz?
If you guys can come up with something from this, and can share it with the rest of us ... I think it would really add to the forum.
1st, this is a boutique pedal
2nd, it's creator handed over the schematic as fair game
3rd, the clips sound pretty good and it is a nice change from the Tubescreamer type pedals, which are growing a bit tiresome.
Thanks.
I have plans to try and fire this thing up this weekend.
For some reason, there is a bias issue that I can't quite figure out yet.
I'm gonna try some other FETs and see what happens.
I'm very happy with it as a "two knob" circuit .
The 10k/220n off Q2 is working fine for me "bias" wise and I have a good range
of tones very similar to the samples posted above .
I have very clean to mid-gain and a good solid and bright "amp" like sound.
MM.
Marty,
What'd you use for FETs??
Quote from: markm on July 21, 2006, 04:05:51 PM
Marty,
What'd you use for FETs??
Same as above post
MM
Quote from: MartyMart on July 21, 2006, 04:18:42 PM
Quote from: markm on July 21, 2006, 04:05:51 PM
Marty,
What'd you use for FETs??
Same as above post
MM
Oh yeah huh? :icon_redface:
..........sorry!
Welp, so far It's working but, not alot of dirt to it.
I'm going to try and compare the sound of mine to the clips on the net. I must point out to those interested in building this that this is NOT the infamous Liquid Sunshine but rather, an "earlier version" according to Brian's post. (unless of course, I am mistaken)
So, unless he chimes in here, at this point, don't get yer hopes up just yet.
Like I said, It seems this layout works but, I'm not overly impressed by it at all.
Dragonfly's Sparkle-Boost or the Peppermill seems a bit better.
I wonder what's different about the current Liquid Sunshine than this one ???
Hint :
Try a slightly larger "gain" pot , 220k ( odd value, but I have some 24mm ones ) or a 500k with 470k r across pins 3&1
Means a slight "re-bias" to avoid howling , but sounds good to me .
On mine , I changed the 10k into Q3 to a 47k.
MM.
Any new results?
i'm keeping an eye on this topic,
i will probably bild this one,
I have prototyped the schematics posted
with other FET (unknown PN, i bought as replacement for an Phase90 project)
tried it, sounds cool, maybe lack of gain (to my taste).
I wonder if J201 would work?
cb
Quote from: cbriere on July 31, 2006, 08:04:17 AM
Any new results?
i'm keeping an eye on this topic,
i will probably bild this one,
I have prototyped the schematics posted
with other FET (unknown PN, i bought as replacement for an Phase90 project)
tried it, sounds cool, maybe lack of gain (to my taste).
I wonder if J201 would work?
cb
Just my opinion of course but,
To me until a different schem appears this project is dead.
The layout you see here works and functions for the most part but, it is NOT the "real" Liquid Sunshine that is known and loved!
Like Brian M had stated, the schem he posted was for an earlier version and my uninformed guess would be, that said schem is lacking alot of refinements that the actual "real" Liquid Sunshine contains.
Therefore, the refinements and additions that the actual production unit contains are still a mystery to us and remain undisclosed which is really anyone's guess at this point as to what those additions actually are.
My layout does function but, it's NOT the Liquid Sunshine that all the soundclips on the net represent and I think there quite possibly are many changes to be found in the current production circuit.
'Til any more info is available on the current circuit, I'm not planning on messing with it anylonger.
Build the Folk Fuzz 3.5 instead, FANTASTIC sounding circuit.....you won't regret it :)
i understand, we don"t want to COPY the Subdecay pedal,
but,
this schematics is a good start for a concept to do overdrive
with classA circuitery. I will play with this prototype a bit to
see if any tweeky can ake it suit my taste. ;D
cb
Quote from: cbriere on July 31, 2006, 12:45:39 PM
i understand, we don"t want to COPY the Subdecay pedal,
but,
this schematics is a good start for a concept to do overdrive
with classA circuitery. I will play with this prototype a bit to
see if any tweeky can ake it suit my taste. ;D
cb
See my list of "tweaks" within this thread, mine is sounding great now :D
MM.
The real problem lies in that the two Drive pots do not inreact with each other.
The one on the bottom of the layout is utterly useless for the most part.
That would be a good place to start :)
I havent been able to hang out here much lately. The circuit of the liquid sunshine really has not changed much. This schematic is really poorly drawn, but other than Jfet changes this is what I was building up until late early 2006.
The first 30 units or so used MPF102's, but they were from a special batch I had sitting arround, and i have not seen MPF102's with the same specs since. I highly recomend not using MPF102's. 2N5457's can work, but you have to go through about 20 of them to find one that will work. Essentially the trim pots should bias the jfets at about 25k. anywhere from 20k to 30k should work, and have enough gain. I have been using 2n5458's in the liquid sunshine with good luck for quite a while. Some batches I get in, all of the fets work... Even still, I keep a liquid sunshine breadboarded, and check each fet by ear. Some of them I just dont like the way they sound, others dont have enough gain... so i end up using them as Q1 for the buffer.
The 100k resistor in series with the output pot was changed a few months ago to 10k, and the cap to ground is now 10nF.
The first pot that is unmarked should be B100k. If you want to substitute another value go smaller not larger, or the positive feedback will cause oscillation.
There are all kinds of things that can go wrong in this circuit if your not careful. Eliminating the positive feedback loop is the easiest way to get rid of it. Layout can cause problems as well.
Using Jfets with anymore gain than a typical 2n5458 will probably result in muddy tones if not splattery. I had some good luck with j201, and j113's after reducing the source resistors on q2 and q3 to 2k
Either way I'd higly recomend socketing Q2 and Q3.
hope that helps
B