DIYstompboxes.com

so... we were talking about old Kustom amps...

i wondered what the "harmonic clipper" circuit would sound like, digi2t was kind enough to isolate the fuzz section of the "special effects board" schematic.

i always LOVED kustoms, so i had to build one. this isn't exact to the original schematic, and the circuit was  adapted to run at 9v instead of 12.. it was also designed to have a preamp pushing it. dino built one on his breadboard, and wasn't impressed.

i, of course, had to try it on vero... i made it a little different from dino's schem, for one thing, i started at the 100k pot at the input to the circuit.
and instead of using BPT's, i opted for mosfets... vn2222's, which i REALLY like quite a bit.
since i'm a hack, i don't worry about using stuff where i shouldn't... i figure either it will work, or it won't. so i just plugged them mother@#$%ers in.

fired it up...and i LIKED it. it really sounded like the old john fogarty sound once i dialed up some tremolo and reverb on my amp.

i took it out live, but it was TOO brite... so i added a couple small snubbers, which took care of the earwigs without @#$%ing up the tone and vibe too bad, and now it's a cool little standalone fuzz, in some ways it reminds me of tim escobedo's harmonic jerkulator.

so here's the vero, as it were... i call it the "suzy-q"...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/suzyqmk1_zpsc00f9884.png)

here's the schem i worked from, tho i had to mod a few values... was setup as  too   much   of a treble booster as per the original, so i put bigger caps in, which helped:

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Kustom/FuzzSection.jpg)

here's the original schem, fwiw...

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Kustom/KustomPC5069B_001.jpg)

it's a cool little fuzz... stupid pedal trick coming soon! it really likes it when you roll your tone knob way down, and then sweep up to the "sweet spot"... it cleans up fairly well from the guitar, too.  so.... if'n you're bored sometime...

Aaaw, man...another one to build!  Too bad my soldering iron shot craps...

larry!!! good to hear from ya...

i got your snail mail... do they have to be green superbrights?
all i have is blue, maybe a couple clears. i don't have any green led's right now at all...

gotta hit tayda one of these days... ;)

let me know bud!!

Yeah, Jimi...up and running, at least temporarily.  The super bright greens are for Rob Henry's version of the Phuncgnosis...they are what he specs - no big deal, just thought you might have some.  I will probably list a couple of amp chassis's for sale on here real soon, to finance a new soldering iron.  So, as always: when's the SPT coming for this one?  I always dig 'em.

OK, I had time tonight to test with FET's. Stuck some BS170's in here, and MAN!!, it's got some bite now. I readjusted the trimmers to more common values, and this is what I've got now on the breadboard;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Kustom/FuzzSection_MOSFET_zpse2e3a518.jpg)

With the 3.3K, 510K and 6.8K resistors, you'll get pretty close to the voltages.

I see what you mean about the treble bite, it's up there. 0.22 caps are definately in order here. But...

Sticking a treble booster in front of this sucker really makes it scream. It's amazing now, way better than the BJT's. Since it's JUUUUSSSSTTTT below unity, I think it would make a great rhythm pedal, and kicking a booster on in front of it would rocket you into Solo-land. Not to mention the amazing increase in fuzz. Really nice fuzz too, less synthy than with the BJT's. Honestly, I would try shacking it up with an Omega boost, with the boost in front. Like a Skyripper deal, Range before Fuzz. The Omega is a great boost, easy to build, and the tone control on it is great as well.

Gonna play with some cap values now.

I am impressed now. Lookin' real bootweaky. :icon_cool:

Quote from: rutabaga bob on January 31, 2013, 09:57:58 PM
Yeah, Jimi...up and running, at least temporarily.  The super bright greens are for Rob Henry's version of the Phuncgnosis...they are what he specs - no big deal, just thought you might have some.  I will probably list a couple of amp chassis's for sale on here real soon, to finance a new soldering iron.  So, as always: when's the SPT coming for this one?  I always dig 'em.

well, glad to see ya here, regardless. ;)

i built the phungnosis, and just used plain old red ones, and made a retrofit to do DA's mod, it worked great... so if ya have any led's, i don't think it will really matter a whole lot.

i COULD be wrong.. frequently, in fact!! ;)

spt will be as soon as i get a chance... was still messing with it earlier, it's almost where i want it.

hope you're back in the swing soon!!

will regular led's work? i can send ya some of those.

Quote from: digi2t on January 31, 2013, 10:52:36 PM
OK, I had time tonight to test with FET's. Stuck some BS170's in here, and MAN!!, it's got some bite now. I readjusted the trimmers to more common values, and this is what I've got now on the breadboard;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Kustom/FuzzSection_MOSFET_zpse2e3a518.jpg)

With the 3.3K, 510K and 6.8K resistors, you'll get pretty close to the voltages.

I see what you mean about the treble bite, it's up there. 0.22 caps are definately in order here. But...

Sticking a treble booster in front of this sucker really makes it scream. It's amazing now, way better than the BJT's. Since it's JUUUUSSSSTTTT below unity, I think it would make a great rhythm pedal, and kicking a booster on in front of it would rocket you into Solo-land. Not to mention the amazing increase in fuzz. Really nice fuzz too, less synthy than with the BJT's. Honestly, I would try shacking it up with an Omega boost, with the boost in front. Like a Skyripper deal, Range before Fuzz. The Omega is a great boost, easy to build, and the tone control on it is great as well.

Gonna play with some cap values now.

I am impressed now. Lookin' real bootweaky. :icon_cool:

lost the pic, bro, can you repost?

the treble bite is EXTREME.... before settling on anything, make sure your amp is cranked up, cuz the hash can be excessive!! it's not bad turned down, but cranked it can get a mite unmanageable, right quick!!

i DO like a boost in front of it, but i like it even more kicking into another boost. thinking maybe a real simple little add on gain stage at the end to bring it up to unity.

or, just turn the amp up.

it's a lot nicer than i would have thought. i'm betting even bigger caps would work well, bet you could go up to 1u no problem...may get some of the "thump" back, make it seem to have a little more volume.

yah...i bet bs170's sound nice!! i love them in my SHO. funny how ya can just plug 'em in, innit? ;)

look forward to seeing your pic... schematic? ;)

just a note:

(http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/astrotone-schematic.jpg)

You built a mosfet booster gain stage to a follower.

a link to the vn2222 http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/VN2222LL-D-116470.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/VN2222LL-D-116470.pdf)

Look at  a SHO

Look up biasing MOSFETS

Now what are the transistor voltages with the drain to gate resistor biasing I an assuming the gate to ground resistor is missing?
I don't think the output stage being a source follower mosfet makes a difference compared to a emitter follower. (yes it might sound a little different because of operation point but if both operating points are set the same I think the follower stage will sound the same)

schematic and voltages?

Built the Suzy-Q circuit, as shown, and tested it out last night (at least the sort of testing you can do at 10:50PM when you know everybody in the house has to be up at 4:30AM).  Such is my trust in you, Sir James, that I even committed some of my limited stash of tropical fish caps (bought in 1978, I believe) to it.  The diodes were unmarked generic germaniums, with a forward voltage of around 330mv each.

Works as promised.  More of a thick "harmonic slurry" than a fuzz or "distortion", and very much in the same camp as the Knight Fuzz, as was noted by others.

Quote from: LucifersTrip on February 01, 2013, 03:08:42 AM
just a note:

(http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/astrotone-schematic.jpg)

thanks dave, that is indeed pretty freakin' close!!!


a couple minor changes, looks like either bud ross ripped off astrotone, or vice - versa.

nice sounding fuzzular, especially with the mosfets. ;)

Since Mark brought up the Knight Fuzz, here`s a nice write up Dave did on it; http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090 (http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090). I think some of the mods he did on it could be applied to the Suzie-Q as well, especially where «harshness» is concerned.

I`m going to try it with an Omega Boost in front tonight. I have it in my Silicon Skyripper, so I`m going to stick it in front and see how it sounds. If it rocks my world (which I believe it will), I`ll whip up a schematic.

