Hey... zpyder wants to make a spyder. how cute.
R.G.'s Spyder multi power supply can be found at http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/Spyder/spyder.htm (http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/Spyder/spyder.htm)
Currently I use a 2A 9v laptop-style adapter that is daisy chained to my pedals. I might as well filter that stuff. So then I might as well isolate them. Fine...
My question is two-fold:
1) Could I just take the 2A 9v output of my adapter and plug multiple Rectifier/filter/regulator circuits (as in R.G.'s first method) into it in parallel???
2) Why does R.G. start talking about unwinding and re-winding a transformer at the end of this article?? I missed the direction there entirely.
thanks!
zpyder
QuoteCurrently I use a 2A 9v laptop-style adapter that is daisy chained to my pedals. I might as well filter that stuff.
Maybe. Do you get hum and noise? If you don't, then you don't need to filter.
Do you get ground loop hum? If not, then the Spyder won't help. The Spyder is a high end hum fixer.
If it's not broken, don't fix it.
Quote1) Could I just take the 2A 9v output of my adapter and plug multiple Rectifier/filter/regulator circuits (as in R.G.'s first method) into it in parallel???
Yes, you could. But that would sacrifice all of the hum immunity that is the reason for going to a Spyder. It gives you all the pain of building but none of the good stuff of hum immunity.
Quote2) Why does R.G. start talking about unwinding and re-winding a transformer at the end of this article?? I missed the direction there entirely.
Because the whole point of the Spyder is that the power supplies all work from transformer isolated outputs and share no ground connection. That's where the ground loop isolation comes from. There are two ways to do that - (1) brute force with one power transformer for each output and (2) integrated, one power transformer with many secondaries. The second part of the article tells you how to make the integrated power transformer. Since I wrote that, two things have happened. Mouser has a CHEAP 12V/60ma transformer ($2.39 as I remember) and Ted Webber has started having custom transformers made with many 9Vac outputs, suitable for making an integrated Spyder. Since it's no longer cheaper, and there is a safety concern, I don't recommend people to do their own unwind/rewind any more.
I bought one of the Weber transformers R.G. mentioned and made my own 8X9VDC + 1X9VAC isolated power supplies. It works great and now all I have to worry about is not having too many pints before show time.
B.
I get hum here, but not there. I have a slough of 8+ pedals or so hooked together and sometimes (seems to depend on where I am) it's crystal clear, and other times I get some noticable (Not
that nasty, but noticable...) buzzing... It sounds pretty 60-cycle. I wonder if that is more of a ground loop or filtering issue...?? Makes it impossible to get a clean recording...
I
think I see now what you were saying about the secondaries. I took that first diagram to represent 8 of the filter/regulator circuits running parallel off of a single transformer. I guess they are each running off their own secondary (!?) ...
Quote from: R.G. on August 08, 2006, 08:49:38 PM
Ted Webber has started having custom transformers made with many 9Vac outputs, suitable for making an integrated Spyder.
Quote from: BDuguay on August 08, 2006, 11:12:11 PM
now all I have to worry about is not having too many pints before show time.
Very interesting... Where can I get one (too many)?
thanks,
zpyder
bump
https://weberspeakerscom.secure.powweb.com/store/magnetic.htm (https://weberspeakerscom.secure.powweb.com/store/magnetic.htm)
Down at the very bottom.
Hey R.G.
I know your busy but don't you think it would be a good idea to update your Spyder design on your website with these latest findings of transformers?
Thanks for all the info you have supplied about everything. You are a HUGE asset to us DIYers!
BigT
Yep.
Done.
You know what?
I also decided to build myself a spyder based PS, so you won't be alone...
Having the link for Weber Speakers on this thread made things easier for me to decide... It looks like the perfect tranformer for that job.
