If this is your first attempt at building a pedal. DON'T build a fuzz face, speaking from experience here. Or you can, but you're in for a challenge!
I definitely would have gone for a booster or simple distortion, if i knew the hours of pain I'd be putting myself through ;)
Just wanted to give some good advice :P
Or a fuzz factory. It seems like half of the troubleshooting threads we get are about them. :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: MrTonesNZ on August 18, 2011, 10:14:46 AM
If this is your first attempt at building a pedal. DON'T build a fuzz face, speaking from experience here. Or you can, but you're in for a challenge!
I definitely would have gone for a booster or simple distortion, if i knew the hours of pain I'd be putting myself through ;)
Just wanted to give some good advice :P
You would think that such a simple little circuit would be a breeze. I still have nightmares troubleshooting my first few attempts. I've been building since we had to carve our own transistors out of wood and getting a good sounding FF is still a challenge. :icon_razz:
On the plus side you're a whiz-bang at troubleshooting now...
I definitely agree about the FF. I didn't touch that circuit until I had folded a thousand paper bazz fusses. I had to hit that point of enlightenment, first. Lol.
I was curious... what's the issue(s)?
I started with a ready made PCB kit first. Just to learn about the different components, soldering, etc. All the parts and instructions provided, so all I had to worry about was putting things in the right place, and soldering tidy. As I felt more comfortable, I moved on from there, i.e. order just the board, and shop for my own parts. Then, I got into vero, and transcribing schematics.
Always baby steps.
Fuzz Face is like a hand grenade... with the pin pulled... and a faulty detonater... in your pocket. When they work that's fine, but when they don't, well, they can be rather difficult to disarm. :icon_lol:
I'm greedy, so I started off with what I called a "Multi Fuzz". It's a LPB-1 (with switchable back-to-back 1N4148s at the output for boomy overdrive) into a Green Ringer ineto two Bazz Fusses (the first one with a Si diode and a 3904 for a sputtier, grainier sound; the second one with a Ge diode and a 5088 for a smoother, more compressed thing). Or maybe it was a different order, anyways. I merged the LPB and the Green Ringer layouts from Tonepad, along with a Bazz Fuss one of my own (copy/paste in MS Paint...). As I always check things much more often than necessary, everything worked properly right away--to my amazement, as I was sure to screw it up...
Quote from: Gordo on August 18, 2011, 11:13:17 AM
On the plus side you're a whiz-bang at troubleshooting now...
Yea, i plan to build a super hard on next, or some kind of mosfet booster. Bet it'l take me like 10mins lol
Quote from: familyortiz on August 18, 2011, 12:09:23 PM
I was curious... what's the issue(s)?
See my other thread:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=93216.0
I'm )( <this close to getting it right i think
Quote from: asatbluesboy on August 18, 2011, 01:02:30 PM
I'm greedy, so I started off with what I called a "Multi Fuzz". It's a LPB-1 (with switchable back-to-back 1N4148s at the output for boomy overdrive) into a Green Ringer ineto two Bazz Fusses (the first one with a Si diode and a 3904 for a sputtier, grainier sound; the second one with a Ge diode and a 5088 for a smoother, more compressed thing). Or maybe it was a different order, anyways. I merged the LPB and the Green Ringer layouts from Tonepad, along with a Bazz Fuss one of my own (copy/paste in MS Paint...). As I always check things much more often than necessary, everything worked properly right away--to my amazement, as I was sure to screw it up...
Yea well you dont count :P. You mustve had some electronics experience before hand right? My only prior electronics experience is curcuit bending a few kids toys
Hang in there guys. Whatever you build the first time can be hard if your not an electronics guy like I was. This place is a great help. Be sure and use sockets for your transistors/op amps, or parts you may want to modify or that are easily over heated.
SHO's are cool (especially 3 in a row) but Mosfets are sensitive to static and will blow up/quit on you. Definitely a summer project because of less static electricity.
Bread boards are really nice once you get them figured out. You can build all kinds of stuff, modify it, tear if apart and start all over. ;)
Agreed. FF is finiky. Scrap the fuzz face and build a DOD250 or MXR Dist+ as your first. You'll find it way more useful anyway, as well as more customizable to your needs.
:D
The fuzz face was my fourth or fifth and most troublesome build!
I eventually just replaced every component with fresh ones and I think that did the trick. Nice to see I'm not alone.
Rangemaster was the first time i attempted to understand a circuit, and it was great for that purpose.
Octavia was my actual first pedal, but that was strictly a paint-by-numbers kit. I've since fixed, rebuilt it, and now understand the circuit.
Si FF was my third, i think. It was tricky, but worth it.
Two suggestions to beginners for avoiding FFF (Failed Fuzz Face) syndrome:
--BREADBOARD before you commit to solder:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/BreadboardSiFF/BreadboardSiFF.htm
This way you will get to know the circuit and hear it work. The walk-through makes it almost impossible to screw up, and easy to see mistakes. The process of setting this way will make you sensitive to just how easy it is to make One error that results in a build that doesn't work.
--Try doing it in silicon first. The devices are cheap, readily available and not temperamental. Changing to carefully selected and matched germanium if you want is then easy.
Regards
SD
its always the 'look simple' circuits that can really kick ya butt.....
boogies/echo base/rebote....no problems..no debugging.....but those 'easy' ones..arghhhhh....i think its the ' i can quickly knock this up factor ' that makes it more frustrating........ ::)
Couple of people mentioned breadboards and sockets. Think i'll invest in a breadboard. But because of my fail's on attempts 1 and 2, i socketed EVERYTHING this time. Good decision i say 8)
Only 1 way is 'right' then mod from there...
We're still counting the ways that it can be wrong.
Quote from: CynicalMan on August 18, 2011, 11:00:39 AM
Or a fuzz factory. It seems like half of the troubleshooting threads we get are about them. :icon_rolleyes:
Pressing the "like" button right now...
Quote from: smallbearelec on August 18, 2011, 02:50:45 PM
--Try doing it in silicon first.
...and let me add to that. Try doing an npn silicon first. Many of the troubleshooting posts concerned either biasing germaniums or confusions with positive ground.
On a side note, if you already have the FF on the breadboard and can't get a good sound, you can make a couple small changes and get a loud brutal fuzz without much hassle. Though, lower gain (< 70) transistors are recommended.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=92714.0
schematic:
http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/fuzzface-fy2-mod.jpg
I was not too happy when I first read this as I thought it was kind of rude. Now that I think about it, you're right.
It's good advice. ;D
i have heard from dozens of guys over the last ten years that built the easyface with no probs. it's possible the number of builds is in the thousands> it basically solves all the beginner FF probs with the hybrid tech and one trimpot to bias. it is fun, people with no multimeter have even built good sounding ones with no prob.
I find myself playing a balancing act with the 2 collector resistors. I had notes on it at one point, but I used NTE158's in my friend's FF without measuring leakage, and it worked great after the aforementioned tweaking. I was shooting for (about room temp) 4.5 at Q2's collector and .5-.6 at Q1's base. I cannot for the life of me remember why I came to that conclusion, but that's what I shoot for now with all my FF's. A bonus came with lowering the resistors in my buddy's box... it shaved some of the shrillness out of the higher gains... totally smooth, even through SS.
But every one is a tweaking game for me now, and trying to remember what I had figured out the last time. Simple circuit, my @$$!!! Like I said, Bazz Fuss never gave me a problem, so I used that to stick every transistor and diode into. My breadboard is like a BF whore. :icon_lol:
Quote from: ayayay! on August 18, 2011, 04:58:49 PM
I was not too happy when I first read this as I thought it was kind of rude. Now that I think about it, you're right.
It's good advice. ;D
Thank's John, didn't mean to be rude, i'm being genuine. FF is not for the faint hearted!
I think whenever someone finishes there first Fuzz Face, they should get some kind of award :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: MrTonesNZ on August 18, 2011, 11:27:17 PM
I think whenever someone finishes there first Fuzz Face, they should get some kind of award :icon_mrgreen:
They do... they get their first Fuzz Face! ;D
And hella bragging rights!
Quote from: Earthscum on August 19, 2011, 12:10:29 AM
Quote from: MrTonesNZ on August 18, 2011, 11:27:17 PM
I think whenever someone finishes there first Fuzz Face, they should get some kind of award :icon_mrgreen:
They do... they get their first Fuzz Face! ;D
And hella bragging rights!
Well yea i was kind of thinking that, but a cash prize wouldn't hurt :D
my first build was the magnus modulus delay
i just recently got into distortions and really wanna try a germanium distortion. apparently thats a bad idea tho
Good advice.
That's not to say, "Don't do it" - if you never try, you never achieve - but for such a simple circuit, there's so much going on.
I'd heartily recommend the GEOFX 'Technology of...' article before building - it's not a long-winded "text-book" chapter either, just clear, concise information about what's going on.
The fewer components in the build, the more critical each component becomes.
For anyone wanting to 'Fuzz up' their tone, I'd say go for NPN Silicon transistors and negative ground.
I think worst of all... it starts the hunt for ellusive germanium transistors and that 'tone'... and it wont end.
for new builders: check the Beginner Project http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?board=6.0
everything is thoroughly explained and all questions already asked and it sounds good
will help you a lot with your next builds
first one I started was a son of screamer, but the board never got drilled and it sat in a box for 7 years.
First completed was a Silicon NPN FF, sounds ok. I did read the tech of.. doc carefully before i switched on the iron though, and I too have travelled the long road of transistor acquisition, late nights trawling ebay and those russian Ge's in 50 lots. the collection grows, the fuzzs get better, but the 7th 8th... ones caused me more pain than the first few.
love it when you don't earth a FF and you cant figure out why the bias won't work, then you spend 15-20 mins wigging out with the fuzz control and the volumes on the gat.... or is that just me????
Quote from: snarblinge on August 19, 2011, 07:21:38 AM
first one I started was a son of screamer, but the board never got drilled and it sat in a box for 7 years.
First completed was a Silicon NPN FF, sounds ok. I did read the tech of.. doc carefully before i switched on the iron though, and I too have travelled the long road of transistor acquisition, late nights trawling ebay and those russian Ge's in 50 lots. the collection grows, the fuzzs get better, but the 7th 8th... ones caused me more pain than the first few.
love it when you don't earth a FF and you cant figure out why the bias won't work, then you spend 15-20 mins wigging out with the fuzz control and the volumes on the gat.... or is that just me????
Thing that gets me is i do it all the time. Like tonight i tried to show my partner, "look what i made!".... "Oh sounds like s***." Bias pot wasn't plugged in.... :icon_redface:
I've built the Roger Mayer Classic Fuzz Face (IvIark Tagboard) like ten times and never had a problem.
NPN, PNP, Germanium & Silicon versions.
I just leave a working circuit on my bread board and plug in new transistors
and sometimes different input and out caps till I think it sounds good, then build one.
easy peasey.
Quote from: Paul Marossy on August 18, 2011, 03:27:25 PM
Quote from: CynicalMan on August 18, 2011, 11:00:39 AM
Or a fuzz factory. It seems like half of the troubleshooting threads we get are about them. :icon_rolleyes:
Pressing the "like" button right now...
F'reals. Can super-like-love this?
Quote from: MrTonesNZ on August 18, 2011, 01:41:53 PMYea well you dont count :P. You mustve had some electronics experience before hand right? My only prior electronics experience is curcuit bending a few kids toys
As a matter of fact, I'd just done some mods (ok, maybe a few too many) to my Small Clone. I've got this crazy "building up" thing; I read a lot about something for
months before I ever attempt doing it.
Yeah, Ive got a pretty large breadboard and use it frequently for my arduino. Good stuff, I tell you.
One of my first builds was the Multiface. I used a larger than required piece of perfboard and socketed almost every componet to allow me to 'explore' what was going on with the circut. Much like Joe's suggestion this build let me understand what each of the componets brought to the circut and what happened when I messed about with different values. Using my multimeter at various points helped alot with learning that tool as well.
From there I went on to explore the delicious world of germanium.
Ask yourself:
'How exactly will this device help empower me to make music that I'd want to listen to?'
Everything else will fall into place, especially if you get good at breadboarding schematics.