Is it possibel to implement a switch to go from a three Ge Tonebender MKII to a workable Fuzz Face on the GGG board ?
How could this be done ?
Quote from: Krinor on October 23, 2007, 12:22:34 PM
Is it possibel to implement a switch to go from a three Ge Tonebender MKII to a workable Fuzz Face on the GGG board ?
How could this be done ?
pretty easy...
go directly to a "on/on" switch from the effect input...one side of the switch goes to the regular effect in....the other side leads to an offboard 2.2uf electrolytic cap which then connects to the base of Q2 (theres already a extra hole drilled by Q2's base on the GGG board, IIRC.
you'll probably want to put a 1M pulldown resistor just BEFORE the on/on switch to prevent popping....
the switch just bypasses the TB MKII's initial "boost" section....
Its similar to this version that i made a few years ago, except it would use the 2.2u OR the .1 thats normally in the TB...
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/d/17283-1/FACE-BENDER.GIF)
Thanks Dragonfly.
I was affraid it would be more complicated.
Fun,fun.
Quote from: Krinor on October 23, 2007, 01:17:50 PM
Thanks Dragonfly.
I was affraid it would be more complicated.
Fun,fun.
no problem.
:)
Hm... Adding a switch on one side of the led indicator looks dull... If I add another on the other side; what could I use it for ? Any fun ideas ?
I'll go for a "hi/lo" switch. I guess tampering with C3 will prduce some kind of change in frequenzy respons ?
Wondering if you could use a pot instead to get feedback to unity gain on the first transistor. I have to do the "Silicon" gain-reducing mods to get less ridiculous gain on the TBII, plus an emitter resistor on Q1. The BYOB site (whatever it is called) has a DPDT bypass on the first stage, but the above circuit would be OK too.
Quote from: frankclarke on October 23, 2007, 06:35:59 PM
I have to do the "Silicon" gain-reducing mods to get less ridiculous gain on the TBII, plus an emitter resistor on Q1.
Shhhh...you're giving away all the secrets ! ;)
I didn't have enough room for more switches... I just went with that Face-Bender thingy. It sounds very good. I always thought the MK2 has way too much gain for most uses. It's great for solos, but for more relaxing stuff a Fuzz Face is better. The way my pedal turned out it now goes from just breaking up to a nice fat fuzz on the Fuzz Face side of the switch and then the Tonebender continues where the other one leaves off. This gives an incredible range. Very usefull. Thanks for helping me out. I feel like I have been given a whole new stompbox tonight.
Edit:
By the way; what does that 2.2 uF cap do ? I didn't have the exact value so I used a 1uF instead. Works fine.
Quote from: Krinor on October 23, 2007, 06:55:24 PM
I didn't have enough room for more switches... I just went with that Face-Bender thingy. It sounds very good. I always thought the MK2 has way too much gain for most uses. It's great for solos, but for more relaxing stuff a Fuzz Face is better. The way my pedal turned out it now goes from just breaking up to a nice fat fuzz on the Fuzz Face side of the switch and then the Tonebender continues where the other one leaves off. This gives an incredible range. Very usefull. Thanks for helping me out. I feel like I have been given a whole new stompbox tonight.
Edit:
By the way; what does that 2.2 uF cap do ? I didn't have the exact value so I used a 1uF instead. Works fine.
The 1uf is fine...a 2.2uf allows more bass through, and makes it a "tiny" bit fuzzier, but some people (me included) like a smaller cap like the 1uf.
Glad you like the facebender ...it was in my folder and for some reason no one built it...oh well...
also, if youre in the mood to go "all silicon, heres a good one....
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/d/17295-1/TONEBENDER+NPN+SILICON+DRAGONFLY+VERSION.GIF)
Shouldn't the switch on the face bender be DPDT, switching both in and out? I would think without it, there would be excess noice in the fuzz face position.
I used a SPDT. Works fine.
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 23, 2007, 07:37:42 PM
Glad you like the facebender ...it was in my folder and for some reason no one built it...oh well...
I can't see why. It's great. The Facebender is my new favourite pedal. I was a bit tired of the superfuzzy tonebender, and being able to switch to a fuzz face put a smile on MY face.
Quote from: Krinor on October 24, 2007, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 23, 2007, 07:37:42 PM
Glad you like the facebender ...it was in my folder and for some reason no one built it...oh well...
I can't see why. It's great. The Facebender is my new favourite pedal. I was a bit tired of the superfuzzy tonebender, and being able to switch to a fuzz face put a smile on MY face.
I built it using a footswitch for the fuzz face / tonebender selector...that way i could switch them as i was playing ...
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 24, 2007, 10:49:27 AM
Quote from: Krinor on October 24, 2007, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 23, 2007, 07:37:42 PM
Glad you like the facebender ...it was in my folder and for some reason no one built it...oh well...
I can't see why. It's great. The Facebender is my new favourite pedal. I was a bit tired of the superfuzzy tonebender, and being able to switch to a fuzz face put a smile on MY face.
I built it using a footswitch for the fuzz face / tonebender selector...that way i could switch them as i was playing ...
I think I need to build another in a larger enclosure. Would be sweet to have three stompswitches. The last one for a booster on the output maybe - for those SpaceFace moments - if you get my meaning... I wonder if it would be nice to have a bias pot on it as well ? Have you tried that ? How does it perform - does it go from barely fuzzy to a complete imbesile sputter ?
Quote from: Krinor on October 24, 2007, 11:44:52 AM
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 24, 2007, 10:49:27 AM
Quote from: Krinor on October 24, 2007, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 23, 2007, 07:37:42 PM
Glad you like the facebender ...it was in my folder and for some reason no one built it...oh well...
I can't see why. It's great. The Facebender is my new favourite pedal. I was a bit tired of the superfuzzy tonebender, and being able to switch to a fuzz face put a smile on MY face.
I built it using a footswitch for the fuzz face / tonebender selector...that way i could switch them as i was playing ...
I think I need to build another in a larger enclosure. Would be sweet to have three stompswitches. The last one for a booster on the output maybe - for those SpaceFace moments - if you get my meaning... I wonder if it would be nice to have a bias pot on it as well ? Have you tried that ? How does it perform - does it go from barely fuzzy to a complete imbesile sputter ?
bias pot...
yep...done that...it definitely gives some variation....i prefer it on Q2...use a 22k resistor and a 100k pot combo instead of the 47k resistor
for that matter, a "starve" pot (on the "ff section") works nicely too ...try a 20k linear....also, another interesting mod is to sub 500k pot(wired as a variable resistor) and 47k resistor for the 100k feedback resistor...
If we go on like this we'll end up with a Tone Burner. :icon_lol:
OK, I have a 100k/10k switch for the 100k resistor that goes to the attack pot, the 10k is for the spluttery lo-gain Zeppelin stuff. The other side of the switch bypasses my Q1 emitter 1k resistor when the 10k is in (So Q1 is working hard and the Fuzz face isn't). It's my "Topographic Oceans/Dazed and Confused" Switch.
Quote from: Krinor on October 24, 2007, 10:01:53 AM
Quote from: Dragonfly on October 23, 2007, 07:37:42 PM
Glad you like the facebender ...it was in my folder and for some reason no one built it...oh well...
I can't see why. It's great. The Facebender is my new favourite pedal. I was a bit tired of the superfuzzy tonebender, and being able to switch to a fuzz face put a smile on MY face.
I tried to build it maybe a year and a half ago and it was one of those few pedals I could never get to work. It seems like a great idea. I think what I would do now is tack the first transistor stage onto the Axis Face, which has become my favorite Si FF.
Thanks, though, for the great idea. I may have to try it again when I start building pedals again.
Quote from: frankclarke on October 24, 2007, 07:40:23 PM
OK, I have a 100k/10k switch for the 100k resistor that goes to the attack pot, the 10k is for the spluttery lo-gain Zeppelin stuff. The other side of the switch bypasses my Q1 emitter 1k resistor when the 10k is in (So Q1 is working hard and the Fuzz face isn't). It's my "Topographic Oceans/Dazed and Confused" Switch.
Dumb as I am I can't visualize that in my mind. Layout ? Are you useing a double pole switch ? Is that what you mean by the other side of the switch ?
I understand it as two things get simul-switched.
bypassing the 1k resistor to ground on Q1 emitter to bump gain up at that stage.
Bypassing the 100k feedback resistor with a 10k, reduces gain by increasing -feedback.
..and that'd make elegant sense I think, unless I'm reading it wrong, you'd need DpSt or DPDT to do it.
Here is what I meant (modified from from fuzzcentral for educational purposes):
(http://members.shaw.ca/fclarke/tbii.gif)
Hi Pete,
Yes, that's what I meant. DPDT. One mode is a smooth Fuzz Face with a mild Q1 boost in front, the other is a weak sputtery Fuzz Face getting hammered by Q1. They sound very different. You lift the Q1 emitter from ground, and put a 1k from emitter to ground to reduce Q1 gain. This is good if you think the TBII has too much gain, and this is one position of the switch.
This is if your TBII has ridiculous gain and you would prefer more of a Zeppelin vibe.
Holy Expletives Batman, Jeff shows you his pedals, TBIII:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p05vOgGNSo
Thanks for the schematic/layout. Very nice. I'll have to fit my Tonebender in a larger box now. :icon_cool:
Frank, that is very cool. Thanks for the ideas!
Build Your Own Clone DPDT bypass for Q1
http://www.bigtonemusic.com/TBmods.html
thanks Frank, I'll have to try this one out !
I just installed the http://www.bigtonemusic.com/TBmods.html tbmod to switch from tb2 to fuzzfaze! Its amazing, this is what actually makes me box up this pedal!!
But there is one issue still left for me: When switching from fuzz face to tonebender, the gain increase is too great. Im going to install another stomp switch to switch between the 2 options, but right now i still have to lower the gain after switching, or i am just too loud.
So how can i lower the gain a bit - only of the tonebender part. I dont want to lose any more gain overall, because that would make the fuzz face too soft. So it would probably have to be around the q1 stage of the circuit, since this is the one only being used by the tonebender?
and i already have the emitter resistor on q1 installed
What you could do is leave everything the way it is, but use a 3PDT switch to switch between TB and FF. Wire as described before, but on the extra row of lugs, you run the output of the circuit to the center, then run each outside lug to a 100kA Volume pot. Run the wiper of each pot to the main switch and run Lug to ground. This give you independent volume settings for each fuzz.
Here's a quick schem:
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/d/18503-1/tbii+frank+clarks+mod+w+vol+cont.PNG)
It's early and I just got up, so make sure this works before you drill holes or anything. I am concerned that it may pop when switched. You may want to run to the switch before the output cap, then put a cap on each line before the pot. I think this may help nullify the pop a bit, if it is there.
EDIT: I just realized that you didn't build Frank's pedal, so much of the mods above will not refer to your pedal. However, the stuff I put in there should still work with your pedal.
Would it be possible to control the gain of the tonebender part by adding a bias pot to q1?
The tonepad layout for the tonebender uses a 20k trimpot to set the q3 voltage around 4.5, could i do something similar to q1?
Or, maybe increase the value of the 1k resistor at emitter of q1? Ill try out some other values there.
I now have a 2.2k resistor at the emitter of Q1 and it seems to me like its gotten more usable!
Something weird i noticed...my q3 voltage is around 7.4 - maybe thats why my gain is a bit extreme? And Q2 voltage much lower than the original. Strange.
You can bypass the Q1 emitter resistor with a 5uF cap just like Q3 if you want an extra gain control. The biasing does affect the sound a lot, but sometimes a "wrong" bias setting sounds "right" :).
what value would i use for that gain control?
If you had a 2k pot you could replace the 2.2k resistor with that.
i have a 4k7 trimpot installed to control the gain of the tonebender stage.
Next Problem: Im trying to figure out a way to increase the gain of the fuzz circuit (increasing gain of Q2). It only runs at -0.3 V.
Done!
I can definately recommend this mod to get more flexibility in your tonebender mk2!
I now have 3 trimpots at Q1, Q2, and at Q3. The Q1 Only affects the Tonebender Circuit, because when switching to fuzz face, Q1 is not included. My voltages are way off from the recommended standards, but im pleased with the sound. (Q2 is 0.3V, Q3 is 2.7V)
The tonebender stage is not only fuzzier, but also louder than the fuzz face stage.
But i just discoverd a major flaw: I cant turn the volume up more than a few milimeters. If i turn the volume pot up all the way, my amp reaches maximum volume on its lowest setting!! what could be the issue here??? HELP!
Ok so now i had the idea to add a passive tonestack. I decided to go for a single knob tonestack, its similar to the big muff with slightly different values. I cant test it right now, because everyones asleep, but im hoping this will A) cut down the output volume a bit and B) give me some more finetuning options for the final sound.
sorry to jump into the conversation but is there any NPN negative ground version??? I guess i could flip the caps and battery but if there's a legit schematic already... :D