I've been meaning to do a how-to for a long time, and also to post it on my website, but I figured it would be nice to have an open-source version here. So without further ado:
The DIY guide to making your stompboxes more environmentally friendly
Some preliminary things:
1. Mindset
This is the main ingredient in designing and building stompboxes that are better for the environment. Put earth-friendliness right up there with parts costs and sound quality, and you'll be surprised at the solutions you can come up with. Being on the lunatic leading edge of the "green movement," I practice not three, but 5 "R's" of earth-friendly habits:
Refuse (to buy things you don't need, or that are disposable by design)
Reduce (your consumption)
Reuse (if it still works)
Repair (if it can be repaired)
Recycle (as a last resort)
Do these in order for best results.
2. What can and can't be done
This varies from person to person depending on the tools and materials available. For example I can't make my own transistors very easily, but I can scrounge transistors from dead or unwanted electronics equipment. Some people will have access to wood or metalworking equipment, and can do lots of fabrication. Others will have access to salvage yards with tons of potential materials for enclosures, knobs, etc.
3. Use your community
Reach out to your community and you'll be surprised at the help that is available. Even if the guy at the local lumberyard has never heard of stompboxes, he may still want to help you find scrap wood for small enclosures, especially if you explain that you're trying to help recycle materials and do your part for the environment.
Getting down to the nitty-gritty of it:
Start with what you know you can do. Some simple examples:
-battery snaps made from dead batteries
-wire salvaged from old computers, radios, cars, etc.
-Wall wart adaptors for cheap (thrift stores) or free (when a friend replaces their answering machine or similar device)
-old, unloved pedals can be donors for enclosure, jacks, knobs, and electronic components
Move up to more advanced techniques as your experience, tools, and available materials allow.
-cut up old wine corks for non-slip pedal feet
-get acquainted with the local salvage yard, and buy a pair of tin snips 8)
-cut fallen branches down to size and drill partway through to make your own knobs
-become an expert in dismantling old equipment and organize the liberated components instead of putting them all in one container (meaning, don't just have a "junk parts" box, split it up so you have one box for old telephone speakers, one box for weird looking diodes, one for small transformers, etc etc)
If you can't build, and must buy, shop smart.
-Order in bulk whenever you can (fewer trips saves fuel, and it's cheaper)
-Get non-toxic alternatives. Yes, they do exist! Not everything can be done non-toxic, but a whole lot can. Paint, primer, cleansers, grease removers, glues, etc.
Do the research.
-aluminum is already recycled (that's right, your "new" Hammond 1590B is not really "new." But that's a good thing!)
-if you can find part X locally, rather than from somewhere far away, opt for the local version. Save fuel and help the local economy.
-talk to people in your area. They may hook you up with something you need, or think of something you didn't.
Much more to come (links, etc). Please add!
Some threads from here that could be construed as "environmentally better-than-average" approaches:
Battery snaps: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=66278.0 (plus non-toxic glue that I've found to work)
Junkyards/Scrapyards: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=15834.0
Longer lasting etchant: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=65039.0
Some very good points!
what I've been looking for are a good alternative to PCBs and those epoxy fiber perfboards.
Terminal strips and such are ok but are a bit difficult to make compact designs with.
haven't even though about making knobs of wood :P just have to find some earth friendly paint as well :)
Quote from: John Blund on March 23, 2008, 06:48:08 PM
Some very good points!
What I've been looking for are a good alternative to PCBs and those epoxy fiber perfboards.
Terminal strips and such are ok but are a bit difficult to make compact designs with.
Is it true that early Orange amps were made on
wood boards ? I would really like to see a picture of that ! How the components were mounted (in holes?) ?
Maybe I am naive, but I've buyed thin cork boards to mount the components of a simple fuzz I am planning to build in a point to point style. I am trying to pin down the components in place for soldering each other.
I thing I will do the VMF like this. If you have a better idea tell me !
Quote from: John Blund on March 23, 2008, 06:48:08 PM
just have to find some earth friendly paint as well :)
Try AFM Safecoat. They have metal primers, and all sorts of enamels, clearcoats, etc.
They have some colors but mostly clear or white... but that doesn't mean you have to add a toxic dye. Plant dyes are super safe and some are very bright. I like beets for red, and red cabbage can do purple, green, and many shades of pink depending on the acidity of the solution you're making. It's lots of fun.
You can also make a lot of things out of regular old milk. Like plastic, glue, and paint. To make plastic from milk all you need is heat and vinegar, and a cheesecloth. It's wild.
Quote from: frank_p on March 23, 2008, 07:50:47 PM
Maybe I am naive, but I've buyed thin cork boards to mount the components of a simple fuzz I am planning to build in a point to point style. I am trying to pin down the components in place for soldering each other.
I thing I will do the VMF like this. If you have a better idea tell me !
That's a cool idea, Frank. Can't get much more natural than cork. Plus the cork industry ensures the survival of the cork forests and all the associated wildlife, which is an extra bonus. I once mounted the components for a pedal on a piece of cardboard cracker box. I poked the leads through, twisted, and soldered. It was a little tricky though.
I always save my etchant. Also when ever I have liitle bits of wire left over I always keep them in a little tin. I find uses for them (switch to LED, jumpering etc..)
I like the tree branch knob idea.
Hi
QuoteMaybe I am naive, but I've buyed thin cork boards to mount the components of a simple fuzz
Sounds similar to the cardboard (esp corrugated) that others say does a fine job for simple circuits. I'm working on a blinking LED circuit on a piece of beer carton right now. Keep it simple, I say.
The casein (milk-derived plastic) idea is, IMO, utterly BRILLIANT.
cheers
This whole earth friendly idea would be good idea for the one of Tonegod's monthly contests. Who can make the most earth friendly stompbox....?
You could also reuse the PCB's that come in those old electronics as circuit boards for your new pedals, just use the traces you need, and you may need to us more jumpers than usual, or stretch some transistor leads further to fit them to the board. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm planning on doing this in the future.
Nick
Edit: I also think it would be awesome to have a "Greenest pedal" contest as well.
Im so happy this thread is going.
Ive always planned on the knob idea just because it was cheap and i thought it would be cool, now i realize how earth friendly it is and im hoping everyone will do it.
Recycling parts is fun too. Its like christmas when you crack open an old device you can never tell exactly what components your gonna stumble upon. It always puts a smile on my face when im thinking "hello there tropical fish caps" or "i cant wait to test this germ out". since "mojo" parts come from the same era as some of the electronics that are being discarded today.
Well, this is an excellent thread.
I've been tripping over an old Hi-Fi Cassette deck for a while now.
It's mid to late 70s, and is no longer used - although still working.
Assuming no local charity / community groups want it (who still uses tapes anyway?) - I can feel a 'salvage' coming on.
...and the size of the case will make several other folded aluminium cases from the shiny sheet of goodness...
Might just have some 'mojo' parts in there too - *plus* how cool would it be to have a booster / overdrive with a VU meter to indicate how much boost you were adding?
I buy $5 surplus aluminum modem boxes to use for amp chassis. (I'm on my 4th one right now.) They still have the pcb's in them stuffed with parts. The first one had a wet-cell battery in it but after that they have been coming with these cute little 20v transformers. Those could be used back-to-back for a tube pedal or something. I've gotten a handful of silver micas off the boards too. You never know what you'll find. In all honesty I don't scrounge parts much anymore. It's too time-intensive for me to spend 5 minutes desoldering a PCB to end up with a cap with 1/8" leads. :icon_lol: I still have an old VCR and a mid-70's radio shack receiver that I haven't touched. One of these days...
QuoteI buy $5 surplus aluminum modem boxes to use for amp chassis. (I'm on my 4th one right now.)
Hey, that's pretty cool. Do you get them online or from a local surplus store? can you fit the guts to a decent sized tube amp in them?
I can't believe I'm unable to find a screwdriver anywhere in my house to get this old radio/tape deck apart. I think im going to have to take a hatchet to it. :icon_twisted:
I get the boxes at a local place. I've built three 3-tube amps so far. The one I'm working on now is 4-tube. Four tubes and a pair of decent sized transformers is about the limit for these chassis. There is also some funkiness due to the fact that the lid edge is actually 1/2" from the edge of the box. Although it is folded and closed, there is a 1/2" space along the back edge that can make installing speaker jacks, etc "interesting". I've learned to work with them though and can't beat the price. Here's a couple amps I've built with them in my gallery:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/DougH/ (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/DougH/)
Oh hey yeah! I saw that Vox head when you originally posted about it. Very nice looking. I really like how you use the grating so you can see the tubes glowing, I was thinking of doing the same thing when I finally get around to building an amp myself.
is that milk plastic good enough for knobs for example??
i saw some videos on youtube but you can´t see how hard it gets or how resistant..
that casin plastic has my mind on a freaking brainstorm!!
Quote from: dschwartz on March 26, 2008, 05:26:17 PM
is that milk plastic good enough for knobs for example??
i saw some videos on youtube but you can´t see how hard it gets or how resistant..
that casin plastic has my mind on a freaking brainstorm!!
I've been wondering about this too. I'm guessing it wouldn't be the most durable thing in the world, but who knows. If you make some (please do!), do a scratch test (scratch with materials of varying hardness) to get a general idea of how tough it is. I'm putting off this experiment until I have enough time to get the vinegar smell out of the house before the wife comes home!
Also interesting is that plastics used to be made of bone, urea, and other weird "nature" stuff. Bakelite (I think that's the name) was used for circuit boards, and it was made with urea and male cats just loved to pee on it. This probably caused a lot of busted gadgets and some very startled cats (ZAP!).
I am just speculating, but I think petroleum-based plastics are a fairly recent development (last 50 years or so) at least in terms of commercial use.
I just want to note that there are a number of sites out there that have good "green" DIY pedalmaking stuff already. diyguitarist.com, muzique.com and geofex.com come to mind immediately. The world is a better place because of the articles on steel stud enclosures, thrift store pedalboards, and of course sewing machine pedal A/B switchers.
:)
Quote from: earthtonesaudio on March 26, 2008, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: dschwartz on March 26, 2008, 05:26:17 PM
is that milk plastic good enough for knobs for example??
i saw some videos on youtube but you can´t see how hard it gets or how resistant..
that casin plastic has my mind on a freaking brainstorm!!
I've been wondering about this too. I'm guessing it wouldn't be the most durable thing in the world, but who knows. If you make some (please do!), do a scratch test (scratch with materials of varying hardness) to get a general idea of how tough it is. I'm putting off this experiment until I have enough time to get the vinegar smell out of the house before the wife comes home!
Also interesting is that plastics used to be made of bone, urea, and other weird "nature" stuff. Bakelite (I think that's the name) was used for circuit boards, and it was made with urea and male cats just loved to pee on it. This probably caused a lot of busted gadgets and some very startled cats (ZAP!).
I am just speculating, but I think petroleum-based plastics are a fairly recent development (last 50 years or so) at least in terms of commercial use.
The first "man-made" polymer or plastic (Plastics means that it can be formed, polymers is the nature of the stuff) have an "ecologic" and economic debut.
It was around 1860 that a company (Phelan and Collander) would offer a 10 000$ prize to the person who could create a good chemical substitute for natural ivory for their pool balls. John Wesley Hyatt found the solution by inventing the artificial cellulose,
it found many applications after that. Cellulose was pattented under "celluloid".
« Bakelite » (commercial name) was invented in 1907 and was the first completely synthetic plastic on the market (inventor : Leo Hendrik Baekeland). The most common name for this plastic is thermosetting phenol formaldehyde resin.
The first "plastic" circuit boards were made of this and is still widely used. Boards are made by mixing the matrix (or filler) (for support wood particles,paper, fabric, etc) with phenol and formaldehyde (two toxic materials). Then all that stuff is putted in a press and its heated. A chemical reaction occurs between the two materials and sticks to the matrix. The composite material is hard, can't melt and have very good heat resistance characteristics. That is why it is used for circuit boards. There are two classes of plastics THERMOSTTING or THERMOPLASTICS.
Thermosesetted plastics are very hard (if not impossible) to recycle because the forming process involves chemical reactions that can't be reversed (everything is crosslinked in there). Think of epoxy, rubber, melamine. Polyimides is also widely used in the circuit board industry and is a thermoset (can't be recycled)
So making green boards that could meet environmental concerns is not so evident. It should be biodegradable and seal out moisture at the same time. It should not melt if overheated. It should not be made in a composite way because they are hard to recycle.
So plastics may not be the ideal answers to a green circuit board.
If you want to use greener plastics on your stompboxes, they should be made with thermoplastics. Those should not be mixed with fillers as to make them a composite material (Think of : fiber board + parafins) because they are reluctant to recycling.
Thermoplastics are formed into shape by heat and can be regrinded to be recycled. But they hate your solering iron. These are (some of them) :
Polyethylene PE (you can scratch it with your nail) Most general cheap purpose. But the greenest in my book)
Polypropylene PP (new cheap strat knobs) (you can't scratch it with your nail but still soft) (Container covers that have a molded in hinge)
Polyamide (Nylon) Guitar picks. Great mechanical properties, can be dyed. Pots components.
Polyacrylates (cheap gibson type knobs) : fragile(cracks), transparent panels.
Acrylonitryle butadiene styrene ABS (old strat knobs) : Copolymer formed or 3 plastics. Great mechanical properties, sewer pipes, solid knobs. The fumes of this plastic is TOXIC at the manufacturer plant.
Polyvinyl chloride PVC (old strat pickguards) : (the monomer from witch it is made is toxic) (patented in 1914 !!!) A lot of ecologic pressure on this one because of leaching additives that is put in there to have better mechanical and processing qualities.
Polyacetal (Greater guitar picks than nylon)
Cellulose acetate : (indestructible Gibson transparent knobs, also those screwdrivers handles you can hit with you hammer and gift ribbons that are used so the gift can't be opened)
Polycarbonate : safety glasses, impact resistant.
Polystyrene isolation foam, goodies that cracks (plastic forks...)
And many more...
If you are concerned about the lifecycle of materials and recycling, use those thermoplastics and avoid thermosetting plastics.
Conventionnal PCB is NOT an option in « green » pedals (total composite and thermosetting) unless you « reuse » the plate witch is not evident.
Also : plastic additives to avoid.
Toxic color pigment such as white
lead oxide.
Polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDE) : Is a flame retardant used in PCB, capacitors, electrical appliance plastics case, (liver toxicity, thyroid toxicity, and neurodevelopmental toxicity) (alternatives exists).
Phthalates : used in plastics to increase elasticity and Resistance to cracks (liver, testes damage and birth defects). Used a lot in PVC.
Bisphenol A : modifies hormonal responnse
Hope it help in your pursuit of a green stompbox. (Not the tubescreamer)
Frank
Quoteis that milk plastic good enough for knobs for example??
Easily. My parents have a TABLE TOP made out of it. It is cream-coloured and about 1/2 or 5/8 inch thick. It seems about as strong as bakelite or glass.
How cool was that post about plastics?
I used to work for an automotive PVC manufacturer (not in a science kind of way though...) and it was all above my head.
I believe you can also recycle the plastic that surrounds your beers - the little 4 (or 6) hole thing that holds them together in the fridge.
I've seen people press lots of these together, put a sheet of greaseproof paper over and iron it all into one flat sheet of plastic.
...obviously on a suitable surface underneath (and another greaseproof sheet).
Just a little note here which is pretty obvious, but anyway; On my own part I intend to buy a breadboard. That will save a lot of little perfboard bits from getting thrown away...
Very interesting comments about pcb's etc. There must be some kind of alternative material ? Or maybe some new ideas or approaches to a point-to-point kind of prosess ? Maybe someone could post their knowledge on non conductive materials which could be used for solder terminal projects ?
reading around about casein plastic, found out that you have to mix it with formaline to make it harder as bakelite...but formaldehid is pretty toxic...
Thanks for the very informative post, Frank!
Just want to point out, that the plastics that are numbered (in the U.S. anyway) 1-7 are all recyclable. Unfortunately not every town/city/county participates. So, some cities (like mine) may pick up all consumer grade plastics, but other cities will only take maybe #1 and #2.
My parents and in-laws bring their #3 through #7 plastics over to my place whenever they visit. We fill up our recycling bins quite full.
Quote from: brett on March 27, 2008, 01:58:16 AM
Quoteis that milk plastic good enough for knobs for example??
Easily. My parents have a TABLE TOP made out of it. It is cream-coloured and about 1/2 or 5/8 inch thick. It seems about as strong as bakelite or glass.
Quote from: dschwartz on March 27, 2008, 11:07:26 AM
reading around about casein plastic, found out that you have to mix it with formaline to make it harder as bakelite...but formaldehid is pretty toxic...
-Brett, do you know if your parents' tabletop is just plain old (non-toxic) casein plastic, or is it the stuff dschwartz is talking about?
testes damage??? I better stay away from that!!! :)
Quote from: runmikeyrun on March 27, 2008, 09:47:56 PM
testes damage??? I better stay away from that!!! :)
Just like with the Fender Twin Reverb lifting. ;)
i Love this thread another idea for re-using other devices for pedals computer speakers often come with a circut board that includes a 8 pin ic . with some work a ruby can easily be built into a computer speaker on its board. I am currently looking at an old one right now which has a 2w speaker and a circut board with an 8pin ic, 2 switches (1 dpdt and one 3 position switch), an led and a dc jack.
i think il make a ruby or litte gem this weerkend.
il post back with pictures.
peace
scott
yes, and the PSU´s are a pretty good source of caps and other parts.. the box make an excellent enclosure for a ruby amp, putting the speaker in the ventilation holes...
Quote from: dschwartz on March 28, 2008, 01:29:33 PM
yes, and the PSU´s are a pretty good source of caps and other parts.. the box make an excellent enclosure for a ruby amp, putting the speaker in the ventilation holes...
They also make good power supplies... :D
Solar powering stompboxes:
http://www.muzique.com/news/?p=5
http://www.muzique.com/news/?p=22
regards, Jack
I have a LOT (about 15) of old computers that had been given to me (they don't work anymore).
Plus all the power supplies that came with them.
Now what is worth pulling out of those. I see on the net that some guys do collections of the chips they get from computers.
Most electrolytics are 6.3 v so I guess it's not worth the trouble. (I've pulled 20 of them for nothing (?))
Some CPU heat sinks are great for making a small power amp.
Plenty of leds, switches, small 8 Ohm speakers. etc...
The old ones are better since the new boards are surface mounted.
What do you think is worth recycling ?
Hey funny I should stumble upon this thread because about four hours ago I was feeling very disgruntled that I just could not find a suitable piece of metal that I wanted for my theremin antenna. I decided to have a wander out the village to an area where I know people fly-tip and low and behold there is a perfect piece of metal for my antenna.
Hows that for recycling. :icon_cool:
Almost everyone here orders from Smallbear at some point. You know when your parts show up, and you have a tiny little plastic bag for each single different part you ordered???
If you guys order from Smallbear, try asking him to just ship everything in a single bag, or no bag, just the envelope if you're feeling daring. I think thats a fair request! I doubt you could give Mouser such a request, but I think Steve would listen.
I always save those little bags and try to use them whenever I can, but over the years, I must have over a hundred piling up now... Who needs em...?...
Good idea about reducing the plastic bags! That's one of those "little things" that can really add up if all of us do it. I will try that with my next order for sure.
Frank, you could modify the power supply for use with a medium-sized guitar amp, possibly. There are plenty of chip-amp setups that run on under 24V, and most PSUs have +12 and -12, with current available to make useful wattage. I mean to try this at some point in the future, but I don't really need another amp at the moment... :)
There are some considerations to using a PSU for non-computer purposes, like providing a load for the +5, making sure the "sense" wires are connected right, and physically getting the wires out of the PSU box and into your project, but it's all doable. There are lots of articles online. Search for "converting PSU or ATX power supply" and you'll find what you need.
If you just want to scavenge parts off the old computers rather than re-use the power supply, there are some goodies in there. I've seen people use the disk drives as pedal enclosures, for example. There are fans and motors in there too, which can be used for their intended purpose or used for their other functions. I bet you could get some inductor action out of a disk drive motor. But maybe not much.
Personally I find recieving the products all in separate little bags really helpful and time saving. I don't think Farnell's approach to shipping my order of transistors was too eco-friendly mind. I ordered 50 2n3904 and 50 2n3906 amongst other things and every 5 transistors were in their own bag. So for just those two itemst here were twenty bags. I'm not unhappy because in the scheme of things it doesn't bother me and I think Farnell are a great company and have always impressed me but it does make you wonder if big companies could be doing a little more to cut back on packaging. They also send even a small pack of diodes in a anti static bag then in a box lined with antistatic foam then in a big box or bubble wrapped envelope. That to me is good service and care for delivering their products. However this can't be great for the environment.
What we must remember is sometimes what seems good for environment isn't always. Take a energy saving light bulb in a home. Most of the in efficiencies in a standard light buld are that heat is given off. In a home environment the heating in the home is just going to have to do more work to make up for the extra heat needed to heat the house because the new energy saving bulbs aren't kicking out as much heat. Overall theres no net gain there.
Anyhow it's just a thought.
Quote from: demonstar on April 23, 2008, 06:11:44 PM
Personally I find recieving the products all in separate little bags really helpful and time saving. I don't think Farnell's approach to shipping my order of transistors was too eco-friendly mind. I ordered 50 2n3904 and 50 2n3906 amongst other things and every 5 transistors were in their own bag. So for just those two itemst here were twenty bags. I'm not unhappy because in the scheme of things it doesn't bother me and I think Farnell are a great company and have always impressed me but it does make you wonder if big companies could be doing a little more to cut back on packaging. They also send even a small pack of diodes in a anti static bag then in a box lined with antistatic foam then in a big box or bubble wrapped envelope. That to me is good service and care for delivering their products. However this can't be great for the environment.
;D ;D ;D
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=65812.msg530296#msg530296
Still sorting...
Paper brown bags are fine.
Quote from: demonstar on April 23, 2008, 06:11:44 PM
What we must remember is sometimes what seems good for environment isn't always. Take a energy saving light bulb in a home. Most of the in efficiencies in a standard light buld are that heat is given off. In a home environment the heating in the home is just going to have to do more work to make up for the extra heat needed to heat the house because the new energy saving bulbs aren't kicking out as much heat. Overall theres no net gain there.
+ 2
Plus if you have your electricity from hydraulic source you're not putting out too much greenhouse gases. And then, when the energy saver light bulb is finished, you're throwing all that electronic power supply in the landfill...
Just on the plastic bag note....
I save all mine and keep them organized by size. I use them to hold different resistors, caps etc. I re-use them a second time when I ship stuff to people.
Quote from: demonstar on April 23, 2008, 06:11:44 PM
What we must remember is sometimes what seems good for environment isn't always. Take a energy saving light bulb in a home. Most of the in efficiencies in a standard light buld are that heat is given off. In a home environment the heating in the home is just going to have to do more work to make up for the extra heat needed to heat the house because the new energy saving bulbs aren't kicking out as much heat. Overall theres no net gain there.
Anyhow it's just a thought.
I don't want to diverge too much from the topic, but I have to disagree a little bit on this point. The standard incandescent light bulb does not make a good heater. Think about it, you don't come home in the chill of winter and go "brrr, I'm going to turn on more lights," but you do crank up the heat. And what about in the summer? Anyway my point is that compact fluorescents (CFLs) really do make a net improvement in energy use over the course of a year. Incandescents do waste a lot of energy in the form of heat, but they probably don't make even a tenth of a degree's difference in heating a home. Now if you used CFL's in the summer and infrared heat lamps during the winter, that's completely different... :)
Which brings me back to this sentence: "What we must remember is sometimes what seems good for environment isn't always." Now that, I agree with. Compact fluorescents are a great example. They cut down on energy use for the consumer, but they take more energy to make, and contain things that are very tricky to dispose of like mercury. LED's are even more efficient but most of them contain gallium arsenide which is super toxic (though you don't quite have to worry about cracking an LED open and letting the toxic crap out like you can with a fluorescent).
There are two places you can cut down on energy use: supply side and demand side. Assuming the "green" movement is just a fad and will fade away like it did in the '80s, your money is better spend improving the supply side. Most power plants last 20 years, and it's easier to control pollution from one source than from many. Unfortunately most of them are coal powered because it's the status quo for the utility companies. But there are some excellent alternatives out there. Solar, wind, geothermal, and tidal power all produce energy without pollution and without permanently altering ecosystems. You can't even say that about hydroelectric, as good as it is, because a lake where a valley used to be is quite disruptive to the ecosystem, and eventually even the biggest dams will fill up with sediment.
I guess the main thing is that there are lots of details to consider when it comes to minimizing your environmental impact. The good thing is there are fanatics out there (like me) who will do the research for you. ...The bad thing is there are fanatics out there who will say the exact opposite!
...Anyway I'll stop my rant and get back to the topic!
Quote from: kurtlives on April 23, 2008, 10:37:32 PM
Just on the plastic bag note....
I save all mine and keep them organized by size. I use them to hold different resistors, caps etc. I re-use them a second time when I ship stuff to people.
I do the same thing. It starts to balance things out after a while... as the number of re-uses approaches infinity, the pollution value of the baggie approaches zero... :P
QuoteI don't want to diverge too much from the topic, but I have to disagree a little bit on this point.
Cool, your point is interesting. I wouldn't know enough to know which theory contained more truth, It was just something I read.
Anyhow I don't want to side-track your thread.
Perhaps a silly ide but could you lessen the current draw of a circuit by using a capacitive voltage divider instead of a pot? maybe use rotary switch to change cap values... ???
I've been thinking about this for a while now and i've come to this conclusion: make sure it will never come to anyone's mind to throw one of your creations in the trash: make them want to repair or have it repaired because it is a beautiful object.
Sometimes It amaze myself for how long I can think of something just to come to the most obvious banality: scary :icon_eek:
edit: and even if it's only for your own usage, afterall you are only the temporary curator of it...
Since it's the greenest stompbox contest we should give some credit to Alex and put some more ideas here. This thread is drowning now and it is not normal in the context of the contest. ;)
In my limited experience, PC power supplies are extremely noisy, maybe the few that I tried were just at the end of thier life.
Something green related that does make me grind my teeth. Is this idea of charging us at the super market if we want plastic bags. Up until I was in my late teens it was all paper bags at the store. Then the far left wingers started crying about all the trees we were killing just to carry our groceries home. So they forced the plastic bags on us. Cool, I've got no problem with that, and everybody's happy.
Now in 2008 the very same group of people have thier panty's in a twist because of plastic bag pollution everywhere.
What does the plastic bag have to do with it? Its a BAG!!! It can't DO anything. Its people. People who don't throw them away properly or recycle them. People who just throw them on the ground or more often, just leave them for the wind to take care of. So, because of these people you want to take money out of my pocket? Righhhhhhtt.
Rant over.
Jered
Thanks for the rant, Jered!
I've collected about a dozen pc power supplies and someday I'll do a noise test on them all (someday).
But a plastic bag tax is silly. First off, they're not "free," or "given away." You already pay for the bags whether you use them or not (cost is spread out over the cost of the things you buy). It makes more sense to just charge people for the bags that they use. If you want to cut down on pollution, stop charging everyone for the bags, and start charging ONLY the people who use them.
I always get a little depressed when I see threads like this. Economics is called the dismal science, and engineering economics is doubly so. That's not because there's anything wrong with them, they work just fine. But they have the effect of quickly limiting what can possibly be done down to what really can be done.
One of the facets of engineering that is used for quick answers is to look for limiting conditions. In this context, what would the effect on warm, cuddly, earth-saving, green-friendliness be if plastic bags were flatly outlawed? Or for that matter, all stompboxes? Would that save the planet? Chances are, no, it would make such a slight difference that it would just postpone Armageddon by 0.01 second.
Well, OK, that's not really the point is it? The idea is that if every human being conducted every facet of their lives trying to avoid any impact on the planet in every possible way, it would be better, somewhat, somehow. It's that imponderable somewhat, somehow that lets you believe that by not using plastic bags and driving less the world will get better and better and better.
Engineering Econ says "How much better? in numbers, please."
One boundary condition we have to work with is what I call the Primary Limit. How much food, water, air and shelter do humans use? Every bit of food, every drop of water, every breath of air, and every shelter we erect denies the planet of that for other uses. So the bottom line is - how many people are there, and what freedoms will you allow them? Can they, for instance, use more than six quarts of fresh water per person per day? Eat more than 2000 calories? Of rice only? Wheat only? Any animal protein allowed at all? Can they use energy other than their own muscle power, such as electrical or chemical (natural gas, gasoline, diesel, burning wood, etc)? How much? Will you let the people who set the limits use more because they're smarter/better/more valuable?
Every other environmental issue is merely a matter of how severely you will impose limits of whatever it is on the people that do exist so that the people can exist at the same time and how much environmental degradation you will allow. There is no environmental question you can pose that cannot ultimately be traced back to these limiting conditions.
To me, discussions of how many people will refuse plastic bags are superfluous in that context. They may make one feel like gosh-a-rooty, I'm doing something for The Environment (echo, echo, echo), but they don't change the tally much. And yes, making you feel good is OK, but it's not like really saving the planet. There is probably some population of humans on the planet that the biosystem could absorb with negligible degradation. Lots of people feel we're past that number. Probably true.
Then there's the issue of guilt. How guilty should one feel if they use more than the average food/air/water/energy use for all humans, let alone more than the sustainable (if unknown yet) limits for people on the planet?
Human nature is, on average, antithetical to the kinds of limits which must be imposed to get sustainable.
Every time I see an attempt to popularize insignificant environmetal issues, I can't help but leap to the Primary Limit, and the fact that nothing is being done about it. Solve that one, you solve them all. But the solution is going to be ugly, I think.
The problem is also that there is a difference between environmentalism and ecology. The first is an ideology and the second is a science. What we hear a lot in every days life is about environmentalists point of view. And this speech is borrowing fragments of ecology concepts to attain the ideological goal of a perfect world. Now everybody is mixing the two words and I don't like it.
Ecology is much more complex and it involves about every aspects of science. Statistical analysis of the influence of X pollutant (or %^&*tail) on Y aspect of the ecosystem is pretty boring to hear about, is complex and is not what people wants to hear about. The media don't want to get into that neither because it project an image of endless complicated quests. Public will react when they see a comparative satellite photography of melting polar ice, a frog with three legs, etc. But environmentalists are using those chocking images to hit a nail, not to make people understand better. But at the end, what intelligent thing will be done ? THIS IS WHY I HATE ENVIRONMNTALISTS. They just act like preachers in the name of the Environmental-God and most of the time for their own satisfaction of thinking that they save the world.
Reading suggestion:
Environmental Economics, Barry C. Field
It's not true that nothing had been done by manufacturers in America to have a better environment (sorry for using that word), a lot of statistics prove that the air we inhale and water that we drink is better than some years ago...
Wow, 7000 posts, R.G. That's a nice round-numbered milestone, and a testament to your strange compulsion to share your knowledge so freely, for which many of us are very grateful. :)
R.G. hit the nail on the head by addressing the closed system/exponential growth problem. Humanity has 2 choices if it wants to continue living on the planet: set a limit on the number of humans, or find other planets to use up. Well, 3 choices if you count Soylent Green as an option.
Personally I think the push will be to find other planets. Sure, we'll be that bad-guy species that sucks the life force out of other planets, but only because we're doing it out of respect for the rights of every human to reproduce as much as they feel like. We're invading your planet because we're so compassionate. Look out, Ewoks. You are made of meat.
Now I'll get really morbid and claim that all these discussions are, at their hearts, moral dilemmas. It comes down to what you want to do with your time, and what you believe is the RIGHT thing to do. That's a big burden if you take it seriously, and a good motivator to turn the responsibility over to some "higher power" or other.
But I think the good that comes out of discussions of how to reduce your dependency on grocery bags or automobiles is much more than just "pat yourself on the back, hippie." When we re-evaluate our consumption, it helps to pull back the veil of assumptions we've made about what we think we need. Driving a little less can lead to deciding to live closer to town, closer to family, maybe feeling more connected to your community, and caring a little more about the people in it.
I could go on and on, but I have to check for unread posts about little boxes with switches and knobs on them...
;D
-Alex
can we recycle vinyl? so that we can release music on recycled material instead of new plastics. so then artists could release digitally and/or on vinyl.
Quote from: bonkdav on May 19, 2008, 03:05:32 PM
can we recycle vinyl? so that we can release music on recycled material instead of new plastics. so then artists could release digitally and/or on vinyl.
Yes it can be done but there are some complications:
1- Recycling for records need to be a very "clean" process, otherwise you will have a lot of "blips"
2- The more you re-utilise, the more the mechanical properties goes down, vinyl is very sensible to heat deterioration while melting, you have to use stabilisers that are not very "green" (ex: organotins)
3- Vinyl is a low cost plastic so the recycling process must not cost more than the new plastic
CDs are not very green, the problem is that it is a multilayer disc (mostly polycarbonate, aluminium and some other plastics). You really have to work hard to separate these materials.
Just thought I would "bump" this thread today, as May's FX-X was all about recycled stuff, and Andrew is asking people if they have a submission. If someone does, he may extend the deadline. Step up, people! I know you've got stuff.
If you're in need of ideas, there are some good ones in this thread, I think.
It's hip to recycle!
Just found a soy-based clearcoat that adheres to metal: http://www.ecosafetyproducts.com/Poly-Soy-Clear-Gloss-Finish-p/p1-3005s.htm
Who's gonna be the first to order the $3 sample? Might be me...
If someone uses this, or something like it, please let us know how it works out for you!
actually that is what Devi Ever USA uses for their pedals! so it must work great as far as ive seen!
right now I use Minwax Polycrylic. maybe its not as good as that soy stuff, but at least im not using an aerosol spray anymore
fwiw, i have heard tht lots of soy farming involves clear cutting rain forest. kinda makes ya wonder
thatys right..biodiesel is causing a lot of ecological problems too..is truly the definition of IRONIC..
(chuckle...) but biodiesel is carbon neutral. So it's universally GOOD, right? Now if only Al Gore's private airplane ran on biodiesel. :icon_rolleyes:
i meant problems like deforestation or use of soil previously meant for growing food ..in brazil, rice and other cereals production rates dropped down hard cause everybody planted sugar cane to produce biodiesel...so, what do you prefer..a cleaner air or something to eat?
That's cool that Devi Ever is using that stuff... I was searching for a non-toxic clearcoat and just stumbled across it. When I did the same search a few years ago, there was nowhere near the diversity of non-toxic products that there is now. It's great. It's as if people all over actually took the time to read the label on the back and went "Why have I been breathing in this crap? Gross!"
Re: the other stuff...
Sugar cane is used to produce ethanol, the combustion by-products of which are actually worse for you to breathe than gasoline. The idea that anyone would cut food production to make a quick buck (on a fuel that could only be economical in the short run) is either ignorance in the crop management department or an example of the dark side of capitalism.
Biofuels should only be viewed as an in-between fuel, or a fuel to be used when no other alternative is practical. While you could produce biodiesel very efficiently (salt water algae farms in the desert come to mind), the big limiting factor is the internal combustion engine. People should abandon the idea of filling up cars with liquid.
And in general...
We're in the midst of what the U.S. Dept. of Energy would call a new "energy frontier," and it's a time of change. There are bound to be growing pains. It's healthy and productive to take notice of things that can be done better. What's not healthy is giving up on a solution at the first sign of difficulty.
we are getting closer to a point of inflection of modern history, and frankly, that scares me a whole lot. Alternative energy sources exists and can be improved, but the network economics of oil based fuels is simply too strong, like a methastasys cancer..if you want it oput, you have to take part of the liver, the lungs, etc.
changing fuel source will inevitably mean a kind of armaggeddon, just think a moment of what would happen..how many millions of cars to be disposed? where? how?. Oil companies have a LOT of power, wars, probably a big world war is very likely to happen trying to control the lasts drops..
let´s say that an alternative- cheap-efficient form of energy source is discovered and set as standard..bringing it to the masses would be near impossible on the short term, there will be a period of time where the world is going to stop..and people is going to die..a lot of people..
this issue is bothering me for years, many people say to me "oh it´s gonna be hard to change from oil to something else, but technology is advancing very fast, and i´m sure someone is going to figure it out.." i think "you have no idea, the problem is not the fuel, is the economics"
anyway, i´m pretty sure that the world after this collapse, is going to be much better than this..we will learn the lesson
Quote from: dschwartz on July 03, 2008, 04:05:48 PM
i meant problems like deforestation or use of soil previously meant for growing food ..in brazil, rice and other cereals production rates dropped down hard cause everybody planted sugar cane to produce biodiesel...so, what do you prefer..a cleaner air or something to eat?
If we don't quit making more people somehow, you won't have the question. Even at our current population, the competition between food and energy resources is obvious.
Lest everyone forget - fossil fuels made the existing standard of living possible. It is not possible to feed the planet's population **today** without burning oil, natural gas and coal. You can't do it burning wood, grass and leftover rice straw. What made the industrial revolution possible was the substitution of fossil fuels for human and animal labor on farms. That let farmers feed more people off the farms, and that let the non-farmers concentrate on problems like where does the quark go when it meets an anti-quark.
I don't see anyone thinking about what kind of world we have when we solve the environmental problems to the satisfaction of the environmentalists. I bet it's something like a few tribes living in temporary huts in the forest and subsisting without fire or tools, both of which are environmental degraders, right?
It's that engineering econ thing again. Mother Nature insists that the equations balance.
What happens to the land underneath solar collectors? Not a lot of light in there. Won't grow food plants. A lot of solar collectors is just as big a change to the ecology as is fossil fuel burning. Hmmm, so to keep from destroying ecology/climate with solar collectors, we have to be careful not only where we put them but how many we can use. Then there are the lawsuits over who blocks whose view of the sun. Is it YOUR solar energy from sunup to sundown or only between 10AM and 2PM? Can your neighbor grow a shade tree and block YOUR sunlight for part of the day?
Ultimately all of the considerations like that end up in either limiting the per-capita energy available to humans for things like air, food, clothing, and shelter, or they limit the number of humans, which amounts to the same thing.
No one in the whole debate will say much about the real issue. That's not what they want you worried about.
Quote from: dschwartz on July 03, 2008, 05:54:45 PM
we are getting closer to a point of inflection of modern history, and frankly, that scares me a whole lot. Alternative energy sources exists and can be improved, but the network economics of oil based fuels is simply too strong, like a methastasys cancer..if you want it oput, you have to take part of the liver, the lungs, etc.
changing fuel source will inevitably mean a kind of armaggeddon, just think a moment of what would happen..how many millions of cars to be disposed? where? how?. Oil companies have a LOT of power, wars, probably a big world war is very likely to happen trying to control the lasts drops..
Don't take it so hard. There's a company in San Jose California that has gene-spliced a variety of bacteria that when fed agricultural wastes like straw, corn stalks, etc., excretes... you guessed! Long chain petroleum. Not much of an armageddon if we start growing our (carbon neutral!) petroleum in vats of rancid weed stalks, is it? You know that will stop that? Yep, the environmentalists will issue lawsuits forever trying to prevent the oil-growing vats from being built.
Quote from: dschwartz on July 03, 2008, 05:54:45 PMlet´s say that an alternative- cheap-efficient form of energy source is discovered and set as standard..bringing it to the masses would be near impossible on the short term, there will be a period of time where the world is going to stop..and people is going to die..a lot of people..
this issue is bothering me for years, many people say to me "oh it´s gonna be hard to change from oil to something else, but technology is advancing very fast, and i´m sure someone is going to figure it out.." i think "you have no idea, the problem is not the fuel, is the economics"
True. But, the USA is sitting on huge deposits of oil and coal which we have not dug out yet. The amount of shock is proportional to how fast the switch is made. Fast switch, big trouble. Give it a few decades, no big deal.
Quote from: dschwartz on July 03, 2008, 05:54:45 PMl
anyway, i´m pretty sure that the world after this collapse, is going to be much better than this..we will learn the lesson
I hope you're right, if there is a collapse. I think there will not be one if we can get the eco-lunies out of the way. But don't count on any government learning a lesson. That's why the framers of the US constitution tried to keep it turning over. At least if power corrupts, you can keep a fresh supply of non-corrupted people circulating through the government. At least that was the idea.
Things are going so fast; just a few years ago biodiesel was viewed as a moderately potential solution. Now we see it has some perverse effects on the food supplies... : price of fuel, basic food necessities (and etc.) are going up (like Daniel said). The "inertia (in the slow speeding-up physical sense)" of political decision making and changing in mentality (perhaps even learning time) are leaving everybody perplex. Really, how could an international and scientific (ecological) council (I don't talk about idealists) could have the ressources to analyse all that stuff and the political power to control the synergy between nations ? It's really making me doubt we are going to have a serious plan and do something logical about it. That would be a huge task. Perhaps what will happen is more nuclear power, limitation of natality (as R.G.) said and natural selection (and mutations) if it gets to more radiations on earth by perverse effect... I really don't know. I "so" really don't know that I would tend to say like Buddha: "there are allways going to be suffering, we have to accept it, be aware and try to reduce it. But at the end it will still be there: we have no choice about that. We just have to face that it's there and engage totally in the way to solve what we see as problematic. It's not pessimism or optimism, it's just what is here" But who could really have the shoulders to take that task (?) In that dead end situation I would also tend to borrow from Epicurus: "Since you are alive, it's that death has not met you (be happy). And if you were dead you would not be here to say it is sad (so be happy)."
On that positive note DIY in joy.
Good points, all around. Relating back to stompboxes, for me the lesson here is to concentrate on improving quality of life, in the local sense, rather than focusing on quantity/productivity... Meaning, spend the extra physical labor making your own enclosures out of steel studs from the salvage yard, rather than have one shipped from far away. Spend the extra bucks on a finish that is safe to breathe, that sort of thing.
Global problems require global effort to solve, that much is clear. But the air quality in your own home is at least somewhat within our individual control. Maybe a soy-based finish is not a perfect choice, but if I buy it instead of one that has a lot of VOCs, that is (sort of) sending a message to the industry that the demand for safer chemicals is growing.
Thanks for the input, everyone! Lots of food for thought...
I ordered some of the stuff, simply because I'm always looking for a super-hard clear coat (which I haven't found).
New question:
Does anyone know of a natural/sustainable or otherwise "green" alternative to the little rubber adhesive feet you stick on the bottom of stompboxes to keep them from sliding around?
Also the big rubber pad on the bottom of Boss-type pedals.
I was thinking cork, but the kind from wine bottles is pretty flimsy and wouldn't hold up very long I don't think. Any suggestions?
I buy cork feet from home depot. they are basically the same price as the clear rubberplastic you get form smallbear/etc. but they are ncie. 1/2" circle, abotu 1/16" thick.
Thanks for the reply. How is the durability? Are they natural cork?
durability is fine and its just normal cork as far as i can tell!
They sell large sheets of cork for corkboards and things at craft stores, if you want the big Boss type.
If you really want to go green just use rocks. :D
Rocks might actually make cool knobs. Or a big, flat one for a stomp switch cover.
Hi Alex,
PCB wise...
I saw a TV program (Daily Planet, on Discovery) where they tried to make a "green" racing car. They changed the body parts so they did not have to use fiberglass or carbon composites.
Basically what they did was to replace the matrix with some cellulose fiber and changing the artificial polymers with a chemically modified vegetable oil that could be polymerised. They made some attempts that were so-so durable and they finally found a good combination.
I don't know if you could find the program on the web... I tough it might interest you.
Sounds cool, thanks Frank. :)
...Old, worn down Knobby Bike Tires !..the innertube too !
I use every bit [almost].
They make excellent amplifier 'suspensions', I can 'plop' my amp on a hard surface and it just makes a 'mump' noise ['bump' with an M instead of a hard vowel like 'B'].
This keeps the tubes on a 'cadillac' suspension when it's riding on a rough riding cabinet, this will help extend tube life, I've never seen such mushy yet durable looking feet on any amp.
I used the steel cable in these tires [a rubber-clad rim 'cable' seats to the wheel rim can be cut out]...I just cut out a stretch, bend it just right...whizzamm...a springy guitar head grabber...and I made a 3 guitar rack that hangs on a door ! Slick and quick to get a spring loaded head grabber shaped and 'pushed' into shape by the spacing and angling of the holes I put in the 'mantle piece' [an old bed headboard]...drill a couple holes in a board and shove the bent up, rubberized cable through.
The method produces a springy 'open loop' [ a 'U' shape with two long feet, the feet stick through the 'mantle' board holes] holds the rubber clad cable tight around the guitar neck/head, hanging and retrieving the guitars is easy.
I'm sure either the tire or the innertube might be able to offer a good rubbery foot for a stompbox too, trim and epoxy I think.
Saves: Shipping fuel, new production rubber fuel, etc.
Awesome ideas, Pete!
Also if you really want to be energy efficient:
http://www.robotroom.com/Solar-Soldering.html
I've been going the non-toxic paint route for a little while now. water-based acrylics that I paint with a brush rather than spraycan.
Awesome link, Frank!
Quote from: cloudscapes on February 20, 2009, 12:36:32 PM
I've been going the non-toxic paint route for a little while now. water-based acrylics that I paint with a brush rather than spraycan.
...and the results are beautiful, from what I've seen of your work!
For those who have access to cool junkyards: I'd love to buy weird old boxes for electronic projects, but I do not have a car and there is no nearby junkyard. Would anyone be interested in creating sort of a salvage trading post on this forum? People could buy more cool stuff than they could personally use, then people like me would buy it from them. I realize that by shipping this stuff we'd be expending fuel, which is antithetical to being green, but it would at least keep this stuff from landfills, and the fuel would be negated by the fuel that isn't expended by buying boxes from Mouser or Small Bear...
The Electronic Peasant has something like this, which I check from time to time:
http://www.electronicpeasant.com/tpost/tradingp.html
http://www.electronicpeasant.com/sources/salvage.html
Anybody into this idea?
Great idea! Re-using something is inherently more efficient than modding or buying new.
Check out freecycle.org and see if there's on in your area. It's like Craigslist, but free.
I just opened up a retired faxmodem and found a bunch of worthwhile (but mostly surface mount) parts inside:
LM386
TL082
74VHC04
a diode bridge, 5V LDO, assorted 16V electrolytic caps, and lotsa LEDs, diodes, and passives, all of which could be used for many linear circuits.
Plus a little speaker.
I don't know if anyone mentioned modems here yet, but apparently they're good for parts scrounging, if you don't mind the small size.
humm... I have an old 56kbps modem that I could tear apart :icon_twisted:
Thanks for the idea!
Modems are also often useful for their enclosures, depending on the size. Later ones are too small to be of much use, but some older ones, and related stuff like external hard drives and disk drives, are perfect for small amps or stompboxes.
This thread is Fascinating !!! Being a Green guy :icon_mrgreen: and always casting a gaze at local trash piles , I noticed much castaway furniture , with lots of wooden knobs :icon_eek: Possibility there :icon_idea: ... and furniture with round legs , spindles, etc.... Schmaybe' another knob source with a little sawing and drilling.. ??
Our Friend KY builds stompboxes in common electrical outlet boxes... lots of those to be found in the trash at a renovation site... Older used ones look more Vintage and Bad a**
Our drummer was tossing his old utility case (black resin /cardboard stuff) looked for all the world like Fender eyelet board material .. tested non conductive ... so might be a good board material ... I told him to save it for us ... boards for years ... FREE!!! and re-cycled
So many possibilities... You guys are Great !!!! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool: