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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: ech0es on December 16, 2008, 05:10:12 AM

Title: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 16, 2008, 05:10:12 AM
Hi everybody!

I need your help to do a layout for this schematic:
(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/7200/v30simjl2edittv8.gif)

It's a celestion vintage 30 simulator, here is the clean real V30/simulator
(http://emmeffects.free.fr/Elec/SimulHP/comparaison-smaple-clean.gif)

Crunch Real V30/simulator:
(http://emmeffects.free.fr/Elec/SimulHP/comparaison-smaple-crunch.gif)

And the samples:
V30
http://emmeffects.free.fr/Elec/SimulHP/clean1.ogg     
SIM       
http://emmeffects.free.fr/Elec/SimulHP/clean2.ogg

SIM
http://emmeffects.free.fr/Elec/SimulHP/crunch1.ogg
V30
http://emmeffects.free.fr/Elec/SimulHP/crunch2.ogg

Thanks a lot for your help !
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: Güero on December 16, 2008, 05:13:08 PM
Could you please post a better definition schematic?
Just for sure about the components values...
tks
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: bamera on December 16, 2008, 08:01:53 PM
Sounds very close to the real thing!!!
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on December 16, 2008, 10:35:26 PM
That sounds pretty good.
I would agree on a clearer picture of the schematic, some of the values are hard
to make out. I wouldn't mind trying a layout for this one.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: OnLyTNT on December 17, 2008, 03:11:07 AM
I can make a layout too, if you can supply a better schematic. Actually, I do want to make one :icon_mrgreen: . Low resolution export to bitmap causes such dirty schematics, just for information. And.. sounds awesome.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 17, 2008, 07:06:52 AM
Better definition schematic

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9830/v30originalkh2.jpg
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: rnfr on December 17, 2008, 08:36:41 AM
there aleady is a pcb layout for this made by the french guys that designed it.  there is a link to it in the thread in the "other" forum.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: DougH on December 17, 2008, 08:44:03 AM
That does sound very good. Best speaker sim clip I've heard yet.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 17, 2008, 08:51:36 AM
Quote from: rnfr on December 17, 2008, 08:36:41 AM
there aleady is a pcb layout for this made by the french guys that designed it.  there is a link to it in the thread in the "other" forum.

yes but it's a pcb for the entire thing, i don't need the line out and the headphone ouput
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: Ripthorn on December 17, 2008, 10:22:17 AM
That thing sounds great, but is that really a 25W 8 ohm resistor in there?  Wouldn't that be massive?
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: DougH on December 17, 2008, 10:37:50 AM
I guess that begs the question of whether this was intended for line level or a speaker connection on the input.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 17, 2008, 11:31:53 AM
Quote from: Ripthorn on December 17, 2008, 10:22:17 AM
That thing sounds great, but is that really a 25W 8 ohm resistor in there?  Wouldn't that be massive?

It's made initially to be plugged from a power amp, it's a dummy load which act like a speaker
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: Ripthorn on December 17, 2008, 11:35:33 AM
Then could this be made without that resistor to work on a line level signal?  Or would further modifications be needed?
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 17, 2008, 12:14:02 PM
it should work without this resistor.

Let's make a layout ! (pliizz  ::) )
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: modsquad on December 17, 2008, 01:22:33 PM
Sounds like someone wants somebody else to do all the work...and persistant too. :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: slacker on December 17, 2008, 01:31:32 PM
What sort of power supply does it expect? Looks like it's designed to be run off a bipolar supply judging by the lack of input and output caps and the fact that everything is referenced to ground.

I can knock up a quick vero layout if that's any use to anyone.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 17, 2008, 02:25:48 PM
Quote from: modsquad on December 17, 2008, 01:22:33 PM
Sounds like someone wants somebody else to do all the work...and persistant too. :icon_rolleyes:

Not all the work, and it's in my first post:
"i need help blablabla.."  ::)
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on December 17, 2008, 04:43:58 PM
Here's a PCB layout for it. Let me know if you see any errors before
I post the pnp.


(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k288/fixr1984/Schematics%20and%20layouts/v30.gif)
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: rnfr on December 17, 2008, 10:10:17 PM
in the original schem it looks like it runs off of 15v and 22v bipolar supplies.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on December 17, 2008, 11:17:19 PM
Alright I see what you mean, I think then all I have to do
is break connection at pin 11 and make that V-
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 18, 2008, 07:14:16 AM
maybe we should add a max1044 to have a -V and +V:

http://www.geofex.com/circuits/+9_to_-9.htm

(http://www.geofex.com/circuits/voltpmp2.gif)
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on December 18, 2008, 06:24:26 PM
Quote from: ech0es on December 18, 2008, 07:14:16 AM
maybe we should add a max1044 to have a -V and +V:

http://www.geofex.com/circuits/+9_to_-9.htm

(http://www.geofex.com/circuits/voltpmp2.gif)

That would work if you can get away with using 9v.
I believe the max1044 can only take 10.0v max on the input
before frying. Looking at the schem we need 15v.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 18, 2008, 06:46:34 PM
according with the TL074 datasheet, it can work at 9v
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on December 18, 2008, 10:51:53 PM
What about using something like this? Same concept as the max1044 just with parts that
everyone should have lying around.
You would have to use a 18v or bigger wall wart to get the necessary volts but
I think it should work and be easy to incorporate into the layout.


