(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/LiberalKomradE.gif)
basically a dunlop jh2, but pnp and with ge transistors. works really well, much more big-muffish than fuzz faceish imho....
here's a video demo on youtube with the colorsound vocalizer me and dino cloned:
I might redraw this as a schematic so I can look at it. I have some MN16b that are all between Hfe 40 and 100. I wonder how different they are from the MP16b. they are both russian PNP germanium. my MN16b have way to much bass and generally too muddy in a fuzz face. I pulled Q2 out and put some random japanese germanium pnp Hfe85. sounded way better. its hard to add a high pass filter on a fuzz face without screwing up the sound. or maybe I just dont know what I am doing.
???
There are NO Russian "MN16b" transistors at all.
None of the Russian (Soviet) trannies have the "MN" prefix.
Quote from: DDD on August 19, 2011, 03:04:56 AM
???
There are NO Russian "MN16b" transistors at all.
None of the Russian (Soviet) trannies have the "MN" prefix.
he wrote MP16b once and prob wrote MN16b accidentally twice
the batch i got i got on evil bay, i got 50 of 'em for 11 bux shipped. i went thru all of them, and the Hfe was between 74 and i think 135 at the highest...average was around 100 or so.
they DO have plenty of ass, which may be why the fuzz has so much cream to it. to me, it sounds more like a muff than a face. but it cleans up great with the guitar volume.
like i said, it's basically a dunlop jh2 fuzz with the polarity reversed to a positive ground circuit, mp16b ge's instead of the mpsa18's that were supposed to be there, and a GE diode clipper at the end. no real need to draw up a schematic, just use the one R.G. drew up at geo and ya should be good to go.
i socketed the transistors caps and zener, so i could convert between pnp and npn...out of the various combinations i tried of silicon and ge npn's and pnp's, to my ear this was the best sounding combination.
thanks for checking it out, if ya build it, let me know please!
peace
jimi
Quote from: LucifersTrip on August 19, 2011, 05:07:34 AM
Quote from: DDD on August 19, 2011, 03:04:56 AM
???
There are NO Russian "MN16b" transistors at all.
None of the Russian (Soviet) trannies have the "MN" prefix.
he wrote MP16b once and prob wrote MN16b accidentally twice
I meant:
he wrote MP16b once and prob wrote MN16n accidentally twice
it's great the average was around 100. many of the Russian ones are on the lower side of the listed gains
Your fuzz does have a cool, rich sound. Did you actually ever use it with the amp on a totally clean setting?
yah, i've used it with my fenders, and with my marshall, and it sounds nice and fat and punchy dirty or clean. i'm kinda impressed by it, i like it almost as much as my fuzz face, and am considering replacing my big muff with it as it sounds similar to the way i set the muff.
i never play super clean generally, if i do it's most likely thru a fuzz with the guitar turned down. the video was mostly all about the vocalizer, so i didn't dick around with the lk fuzz too much...that was just both knobs pegged into a totally digital behringer amp set like a cranked up fender.
i believe the actual Hfe of the two transistors was around 113 or so...i just kept plugging 'em in until i liked the sound, but the first transistor was one of a pair i had matched for gain. the other was just random, twisted the trimmer til it sounded good to me. no idea what the actual gain was.
if ya want, over the weekend when i get a chance, i can do a lk fuzz only demo to show off the sounds. it's really responsive to guitar volume/dynamics like a good ff should be, but to me, doesn't sound like one...maybe i shoulda called it the big muff face...err...glazed donut? lol.. :icon_mrgreen:
Hi jimi, I finally ordered some MP16B and 1N34 to give this a go! Breadboard first, as usual.
I was checking out the vero layout, there seems to be a couple minor problems. The blue wire from P11 goes to row i but doesn't actually connect to anything. The strip between f9and f10 needs to be cut, and the ends of R4 and C4 don't seem to be connected to Q2's emitter (f10).
Great clip, keep up the good work! After hearing your wah, I got inspired to have a go at modding my colorsound clone with an ehx bassballs type circuit. I'll let you know how it goes. Early results are very encouraging. Hey, here's a schem, (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa160/birdy81260/LiberalComrade.gif) to go with the layout... :icon_mrgreen:
ooops. my bad!! sorry!! that should connect to G 17...2 rows up....then the blue wire connects to the 68k/47pf cathode of the 2nd transistor. will fix that and the rest later bro...sorry!! ;)
thanks for the schematic! I have all the parts and I'm ready for the breadboard 8)
don't eat it yet, eatyourguitar, let me fix it first!! lol
Ok, ill wait. I was gonna build it without the power filtering and polarity protection. I dont really need the zener do I?
here ya go, the corrected layout...thanks so much to ronan not only for catching the couple bugs in the original, but also for making a schematic of it for folks~
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/LiberalKomradE-2.gif)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa160/birdy81260/LiberalComrade.gif)
beware tho, that if you use mpsa18's, you need to reverse all the electro caps, battery, and the zener diode!
if you want, make it like i did, socket the transistors, caps and zener so you can add pretty much any transistor you want, either pnp or npn.
have fun, and again, thanks to ronan~
:icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: EATyourGuitar on August 22, 2011, 01:27:33 PM
Ok, ill wait. I was gonna build it without the power filtering and polarity protection. I dont really need the zener do I?
if ya wanna run it from a wart, i'd add the cap and zener, but if you're gonna just run it with a battery you should be fine, bro.
let me know how it comes out! ;)
Hi jimi, me again, come to annoy you again ;) There's just one more little bug in there. There needs to be a spot where Q2's emitter joins up with R4, C4, C6 and the top of the 1K pot. At the moment the Q2 emitter is only hooking up with C6. So I took the liberty, hope ya don't mind, of modifying the layout with MS Paint, since a pic is worth a thousand words. (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa160/birdy81260/LiberalComradevero2.png) I also moved Q2, R5 and C5 across to the right one space so there's room for a standard trace cut at f10. I might have to order some MPSA18's too, one can never have enough trannies and spare parts lying around. :D
awesome brother, thanks. looks good! ;)
bump. I'm going to build one of these today but I have some questions.
1) why is R1 in series to the power supply when on a FF it is in series with your VR1? it probably makes no difference but I was wondering if you had a reason for doing that or is it random?
2) R2 100R seems like it serves no purpose with the minimum impedance of C1 at audio rates being a lot more than 100R. without R2 it should be fine. or is there a real reason for that 100R?
3) can I remove C2 to make the pedal a little brighter? was C2 part of a RC filter with R2?
thanks Mr Photon!
if i remember, r1 is in series to help reduce hash and noise... the mp16b's can be a bit hissy with a lot of background crackle. this was an early attempt at making that stuff stop.
c2 and r1 were there for pretty much the same reason, to bleed some of the noise off to ground. can probably be eliminated, or you can always socket and experiment if ya wanted to.
bleeds off a little of the high frequency noise to ground i think.
back then, i used to try and just adapt other designs, so it could be completely superfluous.
i don't even own the pedal any more, so you guess is as good as mine.
i'd suggest building it and leaving out those two resistors and c2, and see how it sounds. or maybe leave out r1 and c2 and try it. they can be added back in if ya think it's necessary i guess.
sorry i'm not more help! ;)
470R in series with power to reduce noise is something we do in synth modules. lots of people that were using ferrite beads switched to 47R resistors instead. I will leave it in. R2 and C2 low pass filter can be moved to before the input cap where R2 actually does something. I will try something like 1k and 560pf. another option would be to put a VR 100k before C1 to go with that 560pf C2. I have had good results in the past on a FF with an input VR but this time it serves double duty as a real 8khz low pass when you get closer to 100k + 560pf.
thanks again, I will post my results when I'm done.
luv ya , jimmy, but would never build or use a pedal with this name.
Quote from: EATyourGuitar on March 14, 2013, 12:13:58 PM
470R in series with power to reduce noise is something we do in synth modules. lots of people that were using ferrite beads switched to 47R resistors instead. I will leave it in. R2 and C2 low pass filter can be moved to before the input cap where R2 actually does something. I will try something like 1k and 560pf. another option would be to put a VR 100k before C1 to go with that 560pf C2. I have had good results in the past on a FF with an input VR but this time it serves double duty as a real 8khz low pass when you get closer to 100k + 560pf.
thanks again, I will post my results when I'm done.
all good bro, hope it works well for ya!
i can send ya some mp16b's if ya want. ;)
Quote from: joegagan on March 14, 2013, 12:16:59 PM
luv ya , jimmy, but would never build or use a pedal with this name.
well, it was either that or socialist bastard. ;)
pretty simple explanation...
what do ya call a fuzzface with commie trannies in it? socialist? no... LIBERAL, completely abusing the connection between liberalism and socialism, which contrary to some folk's beliefs are NOT the same thing.
to me, much like sunny side up eggs on acid, fuzzfaces appear to smile at you.
who has a friendly face? your friends. what's a russian friend? a komrade. with the k backwards. done deal.
nice fuzz. sounds great, cleans up well. gave it to my bro mark before he went on tour a few months ago in europe. he loves it.
you, of course, are free to call it whatever ya want, joe. ;)
may i suggest commie face? lol
ps. if it was a conservative face, it wouldn't be friendly, and most likely wouldn't sound too good. :icon_twisted:
EDIT: I TOTALLY SCREWED THIS VERO UP, SO I'M PULLING IT BEFORE SOMEBODY WASTES A BUNCH OF TIME... IF I FIGURE IT OUT, I WILL REPOST,
SORRY FOR THE SCREW UP!! :icon_eek: :icon_redface:
SO....
my brother's studio burned to the ground the other night, total loss...everything gone, pa, recording stuff, ... a bloody nightmare.
he really liked the liberal komrade, so i had given it to him.
it was in the barn when it went up.
so in the spirit of glasnost, i cobbled this thing together for him, gonna give it to him tomorrow, when i bring his brother a new drum set. (also lost in the damn fire)...
this is the liberal komrade, with a couple tweaks.
one thing that always pissed me off was this thing wasn't quite as "in your face" as i'd like, so i added a real simple boost to the end of it.
this is NOT VERIFIED, tho i expect it will be by tomorrow afternoon.... so if ya get crazy, and build it, no guarantees, but i believe it is right and should work outta the gate.
i mean...there's not a whole lot to it!!
;)
it's quite literally just a pnp fuzzface with a diode clipper with a series switchable boost for overdrive with a really simple low pass filter hard wired on (he is a tele player, and loves his treble)
i think it should be a simple, useful, toneful addition to the arsenal, and hopefully ease the pain of losing 50 years of irreplaceable rocknroll memorabilia, performing and recoriding gear, and so much more.
with apologies to joe gagan, it's still a commie pedal with soviet transistors...
so i present my lame and humble contribution, in the name of glasnost, the liberal komrade II with boost:(//)
Is that the same tail end boost as the Gemini III Dual fuzz circuit?
yesssir, dino!!
other than being a 3906 and pnp. ;)
thanks for turning me on to that, it's the stupidest simple boost. love it!!!
just made it so it's footswitchable. if the komrade wasn't quite loud enough before, well, now it should be. ;)
added pulldown resistor to the output of it, and a simple lpf using a small cap to bleed off some treble to help with the noise.
will add props to you on this later on, that was done stupid late last nite. been sooooooo much stuff happening... crazy.
how are ya bro?
Hey Jimi, I noticed in the layout above that Q3 says 3904, not 3906, and the wire from I18 isn't labeled. Good luck with the build!
afraid i am being misunderstood here. your responses illustrate my point. i would not name a pedal after a political ideology, no matter what side i am on. it is polarizing to do so, would you not want to reach as many people as possible?
Quote from: joegagan on March 20, 2013, 12:06:29 PM
afraid i am being misunderstood here. your responses illustrate my point. i would not name a pedal after a political ideology, no matter what side i am on. it is polarizing to do so, would you not want to reach as many people as possible?
no, i totally get your point. ;)
did you get my earlier response? called it liberal komrade just cuz it's a russian ff. doesn't have anything to do with politics, the cold war has been pretty much over for a long time. i think you see it as a political statement (my joking with you was, i guess) but it's just a fuzz with russian transistors... i can't call it a trotsky drive. ;)
the point is moot, i guess. i'm pulling the layout i did last nite, there's some kind of fatal error with it i haven't figured out yet.
back to the big debug. i screwed something up pretty bad somewhere. if i disconnect the boost part, the fuzz isn't working, if i disconnect the fuzz, the boost isn't working.
some form of typical pjp idiocy. i'm getting 9v+ to the e of c1, so something is mega amiss.
didn't mean to offend ya joe. the original pedal was built a couple years ago, and named then, too.
peace out
thanks keppy, yah, i screwed it up pretty badly!!
gotta stop doing this stuff when barely awake. :icon_redface:
i am not offended at all. you still don't get it. i am trying to help you achieve a more mass audience.
naaah, i get it bro, but this isn't something i would really care about reaching anyone with.m
it was a cool fuzz when i built it/named it. now, it's not as special i guess. i mean, all it is is a fuzzface, really!! ;)
to me, it's just a joke... the name i mean. always was. just my asinine sense of humor again i guess. ;)
if it matters, no, i wouldn't call something i was gonna do commercially something rude like this. but to me, the idea of goofing on the whole
cold war thing was just... funny.
that said, man, i can't believe the original one even worked, seeing as what a mess the "update" turned into. ;)
i found a couple seriously fatal flaws with it.
at this point, i've got the booster part working, and can almost get the fuzz working. very quiet. too tired to debug.
just visited the ashes of the studio. amazing no one was hurt. the headlights on my brother's truck even melted, the siding on the house 100 feet away.
his cousin's trailer next to it melted. inSANE.
the fire returned tonite again... third time. the fire department had just left when i got there.
all ya see is cinders and speaker frames. my nephew's truck was buried and burned when the barn came down to.
only took 15 minutes to be completely engulfed. imagine all the soundproofing stuff in the walls and ceiling were like pouring gas on a flame.
bloody tragic.
peace out
Sheesh! That sounds tragic indeed. Glad your family's OK though. I get properly p*ssed if I put a ding in a guitar. Can't even begin to imagine losing everything like that. Heartbreaking... :(
Back to your scheduled program... Now waiting for the updated layout/schemo to yer commie pinko fuzz, Jimi! ;D
thanks mark.
lol... i'm on it... i messed up the interface between q1, the fuzz control and q2...late at nite, i should have known better.
but...once the addiction kicks in... you know the drill!!!!
powerless...