Quote from: Gus on February 01, 2013, 07:11:24 AM

You built a mosfet booster gain stage to a follower.

a link to the vn2222 http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/VN2222LL-D-116470.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/VN2222LL-D-116470.pdf)

Look at  a SHO

Look up biasing MOSFETS

Now what are the transistor voltages with the drain to gate resistor biasing I an assuming the gate to ground resistor is missing?
I don't think the output stage being a source follower mosfet makes a difference compared to a emitter follower. (yes it might sound a little different because of operation point but if both operating points are set the same I think the follower stage will sound the same)

schematic and voltages?

hi gus... this is the schematic dino worked up:

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Kustom/FuzzSection.jpg)

there's more info in this thread:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=100981.80

here's voltages, etc...

vn2222llrlrag

battery: 9.54v

after 100r resistor : 9.36v

q1
c  1.98
b  1.96
e  0.00

q2
c  9.36
b  3.54
e  1.89


differences between my build and dino's schem,

i added a 100k attack control to the input of the circuit, and went with .22u caps at input and output. you can see the actual values used on my vero.
also added a pair of tiny caps to s/g(?) of the mosfets, where it would be b/c if BPT'S. tamed the earwigs a little bit.

i will look up biasing mosfets when i get a chance, thanks as always for the tip!!

i don't know what i'm doing technically at all, remember, i'm a hack who knows very little so i don't mind breaking rules i don't know exist!! ;)

to me, i thought it was kinda like a fuzzface, but with mosfets and some weird values. ;)

can you suggest a way to get just a little more output? i seem to understand it when i see it, even if i don't have a clue what someone is describing cuz my swahilil 101 class just started.

;)

Quote from: digi2t on February 01, 2013, 12:32:27 PM
Since Mark brought up the Knight Fuzz, here`s a nice write up Dave did on it; http://....org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090 (//http:///viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090). I think some of the mods he did on it could be applied to the Suzie-Q as well, especially where «harshness» is concerned.

I`m going to try it with an Omega Boost in front tonight. I have it in my Silicon Skyripper, so I`m going to stick it in front and see how it sounds. If it rocks my world (which I believe it will), I`ll whip up a schematic.

Personally, I'm not looking to tart it up at all.  It does what it does, appropriately, and fills a niche.  If a simple change can yield a wholly unique personality, I'll implement it, but right now I'm staring at so dang many harmonic-generating devices that it has to be REALLY unique and special to prompt me to mod.  Not a diss, you just reach a point where you have so many ways to get the same sound that you're not looking to find another one.

Quote from: Mark Hammer on February 01, 2013, 08:55:42 AM
Built the Suzy-Q circuit, as shown, and tested it out last night (at least the sort of testing you can do at 10:50PM when you know everybody in the house has to be up at 4:30AM).  Such is my trust in you, Sir James, that I even committed some of my limited stash of tropical fish caps (bought in 1978, I believe) to it.  The diodes were unmarked generic germaniums, with a forward voltage of around 330mv each.

Works as promised.  More of a thick "harmonic slurry" than a fuzz or "distortion", and very much in the same camp as the Knight Fuzz, as was noted by others.

glad you approve mark. to me, it sounds kinda like the percolator, or more accurately the jerkulator.

i "get" the "harmonic slurry" sound. i've found the most useable tones so far with humbuckers with the tone rolled way back... then it becomes wicked responsive to pick attack, etc, but you can still hear the basic tone of whatever guitar or pickups you feed it.

now, all we need is to kick it up a notch..or better, 3. i like to be able to have more volume than i need, that usually helps take out the "blow" from the circuitry.

Quote from: digi2t on February 01, 2013, 12:32:27 PM
Since Mark brought up the Knight Fuzz, here`s a nice write up Dave did on it; http://....org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090 (//http:///viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090). I think some of the mods he did on it could be applied to the Suzie-Q as well, especially where «harshness» is concerned.

I`m going to try it with an Omega Boost in front tonight. I have it in my Silicon Skyripper, so I`m going to stick it in front and see how it sounds. If it rocks my world (which I believe it will), I`ll whip up a schematic.

it REALLY works GREAT in front of distortion/overdrive.. fuzz before it, even better! try it before some other dirt bro, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised!!
the JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUst below unity thing doesn't matter so much then, and it will even bring a lame boss pedal to life.
seems to be fairly clean, other than the harmonics.


oh yeah, i forgot...

gus... drain to ground resistor? there wasn't one, should i try to add one?

Quote from: Mark Hammer on February 01, 2013, 12:47:02 PM

Quote from: digi2t on February 01, 2013, 12:32:27 PM
Since Mark brought up the Knight Fuzz, here`s a nice write up Dave did on it; http://....org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090 (//http:///viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090). I think some of the mods he did on it could be applied to the Suzie-Q as well, especially where «harshness» is concerned.

I`m going to try it with an Omega Boost in front tonight. I have it in my Silicon Skyripper, so I`m going to stick it in front and see how it sounds. If it rocks my world (which I believe it will), I`ll whip up a schematic.

Personally, I'm not looking to tart it up at all.  It does what it does, appropriately, and fills a niche.  If a simple change can yield a wholly unique personality, I'll implement it, but right now I'm staring at so dang many harmonic-generating devices that it has to be REALLY unique and special to prompt me to mod.  Not a diss, you just reach a point where you have so many ways to get the same sound that you're not looking to find another one.

gotcha bro.

the two things it needs, in my opinion, are a metric skooch more volume, and at the least a switch to add snubbers to q1 and 2. at low volumes, it doesn't need it, it sounds great, but if you need to play it loud, the high end is just too much, even to my damaged deaf old ears.

but tonally? i love it. it's not quite a fuzz, not quite a drive.. somewhere in the middle.

i had a feeling you'd like it. ;)

i just re-read dave's excellent post on the knight fuzz.. some of it makes a lot of sense. i tried to "thank" but got a "fatal error" notification,
so thanks lucifer!!

i love saying that...lol..

still, the biggest thing is, more volume. if there's no way to do it natively, wellp, i guess i'll have to consider adding another stage.

on the other thread, maybe we should add this to the trem/vibe project, and just call it "fogarty in a box".

gonna TRY to get to a SPT today... a lot of irons in the fire at the moment.

QuoteNot a diss, you just reach a point where you have so many ways to get the same sound that you're not looking to find another one.

No diss taken Mark, whatsoever. I get your POV, 110%. It`s just my own personal taste on the issue. I just find it great with the FET`s... for ryhthm. I found that kicking a Rangemaster on in front of it gives me a nice boost, and fuzz gain, while retaining most of it`s character. Good solo boost. Again, this is my angle, I`m not trying to make any converts here. The reason why I want to try the Omega, is because the Rangemaster adds some hiss to an already treble-laden sound. I`ve found that the Omega is better in this respect. I tried the Skyripper fuzz in front of it, but that really messed up the character of it. Just a boost is fine.

All in all, the Reverand Jim`s design is fine, I`m cool with it, and it`s worth boxing. Doesn`t really sound like anything else I have in my arsenal. The Omega front end (maybe), with it`s own footswitch, will be my own «add to taste» thingy.

so... dino, mark, do you think i should try maybe tacking another gain stage on the end to get it louder?

i agree... it's a great pedal for what it is, it's gotta unique sound... it really does sound (to me) like a kustom.

i used to use a blown kustom (the power amp was blown) as the front end for my marshall jcm800 50 watter... no verb, no fx loop etc..

i'd take the "monitor" output right to the low gain input of the jcm, and man, i loved it.... trem/verb, and a nice treble boosted overdrive. put the echoplex in
between, and i was VERY happy... but back then i was playing "grungy" hard rock with a serious southern twist. this was great for that (i didn't play strats back then, was gibsons usually, so the treble boost was welcome)..

doing the asian icemen style, i can see where it needs a kick in the ass from another boost (the FAL makes a REALLY nice front end, BTW)...but for my more blues-oriented, it's nice just by itself.
i like not having to crank my guitar to get a nice tone.

be cool to see where this goes, i am really jazzed you guys approve! ;)

Quote from: digi2t on February 01, 2013, 12:32:27 PM
Since Mark brought up the Knight Fuzz, here`s a nice write up Dave did on it; http://....org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090 (//http:///viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20090). I think some of the mods he did on it could be applied to the Suzie-Q as well, especially where «harshness» is concerned.

...don't have to go to fsb for my Knight build report,
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99677.0

But, though it's similar to the Knight Fuzz, it's just too damn close to the Astrotone / Sam Ash. I've built multiple stock Knight Fuzzes and Astrotones (and tweaked and modded both) and there's a pretty big difference in sound. The Knight was muddy and had no balls as stock, but the Astrotone (as we basically have here with the Suzy-Q) only needed the right transistors (my final version had no mods) to get it to sound cool.

If you read build reports, you'll find that many found it to sound best with transistors in the 300 range, which is very close to what I got before I read those. Here's my final with voltages
(http://www.luciferstrip.com/fuzz/astrotone-schematic-final.jpg)

If I wanted more volume, I guess the 1st thing I'd do to the Suzy-Q is try silicon diodes or use ge's in series.

hmmm, wonder it tacking that tone control on would take the "edge" off some.

thanks dave, gonna have a play with it later i think. i don't understand how the hell the tone control can work tho, there's no filter attached to it!!
or is it using the .047 cap before it somehow?

this knowledge frightens me and makes me want to hang garlic around my vestibules!! lol :icon_twisted:

i could try doubling the diodes.. but i REALLY like the tone as it is, and in my experience, doubling diodes will probably change the tone some.

there's gotta be a simple/elegant tweak to pull off. ;)

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on February 01, 2013, 04:40:30 PM
hmmm, wonder it tacking that tone control on would take the "edge" off some.

thanks dave, gonna have a play with it later i think. i don't understand how the hell the tone control can work tho, there's no filter attached to it!!

it's a really cheapo tone control that many would frown upon, but for me it's cool enough. It's just a resistor across the volume pot with a limiter so you can't hit 0

remember, a while ago, with the Fuzz Face, I suggested you experiment with a 500K pot across (lugs 1 -3) the 500K volume pot and slowly turn it down (decrease K) so you could see what happens. same here, as you go lower, there's a slow decrease in volume and the treble increases (or is it the bass that decreases...or both?). either way, a cheap, goofball tone control that would probably never be used today.

ahhh, probably not worth messing with. tho a little less treble would be good, it really can't afford to be quieter.

i DO  remember that conversation, though, and WILL  try it...thanks bro!

Quotedoing the asian icemen style

I must say, I'm honored myself! Thanks bro!  :icon_cool:

I tried the Omega on the front end, and it kicks major booty. Great boost up, and quieter than the Rangemaster. While the "Range" pot takes care of dialing in just the right amount of drive, the "Master" knob handles how far you want to push things. It's poifect for me. I would rename the "Range" and "Master", to "Drive" and "Boost", and finish off with an output volume control.

On the Suzie-Q side I found that increasing the 0.0047 cap tames the top end, while increasing the 0.068 fattens up the bottom. In my setup, changing the 0.0047 to 0.1, and increasing the 0.068 to a Panasonic 1uF metal film gives me an increase in volume, a firm chunky bottom end, and top end sparkle without the icepick hiss. I can live with the 10K output pot.

I was thinking about your unity problem, and then I thought of the final stage of the Gemini III fuzz. It uses a very simple clean booster to up the output.

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Gemini%20Fuzz/Outputamp.jpg)

The tranny I used in the Gemini is a 2N5088. It should give you a more than adequate boost, without coloring the tone.

Did a quick redraw, adding the bells and whistles;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Kustom/MOSFETFuzzwithBoost_zpsb8488005.jpg)

The Omega section ass end has been corrected to eliminate the "Itchy and Scratchy" pot problem. I added the optional BOOST section to the Suzie-Q. You could up the volume pot to 100K.

I don't have any radio station problems on the breadboard, hence no pF caps around the FET's.

awesome!!

yah, i didn't even keep the .0047, i just stuck it across the volume pot.
i'll try adding the stage on a daughter board. sounds like it may be just the ticket.

will also try going to even bigger caps, see what happens. i believe we'll sus this out and make it perfect!

are you getting enough output at 10k? wondering if maybe i should try 50 instead of 100?
it seems to go up...albeit marginally...all the way to the top of the 100k, but that may be where some of the hiss is coming from.

dave's trick with the p cap in parallel with the bc of q1 is a good trick, but i found if i go above 10p it whacks off too much treble and it loses the sparkle that
makes it so cool. it could be cuz of the mosfets i guess... the sterno face is a little hissy, too, probably cuz it uses the same transistor in it.

i see ya posted an update...nice!!

i would seriously advise trying the 100k pot on the input tho, it's like the "attack" control on a tonebender. if ya don't like it, don't use it!

maybe that's why i'm losing a little volume maybe? i'll try it with a 500k and see what happens!

thanks bro! ;)

I've never used the VN2222 before, but the treble isn't that harsh with the BS170. Still it does need to be tamed somewhat, and I think the key to that is that 0.0047 capa at the end. I sorta like the 0.1 in it's place. Kills a lot of hiss, and the sparkle is still decent. You could go halfway, and stick a 0.068 in there. I found upping the output 0.068 to 1uF also upped the volume, but I think that's more a result of increasing the bottom and mid, so it's more like "increasing perceived volume"  :D.

that's why i went up to .22, gave it more ass and took some of the earwigs away. ;)

it's pretty decent now, probably won't get to do a SPT til monday-ish. if i get a chance, i'll try adding the extra stage on a daughterboard.
got a problem fender pro jr. on the bench, the guy who'd teched it in the past lifted the pads on most of the traces, so it gets intermittent and it's a real bitch to fix.
i've had it in and out 4 times now, last time it was good for a month, and right back it comes again. ay yi yi yi yi...

i also need to listen with a fresh set of ears to it.. it's a fine line between "blow" and "hiss"..

i may try the bs170, i think i have some. i LO-O-Ove the tone of the vn's, but may have to compromise.

beats me. brain death has struck at this point. ;)

If I wanted more gain and a lowpass filter.  I would build something like the following.
I would remove the follower stage and make it a controlled/designed gain stage (about x10 as shown gain can be adjusted).
and place the lowpass between the stages (output resistance of the first stage,R14 and C7) Increase or decrease C7 for lowpass
adjust coupling caps values for highpass frequencies

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=48645&g2_serialNumber=1)

Also I don't like the first stage biasing of the first stage of this fuzz(grounded emitter with only a C to B resistor) I would use the C to B and B to ground type biasing like you find in a BMP IF you want the feedback from C to B.  This is more predictable without selecting a hfe of the transistor.

but...

i'm using mosfets, not 5089's, and the key was to try and capture some of that kustom "vibe".

i'm no where near advanced enough at this point to do all that. for me, if it passes sound and fuzzes, i'm good! ;)

pretty much at this point, it sounds good. probably better than you'd expect bro.

sometimes, what's right gets trumped by just sounding good. right now, i'm just looking to tweak the circuit just slightly to see if i can get a little more out of it,
without changing it's tone. it's close.
the original idea as posted by dino was so good i literally got lost in it for a couple hours, which almost never happens.

but i am grateful for your help/guidance/suggestions/ideas big time, gus... you are a patient man, to try and get this dumb schmuck to learn anything!!
and i am... in fits and starts... slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwly... ;)


the low pass filter in this case is  c7 r10 and r11? won't that make it a little lower in volume tho? it looks like almost the same circuit, i like the idea of going up to .1u on the caps. just worried it may start to lose the "sound" it had originally. going to .22 brought up the volume and mids/bass a bit, but it's almost too much.. kinda obscures the tone it had originally (which was more of a treble boosted fuzz).. the .22's seemed to drop it's effective range down about an octave harmonically, if that makes any sense. ;)

i'll have a play with it when i can, my son's here visiting, so my experimenting has to wait for another day. ;)

thanks bro... please don't get me wrong, i appreciate every thing you've tried to show me!!

some of it is starting to stick!! ;)

k, so...

here's uh, da deal...

the omega "boost" section is PERFECT. doesn't f' up the tone, and makes it so unity gain is about 9:00 instead of just below full tilt boogie!!

used a 5089 and a 2.2k for subs, but it works great. i'll re-do the vero with the added boost.

took off the .0047 cap across the volume control, don't need it any more. could probably go back down to .047 on the coupling caps.

;)

Quotethe omega "boost" section is PERFECT

Uh bro... I think you mean the post boost section, right? At the end of the Suzie-Q circuit? The Omega is a whole different circuit, for the front end, like a Rangemaster.

I'm glad the post-boost circuit worked out. Like I said before, it was something that I spotted in the Gemini III fuzz. As a matter of fact, it also uses a pre boost section front end, on the silicon side, like this;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Gemini%20Fuzz/Pre-boost_zps98e680fd.jpg)

I guess using this one would drive the rest of the circuit harder, instead of simply amping the final product. Could be a simple add-on as well, if you want to pre-amp the circuit, to drive it harder.

Desicions, desicions.... :icon_rolleyes:

:icon_lol:

dude...

found the PERFECT front end.

i had built this a long time ago and messed it up, built another one this morning.

gonna tack it on to the input of the circuit. takes care of the noise issues, makes the pedal react to the guitar more, and the volume pot works as a "boost" knob...

(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/enrulado/Wah-FuzzEnablerlayout.jpg)

and totally doesn't f with the tone. it SOUNDS like a kustom, but more important, it FEELS like a kustom.

reacts right. it's pretty cool!!!

plenty of volume now with the boost at the end, too. you can get tone just about anywhere on the od control.

so gonna relabel the three knobs as boost, harmonics (cuz that's what it adds) and volume.

stupid pedal trick grows imminent...

thanks for all the help and advice!! ;)

and yes, with the buffer, it plays nice with one of my fuzzfaces, the jerkulator, and the fuzz/od thing i just made.

Quote from: digi2t on February 02, 2013, 03:58:55 PM

Quotethe omega "boost" section is PERFECT

Uh bro... I think you mean the post boost section, right? At the end of the Suzie-Q circuit? The Omega is a whole different circuit, for the front end, like a Rangemaster.

I'm glad the post-boost circuit worked out. Like I said before, it was something that I spotted in the Gemini III fuzz. As a matter of fact, it also uses a pre boost section front end, on the silicon side, like this;

(http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc196/digi2t/Gemini%20Fuzz/Pre-boost_zps98e680fd.jpg)

I guess using this one would drive the rest of the circuit harder, instead of simply amping the final product. Could be a simple add-on as well, if you want to pre-amp the circuit, to drive it harder.

Desicions, desicions.... :icon_rolleyes:

:icon_lol:

The type of bias used in the fragment above is not a good design IMO.  (resistor base to +9VDC)
You might want to try the parts of the circuit I posted.  The part right of the diode clippers (R14 and to the right)you don't need a buffer to a gain stage.

You can have a lowpass filter(passes lows takes out highs) and a gain stage with a gain of 10 in the example you can increase or decrease the gain with adjusting the resistor values.  R12 and R13 are sim of a 100K volume control at max volume

one more to add to the list of things to try. ;)

gonna try and work up a schematic for the whole shebang, as built.  :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:

Yes!

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/SUZYQMKII_zpsa789dfd6.png)

AS PER YOUR REQUEST, LARRY!!!!
lol

vero to come. this is the circuit i built... nevermind it's on three circuit boards at the moment. ;)

i'll cobble together a vero for it as soon as possible. maybe. i suck at stuff that's even slightly complicated!!

but...that said.. it works. it does what it should. the 11k resistor is actually a 10k trimmer and a 1k resistor, but
i don't know how to really draw that, with what i was working with.

all knobs half way up, it sounds like suzy q or green river. crank the attack knob, and it gets more focus and bite.
crank the harmonics up, and it starts to saturate.
there's enough volume on tap to overdrive pretty much any amp without having to crank the attack and harmonics.. unity gain is about 9:00 now.

the more ya crank it, the better it sounds. responds to your guitar like a good fuzz face.

wah friendly before/after. plays nice with fuzzes too, tho they can get REAL freakin' saturated.

wanna thank dino and gus for the advice, and thank felipe osorio, from whom i stole the input buffer (which is pretty close to the foxrocks wah buffer), and whomever the hell made that boost dino turned me on to.

i likes it. this one is probably the best sounding pedal i've monkeyed together yet.

stupid pedal tricks iminent... stay tuned!!

WOW bro, NICE!!! :icon_cool:

Quick question/observation; Would it be better to not connect the Attack pot to ground? That way you could turn down the attack, but not kill the signal completely.

hmmmm, good call. i haven't stuffed the buffer into the rat shack box yet, i could lift the ground easy enough. see how it is.

right now, it's nice, but that would improve it some for sure. maybe even float it, put like a 2.7k resistor.

worth a shot! ;)

couldn't have done it without ya bro, thanks!!! i wanna build your version too.. i have a feeling it's a little "heavier" than this one is..

and i'm a sick bastard, i loves me some stankin nasty fuzz.. ;)

Wow, if it's the best circuit you put together I'll have to build this! Gonna have to order up some vn2222's on the next Tayda order.
I still have not built your Dick Wagner OD.... gotta slap it on the breadboard soon too.  Keep on rockin'!!

hi bill, let me revisit the wagner pedal. i think i may make a few changes to it.
this thing in this thread isn't gonna be for everybody.. gimme a day or two to get a stupid pedal trick posted so you can decide.

this is a very "clean" fuzz, for lack of a better word. half way up, it sounds like suzy q or green river. if you like that sound, then by all means go for it!

Thanks Jim.... no hurry. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the new Stupid Pedal Trick.
I'm a big CCR fan, so I'll probably dig it!!

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on February 02, 2013, 08:52:55 PM
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/SUZYQMKII_zpsa789dfd6.png)

AS PER YOUR REQUEST, LARRY!!!!
lol

vero to come. this is the circuit i built... nevermind it's on three circuit boards at the moment. ;)

i'll cobble together a vero for it as soon as possible. maybe. i suck at stuff that's even slightly complicated!!

but...that said.. it works. it does what it should. the 11k resistor is actually a 10k trimmer and a 1k resistor, but
i don't know how to really draw that, with what i was working with.

all knobs half way up, it sounds like suzy q or green river. crank the attack knob, and it gets more focus and bite.
crank the harmonics up, and it starts to saturate.
there's enough volume on tap to overdrive pretty much any amp without having to crank the attack and harmonics.. unity gain is about 9:00 now.

the more ya crank it, the better it sounds. responds to your guitar like a good fuzz face.

wah friendly before/after. plays nice with fuzzes too, tho they can get REAL freakin' saturated.

wanna thank dino and gus for the advice, and thank felipe osorio, from whom i stole the input buffer (which is pretty close to the foxrocks wah buffer), and whomever the hell made that boost dino turned me on to.

i likes it. this one is probably the best sounding pedal i've monkeyed together yet.

stupid pedal tricks iminent... stay tuned!!

Too many parts IMO.  I don't see anything I posted about in the schematic above.

The buffer does not need the 47K (22k 1uf node the 10k harmonics control is the pull down and you are not switching this buffer)
The 10pf Drain to +9VD does nothing at drawn at the 2nd vn2222 stage
You don't need the 1meg at the .22uf, 10k wiper node

You could make the first stage an emitter follower(EF) or source follower(SF) ADD the series resistor after the EF (look at the 3 transistor fuzz in schematics) OR design a X2 transistor circuit with a 22K output resistance.
you don't need the 2nd vn2222 buffer stage you can combine the Vn2222 SF and output boost  as one transistor

Look at the input and output sections for some ideas, adjust cap values for high pass and low pass frequencies.
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=48651&g2_serialNumber=1)

ummm, gus, i never said i was building the fuzz you posted above. i gave thanks for your advice tho. :icon_biggrin:

being able to dump a couple parts is hip, but this thing sounds the way i want it to. what you're suggesting would be a completely different circuit.. sorta.

other than the cap values being different, it's pretty close to what i cobbled together.

the 10p cap on the second mosfet does indeed do something... it knocks out some of the high end noise that was happening. it was noticeable at 3.3p, 4.7p,6.8p, at 10p it made a perceptible difference without taking off too much highs. above 10p, it began to muddy it up and it started losing the harmonics.

i'm talking just real-world application, yes, it's a dodge, but if the end justifies the means, i'm good with it. yes, it's got too many parts, i'm sure, and there may be a better way to implement it from an engineering standpoint, but i'm no engineer.
just a kid who had a big hallucination. (many times, in fact   :icon_eek: )

i go by what my ears tell me, after being completely addicted to electric guitars sound since the 60's. i tried a bunch of things for the front end on this...without the buffer, with the tone knob on the guitar rolled back, i got noise, pulsing oscillation kinda crap at the edge of my hearing. i primarily build these things for me, and i DO use the knobs on my guitar...i prefer to never be "on 10"...so it was an issue.

i tried my rangemaster, my tonebender, a si and a ge fuzzface, my recent fuzz/od, my superfuzz, even some boss pedals. as soon as i added the boss pedals, it worked better, so i figured i'd hit the box of buffers i'd built and never use. this was the one that, to my ear, made it come to life. so i added it on.

before the buffer, it needed low pass filtering to get rid of the noise. once the buffer is there, the guitar knobs work great, and it doesn't need the LP filter, so i didn't bother even trying to implement it.

but then, having built a couple of your fuzzes, i think we're looking for very different sounds... you like real aggressive fuzzes that are unbelievably responsive to pick attack and playing, fuzzes that become the centerpiece of the guitar's tone.

i'm looking more at how it augments the tone of the guitar and amp...i don't want sonic domination, i want color, and a fair bit more subtle. i think we all voice things to our ears, what resonates in our souls. like dino's version without the attack control... it sounds great (i bypassed it on mine to see what it would sound like) but for me, it's not right... too much distortion, too many highs for my style (i like listeners to not know if i'm using effects or not, and tend to emulate very amp like sounds with them) but for the Asian Icemen, i can see where it would be perfect. just different styles is all bro. not saying i'm right, hell, pretty sure i'm NEVER right, lol..

but it DOES get a sound. i played thru kustoms for years, and with all three knobs half way up, it sounds like a cranked up kustom. you were the guy who taught me you want to get the sounds you're looking for in the middle of the pot's range, which i try to do.. this may be far from perfect, but hey, it sounds good. at least to me.
;)

that said.. i'll look at removing unnecessary bits to see if i can lower the parts count a little, for sure. not needing pulldowns for pops can be great, so i'll lift the ground ends and see if there's any tonal change. if not, hell yah, i can get 'em out of there. but if there is, i'll just end up soldering them down again.

to me, it's gotta sound good thru a couple amps... the ruby (everything sounds good), the cyber (which is almost impossible to get something to sound good thru), or my hot-rodded princeton (which is my real benchmark)

if i like it thru all three, i figure it will be good.

i'm looking at this, and yep, you're right about the 10p cap... i've gotta remove the trace to the 9v rail just above the 1m bc resistor...good catch!!

would it be better to move the 1m at the 10k pot to the input of the 500k pot as a pulldown resistor? (remember, this is 3 circuit boards that were added together, so the schem as shown is the amalgamation of all three veros, or exactly what i'm listening to)

and, in the end, remember, this is based on the original to a point..i've already changed the q's and the values of the caps, and modified the "sound" of the original circuit...which had a preamp in front of it, and another behind it.

the one thing no circuit sim can do is let you listen... you can "listen" with your eyes, by looking at the waveforms, but DAW 101 is to NEVER listen with your eyes..
do it with your ears.

before ya judge it too harshly, let me up a sample so you can see what it sounds like...in the end, if it sounds good, it's good. i mean..too many parts? this is nothing compared to a klon! ;) (on oh, soooooo many levels.)

;)

thank you gus. yes, it may not have parts in it or stages you suggested (yet) but your advice and guidance aren't falling on deaf ears. that's why i gave ya props on the schem i cobbled together. i will update the schematic right now, thanks for the good eyes!!!

and, as it is for most folks, the buffer is probably not needed, so the original vero should be good...

here's the fixed (so far) schematic with the 10p cap fixed...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/SUZYQMKIIc_zps0db57c95.png)

and here's the little daughterboard for the original vero, to bring it up to "more than loud enough"...

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/SUZYQDAUGHTERBOARD_zps7bbb1860.png)

i will try and fix up the schematic implementing removal of extra parts gus..

what ya see here in this thread is just what's in there now. if i can get the same tone with a few less parts, all the better!!

i wanna try your version too, and see what it sounds like.. i bet yours, mine, mark's and dino's all will sound different from each other!! ;)

if they sound the same...my mind will be blown! ;)

also, any chance you could run your sim with mosfets like i used instead of the high gain transistors?
i believe dino will agree, there's a humongous difference in the sound between tranistors and mosfets in this kind of circuit (like, this was never supposed to have 'em in it!!! lol)

EDIT...DUH!! NEVER FIXED THAT 10P CAP!!! LOL

gus,
i dropped the extra parts you suggested (i think) i DID go with a 1m pulldown after the 500k pot still, cuz i'm anal about that or something.
hopefully this is a little clearer, also added the voltages i got, the supply voltage, and the pot taper.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/SUZYQMKIID_zps6251368a.png)

i think i can start on a vero now for it.

if you sim it, can you do it with mosfets and the values i'm using to see what the waveforms look like please?
thanks.;)

one more quick revision, added a 22k resistor from the bottom of the attack pot to ground, now it acts more like an attack control, and less like a volume control. you can turn the attack and harmonics off and crank just the volume if you want to now, or sweep in whatever amount of "harmonic clipping" is available (depending on transistors used).

this thing is all in one box now, and connected, and it's working great.

here's the updated (hopefully for the last time) schematic:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/SUZYQMKIIE_zpsdec97b33.png)

i have some pics of the guts..it's pretty amusing with all the crud squished in!! ;)

Hi Jim,
my mail man just decided to let my parts go on another round trip, so I couldn't test your photonfuzzOD yet.
But this looks interesting too (if just for suzyQ ;) ). A quick question about the trimmer you added: Why?
I mean, it looks like some selective starve controle as it messes with the bias of the last three stages at once?!

Quote from: deafbutpicky on February 04, 2013, 03:26:09 AM
Hi Jim,
my mail man just decided to let my parts go on another round trip, so I couldn't test your photonfuzzOD yet.
But this looks interesting too (if just for suzyQ ;) ). A quick question about the trimmer you added: Why?
I mean, it looks like some selective starve controle as it messes with the bias of the last three stages at once?!

Quotebut...that said.. it works. it does what it should. the 11k resistor is actually a 10k trimmer and a 1k resistor, but
i don't know how to really draw that, with what i was working with.

I think it was just a lack of 11K resistors...

What I call «Makin`honey outta dogshit».  :icon_mrgreen:

lol...10 k, 11k, trimmer, fixed resistor, doesn't really make a lot of difference.
if ya use a transistor there, it may help. or may not.
;)
i have my pot set half way up, there's minimal tonal change available there, lets ya balance the hiss a little bit, but completely optional.
when my girl goes to work today, i will make a SPT.

this thing @#$%in' screams... it's a very clean clear overdrive into a clean amp, a nice boost into a crunchy one, and icing on the cake into filth.

half way up, it sounds like green river or suzy q.

i'm imagining the transistors used will affect the tone a bit. socket, experiment, repeat.  :icon_mrgreen:

to be fair, i DIDN'T. i plugged in the vn's and liked it so much i never looked back. i really like the sound of mosfets in fuzzes.

this fits my criteria as a fuzz, if only that it is interactive with the guitar, something distortion and most overdrives lack.

stay tuned. ya know, it's ticking me off, i txted pics from my phone to my facebook and my email, and they never arrived. :icon_evil:

time to go off on att again :icon_twisted:

ok, here we gooo, with no furter adieu, the suzy q....



fender cyber deluxe, with reverb and trem (and a little echo here and there)
suzy-q pedal
epiphone pos les paul junior (the neck is off an old epi lp standard tho, very VERY sweet)

all the tonal variations are started off with the attack and harmonic knobs on half, and the volume a little above unity gain.
almost all is turning the guitar volume and tone knobs to various positions.

when i mess with the pedal knobs i try to say what i'm doing. it's long and wanky,
but i tend to get lost in this pedal a bit.

hope you enjoy this episode of stupid pedal tricks. no, you can't have your money back. ;)

got....damn....hippy!!!

made another mistake on the schematic, sorry deafbutpicky, you were right, the powe supply line to the circuit after the trimmer has to be attached at the top of the trimmer, not the bottom, my bad!! SO i'm givin' ya props on the schematic, too. i couldn't have done this with out you three guys, thank you!

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/SUZYQMKIIF_zps0bb2fbfe.png)

i believe this is finally 100% right, thanks to Dino, Deaf, and Gus.

what you hear in the video is the original vero, with add on boost at end on daughterboard, and add on buffer at input on a second daughterboard. it looks pretty cool.

;)

gut shot pron:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/130203_0001_zpsebcafe01.jpg)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/130203_0002_zpsef239dc4.jpg)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/130203_0003_zps53e1e09e.jpg)

Looks like some of my builds, ha! At least you shielded the input/output, something I get lazy with.

Whoa! I like it. Lots.

DON'T BUILD THIS.  sounds great at a low volume, but it's real hissy at stage volumes.

gonna play with it tomorrow.. may need BPT instead of mosfets. they sound great, but wayyyy too noisy :icon_evil:

OK so far, this is what i got... q1, ac176 ge npn, q2  vn2222, q3 ac176 .

sounds the same, but 90% of the hiss is gone, before at stage volume the hiss was almost as loud as the signal when you stopped playing.
totally unacceptable.

i just played it with headphones on, CRANKED so i couldn't escape the noise, and swapped tranistors, jfets, mosfets and anything else i could get my hands on in there.

it sounds great with three ac176, but it's QUIETEST with the vn2222 mosfet in q2.

i'd reccomend socketing transistors, and experimenting until you find the right transistors for YOUR ear.

lower gain lower noise transistors in q1 and q3 i think are a must.
this thing is freaking LOUD now, way, way louder than with the mosfets alone.

it has enough balls, a tone control could be easily implemented, unity gain is about 8:30 now, and by half way up, it is SLAMMIN the amp.
right now, it's slammin it and the noise i think is acceptable.

i'll gig with it tomorrow and report back... if it does ok live, i'll say go for it.

sorry for the over-exuberance, this thing really sounds boss to me. now that the noise is mostly gone, i'll be much happier with it i think.

work in progress... stay tune. ;)

yay, at least I could be useful here.
There's some sweet tone in it again, breadboardtime... (sometime...)
I'll try some low hfe si transistors for q1 and q2, as it is a big step
for me to go  ge on the diodes already. One at a time ;)

yah,
low si will work fine.

use whatever npn's you have, and you'll be ok.

as i discovered, the high gain (i mean, the mosfets were off the chart for my meter) sound great...very amp-y.

but that @#$%in' hiss had to go. i thought it may be the 741, but it was the mosfets.

the good news? with bipolar transistors in it, it sounds just as good as the video, same kinda tone, but probably twice as much output.

i tried it with 2n2222's....not bad. noise went down by half or more. same with 3904's, mps6515,  2sc828 and a couple others.

but the magic combo was the two ge's and the mosfet.

i have completely unrealistic expectations, so don't let me put ya off too much!! i play LOUD live quite a bit.. in a studio or home environment at more normal levels, it would probably be fine as it was.

last nite at rehearsal, i played thru a tiny vintage pignose 30/60. it was pretty much pegged, and noisy, which exacerbated the noise issue.

last nite, i tried it thru clean crunch and dirt modes, with and without compression (to make it hissier) and noise gating(to forcibly create artifacts) and it seemed to be fine.

tell ya what, you can probably drive a speaker with this thing alone. ;)

no, i haven't tried it yet. ;)

Yea, tell me about mosfet issues...
I came up with a circuit using 12 cmos gain stages (3 Band high gain), but what the heck, if it sounds good
only the tone remains and I'm not too picky in this concern.

btw:
I was quite stunned to hear Mood For a Day from you and in this context. So much for got carried away... ;D

;)

AND mood for a day was with the box on, and the guitar rolled way down.

i love the sound of the mosfets quiet, but screw it, they are NOT NECESSARY to keep the tone the same.

i've gotta bunch of low hfe transistors i've ordered, npn silicons. if i find a readily available product that works well, i'll post it.

pretty much once we find the "right" silicons, it'll be easy to standardize without having to fine tune each circuit i'd think.

but...that said, it works... so go for it if ya like the clip.

now there's no more noise in the background than there is in bypass. THAT'S what i needed to say it's good.

mmmmmmOk......

so i took this thing out tuesday and last nite and used it live... thru my cyber twin tuesday, and cyber deluxe last nite.

it worked great. i used it in a small effect chain, guitar> toneblaster fuzz> dunlop "hendrix" wah >suzy q > boss be5 multi (just used for noise gate, delay, and vibrato).

had a local amp maker legend come jam (tom stankiewicz, "cotton amplifiers") and HE was impressed. all the tone came from the two dirt pedals, and i left 'em both on all nite.
all i had to do was turn my guitar up and down, and got everything i needed out of them.

the noise issue was damped (with the last set of transistors, a 470p cap from input of output pot to ground nuked any misc noise) finally, i'd say it worked out great,
so IF you get brave and decide to build this, please let me know.

as an extra added bonus, for the guys who like very noisy fuzzes, if you want a total buzzsaw fuzz with ZERO noise, invert q3 in it's socket.. and you'll get a crazy noise gate effect with a very broken fuzz that sounds like gargling with glass, yet still has a decent sustain!!

so... i would call this verified. thanks to all who helped me come up with it!!!

Was there a vero for the latest version?

hey strat,
nope, not yet. i'll try to whip one up later, i gotta go dig my cars outta a couple feet of snow.  :icon_eek:

my friend Vot on another forum built it, and made a VERIFIED layout for vero:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/file_zps1ad3480c.gif)

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/file_zps498e6dce.gif)

he added a q3 trimmer, and made it so it has 4 hole transistor sockets... can use either ecb or ebc!!

thanks Vot!!

Awesome! Thanks!!

let me know when it's built!!  :icon_mrgreen:

I just tore down a non functional 1971 Lowrey Genie Organ. I'm hoping it has some good GE transistors in it. As soon as I get parts from there or ordered, I'll tell you how the build goes.

cool! they probably don't even have to be ge's...i bet 2n3904's would work.
the gain wasn't as important i don't think (HA! ME think!! lol)....as the noise.
low noise transistors are probably best.
it should be PLENTY loud.
i run mine about 9:00, any more than that and it's just too loud. it's excellent that way. ;)

Hey,
I got my parts finally and put it on the breadboard yesterday. I used bs170s mosfets and 1n34a diodes.
It really gave me a good fight at first. Squeal, hiss and what not, it just didn't stop shouting at me.
Swapping the fets made it even worse, I tried 3904, 3903, bc109c, 2n2222, bc539b but no success.

The main problem is in the first gainstage. The bs170 oscillated and the npn trannys sounded extremely misbiased.

Today I went for round two, messing with some parts around the first and second stage:
instead of the 1k and trimmer I ended up with a 68k. Sounds best and it sets the bias to the values you gave on the schematic.
Less hiss, and finally nomore mermaid squeals.
The 640k in the second stage is replaced with a 1M trimmer, set to 740k to get the 3.54V on the gate. This one is not so critical,
but gives some more bite at your value.

Now you really can get lost in the sound. A tone controle is certainly not necessary. The attack and harmonics pots are really interactive
and there are lots of good tones in them.

One tweak I found: make the 1k and trimmer a 47k and place a 120R and 10µ in parallel between source and ground in the first gain stage
and it's more of a warm distortion. But I Iike the fuzzy bite with higher gain settings in the original, so, just an idea.

Another thing is the last gainstage. The whole thing is way too loud. I don't know if it's essential for the tone and I didn't want to
mess with the original design yet.

So thanks for Suzy, it fun to play with  ;D

Quote from: deafbutpicky on February 17, 2013, 11:39:49 AM
Hey,
I got my parts finally and put it on the breadboard yesterday. I used bs170s mosfets and 1n34a diodes.
It really gave me a good fight at first. Squeal, hiss and what not, it just didn't stop shouting at me.
Swapping the fets made it even worse, I tried 3904, 3903, bc109c, 2n2222, bc539b but no success.

The main problem is in the first gainstage. The bs170 oscillated and the npn trannys sounded extremely misbiased.

Today I went for round two, messing with some parts around the first and second stage:
instead of the 1k and trimmer I ended up with a 68k. Sounds best and it sets the bias to the values you gave on the schematic.
Less hiss, and finally nomore mermaid squeals.
The 640k in the second stage is replaced with a 1M trimmer, set to 740k to get the 3.54V on the gate. This one is not so critical,
but gives some more bite at your value.

