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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: cathexis on January 24, 2009, 04:15:38 AM

Title: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: cathexis on January 24, 2009, 04:15:38 AM
Hi,
There's a new veroboard layout in my gallery: the A/DA Flanger, with Moosapotamus' MN3007 retrofit. See schematic and info at http://moosapotamus.net.
This is a great flanger, and most certainly the bar none nr1 most awesome pedal I've ever built! The SAD1024 chips seem all but impossible to find these days, so many thanks to Charlie who made this possible!

It's a complicated build, to say the least. I was real careful while making the board and populating it, quintuple-checking everything, and mine worked right away. It's also a gigantic board. There's a PCB around that you could buy instead of going the vero way, and I hope and suspect that you will. This post is mostly a show-off thing, really.

I've learned more building this pedal than ever before, especially during the calibration procedure. A scope and a frequency counter sure made things easier, but I can see how you could do it by ear as well, just takes more work. I got mine to sweep the specified range of 35kHz-1.3MHz. I tried subbing 074:s for the 3403:s, and it worked OK, but I got a noticeable loss of volume when the pedal was engaged. This can be helped by lowering the value of R41 and R42 to 33K. In the end I put in a pair of 3403:s. The 074:s seemed a bit cleaner, maybe. I tried a 2N5457 for Q1, then a J201, both worked fine.

I couldn't find a clean 18VDC supply, and dual batteries seemed to run out fast, so I added a diode bridge and a couple of filtering caps to my board, and used an 18VAC supply instead, which worked fine, see this earlier post:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=73467.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=73467.0)

There are several sound clips in my gallery, showing off the A/DA:s muscles. You can hear a slight chirp in some of them as the clock goes low, I've fixed that since. This flanger is by far the quietest one I've ever played.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed Charlie will make a similar retrofit for the Electric Mistress!

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/cathexis/ (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/cathexis/)


LARS
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: shadowmaster on January 24, 2009, 06:41:49 AM
This is bad ass!

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: StephenGiles on January 24, 2009, 07:36:55 AM
I have a bad headache this morning  - could you please give a direct link to your vero layout so I can inspect your "work of art"!!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: cathexis on January 24, 2009, 07:59:31 AM
Quote from: StephenGiles on January 24, 2009, 07:36:55 AM
I have a bad headache this morning  - could you please give a direct link to your vero layout so I can inspect your "work of art"!!

Cup of coffee and a Tylenol would be better - this "work of art" might aggravate the problem! :)
Working on this project, I learned a lot from your postings of vero adventures with the same circuit, Stephen. Thanks!
Here's the link:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/cathexis/Veroboard+Layouts/ADA+Flanger/

LARS
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: John Lyons on January 24, 2009, 12:36:09 PM
Insane!  :icon_eek:
Hat's off to you for veroing this bad boy.

john



Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: frank_p on January 24, 2009, 12:55:50 PM

(http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/wha.gif)

:P

Completely crazy...
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: moosapotamus on January 24, 2009, 01:38:38 PM
Awesome! :o 8)
Excellent work, lars! Great sounding clips, too. Dig the drum track. Do you mind if I link to them from my web page?
Also curious, how did you decide where to set the trim pot on the 3007? By ear? Before or after setting the sweep range? Or...?

Thanks
~ Charlie
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: cathexis on January 24, 2009, 02:25:35 PM
Quote from: moosapotamus on January 24, 2009, 01:38:38 PM
Great sounding clips, too. Dig the drum track. Do you mind if I link to them from my web page?
Also curious, how did you decide where to set the trim pot on the 3007? By ear? Before or after setting the sweep range? Or...?

Charlie!
Link away, I'd be proud! I really haven't decided on how to set that trimpot. I was looking at the output of the trim on the scope, and tried to find the most symmetrical-looking output, but I'd like to poke around some more. There are a few different suggestions in the two versions of the bench test procedures and in that 40 page TZF thread here, and I haven't tried them all. It sounds good about 30% of the travel around the midpoint on mine, though.  Again, thank you for doing the 3007 retrofit - I had so much fun with this! How about the Electric Mistress? Would that be possible?
LARS
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: moosapotamus on January 24, 2009, 02:40:04 PM
Cool, lars. But oldschoolanalog is really the one to thank for the 3007 retrofit. He did all the hard work and testing. I just confirmed his work and modified the PCB layout accordingly.

