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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: armdnrdy on November 06, 2013, 12:08:12 AM

Title: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 06, 2013, 12:08:12 AM
Finally got around to getting a short sample video together of the Mutron Flanger clone.

Thanks go out to all that helped in the process! Special thanks go to Ian (ronan), Federico (fender3D), R.G. (who can never be thanked enough for sharing his wisdom) Oh yeah...did I forget someone? My partner in crime on this project. Dino (digi2T)





Complete project files coming soon.






Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: digi2t on November 06, 2013, 07:40:24 AM
Well, I would say that we can stick a fork in that one. :icon_mrgreen:

Sounds amazing! The section starting at 3:11 is especially striking. An almost vocal like quality. Combined with the BMP, it`s got a really nice jet engine sound. Although I haven`t plugged in to the original in several weeks, from memory I would say it`s on par, or even slightly better sounding than the original. I`ll reiterate, the 3:11 section of the video really got my attention. I didn`t hear any ticking either, so I`m assuming that you really nipped that in the bud. Have you made any changes in the PCB layout to compensate for that?

Bravo my friend... bravo, indeed!  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 06, 2013, 07:50:05 AM
Although I cannot currently see or hear the video... all I can say is WOW!

I am off to sit in a corner with my smartphone and see this!  8)

WANT... WANT.... WANT...!!!

Thanks for ALL of the hard work in bringing this to life Larry! Class act!!!  ;)

EDIT: Just watched...... MUST HAVE!!!! Sweet demo  8)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Mark Hammer on November 06, 2013, 08:29:52 AM
VERY nice.  IN particular, the feedback/resonance is not clangey at all.

Made with a Reticon, or some other BBD?
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: digi2t on November 06, 2013, 10:32:13 AM
VERY nice.  IN particular, the feedback/resonance is not clangey at all.

Made with a Reticon, or some other BBD?

This reincarnation has been brought to you by the MN3007. :icon_mrgreen:

Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 06, 2013, 11:42:10 AM
VERY nice.  IN particular, the feedback/resonance is not clangey at all.

Hey Mark,

I agree. This flanger design is very "musical" at all settings.

The sound sample I posted doesn't even begin to showcase the multitude of sounds possible!

Unlike many flanger designs, the feedback path has no trimpot for adjustment...which means that the designer chose the amount of resonance which seems to be just right.

Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Fender3D on November 07, 2013, 01:06:08 PM
Great work Larry,
nice demo and sound...


Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 07, 2013, 01:31:29 PM
#waitingforhoundstobereleased  ;D
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: GodSaveMetal on November 07, 2013, 08:02:41 PM
Is It on MN3007 BBD based; great I WANT I WAN`A flanger!!!!!  :icon_mrgreen:  please I waiting for all you have to do one for me!! :icon_eek: please post IT!!! all you have THANKS!!!  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: UKToecutter on November 08, 2013, 09:07:23 AM
That's superb.
Great video Larry.
I've got to build myself one of those!!!!
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: wavley on November 08, 2013, 11:05:25 AM
Even though it very much reminds me of my Tel-Ray/Morley PFL, I WANT I WANT I WANT!!!!
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 08, 2013, 05:47:45 PM
Thanks all for the compliments....this was a team effort!

I'm working on a work alike for the original 25KA custom taper, special order rate pot that Mutron used.

Right now the slow rate is a bit bunched up. (I used a 25KC pot)

Dino supplied resistances at the 10 points of the original rate pot and I'm working on reproducing it with a 50KB pot and tapering resistors.

So far it looks very promising!
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Tonemonger on November 09, 2013, 04:25:03 AM
Yeah Wavley - That's the first thing I thought too !
I used to jam with a guy that had a Morley ( by far the longest sweep I've ever heard ).

I didn't even know I needed another flanger ?
Absolutely stellar work by all involved.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: StephenGiles on November 09, 2013, 05:54:25 AM
Wonderful demo Larry.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: jdub on November 09, 2013, 09:54:49 AM
Superb work, guys! 
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 09, 2013, 07:39:27 PM
Okay!

I worked out the custom log taper rate pot issue.

A 50K linear pot with a 110K resistor strapped between lugs 2 & 3 and a 5.6K resistor between lugs 1 & 2.

Makes for a brand new 25K 18% log taper pot. Very close to the original and sounding great!
The rate adjustment is very even across it's range with no jumps, or bunched up areas.  :icon_biggrin:

Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 09, 2013, 08:38:31 PM
Okay!

I worked out the custom log taper rate pot issue.

A 50K linear pot with a 110K resistor strapped between lugs 2 & 3 and a 5.6K resistor between lugs 1 & 2.

Makes for a brand new 25K 18% log taper pot. Very close to the original and sounding great!
The rate adjustment is very even across it's range with no jumps, or bunched up areas.  :icon_biggrin:



WOW... Going the EXTRA mile on this one Larry!  :icon_eek:

CANNOT WAIT TO GET THIS BUILT!!!!!!  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: digi2t on November 09, 2013, 08:56:16 PM
This guy is a freakin`warrior.