(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1843/bipolaruv7.gif)
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: DougH on December 19, 2008, 08:57:21 AM
With some selective DC blocking caps you could make it work off of a 9v supply. You need a divider to create Vref, and well, you should know the drill by now...
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: dschwartz on December 19, 2008, 09:56:29 AM
i´m not sure if using this with line level will work as nice as with the 25W 8Ohm res.

Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 19, 2008, 01:21:45 PM
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/SGSThomsonMicroelectronics/mXvwqq.pdf

18v is the maximum voltage

If you look at the page 5, you'll see that it can work at 9v.

Or use three max 1044:
One for the  -V and the +V, and two more to convert into +/- 15v

(http://www.geofex.com/circuits/+9_to_33.htm)


But, in my opinion it's too complex just for convert the voltage if this circuits works at 9v.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: dschwartz on December 19, 2008, 01:55:03 PM
Quote from: ech0es on December 19, 2008, 01:21:45 PM
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/SGSThomsonMicroelectronics/mXvwqq.pdf

18v is the maximum voltage

If you look at the page 5, you'll see that it can work at 9v.

Or use three max 1044:
One for the  -V and the +V, and two more to convert into +/- 15v

(http://www.geofex.com/circuits/+9_to_33.htm)
Echoes, the issue is not if it can work with 9 volts.. all opamps work at 9 volts or even less.. the issue here is if with miserly 9 volts, this configuration will sound fine, with enough headroom (which is related with the voltage supply)..
i´m pretty sure if you use it connected to the speaker out of an amp, 9V is definetly not enough to handle the wide voltage swings

other thing to consider is that with a 25W resistor, you should not use more than a 25W power amp.. and for more power, you may use several 10W resistors in parallel..
for example, 8 10W, 64 Ohms resistors in parallel are equivalent to an  8 Ohm, 80W resistor..

But, in my opinion it's too complex just for convert the voltage if this circuits works at 9v.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: ech0es on December 19, 2008, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: dschwartz on December 19, 2008, 01:55:03 PM
Echoes, the issue is not if it can work with 9 volts.. all opamps work at 9 volts or even less.. the issue here is if with miserly 9 volts, this configuration will sound fine, with enough headroom (which is related with the voltage supply)..
i´m pretty sure if you use it connected to the speaker out of an amp, 9V is definetly not enough to handle the wide voltage swings

other thing to consider is that with a 25W resistor, you should not use more than a 25W power amp.. and for more power, you may use several 10W resistors in parallel..
for example, 8 10W, 64 Ohms resistors in parallel are equivalent to an  8 Ohm, 80W resistor..

Forget the 25w resistor, i want to be able to plug this circuit to an effect pedal (amp simulator), this resistor is useless.
And we will know if this pedal sounds fine with 9v just by trying it.

The goal of this circuit is not to be plugged to an amp (simulate a V30 and after plugging it to an amp, what is the benefit ?!)
No, the goal is to plug it into a PC, a mixer or a recorder.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: modsquad on December 19, 2008, 03:50:50 PM
So instead of arguing about it...breadboard the darn thing and see if it works.  You can always swap and delete components.   That's what the breadboard is for. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: Yazoo on January 11, 2009, 12:45:26 PM
I've just built the Celestion speaker simulator and it's definitely worth the build. It's nice and clear and there is good separation between the strings. It's running on a 15v bipolar supply as recommended.  I'm using it on the line out from a Marshall 20/20 power amp.

I actually managed to build this from parts I had in stock, probably the only time I've ever managed to do this.  You know how you decide to build something and think "it will only cost a couple of quid" then you end up having to put an order in for just a couple of parts and it finishes up costing £15 by the time you pay postage. The only substitution I made was using a 22 N capacitor instead of the 20 N cap specified. :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on January 11, 2009, 11:50:27 PM
Any chance you have a verified layout you would share?
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: km-r on January 11, 2009, 11:58:12 PM
i will try my hands on a version of a layout...

btw, where did you come accross this circuit? pretty neat design and clips!
id like to read more about this because i want to build a cab sim...
so its quite a dilemma between the marshall xlr out and this...

any info what this simulator is simulating? celestion V30 in what format? 412 212?

no experience with V30, sorry...
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: frank_p on January 12, 2009, 01:07:44 AM

I wonder what is the software he use for the frequency responce to pink noise.  Anybody knows ?
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: km-r on January 12, 2009, 01:51:28 AM
i think he used AUDACITY [of hope]...
isnt that a sound recording/editing software?

i will verify the freq response with simetrix when i get home...
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: Yazoo on January 12, 2009, 04:11:45 PM
This is my stripboard layout for the simulator. My layouts always end up oblong shaped despite me trying to get them as square as possible. I didn't have a 1.5 N capacitor so there is an extra capacitor C10 (470 pf) which is paralleled with a 1N capacitor to get as close as possible to 1.5N. It was done in DIY Layout creator, a really nice program.