Now you really can get lost in the sound. A tone controle is certainly not necessary. The attack and harmonics pots are really interactive
and there are lots of good tones in them.

nice tweaks, thanks for the report bro!! i do find it to be pretty versatile and interactive, glad you got the hissyness worked out!! ;)

Quote
One tweak I found: make the 1k and trimmer a 47k and place a 120R and 10µ in parallel between source and ground in the first gain stage
and it's more of a warm distortion. But I Iike the fuzzy bite with higher gain settings in the original, so, just an idea.

sounds like a great add on mod bro! i'll try it when i build the vero VOT worked up this week.

Quote
Another thing is the last gainstage. The whole thing is way too loud.

dude....it's a pedal from ME...jimi "wall of sound" photon!!!!
seriously, yes, it's LOUD. nigel tufnel would approve..
but dig this... turn the attack and harmonic controls to minimum, and crank the level pot.
now you have a classic overdrive preamp...and you can add in a little of the attack and harmonic controls and give any tube amp a serious wallop and slam the input stage HARD. just gives ya more possibilities. you could probably use it as a front end into a power amp if you had to. ;)

Quote
I don't know if it's essential for the tone and I didn't want to
mess with the original design yet.

totally not essential...it's  there cuz if you use the VN2222's they need the extra output stage at the end, or it's just below unity gain.
did you vero this, use your own or vots? or did you make a pcb?

Quote
So thanks for Suzy, it fun to play with  ;D

i am honored you like it bro!!!
thanks for verifying it, too!!!

Nah, stuck it on the breadboard, as I have some projects I'd like to try atm and the weather here
makes paintjobs on  boxes hard anyway. Just try to overcome my ignorance at ge and it's fun
to play with some smaller circuits weekends, as I'm short of time the last weeks.

The use as booster is a point I didn't think of, you're right. As I play into a transistoramp
and let my pedals do the dirty work.

Still have to try your other fuzz/od and there are some things I'd still like to try with this one,
(the transistor swap mystery for example) but I'm pretty shure I'll make this circuit a proper
home/case sometime. Probably call it pink suzy photon  8)

Drew up another stripboard layout using Rev. F schematic and posted it on the blog (http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.fi/). Thought i'd share it here too.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hebGe2Za5tQ/USEhRvRvmlI/AAAAAAAAB0Q/rtJe95b28EE/s1600/Jimi-Photon-Suzy-Q-MKII.png (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hebGe2Za5tQ/USEhRvRvmlI/AAAAAAAAB0Q/rtJe95b28EE/s1600/Jimi-Photon-Suzy-Q-MKII.png)

Quote from: deafbutpicky on February 17, 2013, 01:25:51 PM
Nah, stuck it on the breadboard, as I have some projects I'd like to try atm and the weather here
makes paintjobs on  boxes hard anyway. Just try to overcome my ignorance at ge and it's fun
to play with some smaller circuits weekends, as I'm short of time the last weeks.

The use as booster is a point I didn't think of, you're right. As I play into a transistoramp
and let my pedals do the dirty work.

Still have to try your other fuzz/od and there are some things I'd still like to try with this one,
(the transistor swap mystery for example) but I'm pretty shure I'll make this circuit a proper
home/case sometime. Probably call it pink suzy photon  8)

LMAO!!! LOVE IT!!!! find a graphic of a fat old hippy in a tutu!! ;)

Quote from: mirosol on February 17, 2013, 01:34:31 PM
Drew up another stripboard layout using Rev. F schematic and posted it on the blog (http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.fi/). Thought i'd share it here too.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hebGe2Za5tQ/USEhRvRvmlI/AAAAAAAAB0Q/rtJe95b28EE/s1600/Jimi-Photon-Suzy-Q-MKII.png) (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hebGe2Za5tQ/USEhRvRvmlI/AAAAAAAAB0Q/rtJe95b28EE/s1600/Jimi-Photon-Suzy-Q-MKII.png)

i am so honored to have one of my designs posted on this blog, it's one of the best resources for DIY guitar pedal builders on the planet!! thanks Miroslav and IvIark!
miro, this is a BEAUTIFUL layout, and small!! i love it!! thanks so much!!!! ;)

EDIT: i changed miro's link so it would display the picture..click on it to visit the blog!

miroslav at tagboardeffects.blogspot.com also did a vero of this up,
i built it today...
here's the post i just made there. his layout is built and verified, it has two minor mistakes i'm sure will be fixed soon.

ok, it's built, and running.
that track cut at d14 needs to be removed *NOT AT D9, DUH~~!!, and the jumper from b3 to d3 needs to be removed. (in other words, if you made the track cut, jumper it, or no b+ to q2!!)
and then it works, and great. sounds just like my original, a little less noise (as to be expected)...beware!! them vn2222's blow out EASY...so don't forget to power down when trying different transistors!!
fwiw, on this one, i ended up with mpsa13 in q1, ac176 in q2, and vn2222 in q3. bias trimpot about 1/2 way up. socket your transistors, and see what sounds best to you.
on this build, the transistors are slightly different than on the original, but pretty much i think any npn's will work. you know you've got it when the attack and harmonic knobs are half way up, and the volume is about 9 o'clock. should be a little louder than unity, and sound like green river, or suzy q by creedence.
i'll post voltages tomorrow, late for tonite's gig!!
miro.. nice job on the vero!! undo them two little mistakes, and you can call it verified.

I'm still waiting on parts. Good to know, thanks.

ok, first, here's the corrected vero...hope ya don't mind, miro!

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/Jimi-Photon-Suzy-Q-MKII_zps1edebec9.png)

i went thru and took voltage readings. like i said, i tend to just stuff transistors in arbitrarily, until i like something.
sometimes any old transistor will work. sometimes not.

also.. think of all three transistor locations as being cbe, from top to bottom. i didn't lay this thing out originally as dsg or anything. ;)

so anyways..

voltages, with a fresh 9v alkaline : 9.66v

q1, mpsa13 npn hfe unknown.. went higher than my meter reads.

e 0.0
b 1.18
c 1.38

q2, npn germanium, AC176 hfe: 140 @9ma leakage

e 3.63
b 3.71
c 8.40

q3, vn2222 n channel mosfet, hfe: 1,074

e .10
b 1.83
c 1.87

ok, i'm building one of these things for my friend dick.
he wanted a tone control, so i added one.
i tried the stupidly wonderful tone control, and couldn't get it and my circuit to make sweet electron love.
also tried the bmp one. same thing.
so i figured i'd try something really simple, just a basic parallel tone control, like in a guitar. i had good luck with it in my stiff hippy II 386 overdriver.

it works great. at least in this circuit. rolls off the treble leaves the mids intact, doesn't get too muddy. a/b'd it, and full up doesnt seem to suck volume OR tone.

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/SUZYQMKIIG_zps05fc2734.png)

here's WITH the stupid pedal trick tone control:

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evqTyXKRjSE)

The link at upper left corner is for connecting the 1M resistor from Q2 gate to drain. I'm just wondering about the fate of that resistor as it is in the rev. G schematic..

Should i remove the resistor from the layout? It connects to nothing without the link...

hmmmmm, weird..
on the vero, looking at it, is there supposed to be a track cut at b4?  cuz then the link would be between d and g. right now, it's between g and b of q2.
that's actually what i built, which does work. interesting. i built the vero layout you made and ommitted that one track cut to get power to q2, and i thought that 1m looked weird. if there's a track cut at b4, tho, that would match the schematic correctly.
the weird thing is that the one i built from this layout works, and sounds like the original one...as shown on the schematic.
so i'd imagine it would need one more track cut at b4, and that jumper replaced. cuz right now, it has b of q3 connected to g of q2 via that 1 m resistor in the upper left, and i know my eyes are off a little right now from working on crap all day, but i don't think there's supposed to be a connection there. a track cut at b4 would separate them..
take a look and let me know what YOU see please miro.
i mean.. it seems to work either way. that may be why pete's build the bias control thing wasn't working right.

EDIT... i think something's messed up here with my interpretation.. i need sleep, will sort this out!!

Hehehe... I'm assuming you'll post the "final" schematic in a few days :D I'll revise the layout then. I'm putting it back on "unverified" and "on hold" for now...
+m

thanks miro!
ok, after looking at tagboard, the one track cut at d14 was THE only mistake.
i'm not used to looking at veros from the underside, so i missed that there was a track cut at b4 already, which i DID add.

so effectively, dick's fuzz has only the 10p cap between b and c, as the 1m resistor isn't attached on the other end.
curious.
it sounds good that way, tho it was a lot pickier about transistors!! damn.. now i guess i know why.
sadly, it's shipped. i doubt he'll ship it back so i can fix it, tho i think i'll ask.
supposed to meet him next month at a book signing in boston, maybe i'll bring a little wire and an iron and ask if he can bring it with him. ;)

will have the revised schem soon. sorry for the confusion!!

Nah. It's ok. I'll bring back the link and post it corrected on the blog :) The extra cut blocking the voltage was corrected earlier.
+m

AWESOME, thanks miro!!
i'm gonna build another one, and experiment with a switch adding/removing that resistor. it may just end up being another tonal option, which i'd have never found without YOU, so thanks bro!!

this is the one i'd built to miro's original layout. the 1m resistor on q2 has been removed, (you can use it or not, depending on transistors used apparently) and the simple treble shelf control (labeled philter on the box) added.

slightly different circuit, but not "intentionally" verified yet. this is what i built, and it indeed works, i think it sounds fine... but..

i don't wanna call it "verified" (this version at least) until i can build one and make sure it's cool.

if someone could run a circuit sim, i'd be eternally grateful!!

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/SUZYQMKiiiA_zpsaf58d2de.png)

there's a bit of stuff regarding this going on here:
http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2013/02/jimi-photon-suzy-q-mkii.html?showComment=1362513969176#c8786517816226828828

if anyone is interested. peace out

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/likesit_zps2baebe10.png)

i am gonna be grinning for like, forever.
;)

jimmy's on the left:
(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Waynes-World-Were-not-Worthy.gif)

dude... yep!!!   :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:

Quote from: Gus on February 02, 2013, 11:36:31 AM
If I wanted more gain and a lowpass filter.  I would build something like the following.
I would remove the follower stage and make it a controlled/designed gain stage (about x10 as shown gain can be adjusted).
and place the lowpass between the stages (output resistance of the first stage,R14 and C7) Increase or decrease C7 for lowpass
adjust coupling caps values for highpass frequencies

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=48645&g2_serialNumber=1)

Also I don't like the first stage biasing of the first stage of this fuzz(grounded emitter with only a C to B resistor) I would use the C to B and B to ground type biasing like you find in a BMP IF you want the feedback from C to B.  This is more predictable without selecting a hfe of the transistor.

gus's idea, as in post #29 realized in vero:

(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt137/pinkjimiphoton/adjustedsimplefuzzveropresuzyq_zpse2450742.png)

I totally forgot to put this up here:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/268801649/suzyQ_mk2-f.png)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/268801649/suzyQ.jpg)

It's a bit noisy but this maybe due to the BS170s and the low bias on them. Well it sounds too good, so I don't dare
to mess with it at this point... :icon_mrgreen:

try adding the tone control, it may take enough of the hiss out.

on mine, the hiss ain't bad unless ya goose the attack and gain knobs... i run them half up usually, and the volume just cracked, about 9:00 seems to be unity
beautiful layout bro, thanks so much!!

that enclosure is f'n sick, too!!   :icon_mrgreen:

thanks too, I'll give it a go later on. Fine tweaks usually come after playing it for a while once you hit the sweet spot for me
and this was spot on.

I'm diggin' further into delta blues atm and stacking this (with mictester's secret sauce [with mods] in front occasionally) gives me some goose bumps...

nekro bump:

this is the only pedal that has been continuously on my pedalboard other than my fuzzface and wah since 2013. damn ;)

and yes, tone report weekly ripped it off. i'm not gonna get into that bullshit.

but this has been ridiculously versatile, for me anyways.
rock on

Alex was nice enough to do a vero of it over at Tagboard recently too. You might want to check it out and let him know if the version he drew up is the final cut.

yeah i saw that. that was what led me back here. i'd have to look at it good, it's not the rev g final version i made for dick wagner.
i expelled some butthurt about it and asked them to apply the PjP tag to it. screw nick kula, screw tone report.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/25kkm0y.jpg)

made it brighter, louder, less gated, and a hell of a lot gainier.
i use a vn2222 mosfet for q1, a GE ac176 for q2, and a 5088 for q3
also added the tone control from my monkey balls pedal, which implements a feedback loop and "fake variable cap" to attenuate some of the highs without @#$%ing up the gain too badly.

removed the ge diode clipper between stages 2 and 3, it just killed the circuit too much. i've learned a bit since the original one i think. i moved it to the output of the circuit, and so far prefer either schotke's or plain old 914's. you may wanna either add a switch between the clipper and ground, or a resistance.. a 100k trimmer would let you dial in how much clipping occurs.

upped the gain of the chip, so now instead of 2x gain max, its more like 4 or 5x gain. the harmonics control really makes a difference now, and it can get VERY fuzzy. or can be turned all the way down if need be or for more of an amp sim kinda sound.

bumped up the final stage's gain substantially by changing the e resistor from 2.2k to 47r. you could also just ground it directly, but you probably don't need that much gain.

ditched the pair of caps between stages 2 and 3 as well, and made it a single .022 cap. .047 and .039 in series works out to almost exactly .022. go figure. ;)

switched around a couple components in the power supply as well, added another diode (yeah i know but i prefer this way... nothing tends to blow up, where as with a series diode the diode can fail and often does. by adding a reverse biased one to ground too an overvoltage or opposite polarity will just shunt to ground and nothing blows up)

added a bigger rfi cap to the power supply as well, and moved the ripple "choke" resistor.

i ditched ALL the @#$%in snubber caps. no need for them. when i was testing stuff thru a little teeny amp, yeah, they sounded great to my ear at the time, but they really robbed the circuit of life pretty bad so i ditched all of them. the tone control works really nicely to do the exact same thing now anyways, so they were all unneccessary. the 100k feedback resistor on the chip you may wanna add a small treble peaker too, but i don't think its likely necessary.

so anyways... here ya go. the suzy q mk III kustom harmonic clipper

if ya set the attack about half, the harmonics about 1/4 and the volume about 10:00 it still really nails that green river sound, and if ya turn your guitar down its total suzy q.

but if ya crank the attack and harmonics knobs, it very much becomes a very "harmonic slurry" kind of fuzztone and can get ugly in a kinda beautiful way. the tone control can tame it down.

should have enough balls to kick any amp into overdrive.

put a fuzzface before this thing and be in guitar volume knob heaven. feels plays and sounds like you're playing thru a great classic amp.

funny, me ditching germanium from a circuit, huh? ;)

anyways... come meet the new hoss... similar to the old hoss, but more hoss power.

if ya build it and ya diggit, let me know. i'll try and lay out a vero at some point

peace

Hi,

Thanks a lot, mister Photon!


Does anybody have done a vero version for the MK III? I'd like to try it a lot !!!!

hey bro,
mr photon? who's that? i'm just jimi, my peeps call me pink ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/V0egJSb.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/MCBJWKj.png)

i think i already replied to this on tagboard to ya... i ended up abandoning the project and never finished the mkIII. the vero above was the final version released back in the day, if ya want the tone knob, look at the schem. peace!

Hi Jimmy,
Thanks a lor for your both answers, here and on Tagboardeffects.

What are those "switch 1A" and "switch 1B"  wires ? They are not on Miro's vero.

miro did this vero ;)

looks like it lets ya bypass the buffer, but i would have to really trace out the  vero. remember, the vero is as looking at it from the trace side in the bottom half of the pic...its not looking thru the board like most.

sorry can't be more help.

Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on April 24, 2020, 08:03:20 PM
miro did this vero ;)

That's what I thought, but the switch was missing on Tagboard  :icon_mrgreen:

I'll try this! I am a huge CCR fan, and I want to reach that specific fuzz sound.

By the way, do you know if anyone tried to isolate the other effects  of the K200-A4? Specialy vibrato and tremolo?

i have the preamp of an old k150 set up for standalone use just for the trem/vibe. haven't gotten around to anything else. these things take time