"my name is jimi, and i'm a fuzzaholic" (hello, jimi)
thanks for the kind words about my family. we're hoping they emerge from this experience STRONGER.
now...as for the liberal komrade, i see joe's point, but he's banging a gong needlessly.
my naming it has NOTHING to do with politics whatsoever, if he only sees that, it's his trip.
i won't get into his/my differences on politics, i'm pretty centrist personally... and don't see the word "liberal" as anything worse than "conservative". there is no yin without yang, no wang without chung, and leave it at that.
i LOVE my kommie fuzz... love it so much, in fact, i just bought over 100 bucks worth of commie NOS ge military transistors so i can build more... if ya do some research, they can be had for a song, and even NPN versions.
the original liberal komrade has been burned at the stake as it was... so now it's time to pump a few out, and see what happens.
i mean, i have to ask if dano's trotsky drive is an issue?
comrade is a cliche... and liberal, as i think some people see it, is as well. some peeps take bullshit way, WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to seriously,
and frankly aren't too jazzed about political ideologies being uttered over a @#$%ing russian fuzz face.
while i get his point, i think it's completely overblown and unnecessary and will leave it at that.
that said, i love joe... he is a strong, upstanding, righteous guy, a great fuzz and wah maker, and a hell of a nice guy, to boot, someone on my bucket list of peeps to hang out with one day.
onwards and upwards, komrades...da?
:icon_mrgreen:
Just been checking out your Lounge thread. You should box a few of these up (when the design is finalised) and put 'em up for sale to raise a few bucks! I'm envisioning a distressed "fire damaged" design for the boxes... ;)
not a bad idea. once i get the bugs worked out.. ;)
if any of the amp chassis survived, i'm hoping to rebuild them back into whatever they were for the guys. ;)
LOL... Jimi, it sounds GREAT dude. That's what matters here. Name that sh*t whatever you want, let the dogs eat the scraps :icon_twisted:
thanks bro.
i can't get how i f'd up the second edition so badly, lol...
but... it's giving me some ideas for an octave fuzz version that may be kinda cool.
right now, i'm getting fuzz down an octave, but it's wicked unpredictable.
it's kinda cool, it self oscillates, almost like a ring mod. i REALLY @#$%ed it up!! :icon_mrgreen:
as for the name... dude, it is what it is. i'm not gonna get hung up over someone else's hangup with a term i feel is pretty much abused. whatever.. lol
geeze, reading your earlier posts, I thought yr pedal musta started the fire in the barn .....
you could call the update "don't go in the barn", but there's no politics in that.
You still working on this bro? If so, can you sketch out what you've got so far, maybe I can help with the switching part. I was too slow on the trigger, and I didn't get a copy of the vero downloaded.
Quote from: duck_arse on March 22, 2013, 11:26:03 AM
geeze, reading your earlier posts, I thought yr pedal musta started the fire in the barn .....
you could call the update "don't go in the barn", but there's no politics in that.
there was no politics involved from jump street.
only from one person's perspective, and i am for sure not gonna worry about it.
Quote from: digi2t on March 22, 2013, 11:31:44 AM
You still working on this bro? If so, can you sketch out what you've got so far, maybe I can help with the switching part. I was too slow on the trigger, and I didn't get a copy of the vero downloaded.
yah, it's weird... i don't see why it's breaking my balls so bad..there was a major layout malfunction, but i found that. now it's a major oscillation problem, somewhere something is feeding back or passing signal where it shouldn't.
some trannys work in it, some don't... i can send ya the layout i did, but i definitely screwed something up. :icon_redface:
PM the layout to me.
Quote from: digi2t on March 22, 2013, 11:51:38 AM
PM the layout to me.
will do bro... gimme a second.. ;)
i finally got around to doing this...
this is built and verified and kickin' ass. ;)
the boost works nice by itself, too. the two together is a decent combination.
onwards and upwards...
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/LIBERALKOMRADEIIWITHBOOST21vero_zps44acfdae.png)
fuzzy goodness to the masses!!