(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh99/autochton/Celestion-V30.jpg)
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: km-r on January 12, 2009, 11:51:40 PM
hello guys,

here is a comparison of theV30 simulatorang the marshall xlr output...
with the same number of op-amps, the marshall xlr has higher signal gain [i just scaled it down] and has a sharper freq response.

the V30 was simulated with a 9v supply, 4.5v ground...
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/5/18/1919097/V30%20vs%5B1%5D.%20Marshall.JPG)

green: marshall xlr
red: celestion V30 sim
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: frank_p on January 13, 2009, 12:01:21 AM

Do you see the graph on the forum ?  I can't see it.  I have to "reply" and get the .emf file from there...
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: meffcio on January 17, 2009, 03:28:00 PM
Anyone PCB for +\- 15v?
Not perf-  or stripboard.
Or shall I make one? xp
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: meffcio on March 25, 2009, 02:45:31 PM
Quote from: rnfr on December 17, 2008, 08:36:41 AM
there aleady is a pcb layout for this made by the french guys that designed it.  there is a link to it in the thread in the "other" forum.
Well... this may be funny, but... I still can't find it there...
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on March 25, 2009, 05:03:28 PM
I have an unverified layout, I will post it and the transfer later tonight.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on March 25, 2009, 11:19:10 PM
As stated this layout has not been tested. If you see any mistakes let me know and I will correct them.
Also if you build it please let us know how it works.

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k288/fixr1984/Schematics%20and%20layouts/v30version3.gif)

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k288/fixr1984/Schematics%20and%20layouts/v30pnp31.gif)
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: meffcio on March 26, 2009, 10:22:33 AM
What are the dimmensions of the board?
And btw. - how do you print a board in the correct diameters when you only have a jpg, not pdf version?
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on March 27, 2009, 10:47:58 PM
I believe its 2.5" x 1.5"
I have a weird way of printing my layouts. First I resize the image till its the right size on my screen,
I use a DIP8 socket for comparisson. Then I measure the image on the screen. When printing I print
to the dimension that I just measured. After printing I again use my socket to check spacing and correct
the dimension if necessary. Silly I know but it works for me.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: hubble on March 28, 2009, 12:33:35 AM
that sounds pretty good
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on April 05, 2009, 11:41:27 PM
I am in the process of verifying this layout. I have found one mistake for sure on the layout.
I have to do a quick change and test it out some more. If everything works out I will post the new
layout and transfer.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on November 17, 2010, 12:14:04 PM
I was recently asked for my working layout. Here is the one I used.




(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k288/fixr1984/Schematics%20and%20layouts/v30pnp3final.gif)
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: Top Top on November 17, 2010, 02:26:42 PM
..
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: TurbineX-2000 on November 12, 2011, 03:28:42 PM
Is a 15 volt power supply needed for this device to work properly,or would a 9 volt One Spot power supply work? What pots are needed for this project,and what are the hookup points on the board? Also how are the input and output jacks hooked up? Thanks.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: fixr1984 on April 22, 2012, 10:20:48 PM
You would need a bi polar power supply for this.  There are no pots.  Just connect the input wire to the tip connection of the input jack and the output wire to the tip connection of the output jack.



As a side note has anyone else made this with good results?  I've had this built and sitting on the shelf for quite a while now and finally got around to trying it out.  I plan to give it a try this Thursday thru the band PA to see how it works.  I plan to put it between my pedal board and the mixer and see if it would work in a pinch if I have amp problems at a gig.
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: inkehl on October 10, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
This link appears to be dead http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9830/v30originalkh2.jpg

If anyone has a copy of it or a working link that would be great :D
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: J0K3RX on October 10, 2014, 10:48:26 PM
This is not for this sim, but..

Start at 12th post and read on... Simple Cabsim is awesome!

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106185.0


Can't go wrong with this one either!!
http://guitar-gear.ru/index.php?p=proj&id=59

http://rutube.ru/video/fd5bef825afdd000fa8cfeb8812d38a2/
Title: Re: Celestion V30 simulator
Post by: inkehl on October 11, 2014, 12:40:12 AM
Quote from: J0K3RX on October 10, 2014, 10:48:26 PM
This is not for this sim, but..

Start at 12th post and read on... Simple Cabsim is awesome!

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106185.0


Can't go wrong with this one either!!
http://guitar-gear.ru/index.php?p=proj&id=59

http://rutube.ru/video/fd5bef825afdd000fa8cfeb8812d38a2/

Thanks for that :D