DIYstompboxes.com

Hi,
I am a bedroom hobby musician and I wonder if to try some cabinet simulator circuit.
Right now i use a valve preamp, some booster/od in front, then straight into the audio interface, adding reverb and cabinet simulator.
F.ex. Guitar Rig 4 controll room is pretty pretty much decent cab simulator and I like it.
Tried VST plugins (le cab) for loading IR and I cannot say I liked the result.
---
Is there any analog circuit that could match the GR cab simulation performance?
As far as I know, cab simultor outputs/pedals/DI boxes are not much than an EQ response.
I tried to mimick EQ curves in guitar rig, instead of using the cabinets there, and at least simulated it does not sound good.
---
The final point is to make a cab sim that I could plug into a mixing console and have some good result.

Regards :)

I'm probably not the best guy to answer this, but if I were to build something in the analog realm I would try to clone a Palmer PDI-03. I've never used one myself but Joe Banamassa has been using those for his front of house sounds for a while now and it's hard to argue about the tones he gets. I remember trying to find a schematic for one some time ago but not having any luck, maybe you'll be luckier.

I put a RunOffGroove Condor on breadboard once but wasn't terribly pleased with it.

The best sims I've heard are digital, as you've experienced with you're GR 4. I believe the better ones take into count more than just EQ curves such as room characterists and small frequency dependant time delays...aspects that simulate actual sound waves travelling through the air which is tough to do in pure analog.

Quote from: Pojo on February 17, 2014, 11:06:54 AM
I'm probably not the best guy to answer this, but if I were to build something in the analog realm I would try to clone a Palmer PDI-03. I've never used one myself but Joe Banamassa has been using those for his front of house sounds for a while now and it's hard to argue about the tones he gets. I remember trying to find a schematic for one some time ago but not having any luck, maybe you'll be luckier.

I put a RunOffGroove Condor on breadboard once but wasn't terribly pleased with it.

The best sims I've heard are digital, as you've experienced with you're GR 4. I believe the better ones take into count more than just EQ curves such as room characterists and small frequency dependant time delays...aspects that simulate actual sound waves travelling through the air which is tough to do in pure analog.

There is a schematic floating around for the palmer, but it uses a custom wound transform as most palmer stuff does. IMO its probably THE best sound speaker sim, but not easily DIY'd.

I want one badly, but the cost is just too high.

It will be easy for a bunch of people to jump on this thread and name all the DIY cab sims that they know, but it seems like you're very particular about the sound you like. You're correct, any projects will just basically be preset EQs. Pojo is right - if you want much more than just a filter takes out the preamp fizz and don't want to rely on your computer for it then you should look into a decent piece of digital outboard gear, and only your ears will tell you which is the right one!

Use a mic! No need to build/buy anything, just stop going direct - instant "cab sound". Guitarists forget how much famous "tone" comes from a $100 SM57. Build a low power valve amp and you can record in a nursery. Just sayin'.

Not really usefull after 10 o clock in the evening :).
I am playing on headphones 99% of the time, except when I exercise something unplugged.
Ocasionally in our rehearsal room as well.
---
Some fundamental question - maybe the analog stuff might work well plugged into PA, relying that there are some real speakers at the end?
---
For direct recording, I would still like to have a non-pc peace of gear.
like for.ex. I could use a reverb as a seporate unit or from the mixing console's DSP.
Torpedo two notes - a bit expensive :)

I really like Tonepad's Marshall Cab Simulator. It could really use a volume and blend control though, because I think the effect is a bit too much. Like G12-T75's, it's scooped and a bit woofy on the low end, a bit fizzy on the top end, but still sounds pretty good. I used it with my AxeTrak to help get the AxeTrak to sound a bit more natural. Straight to the board, it doesn't sound as good as some other options, but it's better than nothing.

I built an H&K RedBox Mark II, and it's ok. Between an amp and a cab, I've found that it just doesn't have the headroom for cranked 100W amps. I'm not sure how you would use it live, but at band volume, it seems like the amp's output gets distorted by the Red Box before it goes to the board. You've also got a line-in, so you can just plug your pedals/pre-amp right into it and run that to the board. It might work better at 12v that at 9v, but I haven't tried that yet.

The Radial JDX is similar to the Red Box, but quite a bit nicer. There's no line-in though. It's only meant to go after your power-amp. I haven't played around with mine too much yet, but I was able to get better tones out of it than I was with the Red Box. There's no schematic out there that I know off.

You could always build a Sansamp BDDI and use it for it's cabsim. It has a blend, which can help make it sound less processed and more natural. I like running the Sansamp US Metal into the BDDI instead of using the US Metal's built-in cabsim. The BDDI is less fizzy. I've also got a British, which has much better voicing for its cabsim and doesn't benefit by using the BDDI. Set clean, any of the Sansamps could probably act as your cabsim. You can think of it as running your pedals into a particular amp rig that's set clean. The other forum has a thread where they're looking at the different character series circuits and making schems for them.

If you're willing to go the route of isocabs for quite recording, the AxeTrak is the cheapest and quietest option out there. The only problem is that it doesn't sound that amazing, and a higher wattage amp can make the speaker start distorting before you ever get the power-amp distortion going. I use the Tonepad cabsim in front of my 5W amp to get a cabbier sound. Still, it's useable and better than a lot of other options. I recently got my hands on a Rivera SilentSister, which is expensive and massive and can still make the room shake, but it handles more wattage and sounds a lot better.

Thank you very much for the comprehensive response.
Sansamp seems promising, at least what I have watched as demos.
Could someone point me which part of the circuit is the cab simulator? (which opamps)
http://www.aresaudio.com/files/sansamp-schematic.jpg
I will research the other possibilities as well.
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My idea is to integrate a cab sim (with bypass) into a booster/double driode preamp device.
The device to be able to get a decent sound into PA.
Moreover, I would like to try reducing the load on my computer, taking out modules to be processed .
(f.ex. reverb from small mixer or external unit, cab sim from external unit)
Still not sure if a better interface or maybe better computer could solve some of the problems - I got craclings playing in real time.
And after all, not sure at all if I can get at least comparable to the software cab sim sound or even better  ;D

1) Several companies make speaker enclosures with the speaker inside a sealed, soundproof box, with a mic suspended inside.  I have no idea just how soundproof and baby/apartment-friendly they are, but the intent is to be able to play loud, mic it up, and still be able to talk over it if you want.

2) The Anderton-designed Stack-In-A-Box project at PAiA has a simple cab-sim.  Description and schematic found here: http://www.paia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9210K&cat=14

Quote from: emosms on February 17, 2014, 12:23:38 PM
Not really usefull after 10 o clock in the evening :).
I am playing on headphones 99% of the time, except when I exercise something unplugged.
Ocasionally in our rehearsal room as well.
---
Some fundamental question - maybe the analog stuff might work well plugged into PA, relying that there are some real speakers at the end?
---
For direct recording, I would still like to have a non-pc peace of gear.
like for.ex. I could use a reverb as a seporate unit or from the mixing console's DSP.
Torpedo two notes - a bit expensive :)

Yes, with a PA system, the EQ is all you need. When going direct, your best bet is an impulse response algorithm along with an EQ. Not sure what your setup is, if you are always plugged into a computer, most DAW software have good cab plugins these days. I record direct using Reaper ($60 web download) and use its IR plugin along with an apple graphic EQ plugin to shape it like a speaker curve and it works great. Otherwise you'll need some sort of external box as others have suggested.

Quote from: Mark Hammer on February 18, 2014, 01:44:20 PM
1) Several companies make speaker enclosures with the speaker inside a sealed, soundproof box, with a mic suspended inside.  I have no idea just how soundproof and baby/apartment-friendly they are, but the intent is to be able to play loud, mic it up, and still be able to talk over it if you want.

2) The Anderton-designed Stack-In-A-Box project at PAiA has a simple cab-sim.  Description and schematic found here: http://www.paia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9210K&cat=14

That Stack-In-A-Box looks really cool. I might have to get myself a rack enclosure and put one together. Not only is it cheap, but it's nice of them to provide the schematic.

Most isolation cabinets leak sound, and they tend to sound... well... not so great. They'll certainly cut a deafening roar down to the volume of a loud TV, but a loud TV will still piss off your neighbours. The speaker and mic diaphragm have some suction interaction going on due to the fact that they're in a sealed box. Randall and Jet City each make one, but they have mixed reviews. Randall just came out with one that looks like a 4x12, but it's new and there's not a lot of reports from users about it. Demeter's isocab is a step up, but also a bit more expensive. There was one on the market called The Dead Room by Grendel, but the guy building them couldn't keep up with demand and wound up taking a lot of people's money without being able to deliver on the cabs, and now he's out of business. The Dead Room was supposed to be the best isocab out there at the time. Now Rivera's got the Silent Sister, which has a labyrinth port to allow the iso part of the cab to breath. But it's 999$ and doesn't turn up on the used market too often. That says something for it's quality though: no one wants to sell theirs. The AxeTrak is unique in that it uses a smaller speaker and mic that you can't swap out, but it's smaller, lighter, quieter, and cheaper than all the others. It won't piss off your neighbours. The current production ones are useful, but nothing amazing. It's a great idea that needs some improvement. They're coming out with a new version soon, so I'm curious to see if it's worth trying out.

Quote from: mremic01 on February 18, 2014, 03:13:23 PM
That Stack-In-A-Box looks really cool. I might have to get myself a rack enclosure and put one together. Not only is it cheap, but it's nice of them to provide the schematic.

You will note the presence of a 4049-based charge-pump voltage upverter to feed the 12AX7.  That's a handy circuit to turn to when your charge=ump chip drawer comes up empty.

This is my favorite cab sim, period. I use it instead of impulses now also. I have built almost every cab/speaker sim you can think of and this one is "in my opinion" the best! There are no pots or switches, just straight up great sound! Russian design of course.. 

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11178619/Cab%20Simulation/simple_cabsim2%20Resistors.png)

My second favorite is the Hot Line 2 which is a really close second with the Simple Cab Sim above but has a variety of tonal variations.. Russian design again..

http://guitar-gear.ru/index.php?p=proj&id=59

Sprint layout--> http://guitar-gear.ru/proekt/Hot_Line_SpSim2/hotline2.lay

Audio demo
http://rutube.ru/video/fd5bef825afdd000fa8cfeb8812d38a2/?ref=logo

They are both well worth building!!

I have to specify that JOK3RX is not russian  :icon_lol:.

Quote from: J0K3RX on February 18, 2014, 07:50:55 PM
This is my favorite cab sim, period. I use it instead of impulses now also. I have built almost every cab/speaker sim you can think of and this one is "in my opinion" the best! There are no pots or switches, just straight up great sound! Russian design of course.. 

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11178619/Cab%20Simulation/simple_cabsim2%20Resistors.png)

My second favorite is the Hot Line 2 which is a really close second with the Simple Cab Sim above but has a variety of tonal variations.. Russian design again..

http://guitar-gear.ru/index.php?p=proj&id=59

Sprint layout--> http://guitar-gear.ru/proekt/Hot_Line_SpSim2/hotline2.lay

Audio demo
http://rutube.ru/video/fd5bef825afdd000fa8cfeb8812d38a2/?ref=logo

They are both well worth building!!

For the SimpleCabsim2 what voltage do you run at, Did you use BC560C and BC550C as in the scheme? Would BC550B and BC560B available at tayda work?

Are there before/after clips anywhere?

Quote from: pappasmurfsharem on February 19, 2014, 07:07:31 PM
For the SimpleCabsim2 what voltage do you run at, Did you use BC560C and BC550C as in the scheme? Would BC550B and BC560B available at tayda work?

Are there before/after clips anywhere?

I run it at 9V or 18V.... Don't know about the BC550B and BC560B, I asked Sergey about that a long time ago and he seemed to think it was important to use the ones he listed, so I took his advice. I ordered a crap load of them from mouser.. I have some "after" clips but no before.. I will try to make a couple.

There's nothing but followers in there so I assume any small signal silicon transistor should work perfectly.

You could probably eliminate about 1/4th of the components if you converted this to use opamp-based followers instead. I reckon the actual tone wouldn't change one bit.

I built this yesterday and tested it with a punch amp which I have yet to box up, and this will definetly go inside the box with it, it sounds really good. I used my own vero layout:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--fX5ob81V3E/UweT2ccneSI/AAAAAAAACoI/6dG0kf2zLLI/s1600/SimpleCabSim_VERO3.png)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kRTvLlIE5yA/UweT12slafI/AAAAAAAACn0/DzQeKyHFmV8/s1600/Simple+CabSim+YerayM.jpg)

I built it with 2N3906 / 2N3904 as thats the only PNP / NPN pair I have at hand right now, but I simulated it in LTSpice before. Here is the plot for BC560C / BC550C, 2N5087 / 2N5088 and 2N3906 / 2N3904 pairs.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qR4xioK0isM/UweT12-bvVI/AAAAAAAACnw/0XBIQNy3cbc/s1600/SimpleCabSim+Transistors+Comparison+white_800.jpg)

As you can see, there is some difference depending on the pair series you use, mostly between 2N390X and the others. But teemuk's post got me thinking, if I replace the followers with opamp followers what would be the frequency response look like? I tried to simulate it, please if someone sees and error in my "translation" to opamp based version tell me as I'm not sure I did it right.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-64kwfJKQ4CA/UweT2hsTQII/AAAAAAAACoE/ZVhdA1l6zds/s1600/SimpleCabSim_rev2_OpAmp_SCH.jpg)

Here is the resulting plot:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iATpvunnLCA/UweT2y6myOI/AAAAAAAACoM/zrkMowMXKrk/s1600/SimpleCabSim_rev2_OpAmp_plot.jpg)

It looks to me that the original BJT based design is making use of some transistor parameter but I fail to see what it is. Could someone who knows please stand up and explain it?

yerym,

So you built it 3904 and 3906? Can you record some clips?

It looks like from your sims that the 5087 and 5088 pair is almost dead on with the BC550 560c's

Quote from: yeraym on February 21, 2014, 01:26:43 PMIt looks to me that the original BJT based design is making use of some transistor parameter but I fail to see what it is. Could someone who knows please stand up and explain it?

The input impedance of the opamp buffers will be much higher than the transistors, so if the input impedance of the buffers plays some part in the filtering, that could explain the difference.
The blue trace on your transistor comparison shows a smaller peak near the upper roll off.

Great job yeraym!! Hope you like it as much as I do!

Here's another stupidly simple one but sounds great...

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11178619/Cab%20Simulation/TrueVAL/Two%20NPN%20CabSim.JPG)

Thanks J0K3RX, I really like this low parts count cab sims. For any one interested in more complex designs, there's lot of info here: http://www.hexeguitar.com/diy-cabsims_e (http://www.hexeguitar.com/diy-cabsims_e)

As a point of comparison, there is a fine series of frequency response plots
for the Tech21 VT Bass speaker sim pedal at....
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/tech21-vt-bass-wheres-magic-607213/ (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/tech21-vt-bass-wheres-magic-607213/)

*Deleted* Opening a new thread.

http://guitar-gear.ru/index.php?p=proj&id=59

any vero layout for this yet ?

been dying to build a stereo unit , but i can not wrap my head around how to make vero layouts ...

There was a 'MultiCab' sim design that was floating around here sometime back...rather nice,that one.

Quote from: yeraym on February 21, 2014, 01:26:43 PM
I built this yesterday and tested it with a punch amp which I have yet to box up, and this will definetly go inside the box with it, it sounds really good. I used my own vero layout:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--fX5ob81V3E/UweT2ccneSI/AAAAAAAACoI/6dG0kf2zLLI/s1600/SimpleCabSim_VERO3.png)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kRTvLlIE5yA/UweT12slafI/AAAAAAAACn0/DzQeKyHFmV8/s1600/Simple+CabSim+YerayM.jpg)

I built it with 2N3906 / 2N3904 as thats the only PNP / NPN pair I have at hand right now, but I simulated it in LTSpice before. Here is the plot for BC560C / BC550C, 2N5087 / 2N5088 and 2N3906 / 2N3904 pairs.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qR4xioK0isM/UweT12-bvVI/AAAAAAAACnw/0XBIQNy3cbc/s1600/SimpleCabSim+Transistors+Comparison+white_800.jpg)

As you can see, there is some difference depending on the pair series you use, mostly between 2N390X and the others. But teemuk's post got me thinking, if I replace the followers with opamp followers what would be the frequency response look like? I tried to simulate it, please if someone sees and error in my "translation" to opamp based version tell me as I'm not sure I did it right.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-64kwfJKQ4CA/UweT2hsTQII/AAAAAAAACoE/ZVhdA1l6zds/s1600/SimpleCabSim_rev2_OpAmp_SCH.jpg)

Here is the resulting plot:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-iATpvunnLCA/UweT2y6myOI/AAAAAAAACoM/zrkMowMXKrk/s1600/SimpleCabSim_rev2_OpAmp_plot.jpg)

It looks to me that the original BJT based design is making use of some transistor parameter but I fail to see what it is. Could someone who knows please stand up and explain it?

Op amps drive a lot more current than BJTs. You can limit their current drive with a series resistor on the output.

From the looks of those freq curves, IME I'd want a little more of a peak at 4kHz before the sharp dropoff at 5kHz.

Quote from: petey twofinger on March 29, 2014, 01:52:08 AM
http://guitar-gear.ru/index.php?p=proj&id=59

any vero layout for this yet ?

I built it on vero, can't remember offhand if I did a layout or not, I'll have a look.

ty !! i have my heart set on the hotline per jokerx's rec .

Thank you J0K3RX, YerayM, and please convey thanks to Lart!

YerayM I wonder could you make your ltspice files available? I'd like to modify the Simple CabSim to match the frequency response of an SVT 8x10 bass cab. This would give me a head start. Anyone happen to understand how the different rc filters in this thing work? Worth figuring out I think compared to the complexity needed with other designs.

Quote from: pulse on September 02, 2014, 05:21:54 PM
Thank you J0K3RX, YerayM, and please convey thanks to Lart!

I'm pretty sure Lart is from Ukraine... I believe Ukraine is in the middle of a crisis right now :icon_sad:

Quote from: J0K3RX on September 03, 2014, 08:21:32 PM
I'm pretty sure Lart is from Ukraine... I believe Ukraine is in the middle of a crisis right now :icon_sad:

I'm hoping Lart lives far away from the war zone, but sucks either way :-/ Normally I try to hide from world affairs, but after reading the amazing discussions on cabinet simulators in the Russian forums including much input from Lart, it's really making me sad :-| I do not see any fighting between Russia and Ukraine in the Russian guitar forums though, hope for us all.

I've built the Marshall vero on Sabrotone, and it's pretty good but it's probably too severe in it's filtering (at least in the original layout - I'm about to build rev2), I also have a Ultra-GI which is ok but probably not quite there and I'm about to build the Simple Cabsim Jokerx posted above... but what I'd really like to see traced is the cab sim in my HT-dual.  That has an awesome cabsim, to the point where I used to use that as the pedal's output into my marshall vs102r 2x12 combo. Also sounds great DI'd.

Just built that simple cabsim v2 from the layout above, but I subbed a 2n5459 for the j201 and I've got nothing coming out the other end.  AFAICT they have the same pinout and I have no solder bridges... any ideas?  I've used the BC560C and BC550C as per the layout.. 

I Notice from the soldered board and Vero layout that Q2 and Q3 are back to front.
Take note of the transistors flat sides. either the layout or the board have errors.

Quote from: Kipper4 on December 27, 2014, 06:50:00 AM
I Notice from the soldered board and Vero layout that Q2 and Q3 are back to front.
Take note of the transistors flat sides. either the layout or the board have errors.

If you're referring to the vero layout by Doug then you may want to have a look at it again... You can't really just go by part orientation with vero stuff since it snakes in and out and can change directions without notice. So, while Q2 and Q3 appear to be facing the same direction the actual circuit is not.. So, I doubled up on my ADHD meds and had a quick look at the vero.. looks correct to me :icon_wink: but, I reserve for the possibility of being wrong since my brain can only stand about 5 minutes of vero madness before I become distracted by the spot on the wall...  :icon_rolleyes:

I would double/triple check the layout and make sure all of the little red cuts are accounted for, 7 I think? I have only made these using etched layouts and I have only used J201, BC550C and BC560C so, I can't really comment on any others.. But, I don't see why others wouldn't work except they may not work from +5v up to +40v to be used in a wide variety of tube preamps like the original Lart design. In any case I have made scores of these and have not had one that didn't work as the one before etc.. and they all sound consistently the same. As I said before, I like this one the best of almost all of the sims I have tried including some expensive ones! I have what I consider to be some pretty good studio monitors (PreSonus Sceptre) and I have tested this cab sim against mic'd Marshall cabs with various speakers and "to my ears" this sounds the closest. I think the other thing about it is that it has a very real feel.. dynamic, and responsive to harmonics which really come out if you are chuggin on some high gain metal guitar sounds...   

the spot on my wall is present and correct. the Q2 and Q3 are correctly shown for the BC series transistors. the note "(try other pnpn eg 2Nxxxx)" should include a note to the effect that the 2N series is backwards/opposite/reversed to the BC pinout. so the built board would be showing 2N series, the drawn layout showing BC series.

and mind the double link!

Gottya thanks for the clarification Mr 3k

Yeahnah.  I've checked my orientations and all the rest of it, cant find the problem.  Even changed the direction of the 2n5459 to see if that was the problem.

It's obviously not as I'm getting the same nothing as before...

One possibility is that your subbed fet has too high Vgs, datasheet shows 4,5V, so the circuit doesn't bias properly.

You could try to sub a regular npn BJT for the FET (in this particular circuit) to test if the rest of it works.

Of course, if everything else is _as_should_be_ ...

For a while I have wanted to build a cab sim and the schematic in Jims post on the top of page 2 seems pretty simple and I think I have all the parts

I made this vero layout in the train on my way home from work yesterday.

(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51842&g2_serialNumber=2)


I have checked the nodes and it looks OK. If you see anything wrong, let me know.

I built Davison's Easy Cab Sim (DECS) and Sabrotone's Rev2 of the Marshall Cab Sim.  I tested them with a Madbean Boneyard V1, and felt that Davison's nerfed the distortion too much, to the point that there was no difference between the High and Low gain channels.  Rev2 was better than Rev1, and much better than DECS.  Not sure if it's quite there yet though, but it's better than the cab sim on my Behringer Ultra-GI.

There's no image in the post above me - I'd love to make it as I have a stack of BC549 kicking around somewhere.  Maybe I'll get off my arse and have a crack at it myself.

Quote from: Willypp on January 02, 2015, 04:52:13 AM

There's no image in the post above me - I'd love to make it as I have a stack of BC549 kicking around somewhere.  Maybe I'll get off my arse and have a crack at it myself.

The layout is saved in the gallery. Here's a direct link:

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=51842&g2_serialNumber=2

Let me know if you still have problems.

Carsten

So just wanted to say I just built the simple cab sim by Lart (vero layout by YerayM, and it works beautifully. It took me some effort to get it to work as it's quite a dense veroboard.
For the output, I put on a switch to select between a simple jack out or a headphone amp (http://diy.thcustom.com).

Thanks for all the information guys.

Curious to hear the difference between transistors (BC5X0C vs 2N390X). My build is with BC5X0C.

Cheers!

Just as an update to my build of the simple cabsim v2:

I finally got around to getting some j201, and replaced the 2nXXXX that I had in there.  The circuit now works, or at least passes signal.  I haven't had much of a chance yet to make a call on how it sounds but now it's working at least.

Hi everyone...dredging this one up again in hopes of finding some advice...

I wired up Lart's "Simple Cab Rev2.0" using YerayM's vero layout, test drove a few options for Q2 and Q3 (settled on "b" flavours of the recommended BC5XX models), and closed the box.  It definitely creates more of a "pedals into an amp" sound than the pedals do on their own but doesn't come that close to really plugging them into a real amp.  More worrisome to me though is this VERY subtle "ring" overtone (best description I have but maybe not entirely accurate) that I swear I hear on everything.  When I run the sim into a real amp (which defeats the purpose, I know), the subtle overtone becomes MUCH more pronounced.  I'm wondering if it's a poor solder connection somewhere and I plan to investigate that but I can't help but wonder if anyone else might have a more educated guess on what might be causing the ring/whistle/feedback?

Surprise, surprise...a solder bridge!  Removed that and removed the "overtone"...

After playing direct to my recording interface, however, the output was fading in and out. Checked a few suspects but I'm pretty sure two of the transistors were loose in their sockets so I added a quick touch of solder to each of the end sockets and all seems well...for now... :icon_lol:

(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah3/debrad21/20160602_214036_zpsaywskkbh.jpg?t=1464837541)

(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah3/debrad21/20160602_213845_zpsic00dbra.jpg?t=1464837547)

two things - clip those tails, as seen on the right hand jack. the fewer tags of wire, the fewer chances of odd shorts.
and - that black mat - did it come with IC's stuck in it? or is it a dark scotchbrite? if it came w/ IC's, it would suggest antistatic properties, which means conductive ......

it's a good looking and clean box.

Thanks 'D_A'

The black mat is just the "loop" side of some velcro stuck to a piece of double sided tape.  I figured that would keep the board off the aluminum enclosure while, at the same time, "hooking" it in place by catching on some of my soldering.  That should be safe, no?

I will definitely try to tidy up the "tails"...a couple of them look worse than they are due to the angle and lighting of the photo but that lower right jack tip connection should be trimmed.  I actually tried to get it during the build but it is at the "bottom" (the tabs on the left jack are at the "top") and my cutters are too big to get down in there...

use and abuse of velcro. not only safe, but quite a good idea - does it work well? you should maybe cross post the idea in the "velcro is funny" thread, or the "how to hold my board in my enclosure" thread (not their real names).

...so far, so good!  It's the first time I've tried it so I guess we'll see what happens after hanging upside down for a while!

I built the Simple Cabsim Rev2.0, and there is a noticeable drop in volume.  Is this normal?

Also, anyone do a vero layout for the Hot Line 2?

Quote from: caspercody on February 12, 2018, 08:40:17 PM
anyone do a vero layout for the Hot Line 2?

Here ya go, I've yet to verify it though. Should I make a new post for this? It's my first vero layout :icon_redface:
(https://s17.postimg.org/em92nqdy3/Hot_Line_2_vero.png) (https://postimg.org/image/em92nqdy3/)

EDIT v1.1: Looks like I can get away with a couple fewer links and cuts, plus the wiring is more "in order". ;)
(https://s17.postimg.org/8jeh1045n/Hot_Line_2_vero_1.1.png) (https://postimg.org/image/8jeh1045n/)

Do you have the schematic you used to make this vero? I might have time in the next couple of nights to review it.

All the info is here in Russian: http://guitar-gear.ru/2016/hotline2/ (http://guitar-gear.ru/2016/hotline2/)

(I've updated my layout a bit as well)

I just built a V30 simulator from the great KMG.

(https://s9.postimg.org/41ykmugyz/Celestion_V30_Simulator.png) (https://postimg.org/image/41ykmugyz/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/7ybwj44m3/v30m_Sch_S.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7ybwj44m3/)

Someone else did up the vero, but I just verified it works. But, add a 1M resistir at beginning of circuit, and 100K at end to eliminate popping noise.

This is a great cab simulator!!! It has a small volume drop, which i am hoping someone here could help with?

Thanks
Rob

Quote from: caspercody on February 12, 2018, 08:40:17 PM
I built the Simple Cabsim Rev2.0, and there is a noticeable drop in volume.  Is this normal?

Also, anyone do a vero layout for the Hot Line 2?

I've had the same experience with the simple cabsim. I ended up boxing it with an AMZ mosfet booster in the same box  :icon_mrgreen:

rob, have you a better resolution schematic image?

cheers...

You can find schematic and pcb on KMG's website, here (http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/speakersimv30_en.html)

T.

(https://s10.postimg.org/fe19xzwyd/hand_drawn_schematic.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/fe19xzwyd/)

(https://s10.postimg.org/a3wb644th/schematic.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/a3wb644th/)

(https://s10.postimg.org/pcm8jw67p/Vero.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pcm8jw67p/)

Hope these are better. I added more voltage (18v, and 32v) thinking it might make it louder, but it did not.

I also did up the Marshall Speaker cabinet found on Tonepad. This one works, but is very loud, way over unity gain. Added a 100K pot at end to control volume, but when turned down to barely let through full signal, it is still louder then unity gain. Would a bigger pot value give me more control?

Personally I like the ROG Condor and this old Stoned Tone Marshall cab simulator that I built a long time ago and tweaked a little bit (I use this one mostly).

Does  anyone have the schematic for the Lionsound LS14 cab sim? I did find the schematic for the Lionsound 14.0 Dark Angel, but not sure where the cab sim starts. Thinking it is pin 5 of A1.2

Does anyone have any vero layouts for this one, or any of the ones from TrueVal, or Lart?

Thanks
Rob
(https://s18.postimg.org/5wg2n8dn9/14.0_FINAL_gain_mod.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5wg2n8dn9/)

caspercody - check this thread (https://forum.guitarplayer.ru/index.php?topic=173586.360), reply #370 (Ответ #370). There is a LS14 cabsim schematic, pcb, silkscreen. There is also kicad project available.
Vero  (http://vulcanofx.blogspot.com/2014/02/simple-cabsim.html)for Lart's simple cabsim
I have TrueVAL 4x12 cabsim layout bookmarked somewhere but I cannot find it now..

edit/

There it is...   (http://guitar-gear.ru/forum/topic/379-%D0%B1%D1%8E%D0%B4%D0%B6%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9-%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80/page__st__30) schematic - reply#31, pcb in sprint layout format - reply #42

T.

i have this on breadboard at the mo....pretty cool.  best one ive tried so far...

i added a recovery stage....still under unity though...running on 9v..

and also swapped the bottom 10 for a 50k pot...to adjust brightness.


http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/schems/msim.jpg

Thanks Temol!!!!

I had to stop making PCB's, kids around and to many chances of a accident, so I am now doing vero builds. If you happen to find any vero layouts for LionSound or any TrueVal please let me know.

Deadastronaut,

I also built that Marshall cab sim, but my problem is it is too loud. Way above unity. I added a 100K volume but did not help mush in reducing the level. I need to find out how to bring the level down????

I might look at that 50K pot idea.

mine deffo isnt loud....i had to add a recovery stage after it...

i also added a switch to add caps in parallel with the 10n in the 3rd opamp...

are you running on 9v?.

Yes, running at 9 volts.
(https://s10.postimg.org/6p5eiem11/Marshall_Speaker_Sim.gif) (https://postimg.org/image/6p5eiem11/)

drop R2 down to reduce vol....try 4.7k  (i have, seems ok)

removed recovery stage now.....must have messed up before as it seems fine now.. :icon_rolleyes: 8)

I think this is a little better representation of the Marshall sim Rob posted.
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/marshall_speaker_sim_sc.gif

Believe it or not, I don't think I have ever tried this one.. :icon_confused:

That is the same one that I built. It is on the Tonepad site, and SabroTone site.

I have a very loud output, but looking at comments on SabroTone, and on here:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=104498.msg937094#msg937094

I am going to try to replace R1 and R2.

On my KMG V30 cab, I am going to try to replace the first buffer into a non-inverting amp, to give it more gain. Just need to figure out how much gain?

I've built, and boxed that marshall one from Sabrotone.  It really nerfed my distortion for some reason, so now I'm using Lart's Simplecabsim.  Quite pleased with that one.

I changed out R1 and R2 on the Marshall sim cab, and now I am able to lower the overall volume. This sim is really great!!!

Might try the brightness pot DA suggests.

So far I have built the Marshall sim cab, Lart Simplecab, and KMG V30. I love the Marshall the best so far.

I just need to get the volume up on the KMG V30, I just tried to convert the input IC to a non-inverting amp, but the volume was actually lower.

I had a gain of 10,001. I used 1M at R2 and a 100 ohm at R1. Maybe I am not doing it correctly. I had sound just really low in volume.

(https://s9.postimg.org/5ovn19fu3/download.png) (https://postimg.org/image/5ovn19fu3/)

scratch that....after reading samhays comments...


http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=104498.msg937094#msg937094

KMG V30, that IC1b input is a unity gain non-inverting buffer. To give it some gain, leave R1 as it is and replace the feedback wire from pin 6 to 7 by a network like  IC1c has with R6, R7, C4.

Rob,

Are you referring to the input cap value by samhays (reply #14)?

anotherjim,

Thanks, I will try that tonight.

Thanks
Rob

yes,  input cap 4.7n...input resistor 220k, and feedback resistor 220k....

and 4.7n cap out....

i have 2 on/off/on toggles for putting caps in parallel with the existing caps on opamp 3/4...

just gives more 'tonal' options as it can be a tad bright..

I have used the Marshall cabsim a la Tonepad, GGG, etc. and have been pleased with the results. Definitely way loud, but I usually just throw a volume control after it.

I'm really interested now to check out the Hotline 2 as I have now heard too many praising reviews to ignore :P Unfortunately Russian websites tend to be blocked on our work network (surprise ::)) so I won't be able to look at it until I get home.

Vigilante397

Check out reply 54 on this tread

Sorry, reply 52

Ah, excellent, thanks Rob! :) I must have missed that when my slow internet connection wasn't loading the pictures and I was skimming through the thread.

QuoteBelieve it or not, I don't think I have ever tried this one..

I do find that hard to believe.  You have build so many you might have forgot  ;D.

There is this one here on hexeguitar based on the Marshall SE100. Sounds like it might be worth tinkering around with and maybe adding some of the other options that have been left off...

(http://www.hexeguitar.com/images/multithumb_thumbs/b_420_382_16777215_00_images_schm_SE33_pcb.gif)

The transfer pdf is at the bottom of the page.

http://www.hexeguitar.com/diy/utility/se33

I've built many analog cabsisms over the years and the truth is they all sound flat and lifeless. The one that wasn't that bad was the Mesa cabsim with the 1H inductor however it also had several variations and not all of them sounded as good.
After IR modules became available for DIY-ers I moved to impulses. No analog cabsim can beat that.

QuoteAfter IR modules became available for DIY-ers I moved to impulses. No analog cabsim can beat that.

I put together some speaker sim VST's emulating analogue filters which also modelled amp-speaker interractions.  Most parameters/effects were tweakable.  While they sounded OK they don't blow you away.   If you want a specific sound then those notches etc you see on some of the analog filters do put you in the right zone.

Do you have any IR's that you feel are great that you would love to share???

Thanks
Rob

I have to agree about IR's.. To be honest I don't use analog cabins and haven't for some time.. Most of them do sound like sh!t but there are a few that sound fairly good but still not quite as good as IR's. To me the analog sims are a nice addition in a preamp just like some may like a headphone amp... They can be used in a live situation where you have a mic on your cab and running direct from the cabsim at the same time, mix them both to get a fatass sound. Believe it or not, there are allot of guitar players that have really sh!tty cabs and use who knows what to mic them so, an analog sim may be an improvement. You can always use eq and try to improve the sound.. or just use something like ReaEQ and copy the curves of a mic'd up speaker, cab..

The big, huge, enormous, gargantuan (keep going with the significance)...thing about a guitar speaker is NOT represented in cab sims is the effect of that ribbed paper speaker cone. Those ribs produce resonant overtones when working from an effect called "cone breakup". Note that some mistake the term for cone limit (where its pushed or pulled by the voice coil as far as it will go), but breakup actually happens at milli-watt powers.
Hi-fi, PA, monitors, headphones etc do NOT have those ribs. Last century there were ribbed, or part ribbed, PA speakers - some are still around and the 15" make fantastic bass guitar speakers IMHO... but I digress...

I am not sure if it is possible to simulate the sound of cone breakup. I wonder how many digital achieve it. IR processing might.
You at best get cab "eq", with analog. That eq is very useful if that's all you have, but not an accurate solution for guitar.

QuoteI am not sure if it is possible to simulate the sound of cone breakup.

These days almost anything can be simulated in software but there must be some balance between affordable module/hardware and software. The more complicated it gets the more things are shifting to other solutions.
I don't expect an IR to sound like a live kranked up amp but it's much better than all those analog cabsims.

QuoteThese days almost anything can be simulated in software but there must be some balance between affordable module/hardware and software.

It's loosely modeled by peaks which appear just before the speaker response rolls off.  Most of the sims have some form of HF peaking.   A real speaker tends to have a number of high Q-resonances.   Higher Q's ring longer. By the time you put enough in to make a difference you are probably better off going for an IR.  An analog circuit is going to get too complicated beyond the general peaking we already have in the filters.

IR's are excellent....but..

if you just want to plug in and play through 'your pedals', without endlessly fannying about with a pc

or a guitar amp at night then analog it has to be...(unless you spend hundreds on a torpedo etc)

most times i just need to plug in for ten minutes, and get a riff down on a looper while i think of it,

by the time i turn on a pc, setup and tweak,  i lose the initial vibe/feel of what i was going to do ... ::)


anyway, been tinkering a bit more.....its getting there, probably good enough for lil old me anyway..  :)
probably be another 38 pages though as usual.... ;D

You don't have to spend much time in front of the PC. You shouldn't dive too deep into IRs either because there are thousands of them and if you get hooked it's an endless game. Just get a well known recommended package of several dozen free impulses and chose several.
Now you already have several hardware/pedal players on the market (some of them as cheap as $150) so once you have settled on what you're going to use and loaded it IRs into the pedal you're done.
If you're after studio quality IRs setup that's already an entirely different game.

I did buy the Mooer Radar, and knowing nothing about IR's, I have been able to download some free ones, and easily add them into the Radar.

I am using this in the effects loop of my Marshall DSL40C, and it works great. Does anyone have some they would share, or recommend for a great (lets start with) Brown sound type of 4x12?

I love building, and also curious of difference in sound with analog. So I am trying different analog cabsims to get my DIY bug satisfied.   

Quote from: caspercody on March 05, 2018, 03:03:05 PM
I did buy the Mooer Radar, and knowing nothing about IR's, I have been able to download some free ones, and easily add them into the Radar.

I am using this in the effects loop of my Marshall DSL40C, and it works great. Does anyone have some they would share, or recommend for a great (lets start with) Brown sound type of 4x12?

I love building, and also curious of difference in sound with analog. So I am trying different analog cabsims to get my DIY bug satisfied.

I have the Radar and it's one of the best things I have purchased in a long time!! Not sure why you're running it in the FX loop? I have the Blacknight micro preamp also and it's unbelievable! You get Axe-FX / Kemper quality in a $100 pedal! Hard  to beat these things!

If you want to add IR options to your builds then you could get Pangaea module board and fool around with it...
https://amt-sales.com/cabsim/
http://amtelectronics.com/new/manuals/AMT-Pangaea-CP-16M-ENG.pdf
http://amtelectronics.com/new/manuals/AMT-CP-16M-EB-ENG.pdf
(http://amtelectronics.com/new/manuals/Pangaea-CP-16-M-ENG-2.jpg)

I am using the speaker on the amp. To me it is the best way to get the amp to sound is through the FX loop.

^ doesnt that kind of defeat a cab sims purpose....but hey if it sounds good..

anyway, im tinkering with this so i can go direct out of my pedals into my mixer..with no amp at all...

signal : guitar/pedals/ (cab sim on breadboard) mixer/monitors



jim; those pangea things look cool... 8)

QuoteI am using the speaker on the amp.

So why are you using a cab/speaker sim then?

I have the AMT module. It's doing a pretty good job. The software has a lot of options as well.

Quote from: MetalGuy
I have the AMT module. It's doing a pretty good job. The software has a lot of options as well.

Could you post pictures of your implementation of the AMT module? Did you build standalone unit or use it as a part of the pedal?

T.

With using it in the f/x loop, I can change the sound easily by clicking on a pedal or rotating the switch on the Radar without always changing a eq. And it sounds so much better!!!!!!

I do not have a computer set up to play through, plus like DA said earlier, just easier to sit down turn on amp and play.

Plus, I have a addiction to creating pedals, and right now there is not much more I can think of that I want to build. Thinking a EP3 preamp, and maybe a Timmy, but these damn cabsims can easily change the sound, it is hard not to make more. I am going to build the DSM multicab, since it is tweak-able.

QuoteCould you post pictures of your implementation of the AMT module? Did you build standalone unit or use it as a part of the pedal?

It was a standalone unit but I don't have it right now because I friend of mine is using it for live gigs. It was based on AMT's dev board (schematic is officially available, SMDs, PCB was 115x98mm) but I had to draw and order a custom enclosure for it to include all inputs and outputs properly. If you make it simple it will fit in a regular 1590 box. However if you want simple standalone unit currently you can't beat Radar's. If you want IR's built in into an existing or new device ten it's worth getting the AMT module. By the way rumors are a new more simple but much more powerful (longer IRs) module is coming out soon and at lower price as well.

ive been playing with all sorts of sim circuits lately...

while i was at it i went back to very, very crude basics...

a simple passive LP filter...works pretty good for something so basic.


in----5kb pot-------------out
                             /
                             /
                            ---
                            ---  22n-100nf
                             /
                             gnd

anyway...back to the breadboard... :)

There was a thread many moons about it.   Two stages works OK.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=73342.0

Here the schematic with the dead link,
(https://s9.postimg.org/r78dr43rf/gg_passive_sim_v10.png) (https://postimg.org/image/r78dr43rf/)

IIRC it needed a bit more hf roll-off.

Wouldn't be hard to some low cut with a series cap.

Cool. Cheers rob.

I will pop him on the breadboard too...

QuoteI will pop him on the breadboard too...

I just noticed, as drawn the circuit has some deliberate signal loss.

To reduce the signal loss:
- R1 and R2 can be replaced by R1 = 1.2k and R2 = open
- R3 = 5.1k or R3=5.6k and R4 = 47k

All I'm doing here is removing signal loss from the dividers without stuffing up the response too much.
Like if you had R1 = 1.0k and R3 = 4.7k and played with the caps that would be fine.

cheers rob, yup, just tried that...pretty cool as an experiment. can be added in a pinch..nifty 8)

these look interesting from that thread too...

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=38207&g2_


anyway, im going to try the hexe site marshall jmp1 from here next, i like the idea of an headphone out too. 8)

http://www.hexeguitar.com/images/schm/JMP1-cabsim.gif

back to the breadboard... :)

just tried that jmp1 circuit, no joy....no sound.

i'll re bread it later, but it should work as it is yes?

Looks like that JMP-1 scheme is intended for a bipolar +15V/-15V supply.  You can see it at the top of this more complete schematic (http://4tubes.com/SCHEMATICS/Music-amps/Marshall/JMP%201/jmp12.gif).

yup it is , gotya.... cheers bunny..

There is also single supply version available http://heavypage.narod.ru/shems/speakersim_jmp.gif (http://heavypage.narod.ru/shems/speakersim_jmp.gif)

and stripboard layout
(https://s18.postimg.org/3otbhr0hx/jmp1_cab_simulator.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3otbhr0hx/)

T.

brilliant, cheers temol .

8)


edit: yup, that works ok...cheers.. 8)

how this? i know nothing about spice
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-obVEkKVBhK8/WsTTWsnKUBI/AAAAAAAAAus/nqmx0cr0kd0Gf8lQcd2K3UDoBQ9KwNVLgCLcBGAs/s1600/2bc549.png)

ive run out of breadboards lol...

287m - this circuit looks like TrueVAL's design :)

Left - simplecabsim by Lart, right - from schematic that you've posted

(https://s18.postimg.org/o97c7yv39/simple_simple.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o97c7yv39/)

T.