It`s been an honor to fight by his side.

For those about to flange, we salute you. (Sounds kinda corny, I know. But, I mean it.) :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: GodSaveMetal on November 09, 2013, 09:03:02 PM
Okay!

I worked out the custom log taper rate pot issue.

A 50K linear pot with a 110K resistor strapped between lugs 2 & 3 and a 5.6K resistor between lugs 1 & 2.

Makes for a brand new 25K 18% log taper pot. Very close to the original and sounding great!
The rate adjustment is very even across it's range with no jumps, or bunched up areas.  :icon_biggrin:





WOW... Going the EXTRA mile on this one Larry!  :icon_eek:

CANNOT WAIT TO GET THIS BUILT!!!!!!  :icon_twisted:

ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 15, 2013, 12:52:50 AM
Putting together a project file for this seemed like a lot of work so....I just borrowed my Sisters Easy Bake Oven assembly instructions and added a couple of electronics terms.

Good luck with the build!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/Pedal%20Flanger%20Build%20Document.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/Pedal%20Flanger%20Build%20Document.pdf)

Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 15, 2013, 09:01:42 AM
WOW!!!  :icon_eek:  :icon_eek:  :icon_eek:

Blown away Larry. Thank you so very much for all of the hard work!

Cant wait to get this going. Gotta find some FR4 big enough now  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: digi2t on November 15, 2013, 09:50:31 AM
Outstanding piece of work Larry. Truly humbling.

It was an absolute treat to work with you on this baby. A collaboration worthy of the Ludwig Award.  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Mark Hammer on November 15, 2013, 10:53:00 AM
Larry is an absolute wolverine when it comes to involved projects, ain't he?  Once he sinks his teeth into it, he doesn't let go until it's DONE!  :icon_biggrin:

The ECG1641 is an MN3007 substitute, right, not a 3207 sub?  If I'm right, and despite the fact that I have too damn many flangers already, I may have to give this one a crack.  I am willing to sacrifice my Morley power wah for the cause.  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 15, 2013, 11:51:18 AM
Gotta find some FR4 big enough now 

I used MG Chemicals 512 (6" X 9" 1/16" FR4) for the prototype.

Mouser stocks it at a reasonable price.

I included it with my order of:   
Piher trimmers
1.5f tant
10f bipolar elects
330Ω 1/2 watt resistor

Except for the long pin pots, (Mammoth or Small Bear) You should be able to find everything else at Tayda.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 15, 2013, 11:58:58 AM
The ECG1641 is an MN3007 substitute, right, not a 3207 sub?

Correct

I may have to give this one a crack.  

Shouldn't you finish your Hyperflange build first?  :icon_wink:

I have a bit of a build backlog going now but.....I've been working with the ADA STD-1 factory docs as well as some Tycobrahe Pedal Flanger material.
We'll see what comes of it.
  
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Mark Hammer on November 15, 2013, 12:28:54 PM
The ECG1641 is an MN3007 substitute, right, not a 3207 sub?

Correct

I may have to give this one a crack.  

Shouldn't you finish your Hyperflange build first?  :icon_wink:

I have a bit of a build backlog going now but.....I've been working with the ADA STD-1 factory docs as well as some Tycobrahe Pedal Flanger material.
We'll see what comes of it.
  
  :icon_rolleyes:It's precisely these sort of distractions that have impeded me from completing the Hyperflange for 20 years.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 15, 2013, 06:47:12 PM
For further information:

Mutron Flanger Dissection thread here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=103542.0

Pedal Voltage control circuit discussion here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=103879.0

Bias voltage connected to In/Out jacks here: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=104370.0



Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Mark Hammer on November 16, 2013, 10:31:46 AM
Not to be picky, but the first op-amp stage in the build document shows a 390k feedback resistor and a .047uf feedback cap.  Should that be 47pf, rather than nf?
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 16, 2013, 12:06:39 PM
Hey Mark,

Please be picky! If anything was missed, I would like to correct it.

The cap you are referring to is C3 right?
The factory schematic lists it as a .047f....but that can't be completely trusted.

Dino verified all of the component values.....but he can't be completely trusted either!  ;D

I also verified what I could see in images from the net and that Dino provided.
I used this info to make a component designation overlay as well as a component value overlay.
I used this to verify the schematic.

I couldn't make out most of the caps from the images, but with a little "electronics archeology" I can tell if the size looks in the ballpark for the value listed.

This is an image of C1 and C3, both listed as .047f.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/R3%20C3.jpg)

Now.....time for me to learn. Why do the 390K and .047f values look suspect?
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Mark Hammer on November 16, 2013, 02:56:01 PM
I'm assuming - perhaps naively - that the feedback components ought to conform to the usual formula of F = 1/(2pi x R x C).  With a 390k resistor, that would make the high-end rolloff begin around 8.6hz.   Juuuuuuuusssstttt a little low.  If C3 were 47pf, that would be 8.6khz, which isn't hi-fi, by any stretch, but reasonable bandwidth for a guitar.

