One of the biggest struggles I've had in painting shells is getting a clear coat I'm happy with. Pretty much every non-HT painted shell has all kinds of imperfections (trash, as car painters call it) causing bumps and blemishes in the clear coat -- even the new version of the Fuzz Factory I just bought is covered in crapped-out clear coat.
So, I've spent the last several months coming up with a way to get a decent clear coat without breaking the bank, and I've finalized my process -- so I thought I'd share. First off, take a look at this close-up. Note the reflection of the foot switch as well as the reflection of the fabric backdrop along the sides of the pedal.
(http://www.railheadeffects.com/graphics/various/polish.jpg)
To get this highly polished and smooth look (no blemishes), I do the following:
1. Paint the shell the way i want it, sanding as usual between paint coats, etc., etc. This provides as smooth a surface as possible for the clear.
2. I've started using polycrylic, applied with a foam brush, and I put on a cover layer -- not too thick -- and bake it at 150° for 30 minutes.
3. I let the shell cool and cure for at least 12 hours, then I sand and smooth with 2000 grit paper, making sure to rinse off all the particles afterward.
4. I repeat steps 2 and 3 four to eight times, until I'm able to get a totally flat surface all across the shell.
5. I then use high grade car buff compound to smooth out the final sanding I did, and that leaves me with an almost crystal clear, mirror-like finish.
6. The final step is something I haven't tried until recently, even though I always have a bottle in my garage: NuFinish car polish (http://www.nufinish.com/products_polish.html). An application of this brings the clear into a crazy high-gloss, and it just looks awesome.
Anyway, I just thought I'd share now that I have something that really works well for me.
I just finished my first build and am ready to paint and finish my enclosure. How critical is it that I bake my enclosure after a color or clear coat? Does this provide some sort of significant benefit for the finish or does it just speed up the process. I've read in several places that builders will bake their pedals after painting them. I don't have a toaster oven and was just planning on letting my pedal air dry for several days. Thx.
It speeds things up, as well as works to smooth out the finish. You can get a cheap toaster over for $18 at Wal-mart -- just make sure you get something that allows you to control temperature by degrees and not just lo-med-hi.
Okay don't take this the wrong way but...isn't the pedal going to get banged up anyway with use. I always looked at clearcoat as nothing more than eye candy and protection for the underlying paint.
Well, I've been playing for over 20 years, and good portion of that time was spent with pedals and floor processors, gigging all over the State in all manner of venues, and no, none of my gear ever got/gets "banged-up."
I wouldn't buy a car with a screwed-up clear coat, and I wouldn't expect someone to buy a pedal from me with a screwed-up clear coat, either.
To each his own.
I've had pretty good luck with a 2 part epoxy clear that's uber thick and flows to an absolutely flat, glass-like finish. You do have to keep it covered for several hours, however, because the clear stays open for so long and it'll grab anything that's floating around over period of time.
Traditional 2-part automotive clear would work well, also, because it too, would flow and stay open long enough to lay down completely smooth when poured out. Spendy stuff, though.
That said, I have to agree with modsquad. At the end of the day, regardless of how much money or time you spend in getting the "perfect" finish, it's one bump again from a chip. Even powdercoating, which is, by far, the most impact resistant, hard-surface finish that I'm aware of, will chip. I always try to achieve "perfection" with my finishes, and I've been known to strip and re-finish, if something goofy happens along the way. I don't, however, spend any time buffing dirt out of the clear. It's part of my signature, and besides, unless you've got your face right up to the pedal, you don't see it anyway! ;-)
"none of my gear ever got/gets "banged-up."
That's pretty stunning. I don't think I've ever run across a single person, ever, who can claim that not a single piece of their gear has ever sustained any nicks, abrasions, or scratches while in the midst of heavy gigging, let alone claim that over a period of 2 decades!
Didn't say that I never get nicks -- I said my gear doesn't get banged-up. We obviously have different ideas as to what banged-up means.
Regardless, rather than argue about the merits of wanting a decent clear coat and the definition of banged-up, maybe we should just let the topic stand as was intended?
looks nice, but I would hate to step on it!
I don't think I have any gear that ISN'T banged up in one way or another. But I do try to keep my new pedals free from scratches prior to handing over the keys. No one wants to buy something that is new but looks used.
Although my brother thinks the uglier the better.
"Didn't say that I never get nicks -- I said my gear doesn't get banged-up. We obviously have different ideas as to what banged-up means."
In my mind, "banged up," means nicks/scratches/abrasions that come from normal, day-to-day rigors of the road. I don't consider it to mean being dragged behind the bus from gig to gig.
"Regardless, rather than argue about the merits of wanting a decent clear coat and the definition of banged-up, maybe we should just let the topic stand as was intended?"
I think you were the one that got off topic. You offered some great tips, and it seems to be working well for you. It just happens that two of us find it a bit much, considering how reality tends to fall upon these beloved pedal creatures of ours.
I can definitely see your point, particularly for retail sales, but personally, if I were mass producing and selling pedals, I'd be powder coating, not wet sanding one-part clear. For my own personal consumption and even for a handful of friends that buy stuff from me on occassion, I just don't care whether everything is spot perfect, as long as it works when I want it to.
No offense intended here....just expressing an opinion.
I spent 3 weeks this summer spraying 5 cans of nitrocellulose lacquer on a guitar body, with sanding between coats. My feeling is that it's going to get dinged and scratched and beat up over the next 30 years, but that's just good, honest wear and tear. It came out of my workshop as near perfect as I could get it, and each nick that it acquires as time goes on is "experience".
That being said, I can comment on getting a mirror finish. It's easier without wood grain to fill. I'd start by laying down 3 or 4 coats without any sanding, because the worst thing that can happen is a touchdown into the underlying paint when sanding. Secondly, I'd do only a little bit of sanding with a 800 grit paper after the first few coats, then move to pumice as soon as possible.
The problem with sandpaper is that it tends to trap debris under the paper and the paper itself is relatively hard. The result is that you will get swirls that are deeper than grit you are using will polish; which means that they are there forever unless you are going to spray another coat. The pumice is used with a wadded up rag, so the actual pressure and heat build-up are less. I haven't tried this on an enclosure yet, but my guess is that you'll get a quicker, better result with pumice.
I've heard that the 3M automotive polish is good, but my bet is that Rottenstone is better. Like pumice, it's a powder, but you rub it in with water with bare fingers. It's scary how smooth a finish you can get with it.
Anyways, the 1200-4000 grit sandpaper is no easier or cheaper to get than a lifetime supply of pumice and rottenstone. I'd bet you can get a huge jug each of 2F and 4F pumice, and a similiar size pot of rottenstone for less than $40.00. Pumice and rottenstone are old-fashion french polishing supplies, and you can get them from fine woodworking and luthier supply stores.
And one other thing...
Once you've put a decal on the box, then you can't bake it anymore. No matter how much clearcoat you put on top of the decal.
Nitrocellulose is a particularly difficult finish to work with, because it's so easy to damage, either with too much heat from aggressive buffing, excessive buffing, minor scrapes and dings, or even fairly mild solvents. It's still THE most gorgeous guitar finish for natural wood grain guitars, by far, but it's without question the least durable.
Luckily, we don't have to rely upon that type of material to finish pedals with! I sometimes wish I were still in the automotive refinish products business, because I had cheap access to any color I could dream up, and easy access to some very nice down-draft bake booths that would've been truly awesome to apply some wicked, multi-staged colors and insanely durable clearcoats in!
railhead, that looks great. And it might be something that I can do, since it doesn't require spraying.
Does it smell nasty when you bake the enclosure? Is this something you'd want to do outside?
Quote from: StickMan on November 21, 2007, 02:16:11 PM
And one other thing...
Once you've put a decal on the box, then you can't bake it anymore. No matter how much clearcoat you put on top of the decal.
I've never had any issues with waterslides and polycrylic.
Quote from: moro on November 21, 2007, 02:42:40 PM
railhead, that looks great. And it might be something that I can do, since it doesn't require spraying.
Does it smell nasty when you bake the enclosure? Is this something you'd want to do outside?
Yes, you should bake outside, and in something you'll never use for food. :)
Quote from: m-theory on November 21, 2007, 02:23:06 PM
Nitrocellulose is a particularly difficult finish to work with, because it's so easy to damage, either with too much heat from aggressive buffing, excessive buffing, minor scrapes and dings, or even fairly mild solvents. It's still THE most gorgeous guitar finish for natural wood grain guitars, by far, but it's without question the least durable.
Luckily, we don't have to rely upon that type of material to finish pedals with! I sometimes wish I were still in the automotive refinish products business, because I had cheap access to any color I could dream up, and easy access to some very nice down-draft bake booths that would've been truly awesome to apply some wicked, multi-staged colors and insanely durable clearcoats in!
I wasn't suggesting that anyone use nitro to finish anything other than a guitar. That being said, my experience getting a gloss finish with it may be somewhat different than what you'd get with a poly finish on an enclosure.
When I started playing with decals, I did a test and baked one that had a couple of coats of clearcoat over the decal. It still melted and shriveled.
If I bake too hot or too long, waterslides will crap out, but 30 minutes at 150° keeps them fine on the 15 or so shells I've used them on.
To each his own...I was just implying that for a pedal that's going to get stomped on banged around and nicked I would hate to have the awesome finish that you have perfected because I wouldn't want to use the pedal.
Having a custom car finish with 4 coats of clear, I can tell you that the key to that type of finish is keeping crap out of the clear when applying, lightly buffing/sanding to get it uniform and reapplying again to fill in imperfections. Too much patience for me on stompboxes but go for it if you have the patience.
I have a question for railhead with regard to the pedal photo that he posted...
What's up with the color coat on that pedal? I think I see a lot of wrinkling/lifting going on there, or are my eyes playing tricks?
Quote from: m-theory on November 23, 2007, 03:22:06 PM
I have a question for railhead with regard to the pedal photo that he posted...
What's up with the color coat on that pedal? I think I see a lot of wrinkling/lifting going on there, or are my eyes playing tricks?
Here's the info (from the pictures thread): http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=36392.msg495595#msg495595
AHA! Great shot of the pedal. That clarifies everything. I was curious why a few were getting hung up on gigging wear and tear but I think you have the best of both worlds. Pre-beat-up and show-car finish at the same time. Too cool. It's made me realize that my pedal finishes are downright boring....
In any event, thanks for the tip, and nice job!
That's a very unique look, and a very creative way to go about it! I'd have never thought of using flame for that effect!
Nice look.
I've gotten away from high-gloss stuff due to stage light glare.
Quote from: railhead on November 21, 2007, 11:57:34 AM
One of the biggest struggles I've had in painting shells is getting a clear coat I'm happy with. Pretty much every non-HT painted shell has all kinds of imperfections (trash, as car painters call it) causing bumps and blemishes in the clear coat -- even the new version of the Fuzz Factory I just bought is covered in crapped-out clear coat.
So, I've spent the last several months coming up with a way to get a decent clear coat without breaking the bank, and I've finalized my process -- so I thought I'd share. First off, take a look at this close-up. Note the reflection of the foot switch as well as the reflection of the fabric backdrop along the sides of the pedal.
(http://www.railheadeffects.com/graphics/various/polish.jpg)
To get this highly polished and smooth look (no blemishes), I do the following:
1. Paint the shell the way i want it, sanding as usual between paint coats, etc., etc. This provides as smooth a surface as possible for the clear.
2. I've started using polycrylic, applied with a foam brush, and I put on a cover layer -- not too thick -- and bake it at 150° for 30 minutes.
3. I let the shell cool and cure for at least 12 hours, then I sand and smooth with 2000 grit paper, making sure to rinse off all the particles afterward.
4. I repeat steps 2 and 3 four to eight times, until I'm able to get a totally flat surface all across the shell.
5. I then use high grade car buff compound to smooth out the final sanding I did, and that leaves me with an almost crystal clear, mirror-like finish.
6. The final step is something I haven't tried until recently, even though I always have a bottle in my garage: NuFinish car polish (http://www.nufinish.com/products_polish.html). An application of this brings the clear into a crazy high-gloss, and it just looks awesome.
Anyway, I just thought I'd share now that I have something that really works well for me.
WOW, that's one major hassle when there's a really easy way to do it.
Go to somewhere like the Harbor Freight tool store.
Buy an air driven touch up sprayer - much bigger than an airbrush, a little smaller than a traditional industrial sprayer.
Don't forget the water and oil filter to put on the compressor's output nozzle.
Fill the sprayer with water, spray it and adjust until you have a nice cloudy spray pattern.
Empty it, dry out the paint cup, spray a good amount of air through the gun with the cup off to get out the moisture.
Fill it with your clear coat. Hold your sprayer about 2-4 feet away, spray it with a coat that is so thin you can hardly tell it's on there and most of it seems to drift off into the air - wipe off the nozzle.
Let it dry for 10 minutes.
Repeat about 20-30 times, lol.
You don't have to hit it with nearly that many coats but generally about 10-15 - basically 1 coat every 10 minutes.
You avoid buffing and you avoid getting trash in the coats. I've achieve absolutely flawless paint jobs this way with both my industrial grade sprayers and even canned spray paint.
Avoiding the trash has to do with patience.
Sometimes I want things perfect, usually I just want to get the job done with quality results and rather thick coats but don't burden myself with perfection. I'm not selling it, it's still going to look exceptional and one of a kind and most of all, you know all too well the pedal or guitar is going to get scuffed, dinged, scraped and chipped. When this is often the case, I do a heavy coat up close and also because I don't have a proper spray room where I can spray an onion skin thin coat from 2-4 feet away then wait 10 minutes to come back and do one after another.
Also remember, when you watch the guys on shows like pimp my ride or trick my truck, notice they only do a single coat of paint. Sure those paint jobs look amazing but any scratch they get takes you right through to the metal. In truth they're low quality rush jobs that simply look incredibly expensive but listen to Jesse James talk about doing a paint job, he'll hit something with 30 coats and do it exactly the way I'm saying. Extremely thin coats slowly built up between drying cycles.
Less is more.
What you're saying is true, but I can do the above on my patio without worrying about overspray, etc.
I just use the Duplicolor clear coat for automotive wheels that you can get from Pep Boys. Just a few light mist coats to cover waterslide decals, then about 2-3 wet coats and let it dry overnight. Dry enough to handle the next morning and it's pretty rugged for lacquer. I don't even buff them out anymore (3200-12000 grit polishing pads). Just make sure the room is ventilated and away from ignition sources - pretty stout fumes. ;D
Not the best picture to show off the finish, but it does a good job IMO. :)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w27/plinkytx/IMG_1279.jpg)
Quote from: railhead on November 24, 2007, 09:00:53 PM
What you're saying is true, but I can do the above on my patio without worrying about overspray, etc.
Oh come on, that's what lawns and lawn mowers are for! :icon_biggrin: