I saw this over at the Music Electronics Forum. Everyone needs to read it.
http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20General%20Requirements.html (http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20General%20Requirements.html)
Funnily enough my next fuzz project is going to be sent into orbit by the European Space Agency. :icon_lol:
Great post, as usual. Thanks!!
Quote from: frequencycentral on June 10, 2008, 02:21:52 PM
Funnily enough my next fuzz project is going to be sent into orbit by the European Space Agency. :icon_lol:
Tee-hee!
But shouldn't it be made so it COULD BE?? :icon_biggrin:
Good read. Thanks.
Worse than anything encountered in space:
a) beer
(http://boldt.us/4828-4/beer-spill)
b) drummer
(http://www.troys-drums.com/images/animal_drums.jpg)
Did NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings?
I thought I had some decent soldering skillz 'til I read that :(
I like the idea for reinforcing glass components though.
Good post. Good guide
NASA is EXTREMELY picky about solder joints. I should know. I worked at JPL back in the late 80's
And believe it or not, by that page, it seems they are slacking off.
There are a few "Acceptable" things there that were BIG no-nos back then.
But its a good guide none the less
the good, the bad and the Ugly... :D
(http://mostellar.com/spdif/circuitboard_bottom.jpg)
Did it work? ^^^
Quote from: Naz Nomad on June 10, 2008, 03:21:21 PM
Did NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings?
Low very low :P
Still laughed though, I know I shouldnt but Meh!
QuoteDid NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings?
Really classy. :icon_evil:
Hey everyone needs to shrink wrap their Ge's & Si's now, mKay? :icon_lol:
Quote from: ayayay! on June 10, 2008, 04:23:11 PM
QuoteDid NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings?
Really classy. :icon_evil:
It wasn't meant to come across as a humourous comment ... maybe I should've said, "Did those ba$turds at NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings, probably not?"
Sorry if I upset anyone that thought I was making a joke of it.
Should have a whole scanned book on military electronics standards, the non-stripped-down version of the above link.
It's a nice challenge trying to follow these too.
[EDIT] may come as a bit of an OT but here's one method to test mil-spec pedals: http://youtube.com/watch?v=hKZLNKqvFAI (http://youtube.com/watch?v=hKZLNKqvFAI)
--------
Jimbo
Very good! +1 to previously thinking my soldering skills were OK!
Quote from: Naz Nomad on June 10, 2008, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: ayayay! on June 10, 2008, 04:23:11 PM
QuoteDid NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings?
Really classy. :icon_evil:
It wasn't meant to come across as a humourous comment ... maybe I should've said, "Did those ba$turds at NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings, probably not?"
Sorry if I upset anyone that thought I was making a joke of it.
NASA didn't have anything to do with Challenger's breakup, it was upper management at Morton Thiokol that ignored the engineer's concerns about the launch conditions. There was a spec, and it would indicate that the launch conditions were outside of the safe operating temperatures of the seal.
I don't mean to be a d-bag, I just had to join the conversation being a space junky and all.
I've just been schooled. I thought I knew how to solder!
Quote from: CodeMonk on June 10, 2008, 03:35:59 PM
Good post. Good guide
NASA is EXTREMELY picky about solder joints. I should know. I worked at JPL back in the late 80's
And believe it or not, by that page, it seems they are slacking off.
There are a few "Acceptable" things there that were BIG no-nos back then.
But its a good guide none the less
I was trained in the late 60s with an Australian Government organisation, and I'm a little surprised at some of the "Acceptable" things as well.
Maybe slightly OT, but I'm seeing many cases where anal neatness is becoming more important than functionality. Yesterday I worked on a PA system rack that has a digital microphone, using Cat5, unshielded, cable. The mic is occasionally going into busy mode, requiring the cable to be unplugged to reset the mode. The rack is very neatly cabled, so neatly that the Cat5 cable is tightly tied to the 100V line speaker cables for at least 2 metres. I'm betting that induced voltages from the speaker cables into the Cat5 are exceeding the capability of the digital interface to combat noise.
Quote from: Naz Nomad on June 10, 2008, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: ayayay! on June 10, 2008, 04:23:11 PM
QuoteDid NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings?
Really classy. :icon_evil:
It wasn't meant to come across as a humourous comment ... maybe I should've said, "Did those ba$turds at NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings, probably not?"
Sorry if I upset anyone that thought I was making a joke of it.
Well, I thought it was a joke, and a pretty damn good one, and I even laughed. I guess that makes me the ba$turd.
Anyways, whole else found themselves guilty of at least 10 or more violations?
Both the O-ring & the tile disasters can teach us something:
In both cases, there were 'feelings' & 'concern' that things were a bit iffy - but they kept getting away with it (blow by erosion of o-rings & multiple foam drops) and, eventually as they kept getting away with it, concern dropped to zero.
So the message is - don't slack off, because nothing has gone wrong YET.
QuoteMaybe slightly OT, but I'm seeing many cases where anal neatness is becoming more important than functionality.
There's a lot of "beauty contest" stuff going on in boo-teek land right now. It's especially in amps, but you see it in pedals too. Overt and anal attention to "purtyness" impresses neophytes, but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how well the circuit functions or how reliable it will be. Excessive and unnecessary 90 degree wire bends are one example of the stupidity. Someone posts a photo and the next thing you know there's a rash of armchair experts that perpetuate the mythology.
Quote from: DougH on June 11, 2008, 10:33:33 AM
Excessive and unnecessary 90 degree wire bends are one example of the stupidity.
You mean sharply bend wires isn't the answer? I'm going to go against the grain and say that I want my wires to have the largest voltage drop possible - and an unpredictable drop at that! ;)
QuoteQuote
Maybe slightly OT, but I'm seeing many cases where anal neatness is becoming more important than functionality.
There's a lot of "beauty contest" stuff going on in boo-teek land right now. It's especially in amps, but you see it in pedals too. Overt and anal attention to "purtyness" impresses neophytes, but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how well the circuit functions or how reliable it will be. Excessive and unnecessary 90 degree wire bends are one example of the stupidity. Someone posts a photo and the next thing you know there's a rash of armchair experts that perpetuate the mythology.
I also find it funny that the guys who do the "anal wire bends" are the ones who probably don't want you cracking their stuff open. The advantage of the nice 90 degree bends are that the guys who look inside can easily work on it, but the builders don't realize how easy they've made it for hackers. I love it. Ha! I'm all for refinement, but that doesn't mean it should cost more.
Quote from: DougH on June 11, 2008, 10:33:33 AM
QuoteMaybe slightly OT, but I'm seeing many cases where anal neatness is becoming more important than functionality.
Excessive and unnecessary 90 degree wire bends are one example of the stupidity. Someone posts a photo and the next thing you know there's a rash of armchair experts that perpetuate the mythology.
Bundling of wires with no attention to the nature of the wire (signal? ground? power?)
The old HiWatt amps that started this whole mess are great examples --they are noisier than they should be.
-Eric
Posted, but thought better of it.
i am guilty of (sometimes) trying to wire things really neatly, it is a good exercise in workmanship. 90* angles and all that.
it makes the customer feel good about what they bought.
but i won't break any rules about signal lines parallel to power lines etc.
as i understand it, mil spec in electronics was designed to make electronics impervious to harsh vibration and still function, and to make seviceability in the field as easy and fast as possible. the 90 degree bends often achieve this by making certain components below or adjacent more accessible.
but i also see the point, people gettin all boutiqu-ey about it is a little creepy too!
T'ain't no big deal either way. I bend wires when it makes sense. It's the "makes sense" part that is important. :icon_mrgreen:
I dunno 25 years after the incident, I think you are safe to make that kind of joke. And with regards to the infractions, I am invoking the 5th (even if I am not merkin).
Quote from: Sir_Ian on June 11, 2008, 03:53:57 AM
Quote from: Naz Nomad on June 10, 2008, 06:02:55 PM
Quote from: ayayay! on June 10, 2008, 04:23:11 PM
QuoteDid NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings?
Really classy. :icon_evil:
It wasn't meant to come across as a humourous comment ... maybe I should've said, "Did those ba$turds at NASA have a similar spec for fitting O-rings, probably not?"
Sorry if I upset anyone that thought I was making a joke of it.
Well, I thought it was a joke, and a pretty damn good one, and I even laughed. I guess that makes me the ba$turd.
Anyways, whole else found themselves guilty of at least 10 or more violations?
Quote from: DougH on June 11, 2008, 10:33:33 AM
QuoteMaybe slightly OT, but I'm seeing many cases where anal neatness is becoming more important than functionality.
There's a lot of "beauty contest" stuff going on in boo-teek land right now. It's especially in amps, but you see it in pedals too. Overt and anal attention to "purtyness" impresses neophytes, but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how well the circuit functions or how reliable it will be. Excessive and unnecessary 90 degree wire bends are one example of the stupidity. Someone posts a photo and the next thing you know there's a rash of armchair experts that perpetuate the mythology.
It's not limited only to boo-teek land. The PA rack I spoke about was built by a local commercial PA company that supplies systems to shopping malls, schools etc. I know the guy who built it. He claims to have qualifications in electronics, but seems to have only rudimentary knowledge at best. Over a couple of years, it has become obvious that he is using the neatness thing as a cover for his lack of knowledge. There are also other problems with the wiring of the rack. I contract to this company as a troubleshooter when their own "techs" can't come up with an answer. By the time I've corrected the problems, most of their profit on this installation will go to me.
The same guy is "Training Officer" for the company, so his BS will continue down the line.
Peter.
Regarding the NASA document, I don't know how they got into my garage for all those pictures but frankly, I think it's an invasion of my privacy.
Regarding neatness, some of the old Matchless amps look like a "turd in a punchbowl" on the inside but they sure sound good. Whoda thunk?
Quote from: David on June 11, 2008, 03:34:25 PM
Posted, but thought better of it.
David, you are a wiser man than I.
Quote from: Sir_Ian on June 11, 2008, 03:53:57 AM
Anyways, whole else found themselves guilty of at least 10 or more violations?
I didn't really go through it all, but I dare say I'd come out of it badly.
When we got a new laptop last year I had to download the PCB program I use and install the 'key' to activate it. I hadn't really bothered with updates on the old laptop so everything had changed. I fired up a layout and there were these little circles peppered all over the artwork. After consulting the help section I discovered that they highlighted design/regulation breaches for what is considered good layout practice (a new feature of the updated program). I wasn't concerned as it followed
my design rules: see what you can get away with. The layout worked, that's all that mattered. :icon_redface:
Yo
Great article thanks R.G. Reminds me of when I open up my first builds and gasp at the crappy wiring job. I prefer tidy wiring but I stop at the extreme. Rat's nests are asking for trouble.
--Brad
And think about methods Nasa did not bother to documnet. Like using screw on terminals made for larger current and wire, instead of soldering, and just take wires and cables what ya can find in the carbage can somewhere in the building ya are called to repair "things".
All I can say some gauges are slippery under screws terminal and breaks easily