So, has anyone actually built one? I see a few forum members talked about doing it, but the search doesn't turn up any results. I'm very interested in building one of these suckers, but the schem at GEO doesn't really give enough to go by (missing values, lack of layout etc).
Anyone have any success stories, and or layouts or complete schems at least? I wouldn't mind taking a crack at a layout.
Man those things look and sounds scary. I want to frighten my children with it! hehe
If I had the time, a Phase II work-alike would be near the top of my wish list (along with a Synthi Hi-Fli). After seeing how involved the original's circuitry was (thanks, R.G.) I think that it's going to take someone with way more knowledge than I have to look at the schematic and figure out how to do it with modern components. My guess is that it would take Mr. Puretube about 14 off the shelf parts to do what took our ancestors four 12" X 12" phenolic circuit boards with 1200 bipolar transistors, 7 wax cylinders, 48 tropical fishes, and 29 electric eels to do in 1973. Don't forget the Bakelite knobs and the real simulated Naugahyde covering.
So who's gonna take on this beast?
...I can see the press release now. "Flip your 'wig with the new Behringer Synthophase trajectorial formant animator." Price for your country: $79.99 list, $12.50 street. Availability TBA
Roger
Ha! Yeah really!
Well I don't want anything more modern than the original. I want to get questionable looks when I use this thing on stage. I hope I will be able to find all the vales.
I started making PCB layouts for this beast but then other things took over.
One day...
I'm a pretty die-hard kind of guy, but I gave up on making PCB layouts for it. Not because it's too difficult, but just because of the sheer size of the project, plus the fact that maybe one in 20 people on the forum here could build and debug it.
It's big, it's complicated, there's lots of wiring to get wrong, lots of transistors to get put in backwards, and lots of solder joints to get cold.
And it is not the 'bees knees'. I played with one fixing it for a friend and was not overly impressed.
That's a shame... I suppose I should start looking for similar projects. I'm especially interested in the "synthesiser" parts.
There is also some offboard wiring that isn't represented in the schematics that RG posted. I need to figure out what box those drawings are in. Unfortunately, I can't promise finding them anytime soon. I will come across them some day, however...
QuoteI'm especially interested in the "synthesiser" parts.
There really aren't any of those. It's got some distortion and two filters that move around. I think that they decided that since the synthesizers of the day had moving filters, that anything with moving filters was a synthesizer.
QuoteThere is also some offboard wiring that isn't represented in the schematics that RG posted.
Yeah, there is a clot of that. I don't think I ever had a complete set of drawings.
I couldn't find the offboard stuff when I sent you the schematics...I'm sure they'll turn up...
Kewl. Let me know when they do!
Schematics from one:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/Ludwig%20Phase%20II/phase-II-bottom-schematic.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/Ludwig%20Phase%20II/phase-II-top-schematic.jpg
And the main board:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/Ludwig%20Phase%20II/phase-II-btm-full.jpg)
Cool! That's the first gut shot of one that I've seen!
now I'm motivated...I will search for the wiring diagram this weekend!
more motivation... (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110142723647&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX&refitem=7415987858&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget)
I've been watching them on ebay for years...they usually go for $1500-$2500, with occasional spikes in the price. This one is waaaaaaaaay overpriced.
hahah looks cool.
i'll build one if you finish it rg :)
cheers
ulysses
Wow, It could be a nice challenge to build one of those :). Hey, am I the only one who likes wiring? I love building too, but wiring is almost the end, that's why I like it. Hopefully I'm also very patient and check everything more than once(maybe that's why up to now all my builds ran at once).
Still I don't know exactly what it sounds like, gotta check some sound samples on the web.
EDIT: Haven't found any, any idea were I could get some sound samples of this?
What does this thing do? Can the modulation part be simulated by simpler circuits? Or, how about using the Spin Semi FV-1 for a simulation - at least of the modulation?
Sean Costello
It had been a long time since I looked at that.
I wonder if with with the board schemos and some eagle-eye-ing the gut shot if one could clean up where those last few wires go. There aren't many. I found the files I started with, and there aren't many I couldn't follow, but there are a few. For instance, there was just no reference to where some of the numbered wire connectors went.
From some of the files, there is a reference to "vowel selector". I think they tried to make the filter movement simulate human vocal tract resonances.
Frankly, if we knew where the off board wires went, it's pretty trivial to just place parts where they are on the board layout and just run traces from part to part. Placement and board sizing is much harder than running traces. The boards are pretty trivial.
hey RG
i'll take a look at it if you are interested. those pics posted by SirHC look fairly easy to trace.
let me know.
cheers
ulysses
If you'd like to, sure that would be great.