I just took a quick glance at the EM. Compared to the ADA there are a few differences in the way the BBD interfaces with the clock circuit, but they seem pretty minor. I don't see why oldschoolanalog's 3007 retrofit wouldn't work in that circuit, too. And then maybe markusw's TZF mod for the EM could be done with a 3007, too.

Thanks
~ Charlie
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: oldschoolanalog on January 24, 2009, 02:48:11 PM
Quote from: moosapotamus on January 24, 2009, 02:40:04 PM
I don't see why oldschoolanalog's 3007 retrofit wouldn't work in that circuit, too.
Should work. However, this will have to be somebody elses baby. I don't have a EM/DEM to test this on.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: StephenGiles on January 24, 2009, 03:45:43 PM
Excellent, it sounds just as it should. The vero layout is indeed a work of art and deserves to be framed and hung somewhere prominent!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: Processaurus on January 24, 2009, 05:30:37 PM
"Not exactly a lightweight, dude."  Great contribution!

If people building it know photoshop or a similar program, it's easy to make a PCB silkscreen-like sticker (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=47890.0) to put on the veroboard from the layout.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: oldschoolanalog on January 24, 2009, 06:48:50 PM
Quote from: StephenGiles on January 24, 2009, 03:45:43 PM
The vero layout is indeed a work of art and deserves to be framed and hung somewhere prominent!
+1 on that!  ;D
BTW, the size of the layout can be reduced greatly by perfing it; as opposed to vero ;).
Dave
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: cathexis on January 25, 2009, 02:36:30 PM
Quote from: oldschoolanalog on January 24, 2009, 02:48:11 PM
Quote from: moosapotamus on January 24, 2009, 02:40:04 PM
I don't see why oldschoolanalog's 3007 retrofit wouldn't work in that circuit, too.
Should work.

If you guys say so, I'd be willing to give it a try - I'll start comparing schematics. Guess I got the flanger bug...
Thanks to everybody for the kind feedback!
LARS
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: Auke Haarsma on January 25, 2009, 05:29:35 PM
Incredible! Great sounding effect.

Also, thanks for the samples. Really liked listening to them!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: cathexis on January 30, 2009, 02:12:32 PM
I haven't nagged about anything before, I think. I don't plan on doing it much in the future. I'll bump this post once, though, in case someone missed it. This pedal parks some serious footwear in that proverbial posterior. I am infatuated. Weeks have passed now, and I still spend a friday night with this pedal and a glass of wine. If I had a rug and a log fire, things would be perfect.

Consider this one for your collection. Believe the hype.

;D

LARS
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: oldschoolanalog on January 30, 2009, 04:08:39 PM
Yes. Believe the hype 8).
BTW; if you think one sounds good. Try 2 in parallel into separate amps.
Be afraid. Be very afraid :icon_twisted:.

Dave
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: quarara on January 30, 2009, 05:49:08 PM
I believed the hype so much that I dared to post here for the first time after a couple of months lurking. Unfortunately I can't built it the near future, but my heart bumps everytime I think about this flanger... *sighs*
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: mdh on January 30, 2009, 07:29:13 PM
I'm counting the days until I get my PCB from Charlie.  Oh, and Dave, it's not like you haven't done enough for us lately, but did you ever compile your BBD retrofit information for public consumption?  I have an old DOD flanger with a bad SAD512D (at least I think it's bad), and would like to try my hand at reviving it with a BBD I can actually get my hands on.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: oldschoolanalog on January 30, 2009, 09:50:45 PM
Quote from: mdh on January 30, 2009, 07:29:13 PM
...but did you ever compile your BBD retrofit information for public consumption?
I'm working on it. Sorry it's taking so long :icon_redface:. Family life and all that. Also, I want to test each retrofit before posting anything.
I don't want to post anything that's not verified working. First up is the MXR 117 flanger (I have a bunch of them ;)). Then I guess I'll build an EM (I don't own one. Yet.) and work on that. That seems to be the object of most folks interest.
Quote
I have an old DOD flanger with a bad SAD512D (at least I think it's bad), and would like to try my hand at reviving it with a BBD I can actually get my hands on.
IIRC, there is a bunch of info somewhere here (use "search") on replacing the SAD512D with an R5106.
OK. Found some good info...
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=30056.0
And... (check out reply #10)
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=41281.0
Check this out before doing anything.
Hope some of this helps.