Is there something that *I* don't understand about feedback caps in unity-gain non-inverting op-amps?
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 16, 2013, 03:40:21 PM
I just looked through folders of schematics for flangers and delays.
I see what you mean...I couldn't find any similar examples.

I think that the answer is in here somewhere.
http://www.physics.unlv.edu/~bill/PHYS483/op_amp_filt.pdf
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 18, 2013, 09:39:40 AM
@Larry,

Any chance you could post some good gut shots of your build? Just so that us interested folks  8) can get an idea of the form/fit/function of the build.

Thanks!!

EDIT: Larry.... looking at the PCB layout. It appears that RX8 is connected to 2 traces. If you look near the "P" in Pedal Flanger 3007, when the layout is printed to size, the PCB pad for RX8 in this area connects to TWO traces. Is this correct?
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 18, 2013, 11:51:18 AM


EDIT: Larry.... looking at the PCB layout. It appears that RX8 is connected to 2 traces. If you look near the "P" in Pedal Flanger 3007, when the layout is printed to size, the PCB pad for RX8 in this area connects to TWO traces. Is this correct?


Uhh.....yeah it looks like RX8 connects to two traces because it does!!.......but it's not supposed to!
Good catch Greg!

Here is the revised main board file with that fixed.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/Pedal%20Flanger%20main%20board%20.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/Pedal%20Flanger%20main%20board%20.pdf)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 18, 2013, 12:47:25 PM
Thanks for the fix Larry!  ;)

Any chance of some pic uploads/gut shots? It is always good to see how the working unit was assembled  ;D
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: GodSaveMetal on November 18, 2013, 01:25:48 PM
Thanks to fix it!! great EAGLE look, thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 18, 2013, 05:53:40 PM
Here are some images. There really isn't much to see that isn't detailed in the build document.

When viewed from the bottom, with the bottom cover removed, the LED/LDR board is oriented component side up.
The main board is oriented trace side up.
The controls which are mounted to the main board component side are "upside down" and exit through the top of the enclosure.
The LEDs which are mounted on the trace side of the LED/LDR board are "upside down" and exit through the top of the enclosure.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/11-17-13/2013-11-18%2015.24.14.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/11-17-13/2013-11-18%2015.21.04.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/11-17-13/2013-11-18%2015.22.39.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/11-17-13/2013-11-18%2015.29.14.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/11-17-13/2013-11-18%2015.34.19.jpg)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/11-17-13/Componant%20side.jpg)

Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 18, 2013, 08:44:59 PM
Thanks again Larry. Exactly what I was looking for and more!  8)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 18, 2013, 09:32:14 PM
One of these days I'll have to take this all apart, strip the powder coating off of the enclosure, paint it, and put the artwork decal on all proper like and stuff.  :icon_wink:

There are just too many projects!
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: digi2t on November 18, 2013, 09:57:31 PM
One of these days I'll have to take this all apart, strip the powder coating off of the enclosure, paint it, and put the artwork decal on all proper like and stuff.  :icon_wink:

There are just too many projects!

Nooooooo..... leave it as is, and blow some minds when you step on it. I can hear the head scratching now.

That's why I don't dress my pedals anymore. Just leave them in a cloud of "What the hell was THAT?!"

Better yet, label it "Morley Pedal Flanger", and really mess with their minds. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 19, 2013, 11:04:40 AM
To keep everything together all orderly....I reworked the original Build Document posted on reply 19 to include the revised main board PCB print. (small mistake corrected)
Flangerland is safe again from non working PCBs.  ;D
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Ronan on November 20, 2013, 02:05:17 AM
That DOES sound very nice. I would use a bit less resonance myself, but if there were any nasties in there, we would have heard them in the clip! I like it a lot!

Very nice build doc pdf too. You all did a great job.

Larry, I was wondering if you would nut it all out in the end, which you did, and its great to see such a good result :)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 20, 2013, 07:47:29 AM
@Larry,

Did you use the Tayda LDRs for your pedal? I see that they carry the type listed in your document but I wanted to know if you used Tayda pieces before pulling the trigger.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on November 20, 2013, 10:01:36 AM
@ Ian,

Thanks for the compliment and all of the help!
I agree with less resonance. I had it cranked during most of the video sample. Usually when I'm playing through this flanger, adjusting the stop/start controls, I'm adjusting the resonance as well. Working all three controls brings about a large selection of different shades of sound.

Mark commented on the resonance not being that hollow tube, metallic, type of sound like most flangers.
I agree, this circuit is very usable across the spectrum of controls.

@ Greg,
Yes, Tayda LDRs as listed in the build docs.

If there is a part number listed, that's what I used except for the DC jack.

That number is from an Eagle part. I forgot to wipe it so it wouldn't be misleading.

For the jack I used the PC mount, DC jack the Tayda stocks: 
http://www.taydaelectronics.com/hardware/dc-power/dc-power-jack-2-1mm-barrel-type-pcb-mount.html

It's a standard 2.1mm X 5.5mm jack that can be sourced from countless outlets.


Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on November 20, 2013, 10:36:10 AM
Thanks Larry. I saw the part number in the build doc but didn't know if you got them from Tayda or not (or I missed that reference in the doc  :icon_redface:)

Cannot wait to get to building this!!! AWESOME WORK!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on December 09, 2013, 08:48:26 PM
As I stated in the build document.....with only 1000 of these flangers made....they can go for a ridiculous amount of money when one comes up for auction.

$1650 starting price...and one bid on it! Not exactly collectors quality either!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mutron-Flanger-/111235077117?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item19e62093fd
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on December 10, 2013, 07:23:49 AM
Odd that he references "Hen's Teeth" in the description  ???

Wonder if they are a member here and have seen some of Dino's videos  ;D
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: digi2t on December 10, 2013, 07:48:18 AM
Not mine, and I'm in no way related to the auction in question.

But... mine will be going on the block soon, so the bid on $1650 bodes well for me.

Disclaimer/Acknowledgement: To my knowledge, the term "Hen's Tooth" was formally popularized by Jimi Photon, from whom I borrowed it. "The Hen's Tooth Caf" would like to state, for the record, that Mr. Photon deserves all credit for the intellectual property behind the decision to name my videos, and workshop, as such. Anyone considering use of the term "Hen's Tooth", and/or any of it's related forms, may wish to consider the following legal implications;

Quote
Copyright Infringement Notification

To file a copyright infringement notification with Jimi Pocius, LLC, you will need to send communication that includes substantially the following (please consult your legal counsel or see Section 512(c)(3) of the Copyright Act to confirm these requirements):


An electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.
Identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works at a single online site are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such works at that site.
Identification of the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity and that is to be removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to locate the material. Providing URLs in the body of an email is the best way to help us locate content quickly.
Information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to contact the complaining party, such as an address, telephone number, and, if available, an electronic mail address at which the complaining party may be contacted.
A statement that the complaining party has a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.
A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.


Such electronic notice should be sent to our designated agent as follows:

jimi@henstooth.com

Please also note that under Section 512(f) any person who knowingly materially misrepresents that material or activity is infringing may be subject to liability.

Counter-Notification

Please note that under Section 512(f) of the Copyright Act, any person who knowingly materially misrepresents that material or activity was removed or disabled by mistake or misidentification may be subject to liability. Please also be advised that we enforce a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate circumstances of subscribers who are repeat infringers

Or not. :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 12, 2014, 01:55:54 PM
Not too much building of this going on  ???

From the responses and interest... Color me surprised  :-\
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: fendman on March 17, 2014, 09:18:51 AM
Not too much building of this going on  ???

From the responses and interest... Color me surprised  :-\

Well Greg, I made a start on this  pedal which is certainly a challenge. I got a Morley enclosure on Ebay which was for spares or repair.  I etched the boards and I am at the

stage of populating the main board...and everything seems to be going to plan, apart from finding the 10k trimmers which you can alter from underneath... Mouser is out of the

question because of the price so if anybody has a link for a company in the UK that would be appreciated.

One other point as regards D10 the MS6102...which I can't get, but  Larry says as an alternative you can use 2 matched 1n914's  does that mean matched in the

sense of FV forward voltage ? So apart from the afore mentioned I am enjoying this challenge.

Thanks Larry and the others for making this great project available..Anybody else thinking about doing it...I think it is well worth the effort :icon_smile:

MIke
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on March 17, 2014, 11:16:19 AM
Hey Mike,

You can use this trimmer Piher PT6KV-103A2020 as well.

This trimmer is a slightly different style but it has the same footprint as the one specified in the build document.
http://www.soselectronic.com/a_info/resource/a/pdf/pt6.pdf

For your European buying pleasure:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/PT6-horizontal-10k.html

The dual diode can be replaced with forward voltage matched 4148s. You should have no problem finding a matched pair out of a small group of diodes.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: fendman on March 17, 2014, 03:51:29 PM
Thanks for the info Larry appreciated :icon_smile:

Mike

Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Anon on July 22, 2014, 11:23:40 AM
Anybody plan on having the PCB's made for this project? I'm willing to buy a few. If somebody had them made they would definitely sell  :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Strategy on July 22, 2014, 01:00:47 PM
Anybody plan on having the PCB's made for this project? I'm willing to buy a few. If somebody had them made they would definitely sell  :icon_cool:

Same for me!
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: soulheal on August 23, 2016, 05:20:16 PM
Finally got around to getting a short sample video together of the Mutron Flanger clone.

Thanks go out to all that helped in the process! Special thanks go to Ian (ronan), Federico (fender3D), R.G. (who can never be thanked enough for sharing his wisdom) Oh yeah...did I forget someone? My partner in crime on this project. Dino (digi2T)





Complete project files coming soon.

Hi,

I have, over the past year or so, managed to build 2 of the Mutron Flanger clones. However, they do not seem to work. I am not getting any signal through them when plugged in. the LEDS do not light up, I do not get a bypass signal going through the pedal, and there is no effect.
I am powering them with a 12v AC/AC 3A power supply as instructed. I am using a 12V 3A max AC/AC power supply. Is this the right one? Should it be input DC/output AC? When I hook up a multimeter to the solder points on the power input when plugged in, I get a reading of .070 VAC.
I feel that i have missed something basic. It may be the fault of a cold-solder or 2, as this is my first real build.
 
I have not calibrated them yet, and I don't know if this is why they are not activating. At any rate, I was hoping to get a few pointers as to what may be causing this. I did my best to keep to all the right parts. Even ordered stuff from Europe.
I hope that i can at least get on the right track to an answer. I was hoping to sell or trade one and keep one.

I can't figure out how to enable attachments of photos at the moment.

Any suggestions as to what info will be the most helpful for this situation will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your help and best regards,

Will



ftp://
(http://)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on August 23, 2016, 06:09:21 PM

Hi,

I have, over the past year or so, managed to build 2 of the Mutron Flanger clones. However, they do not seem to work. I am not getting any signal through them when plugged in. the LEDS do not light up, I do not get a bypass signal going through the pedal, and there is no effect.
I am powering them with a 12v AC/AC 3A power supply as instructed. I am using a 12V 3A max AC/AC power supply. Is this the right one? Should it be input DC/output AC? When I hook up a multimeter to the solder points on the power input when plugged in, I get a reading of .070 VAC.
I feel that i have missed something basic. It may be the fault of a cold-solder or 2, as this is my first real build.
 
I have not calibrated them yet, and I don't know if this is why they are not activating. At any rate, I was hoping to get a few pointers as to what may be causing this. I did my best to keep to all the right parts. Even ordered stuff from Europe.
I hope that i can at least get on the right track to an answer. I was hoping to sell or trade one and keep one.

I can't figure out how to enable attachments of photos at the moment.

Any suggestions as to what info will be the most helpful for this situation will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your help and best regards,

Will



As per the build document,
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/Pedal%20Flanger%20Build%20Document.pdf
the proper power supply is 18VDC or 12VAC.
Use your multimeter to check the power supply output when it is not plugged into the flanger.
Make sure that your meter is on "AC" or ~
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: soulheal on August 23, 2016, 08:46:57 PM

Hi,

I have, over the past year or so, managed to build 2 of the Mutron Flanger clones. However, they do not seem to work. I am not getting any signal through them when plugged in. the LEDS do not light up, I do not get a bypass signal going through the pedal, and there is no effect.
I am powering them with a 12v AC/AC 3A power supply as instructed. I am using a 12V 3A max AC/AC power supply. Is this the right one? Should it be input DC/output AC? When I hook up a multimeter to the solder points on the power input when plugged in, I get a reading of .070 VAC.
I feel that i have missed something basic. It may be the fault of a cold-solder or 2, as this is my first real build.
 
I have not calibrated them yet, and I don't know if this is why they are not activating. At any rate, I was hoping to get a few pointers as to what may be causing this. I did my best to keep to all the right parts. Even ordered stuff from Europe.
I hope that i can at least get on the right track to an answer. I was hoping to sell or trade one and keep one.

I can't figure out how to enable attachments of photos at the moment.

Any suggestions as to what info will be the most helpful for this situation will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for your help and best regards,

Will



As per the build document,
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/Pedal%20Flanger%20Build%20Document.pdf
the proper power supply is 18VDC or 12VAC.
Use your multimeter to check the power supply output when it is not plugged into the flanger.
Make sure that your meter is on "AC" or ~

Hi,

Thanks for your quick response!
I tested the power supply and I get a reading of 13.72 VAC.

Tried plugging it in again just to be sure and still got no signal to pass through the pedal.

Thanks!

Will
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on August 23, 2016, 09:20:30 PM
If you're not getting voltage on the power connector solder pins when the adapter is plugged in...check continuity between the connector pins and the copper traces that they are soldered to.

Check for shorts (solder bridges) between the power traces. Also check for hairline etching "cuts" along the power traces. You can check these possible issues with the continuity function on your meter.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: soulheal on August 23, 2016, 09:22:20 PM
Hi,

Thanks for your quick response!
I tested the power supply and I get a reading of 13.72 VAC. When I plug it in and  I test the solder points with Positive on the power input and negative on the PCB I get the same reading. When I test the positive on the power input and the negative on the ground I get a wandering number between .8 and .9 VAC. It looks like a bad power input or a cold solder on one of the units because when i test the other unit I get 13.65 or so when testing the solder points of the positive and negative of the ground. I guess this is why I built 2 of them!

Tried plugging it in again just to be sure and still got no signal to pass through either pedal. although the capacitor by the power input starts to heat up a bit on the unit with the good power input.

I looks like I will just have to test every one of the components, but I sure hope not. I exercising a lot of delayed gratification here! ;D

Thanks!

Will
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on August 23, 2016, 09:43:25 PM
Double check the orientation of polarized capacitors, diodes, etc. Also check IC orientation.
Make sure everything matches the overlay on page 8 of the build doc.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on August 24, 2016, 11:22:06 AM
Maybe you should concentrate on the build where you have AC power at the power jack.

Check for 15VDC at the points designated by red arrows.

If you have 15VDC between those points, follow the power and ground traces to make sure you have power throughout the board.

Check all power and ground jumper solder connections.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53299166/DIYstompboxes/Mutron%20Flanger%20DC%20power%20input.png)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: StephenGiles on August 24, 2016, 05:04:12 PM
Just printed out the circuit on to 4 pages of A4 and stuck it together, would that make it A2 size??  - now I can read it!!

It's still 26C outside (10pm here) so probably 35C where I'm sitting!!
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: soulheal on August 24, 2016, 05:25:58 PM
Hi,

Thanks for your reply. When I test for current between those 2 points I get 0.033 volts. I will check the connections in a bit.

Does the metal tab and the circle on the other side of IC12 serve a purpose?

Thanks!

Will 
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on August 24, 2016, 06:16:45 PM
Just printed out the circuit on to 4 pages of A4 and stuck it together, would that make it A2 size??  - now I can read it!!

It's still 26C outside (10pm here) so probably 35C where I'm sitting!!

Hey Stephen,

Well...you might have to move yourself to a nice Mediterranean climate....it's 3:10pm here in Costa Mesa, California...nice breeze blowing...temp coming in at 25C.

You had to print out the schematic in four sheets so you can read it? Don't you just hate aging eyes? Mine started going about six years ago! Readers or blind! :icon_frown:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Fender3D on August 24, 2016, 06:55:46 PM
.... Don't you just hate aging eyes? Mine started going about six years ago! Readers or blind! :icon_frown:

You may ask Rob (DA) for a laser treatment with his wha pedals...  :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on August 24, 2016, 07:45:50 PM
Hi,

Thanks for your reply. When I test for current between those 2 points I get 0.033 volts. I will check the connections in a bit.

Does the metal tab and the circle on the other side of IC12 serve a purpose?

Thanks!

Will

The hole drilling guide (circle on trace side) and the metal tab on the regulator is to bolt the regulator to a heat sink, or in this case, the board. It's not necessary.
Check the AC voltage between the power input jack and the regulator (IC12) including the rectifier diode. (D11)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: soulheal on August 24, 2016, 09:39:18 PM
Thanks!

Will do. Will let you know how it goes.

Will
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: StephenGiles on August 25, 2016, 03:07:19 AM
Just printed out the circuit on to 4 pages of A4 and stuck it together, would that make it A2 size??  - now I can read it!!

It's still 26C outside (10pm here) so probably 35C where I'm sitting!!

Hey Stephen,

Well...you might have to move yourself to a nice Mediterranean climate....it's 3:10pm here in Costa Mesa, California...nice breeze blowing...temp coming in at 25C.

You had to print out the schematic in four sheets so you can read it? Don't you just hate aging eyes? Mine started going about six years ago! Readers or blind! :icon_frown:

We had 32 in Croydon yesterday where I work with 90% humidity and no breeze at all - very sticky indeed overnight, our house is like an oven.

Your drawing of this circuit is a work of art - may frame it!!
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on August 25, 2016, 08:44:13 AM
I can definitely attest to the fact that the circuit works as advertised. Built one a while back and it was AWESOME!!!  8)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: soulheal on August 25, 2016, 07:13:37 PM
Thanks for your comment. I'm sure it will work.
I'm just relatively new to this particular adventure and have some patience to exercise and skills to develop.
I built a kit of the Carlin Phaser pedal from Moody Sounds and it worked great.
The Flanger is next level for me. Did everything from scratch.

Best Regards,

Will
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: soulheal on August 25, 2016, 10:32:55 PM
Hi,

Thanks for your reply. When I test for current between those 2 points I get 0.033 volts. I will check the connections in a bit.

Does the metal tab and the circle on the other side of IC12 serve a purpose?

Thanks!

Will

 

The hole drilling guide (circle on trace side) and the metal tab on the regulator is to bolt the regulator to a heat sink, or in this case, the board. It's not necessary.
Check the AC voltage between the power input jack and the regulator (IC12) including the rectifier diode. (D11)

Hi,

I spent an hour and a half messing around with my power supplies and the power jacks. I'm not sure what is going on. It appears that when I initially plug in the power supply, and I measure the voltage, it is 13.60 VAC or so. Then, after a couple minutes, the voltage goes down and is about 2.6 VAC. It varies. Sometimes the reading never gets to 13 VAC and hovers around 2. I'm in over my head here. I spent the money and bought the good quality power supplies from IPHC. They are Output 12VAC 3A max. Input 120VAC, 60Hz, 45W. DC PLUG S2.1*5.5mm.
At first I thought it was that the power jacks were bad, and now I just don't know. I replaced the batteries on my multimeter and got the same result.

Hope this helps. Thanks for your input.

Will
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on August 26, 2016, 10:07:33 AM
If your voltage is going down like you say then that means you are slowly exceeding the max current of the power supply (3A  :o)

If I were you, the FIRST thing I would do is go over the entire circuit and make sure that the regulator is installed correctly, all electro caps are installed correctly, all diodes installed correctly, check all caps for voltage tolerance, check all ICs for proper installation, etc.

Sounds like something is grounded or improperly installed and is draining your power.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: duck_arse on August 26, 2016, 11:03:14 AM
3A going into a pedal means something/s going to be getting HOT!! finding what might help troubleshooting.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: armdnrdy on August 26, 2016, 11:53:38 AM
Duck is correct.

Check (with your finger) for any component that is getting hot to the touch.

If you can't find anything...assuming that the ICs are socketed, I would remove them and check voltage measurement again.

As Greg stated, check the orientation of the voltage regulator. Looking at the component side of the PCB...it should be the writing side of the regulator facing up.

You should take some pictures of both sides of the board and post them.

Many times a few more eyes over your shoulder can be helpful in spotting issues that you've overlooked.

Search the net for an image hosting service like dropbox, learn how to upload pictures to dropbox, right click on the Mona Lisa icon (Insert Image) above the first smiley on the left, something like this will appear on your post. [ img ] [ img] Go to the dropbox folder that contains the image you want to post, left click on the image, right click on "copy public link", center your curser between the two center brackets, [ img ] [ img] and right click. Left click "paste". The image will show up when you left click "post".
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: soulheal on August 26, 2016, 05:44:56 PM
Thanks for the support!

I have felt that the capacitor is getting quite warm. The voltage regulator is facing up.

It appears that Govt-Lackey is right in something draining the power.

Looks like I will need to go through the whole thing.

I will follow your other suggestion as time permits.

Thanks again for the wisdom!

Will
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on August 28, 2016, 03:33:31 PM
Pull all of the (hopefully socketed) IC chips. This way, you might eliminate where the shorting is occurring -OR- at least you remove the ICs and keep them out of harms way while testing for problems.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: soulheal on September 02, 2016, 05:19:51 PM
Pull all of the (hopefully socketed) IC chips. This way, you might eliminate where the shorting is occurring -OR- at least you remove the ICs and keep them out of harms way while testing for problems.
OK. Thanks!

Will give it a try as time permits.

Will
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kaifeck on May 10, 2017, 05:04:40 AM
Sorry for the Necropost.

I'd really love to build this flanger, but it seems that the project files are no longer available. All I get is the 404 page. I already searched the web and various other forums but I couldn't find them. Does anybody have the files?
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: njkmonty on May 10, 2017, 08:27:23 AM
i do
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/CwalGQONPjScI5Lgzq8POAhYPPeM1Ua29nDOv30iDpsPEu2B1JTMLB3lqIcytZ2o/file (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/CwalGQONPjScI5Lgzq8POAhYPPeM1Ua29nDOv30iDpsPEu2B1JTMLB3lqIcytZ2o/file)

https://www.dropbox.com/home/mutron%20flanger?preview=Pedal+Flanger+main+board+.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/home/mutron%20flanger?preview=Pedal+Flanger+main+board+.pdf)


Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kaifeck on May 10, 2017, 09:43:07 AM
Thanks for your help, but it seems that the first link you gave me leads me to a "403 Error: It seems you don't belong here!" page and the other leads me to my own Dropbox.

BTW if this is this wrong place to ask or if it's wrong to ask for non-retail schematics/files as a new member, please let me know.


Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: njkmonty on May 10, 2017, 12:54:18 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3awa2fwc3ntsl9n/Pedal%20Flanger%20Build%20Document.pdf?dl=0
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kaifeck on May 10, 2017, 01:43:50 PM
Thanks man, you're awesome :D
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on January 30, 2019, 10:53:53 AM
What a remarkable project. The collaborate efforts from the forum to put this one together says allot about the community. It sure is inspiring.

With a "damaged" Morley volume pedal heading my way and trying to fit in one more stompbox build before I have to buckle down for a move... I'd like to chime in to bring this thread back. I shall return soon with my pedal flanger  :icon_wink:

Thanks, guys!
-KM
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on January 31, 2019, 03:01:40 PM
Here's a spreadsheet for sourcing the parts needed. Everything is split between SB and Tayda.
Looks like you can find everything you need through these vendors!

MU-TRON FLANGER BOM Part Sources
 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zc7U5f8BNvhfZwMrK8ubWZG9eighpNIBMy0Hw4f2NEI/edit?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 01, 2019, 11:01:59 AM
Let me know if you need any parts for this. I still have some etched PCBs, Morley wah shells, etc. laying around that I do not plan to build.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: digi2t on February 01, 2019, 11:22:35 AM
I have the boards. I have the parts. I have the pedal.

It's been on my "to do" list forevvvvvveeeeeeerrrrrrrr.

I need to get my ass on this.

 :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on February 01, 2019, 11:30:19 AM
Let me know if you need any parts for this. I still have some etched PCBs, Morley wah shells, etc. laying around that I do not plan to build.
Ha! I remembered your offer after I put out a bid on the Morley pedal. I am interested but fear I'd hold onto them and try to pawn them off as they sit around! It's a viscous cycle - being overstocked. Shoot me a PM to work out a deal on one of those shells. I would like to have one in case I get an itch to build another later down the road - we all know it'll happen  :icon_lol:.

I hope anyone interested takes your offer on the other supplies. I'd feel less fulfilled if I didn't etch my own boards  :icon_rolleyes:

I've updated my previous post after searching through the vendors a bit more. You can find everything you need between the two minus the Morley shell and power supply.

I'm considering implanting a chargepump circuit so I could use my 9v pedal supply. Does anyone know the current draw for the circuit?
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on February 01, 2019, 01:24:37 PM
I have the boards. I have the parts. I have the pedal.

It's been on my "to do" list forevvvvvveeeeeeerrrrrrrr.

I need to get my ass on this.

 :icon_rolleyes:

You should do a comparison of the two if you still have the old unit! Also if you could answer my questions at the bottom of my previous post I'd greatly appreciate it  ;D
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: digi2t on February 01, 2019, 06:36:02 PM
I have the boards. I have the parts. I have the pedal.

It's been on my "to do" list forevvvvvveeeeeeerrrrrrrr.

I need to get my ass on this.

 :icon_rolleyes:

You should do a comparison of the two if you still have the old unit! Also if you could answer my questions at the bottom of my previous post I'd greatly appreciate it  ;D

I remember trying the MN3007 as a retrofit for the SAD1024 in the original unit, and it worked perfectly. It required some slight tweaking of the trimmers, but that was it. There was no audible difference between the two. Larry did a video of the clone, and I remember there being virtually no difference between his and the original. Seeing at how the clone project turned out, there was no reason for me to keep the original, so I sold it. Besides, the thing is YUGE, so having downsized it to a Morley sized enclosure was another win.

I'm no expert, but "I think" the current draw might be a bit too heavy for a MAX1044 or LT1054. Also, bringing the +/-15v down to +/-9v would cut into the headroom. Again, not sure how much it would affect the overall performance of the circuit.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on February 10, 2019, 10:11:51 AM
There isn't much on the MSD6102 so here's some of my findings for anyone using matched diodes in it's place.

Match forward voltage - use diode function on multimeter. Like matching VBE for transistors they are temperature/environment sensitive. Don't handle with your hands and test in a draft free space. Try to work quick, jot down the measurement averages per each diode. Use best 2 candidates.

The MSD6102 pinout is 1-anode, 2-anode, 3-common cathode

The PCB shows extra pads for the diodes but isn't ideal in placement. The pad from pin 1 should actually be from pin 2. That way you can lay both diodes parallel and flat, cathodes at pin 3. I'd call this a plan flaw - no big deal. Just a note.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mhN86kWy/MUTRONFLANGER-MSD-NOTE.png) (https://postimg.cc/mhN86kWy)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on February 10, 2019, 10:59:18 AM
Might be flanging by the end of the day

(https://i.postimg.cc/68LRLj2W/Photo-Feb-10-10-53-56-AM.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/68LRLj2W)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4KW9jYQj/Photo-Feb-10-10-55-19-AM.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4KW9jYQj)
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on February 15, 2019, 08:34:09 AM
We've got some flange but I'm trying to debug a few things - the clock and pedal CV.

Calibration step 1 - set clock to 50kHz min, ~ 700kHz - 800kHz max.
Adjusting TR5 didn't seem to do anything. Was able to get the correct range adding a 47pF capacitor and adjusting TR6 alone. This was concerning but the sweep seemed right. Though I can't tell if the start and stop controls are behaving correctly. Only getting the effect when they are at about 10% (almost fully CCW)

Calibrating the pedal
Pedal CV seems to be stuck at about 12 volts. So I'll have to take that apart and look for shorts (for the 3rd time  :'()

I quickly ran through the BBD calibration to see how other things were. So that's not perfect at the moment but it's doing what it should. Fingers crossed for it to be sorted out over the weekend. Will share my findings.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on February 17, 2019, 04:05:13 PM
Found the short for pedal CV. So I've got a pedal flanger now  8)

But sadly I'm still experiencing the first issue from my previous post. TR5 isn't doing anything for the frequency and the start and stop don't seem to do anything for the pedal sweep and only get LFO sweeps when dialed way down. I'm not sure if it's suppose to work like this but my gut tells me to keep looking for errors.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on February 17, 2019, 08:29:19 PM
In the meantime... I couldn't help myself but to have some fun with it as is.
Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: digi2t on February 18, 2019, 07:03:28 AM
The Start/Stop controls are inversely interactive. That's to say, having both at the same position, will really curtail the flanging effect. The further apart you set them, the deeper the flanging effect. Skip to 1:12 for the start stop explanation. Not very technical, but I had some head scratching with these controls as well at first;

Title: Re: Mutron Flanger Clone
Post by: Kevin Mitchell on February 18, 2019, 08:28:16 AM
Seen your video last night when I was looking up samples of the original  :icon_smile:
I still believe the clock is not right. It only works when start is at a very low setting - but above 0.. Stop has to be at about 10% to get the effect as well. Those two controls positioned anywhere else kills the effect. It's strange because the sweep seems right but I know having no results adjusting TR5 (calibration step one) is not a good sign.

Just another thing to pick at during the evening. Will be back with an update soon.