What would be most help is a semi-physical drawing. I have better versions of the schematic and parts placement pages that were listed. If you could take the parts placement drawing of the boards, and sketch out which wire goes to which jack/switch lug/other board that would be a huge help.
Drop me a pm with your email address.
hey rg
i sent you a PM.
looking forward to having a crack at it :)
cheers
ulysses
Quote from: QSQCaito on June 27, 2007, 01:25:17 PM
Wow, It could be a nice challenge to build one of those :). Hey, am I the only one who likes wiring? I love building too, but wiring is almost the end, that's why I like it. Hopefully I'm also very patient and check everything more than once(maybe that's why up to now all my builds ran at once).
Still I don't know exactly what it sounds like, gotta check some sound samples on the web.
EDIT: Haven't found any, any idea were I could get some sound samples of this?
Sonic Youth used it a lot on their album Washing Machine, the Diamond Seas has it. It is a fuzz and filter and tremolo all in one. Two filters that can sweep up or down, or opposite each other.
By the way Chris, Ulysses is going to try to nail down the wiring so it can be reduced to practice. Do you have or can you make a similarly revealing shot of the console board so he can trace the board-to-board wiring?
I can send him a bunch and I have some better pics of the two schematics.
back of top board:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/Ludwig%20Phase%20II/phase-II-top-pcb.jpg
How the switches look:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/Ludwig%20Phase%20II/phase-II-switches.jpg
Controls:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/Ludwig%20Phase%20II/phase-II-control-panel.jpg
Foot controls:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/Ludwig%20Phase%20II/phase-II-pedal-lit.jpg
What was wrong with this one:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/c-martin/fuzzes/Ludwig%20Phase%20II/the-shorting.jpg
(there is a rivet bit jammed in the switch in the center of the shot)
Hey, thanks. That may be enough to track the rest down.
As for what it sounds like, those of you who don't have Sonic Youth's Washing Machine, the effect that is on "The Diamond Sea" is kind of like a phasor with a much more vowelly sound, so instead of "woooosheeeeooouuuwooosh...." it's more of a "yuheeyuheeyuh" effect. I have been able to get approximations with plug-ins, most recently BU Guitar Rig II, which has a "Talk Filter" effect that can be controlled by a virtual LFO module.
If there was a pedal that did just the formant filter phasor effect, that would be awesome.
I can't say what the fuzz or other settings of the animation sound like. I'm really just going off of hearing the Beck and Sonic Youth songs which use it.
Roger
thanks for those extra pics sirhc :)
will let everyone know how i get on :)
cheers
ulysses
After some digging, I found the drawings of the offboard wiring that a generous person over at ampage made for me years ago. I don't have access to a scanner this weekend, but I will get it digitized and to you guys early next week. :icon_biggrin:
Ry
KEWL!!! Send them on!
2 Constant Q Filters;
left halve of each filter = variable capacitance,
right halve = variable inductance sim,
both variables synced per filter.
R.G.: check yer PMs :icon_wink:
I'll go have a look.
There's one on ebay... but this time without the huge starting price!
might be worth a punt.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-70-Ludwig-Phase-II-Synthesizer-No-Reserve-Vintage_W0QQitemZ270162968851QQihZ017QQcategoryZ41419QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Cool
This is the first time I see someone next to it; I though it was much much bigger :)
Ooh, this looks interesting.
Is anyone drawing up a schematic of one of the filters, please?
Bump :)
Those interwebz are really working fast these days,
from the bottom (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/ludwigphaseiibottomboar.jpg/)
to the top (http://img150.imageshack.us/i/ludwigphaseiitoppcb.jpg/)...
:icon_eek:
Quote from: puretube on June 12, 2009, 04:13:16 PM
Those interwebz are really working fast these days,
from the bottom (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/ludwigphaseiibottomboar.jpg/)
to the top (http://img150.imageshack.us/i/ludwigphaseiitoppcb.jpg/)...
Yep, have those. They're part of the stuff that went into the schematics that have been on GEO
since March of 2004. :icon_lol:
Quote from: ulysses on June 28, 2007, 08:38:44 PM
thanks for those extra pics sirhc :)
will let everyone know how i get on :)
cheers
ulysses
Any new findings?
Quote from: TELEFUNKON on September 05, 2007, 01:18:20 PM
2 Constant Q Filters;
left halve of each filter = variable capacitance,
right halve = variable inductance sim,
both variables synced per filter.
R.G.: check yer PMs :icon_wink:
Just like this fig.6 (http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat3688010.pdf) explains, so you guys in the other thread know what you`re doing! :icon_wink:
See this thread; http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=91498.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=91498.0) .
We`re working on it presently.
Cheers,
Dino