Dave
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: tehfunk on January 31, 2009, 03:09:14 AM
That's amazing, good work! also, how do you host the files on here with that cool program that plays the files?
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: cathexis on January 31, 2009, 10:15:54 AM
Quote from: tehfunk on January 31, 2009, 03:09:14 AM
That's amazing, good work! also, how do you host the files on here with that cool program that plays the files?

Thanks! You get an account in the layouts gallery by PM:ing Aron.
LARS
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: edd29 on May 19, 2009, 10:31:26 AM
 I just finished the vero layout and really like it, I set all the trimmer
by ear I post the video if I have the time coz I'm at work at the moment.
thanks to all of you for making this great pedal.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: mharris80 on May 19, 2009, 12:12:23 PM
Egads, man.  That's insane!  Great work.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: cathexis on May 19, 2009, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: edd29 on May 19, 2009, 10:31:26 AM
I just finished the vero layout and really like it, I set all the trimmer
by ear I post the video if I have the time coz I'm at work at the moment.
thanks to all of you for making this great pedal.

Thanks to YOU for trusting this crazy layout - very brave! I didn't think anyone would ever attempt it.
LARS
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: Scruffie on May 19, 2009, 02:53:56 PM
Wow that is impressive, if I had the cash i'd certainly try and have a go at it and now it's been verified by Cathexis and yourself even more insentive that it can be done. Gunna try the Slow Gear layout and the CE-2 Chorus layout first though, seeing as I couldn't find a zombie chorus vero and read bad things about its noise and ticking.

Thanks for doing the layouts no one else would try LARS!

Scruffie.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: edd29 on May 19, 2009, 04:07:58 PM
can anyone tell how to upload image   here
coz i want to upload my vero layout, I'm quite new here THANKS! :icon_smile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOTlfch8zAo&feature=channel_page

Any suggestion About the flange so I can I just my settings. I Dint  know
how to use scope so I just set by my ear.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: The French connection on May 19, 2009, 04:30:47 PM
Welcome!
Just click on (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/Themes/diytheme/images/bbc/img.gif) and insert your picture adress between the bracket. Just quote me and you'll see an example in the reply window...

Dan
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: edd29 on May 19, 2009, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: cathexis on May 19, 2009, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: edd29 on May 19, 2009, 10:31:26 AM
I just finished the vero layout and really like it, I set all the trimmer
by ear I post the video if I have the time coz I'm at work at the moment.
thanks to all of you for making this great pedal.

Thanks to YOU for trusting this crazy layout - very brave! I didn't think anyone would ever attempt it.
LARS

I did Check all connections and jumpers before I start
with the guidance of schematic and everything looks so fine  
so I trust this layout is working. but i did some modification suggested by Bajaman.
Id like to post some pictures  but I dint know how.
THANKS AGAIN! cathexis . this my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOTlfch8zAo&feature=channel_page
Any suggestion will be Great.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: txomin on May 19, 2009, 06:44:12 PM
Quote from: edd29 on May 19, 2009, 10:31:26 AM
I just finished the vero layout and really like it, I set all the trimmer
by ear I post the video if I have the time coz I'm at work at the moment.
thanks to all of you for making this great pedal.

it's possible you explain the way  are you used for adjusting the trimmers by ear, it's  hard to do for me :icon_redface:

sorry for my bad english.

P.D. the vero it's a very impressive work, thanks cathexis.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: edd29 on May 20, 2009, 12:19:28 PM
Quote from: The French connection on May 19, 2009, 04:30:47 PM
Welcome!
Just click on (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/Themes/diytheme/images/bbc/img.gif) and insert your picture adress between the bracket. Just quote me and you'll see an example in the reply window...

I try. THanks for your help!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: edd29 on May 20, 2009, 12:31:46 PM
Quote from: edd29 on May 20, 2009, 12:19:28 PM
Quote from: The French connection on May 19, 2009, 04:30:47 PM
Welcome!
Just click on (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/Themes/diytheme/images/bbc/img.gif) and insert your picture adress between the bracket. Just quote me and you'll see an example in the reply window...

I try. THanks for your help!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: edd29 on May 20, 2009, 12:39:44 PM
Quote from: edd29 on May 20, 2009, 12:31:46 PM
Quote from: edd29 on May 20, 2009, 12:19:28 PM
Quote from: The French connection on May 19, 2009, 04:30:47 PM
Welcome!
Just click on (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/Themes/diytheme/images/bbc/img.gif) and insert your picture adress between the bracket. Just quote me and you'll see an example in the reply window...

