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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: chromesphere on June 04, 2013, 01:22:08 AM

Title: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 04, 2013, 01:22:08 AM
Hi everyone,
In my recent build report (Youtube channel) for the 'prismatic reverb' aka dead astronaut flying saucer reverb i mentioned that i used a tantalum in place of a film cap for a 1uf capacitor as i didnt have any 1uf films on hand.  These were 12c each.  Haveyouseenhim (mike) on this forum suggested it is a multi layer ceramic but i dont believe it is.  There is a seperate section on the Tayda site for those.  This one DEFINITELY came from the tantalum section.

So the questions.
1) as it's not popalrised does that mean its a non-polar tantalum?  I know you can get NP tants.  But would this be one? Or something else entirely!?
2) it was cheap 12c.  Can we use these instead of 1uf films that can cost 2x or 3x more.  And can you use them in any application?  I had no trouble with in my reverb.

Im fairly certain its just a NP tant, and im fairly certain you could use it whereever without problems, but i thought i would ask the experts.  Heres a link to the cap:

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/tantalum-capacitors/1uf-50v-radial-tantalum-capacitor.html

Cheers,
Paul
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: psychedelicfish on June 04, 2013, 01:41:36 AM
My suggestion is:
Buy a whole load of them. Get a 60V (or more) power supply. Hook them up directly across it (outside). Stand back, and if they explode violently, they're tantalums. If they have some kind of polarity marking on them (even just one lead longer than the other) hook one up to the power supply with what you think is the positive side to the positive end of the supply, and the negative to the negative. Time how long it takes for it to explode, and record the data, along with the polarity. Do the same, but with the opposite polarity. Record the time and polarity. Repeat a few more times until you have some reliable data.
 ;D
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 04, 2013, 01:44:09 AM
There is no marking on the capacitor and no lead length difference.

So these CAN NOT be non polar tantalums?  They HAVE TO BE tantalums?  and i LOVE TO USE caps lock?

Edit, Haveyouseenhim just pointed out the lead lenght in the photos on tayda, hah!  Maybe i just didnt notice when i solder it in.

Anyway, onto question 2:

Can you use a 1uf tantalum willy nilly in place of a 1uf film cap?

Edit again: Ahhh!  There was a recent thread about cap polarity.  I remember the advise was bascially dont use them in the signal path because the polarity is not straight forward, plus or minus.

Paul
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: armdnrdy on June 04, 2013, 01:53:21 AM
I've ordered and installed the tantalum capacitors from Tayda and they are definitely polarized.

If you look closely, you'll see that one lead is longer than the other and on that side of the cap there is a + sign indicating......positive.

Tayda doesn't stock any non polarized caps except for ceramic, poly box type, poly "greenies,"  and a small amount of multi layer ceramics.

I wish they at least stocked 1f non polar electrolytics!

Edit:
Looks like Paul posted as I was writing.
One other scenario is that you ordered  tants and they sent you multi layers.
I ordered (3) 2PDT footswitches and they sent (3) green knobs! They came in a bag with the proper switch part number sticker on it.
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 04, 2013, 01:56:46 AM
I've ordered and installed the tantalum capacitors from Tayda and they are definitely polarized.

If you look closely, you'll see that one lead is longer than the other and on that side of the cap there is a + sign indicating......positive.

Tayda doesn't stock any non polarized caps except for ceramic, poly box type, poly "greenies,"  and a small amount of multi layer ceramics.

I wish they at least stocked 1f non polar electrolytics!

Ill have to double check but im SURE i didnt see a + sign...then again I didnt notice the freaking lead size difference either so anythings possible at this point....ill check them out tonight.

Paul
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: Rethfing on June 04, 2013, 03:39:11 AM
The cap you posted link about is different than the one you show in your latest video. This one in the video is actually tantalum, but the one in video is ceramic KCM.
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 04, 2013, 03:40:01 AM
Ok so heres a photo of the cap.

I looked up A-321 and it looks like its a monolithic!!  pretty sure I ordered a tant....oh well, case closed.

(http://www.chromesphere.com/x/pedal/tant.jpg)


SO.  Do you guys use <MONOLITHIC> caps in place of 1uf films?   Anything to be concerned of?  Harsh tone?  Insult to the tone gods?

Paul
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: IvIark on June 04, 2013, 03:40:33 AM
These are good, cheap and non-polar alternatives to 1u film caps, I use these quite a lot where the film cap would be physically too large to fit comfortably in the space:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250879684670
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: Rethfing on June 04, 2013, 03:42:17 AM
I also used them couple of times and heard no difference. I even used normal polarized electrolytic cap in place of those and the pedals still worked fine. I heard a statement once on this forum: "Caps are caps", and I stick to it :D
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 04, 2013, 03:45:54 AM
The cap you posted link about is different than the one you show in your latest video. This one in the video is actually tantalum, but the one in video is ceramic KCM.

Yep, its confirmed!  Hah, there you go!  

Checked the order, apparently that's what I ordered!  

What a mess up...sorry everyone for the confusion.

Paul
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: armdnrdy on June 04, 2013, 03:22:27 PM
Don't let it happen again!  ;D
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: R.G. on June 04, 2013, 08:28:56 PM
I'd never seen NP tantalum, so I went off looking. Didn't find any. I'm sure it's possible.

I also checked prices. Mouser wants US$0.39 for a 1uF 35V tantalum and... yep, $0.39 for a 1uF/63V film cap. 1uF/25-50V ceramic in epoxy dipped radial is $0.15-$0.45 in ones.

The surface mount parts are significantly cheaper for tantalum and ceramic.
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: armdnrdy on June 04, 2013, 09:27:12 PM
I'd never seen NP tantalum, so I went off looking. Didn't find any. I'm sure it's possible.

Google first try:
http://www.vishay.com/docs/49054/49054_sg2160.pdf

Look though the PDF, there are several different part numbers that are available in polar or non polar.
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: Jdansti on June 05, 2013, 12:17:40 AM
I got some 1μF poly boxes from somewhere.

(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/jdansti/B9ED8815-A748-4702-AE04-1A315736DB9F-7697-000008B6B046EDB8.jpg)
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: armdnrdy on June 05, 2013, 12:31:17 AM
Those are very nice caps John....but now you have posted partial finger prints on the internet!

A crafty individual can now make replicas of your prints....leave those prints at the scene of a crime to implicate someone else!

Guess who that someone else is??????


Do you know a good criminal attorney?  :o
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: Jdansti on June 05, 2013, 03:22:21 AM
^ I tend to look at it the other way 'round. Now I can commit crimes and blame it on some guy on DIYSB who replicated and planted my fingerprints!   :P
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 05, 2013, 03:44:19 AM
OK John, what if I use your finger prints to break into your house and steal your caps?  That's going to be difficult to explain to the cops hah?

;-)
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: armdnrdy on June 05, 2013, 06:25:45 AM
OK John, what if I use your finger prints to break into your house and steal your caps?  That's going to be difficult to explain to the cops hah?

;-)

Especially since John lives in Texas and you live in Australia! 
No one in their right mind would ever believe that someone would pay for the airfare from Australia to Texas and break into a house to steal $2.00 worth of capacitors!

Although stranger things have happened!  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 05, 2013, 06:39:23 AM
Well I ordered monolithics without realising so yeah, I'm a Crazy Aussie :D
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: Jdansti on June 05, 2013, 08:11:39 AM
Let me know when you plan to break into my house and I'll make sure that my wife isn't home at the time. We would miss you on the forum!   :icon_cry:
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: deadastronaut on June 05, 2013, 08:13:37 AM
ok, i got in touch with my  fingerprint specialist buddy at MI5

he ran johns fingerprints through extensive professional software used by interpol and came up with this..

he reckons its an exact match, and can be used as a direct replacement for johns finger tips..(actual size)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/johnsprints.jpg)

he also supplied me with a retina scan of johns eyes...amazing what they can do nowdays from just fingerprints... ;D

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/johnseyes.jpg)
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: bluebunny on June 05, 2013, 08:26:54 AM
I am genuinely scared by technology these days.   :o

.
.
.

 :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 05, 2013, 08:32:53 AM

he also supplied me with a retina scan of johns eyes...amazing what they can do nowdays from just fingerprints... ;D

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7464107/johnseyes.jpg)

His eyes!  Thanks for clarifying that...  :o

haha
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: Jdansti on June 05, 2013, 09:28:10 AM
Amazing accuracy!!!   ;D

(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/jdansti/06E51925-8EC7-4146-9AB8-729BB354B0D4-8096-0000096499804F0C.jpg)
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: duck_arse on June 05, 2013, 12:06:05 PM
Quote
Now I can commit crimes and blame it on some guy on DIYSB who replicated and planted my fingerprints!

if I plant your fingertips, wot will I grow? wot if wot grows goes and does crimes, with your fingertips? etc

I wish we had a local source of 1uF poly's for only 39c. 95c at jaycar .....
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: Jdansti on June 05, 2013, 02:50:23 PM
Quote
Now I can commit crimes and blame it on some guy on DIYSB who replicated and planted my fingerprints!

if I plant your fingertips, wot will I grow? wot if wot grows goes and does crimes, with your fingertips? etc

I wish we had a local source of 1uF poly's for only 39c. 95c at jaycar .....

If you don't mind waiting, Tayda has them for $0.21 US.

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/1uf-100v-5-polyester-film-box-type-capacitor.html
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 05, 2013, 08:02:36 PM
Quote
Now I can commit crimes and blame it on some guy on DIYSB who replicated and planted my fingerprints!

if I plant your fingertips, wot will I grow? wot if wot grows goes and does crimes, with your fingertips? etc

I wish we had a local source of 1uF poly's for only 39c. 95c at jaycar .....

Its not all bad news at jaycar though duckarse....they have 3pdt's for an amazing $9!!
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: deadastronaut on June 06, 2013, 04:07:48 AM
Amazing accuracy!!!   ;D



 :D  see, thats the digital world for ya!..bang on.. ;)

Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: Ibanezsr500 on June 06, 2013, 07:25:18 PM
Quote from: chromesphere

Its not all bad news at jaycar though duckarse....they have 3pdt's for an amazing $9!!

Your jacyar store is CHEAP. Mine has the 3PDT footswitches for $11.95.  :o
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: chromesphere on June 06, 2013, 10:26:44 PM
Oh yeah thats right!  12 bucks!  Been such a long time hahahaha
Paul
Title: Re: 1uf Non-Polar Tantalum Capacitors - replacement for expensive films?
Post by: duck_arse on June 07, 2013, 08:10:20 AM
well, seeing as I don't use 3pdt cause I gots some 20 x X-wing (is that what you call them?) dpdt for $2.50 each from Rockby ...........

and by local, I mean I can catch the bus there.