Gilles
Hmmm... cool. On the Weber site- WPDLXFMR-1 (the last item) says it's got 8 out at 11v, 300mA and 1 out at 9v, 2A ..... So those 8 11v outs are intended for individual pedals? Why 11v????
zpyder
Quote from: zpyder on August 14, 2006, 02:28:34 PM
Hmmm... cool. On the Weber site- WPDLXFMR-1 (the last item) says it's got 8 out at 11v, 300mA and 1 out at 9v, 2A ..... So those 8 11v outs are intended for individual pedals? Why 11v????
zpyder
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/Power-supplies/powersup.htm
I bought a bunch of transformers a while ago for my power supply project, but this weber one looks pretty decent and takes up a lot less space. anyone ordered one? any ideas on shipping charges/weight? The site said it gave an estimation at time of order, but I didn't see it, and am not willing to take a risk ordering a $15 part when the shipping may be many times that, knowing US charges.
They emailed me today the total amount including shipping to Canada, and it ended up to $38.00 US. So it's $42.?? CAD for me.
Gilles
Is it suitable to put the Spyder power supply(s) in the same enclosure as the effects? And if so, I assume the effects can not share a common ground. That would basically mean all the Spyder grounds would essentially be shorted together.
Quote from: Seljer on August 14, 2006, 02:43:24 PM
Quote from: zpyder on August 14, 2006, 02:28:34 PM
Hmmm... cool. On the Weber site- WPDLXFMR-1 (the last item) says it's got 8 out at 11v, 300mA and 1 out at 9v, 2A ..... So those 8 11v outs are intended for individual pedals? Why 11v????
zpyder
http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/Power-supplies/powersup.htm
Thanks for the article RG and thanks for the link Seljer... man, suddenly power supplies make so much more sense.
Just curious, what effects use 9volt ac? I suppose there's some reason webber included it.
There are some popular digital based effects that need so much power that they use a 9Vac adapter at considerable current.
By the way, those effects' power supplies have the same plug end as most "Boss Standard" 9Vdc adapters. It is quick and sure death to your pedal to plug 9Vac into a 9Vdc pedal jack. Yes, even with reverse polarity protection the way most pedals do that. First it burns out the protection, then it kills the rest of the pedal.
Quote from: bdevlin on August 15, 2006, 02:00:45 AM
Is it suitable to put the Spyder power supply(s) in the same enclosure as the effects? And if so, I assume the effects can not share a common ground. That would basically mean all the Spyder grounds would essentially be shorted together.
Extrapolating on this - if within my enclosures I ground my signal and 9v to the same place (I've seen you refer to the 'sewer' and the 'pristine signal' before R.G.) and use a Spyder to power several pedals all connected, then essentially they all share the same 9v ground, correct? So using the Spyder is pretty pointless unless all of your pedals have seperate grounds for signal and 9v. Could you comment on this R.G.?
cheers
zpyder
I think it'd be okay to put the spyder in the same enclosure. A lot of pedals that plug into the wall do just this (think electroharmonix). Potentials reasons for not doing this would be electromagnetic interference from the transformers in your circuits. Right now I am having a b**** of a time with getting noise out of a pedal that has a transformer in the case. So, I recommend putting it in its own case if you can.
Now as far as common grounds, it's okay for your pedals to share a common ground. This is expected since the circuits are grounded to the case through the jacks and the cases are connected to one another through your guitar cables. This is fine. Ground loops arise when there is a SECOND common ground, namely at the power supply. So as long as you mainting separate grounds for the power sources, you can't form a loop (only a line).
John
Quote from: bryantabuteau on August 14, 2006, 06:01:10 PM
I bought a bunch of transformers a while ago for my power supply project, but this weber one looks pretty decent and takes up a lot less space. anyone ordered one? any ideas on shipping charges/weight? The site said it gave an estimation at time of order, but I didn't see it, and am not willing to take a risk ordering a $15 part when the shipping may be many times that, knowing US charges.
Re: RG's Spyder Clean, Isolated Power Supply
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 10:12:11 PM »
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I bought one of the Weber transformers R.G. mentioned and made my own 8X9VDC + 1X9VAC isolated power supplies. It works great and now all I have to worry about is not having too many pints before show time.
B.
I just received the transfomer I ordered from Weber Speakers. Shipping was not cheap, but it was very FAST.
So it won't be the last time I will order from them.
The transformer looks cool, all brown wires :o except the 110V primary and the 9 V ac output. But it will fit well in a box with 9 regulators and the associated parts.
Gilles
I did the same Spyder PS with the Weber tranny, works great.
As to the high current 9VAC winding on the Weber, it's also a good addition for things like starved plate tube preamps if you're into that sort of thing. If you decide to use it as 9VAC, terminate it in a different power connector type and use a custom made cable. Use a different color cable jacket and label the heck out of it. Less chance of plugging the wrong box into the wrong power jack.
If you really know what you're doing you could probably also take two of the 11VAC windings and chain them together into a single 22VAC, rectify/filter/regulate down to 18VDC for things like the PT80. I'd get a few other opinions on that before trying it though.
Chaining two 11V ac winding to make a 18V dc is a very good idea. It could even be made into a 22V center transformer. Thanks for mentioning it.
Let's see. It would still leave 7 x 11V ac windings available. No problem. I need a minimum of 5.
About the power connectors, I want to use the same Molex connectors as used for the PC power supplies, and use different pins for the 9V ac power.
Just to give an update on what I decided would be best for me for a spyder supply based on the Weber XFMR.
The XFMR has five 11vac windings + one 9vac winding on one side, and three more 11vac winding on the other side with the 110vac input.
So I'll use the first 5 windings for 5 separates 9V regulated outputs.
2 of the other windings will be used to make a 18 V regulated output, and the one left will be another 9V regulated output. But these last 2 outputs will be daisy chained when needed. But the first 5 outputs will not be daisy chained. I will keep them for critical effects.
So I am preparing a set of 5 electrictly separated regulator circuits on one stripboard. It should be a good start.
Gilles
Gilles,
I just received two of the Weber transformers.
Care to share your circuit board layout?????
Thanks
Chuck
No problem. As long as you don't mind a different kind of layout...
http://www.gtechblues.com/My_Layouts/Layout1.pdf (http://www.gtechblues.com/My_Layouts/Layout1.pdf)
I don't have a complete project file, but this should get you started.
Btw, I used a round type of bridge because they are cheaper than the 4 pins in-line types. But they fit well on stripboards.
For the capacitors values, I suppose you already know what to use.
I also suggest that you wire 4 regulator circuits on each stripboard instead of 5 as I did. 2 stripboards with 4 reg circuits each would be better.
I think I also made the board a bit bigger than in the layout to have more space for the screws.
Gilles
Just to complete the info, here is a pic of the box with a cleaner wiring, but still waiting for the jacks and the second regulator board.
(http://www.gtechblues.com/images/Reg_Box_In2.jpg)
That's in case you're looking for ideas to box it.
Gilles
Thanks Gilles,
You added a third cap. C2 in the first bank. I'm curious why you had to do that and what the value is?
I have limied space, so I was going to build an aluminum frame type mount. I'll post it when its been cut.
Chuck
It is just a 0.1uF I used as suggested in the 7809 specs to make sure there is no noise on the 9V supply.
Like in schematic for example
http://www.eidusa.com/Electronics_Kits_9_Voltage_Reg.htm
You can get away without it, but it's so small that you could add it somewhere I'm sure. I prefer to use it 'just in case..."
Gilles
Cool thanks
Just wondering if everyone is still satisfied with their Weber XFormer based Spyders...
I'm looking once again at my power supply situation. I'm getting some horrible hums that are driving me BATTY while trying to record
cheers,
zpyder
The only time I had hum with the spyder is when I forgot to connect the metal box of the effect to ground. I was using isolated jacks too. So it was humming real bad when I was touching the box.
Connecting the box to the circuit board ground fixed it.
Gilles
Hey Gilles, just wanted to thank you for your strip layout and pictures... sooo helpful! :)
I'm about to start my Spyder with the weber tranny, how did you go with the 18V o/p?
nzCdog
Just got the Weber transformer in the mail. I know how important it is to wiring this correctly so thought I'd ask before doing it wrong.
How do you wire all those brown wires? Is it just the first two, next two, and so on? I feel like this is a dumb question but I want to be sure.
Thanks