I try. THanks for your help!
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5047/img4289.jpg)
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: quarara on May 20, 2009, 02:21:31 PM
amazing! what is that little pcb at the top? a charge pump, maybe?
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: edd29 on May 20, 2009, 05:16:38 PM
yes that is a charge pump. coz I dint have 18v supply and 15v IC so
  I try to use 9 volt dc with a charge pump and series resistors 47 ohms and works fine.
Watch my Video so you can hear the sounds.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: StephenGiles on May 20, 2009, 05:33:12 PM
Excellent video and sounds, chords are best for a flanger demo.........not the silly show off lead runs on some youtube flanger demos!!!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: edd29 on May 20, 2009, 06:37:24 PM
Quote from: StephenGiles on May 20, 2009, 05:33:12 PM
Excellent video and sounds, chords are best for a flanger demo.........not the silly show off lead runs on some youtube flanger demos!!!

Thank you Sir stephen.
I dint know if I'm doing the right settings.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: quarara on May 21, 2009, 03:32:04 AM
Quote from: edd29 on May 20, 2009, 06:37:24 PM
Quote from: StephenGiles on May 20, 2009, 05:33:12 PM
Excellent video and sounds, chords are best for a flanger demo.........not the silly show off lead runs on some youtube flanger demos!!!

Thank you Sir stephen.
I dint know if I'm doing the right settings.
if it sounds good, they're right! ;)
however, that charge pump idea is something really interesting, since I don't have a 18vdc psu and I don't want to buy one, if possible. thanks for the idea!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: quarara on November 18, 2009, 02:46:42 AM
Hi,
what size of box do you suggest me to use for this project?

Thanks!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: StephenGiles on November 18, 2009, 05:20:36 AM
Quote from: quarara on November 18, 2009, 02:46:42 AM
Hi,
what size of box do you suggest me to use for this project?

Thanks!

Perhaps one that the board fits into plus some extra space for mods yet to be designed - I always regard the ADA Flanger as an ongoing project. It's good for a rackmount container.

My first vero build of this was on the largest size board available to allow plenty of space, both for error finding and for possible add-ons. It actually sits on a pile of papers on top of my Carvin X60 amp. I blow the dust off every few weeks!

I then used the general pattern of how I connected up the components to build a second version on the smallest possible board, the size is recorded here somewhere, and put that in an old EH 5 knob box.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: Stompin Tom on November 18, 2009, 11:03:38 AM
Wow. Missed this the first two times around. Very impressive vero-ing, cathexis! I'm shocked you had the patience and dedication to vero such complicated circuits (looking at your gallery). Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: cathexis on November 19, 2009, 02:49:30 PM
Thank you! This is still my most satisfying build. Without it I probably never would have gotten around to buying an oscilloscope, and I learned a lot in the process. Success with a project of this size gives you lots of hair on your chest :)
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: quarara on December 13, 2009, 03:38:33 AM
I'm just posting to say that in this layout the pot for threshold control is wired backwards. honestly I don't really care about it, since I think it's more "logical" this way, but you know, maybe for the purists it's important :P
Since I'm here, I'd like to say thanks to cathexis for this wonderful job. I fired the flanger up and I can hear the bbd working. I have to calibrate it properly, but I can't do it by ear, hope to use a 'scope next week.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: StephenGiles on December 13, 2009, 01:07:30 PM
Quote from: quarara on December 13, 2009, 03:38:33 AM
I'm just posting to say that in this layout the pot for threshold control is wired backwards. honestly I don't really care about it, since I think it's more "logical" this way, but you know, maybe for the purists it's important :P
Since I'm here, I'd like to say thanks to cathexis for this wonderful job. I fired the flanger up and I can hear the bbd working. I have to calibrate it properly, but I can't do it by ear, hope to use a 'scope next week.

A properly calibrated ADA is one which sounds good to you - so I believe that it's better to set up by ear.
Title: Re: New vero layout: the A/DA Flanger
Post by: quarara on December 14, 2009, 04:31:20 AM
Quote from: StephenGiles on December 13, 2009, 01:07:30 PM
A properly calibrated ADA is one which sounds good to you - so I believe that it's better to set up by ear.

Thanks for your words, but maybe my ears are as not as good as yours. I haven't be able so far to dial with the trimpots in a way the true sound of A/DA could be heard.