Quote from: temol on April 04, 2018, 11:14:36 AM
287m - this circuit looks like TrueVAL's design :)

Left - simplecabsim by Lart, right - from schematic that you've posted

(https://s18.postimg.org/o97c7yv39/simple_simple.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o97c7yv39/)

T.

Aha! dig trueVaL and Jokerx folder.
its just messed the value, right?  :D

bored, cant solder anything
here the try spice, compare jmp from Hexeguitar and heavypage value
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-S47f4dWyGSw/WsTyAwVh6SI/AAAAAAAAAvE/oegPj9Tp370xkQiI2FnJ6HClpeBK6ecFgCLcBGAs/s1600/jmp.png)

ah, where drp cabsim? nobody like that?  :icon_eek:

Quote from: deadastronaut on April 04, 2018, 09:34:01 AM
ive run out of breadboards lol...

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!   :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:

Quotecheers rob, yup, just tried that...pretty cool as an experiment. can be added in a pinch..nifty 8)

these look interesting from that thread too...

As far as value for effort go those simple circuits have a lot to offer.
Beyond that it's amazing how each small improvement makes the circuit grow and grow.

I've seen quite a few people in various forums saying how great the Blackstar emulated out is so, I converted a couple from bipolar. I haven't built them but, I tested them in NI Multisim and they seem to be working good enough...

http://imgbox.com/g/rxlJR2queP (http://imgbox.com/g/rxlJR2queP)

cheers jim, added to the ever expanding folder of 'sims' 8)


another 2 for the breado... :)

The HT5 circuit looks a bit like the Marshall JMP1.
For kicks I plotted the response of the two Blackstars and the Two Marshalls.
The LF response options of the HT5 is kind of "up" and "down" of the Marshall JMP1.
The HT1 response looks a bit like some of the HK units.

For the JMP1 I've use 3.9k on the last stage.  (IIRC some schematics used 3.3k).

The HT5 shows the shelf above 10kHz.

(https://s17.postimg.cc/rjwedgluj/blackstar_vs_marshall.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/rjwedgluj/)


Oh, yeah,  keep in mind the vertical scaling might not match what yours ears perceive as equal levels.   So don't read the graphs too precisely.  Try to picture shifting the curves up and down over a small range when you compare two curves.

Quote from: Rob Strand on April 13, 2018, 08:51:26 PM
The HT5 circuit looks a bit like the Marshall JMP1.
For kicks I plotted the response of the two Blackstars and the Two Marshalls.
The LF response options of the HT5 is kind of "up" and "down" of the Marshall JMP1.
The HT1 response looks a bit like some of the HK units.

I thought the same about the HT5 circuit looking similar to the JMP1 which made me curious... I listened to a couple youtube videos of the HT1 and HT5 emulated out and they didn't sound too bad. So, I dropped them into Multisim, plotted the responses against the JMP1 and got nearly the same results as you did. I ended up tweaking both of them and I think improved the HT1 quite a bit. The HT5 just needed to be brought down a bit and I ended up ditching the 1x12 switch... May add it back later but from a different angle..

im not breadboard guy.  :icon_cry:

just curious, what happen (in real life) if we ditch 1n5 and 12k in choice switch? and add 1M bias resistor in IC1b?
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-C0ZNyF26RrE/WtIMpLMqyBI/AAAAAAAAAwM/DIiKYQK2nh8yuPP0YjmNMg7vbhRzqESqwCLcBGAs/s1600/ht5-mods.png)

Yeah, I only have access to a tablet PC right now so breadboard is not an option for me at the moment. If you look at this link http://schems.com/bmampscom/blackstar/  check out the ds2it schematic. It's a variation of the HT5 schematic without the switching.

Quoteust curious, what happen (in real life) if we ditch 1n5 and 12k in choice switch? and add 1M bias resistor in IC1b?

It's while since I played with that idea.  At 30dB down it's going to be subtle.  There's a few units out there that do this in various ways.  To some degree it is similar to leaking a very small amount of dry signal through (but you get the shelf on the low end as well).  Also, the shelf often results when you try to add a notch.


EDIT: I think JOK3RX 290R should be 390R ?

QuoteYeah, I only have access to a tablet PC right now so breadboard is not an option for me at the moment. If you look at this link http://schems.com/bmampscom/blackstar/  check out the ds2it schematic. It's a variation of the HT5 schematic without the switching.

The thing about cam sims is there different usage scenarious and the "right" EQ depends on where you put them in the chain.

Scenario 1:      Guitar ---> Effect --->  Amp  + Speaker --->  CabSim -> Desk/Record
   The Amp/Speaker interaction adds some bass and treble boost so the Cab Sim only needs
    to emulate the speaker.

Scenario 2:      Guitar ---> Effect --->  Amp  Line/Preamp out  --->  CabSim -> Desk/Record
    The Amp/Speaker interaction is lost so the Cab Sim need to include the bass and treble boost.

    The Marshall SE100 and HK Red Box pro are some of the few that use different EQ for
    lineout and speaker out connection.

Scenario 3:      Guitar ---> Effect ----+--->  Amp  etc
                                                       --->   CabSim -> Desk/Record
    The Amp/Speaker interaction is lost so the Cab Sim need to include the bass and treble boost.
    The EQ of the amplifier is lost, typically being some form of mid-cut.
    The "Cab sim" is now really a cab sim + crude amp EQ sim as it needs to put back the mid-cut.

An example is this one.  The marketing YT videos show effects plugged straight into the unit then recorded.
You can see deeper mid cuts.
http://www.tonebone.com/jdxdirectdrive-specs.php

The Hotline 2 has a cab switch, one setting is flat but there are two other "cabs" which have 400HZ and 800Hz notches. It's difficult to say if these are different cabs or simply covering different usage scenarios.

The ds2it schematic shows some form of mid cut notch before the cab sim.

Scenario 4:      Guitar ---> Distortion Effect with CabSim  or Tube Preamp with CabSim output -> Desk/Record

These cases get pretty blurred as it is difficult to know what part is the effect and what part is the cab sim.
It's not uncommon for the "cab sim" part to have no bass roll-off.  We know that is technically wrong.  The
bass cut-off is usually part of the distortion circuit so the distortions low-cut kinds of covers the speaker's low cut as well.

On top of all that is if you want to add the effect of the mic.

Anyway the main point I wanted to make is the use scenario affects what the "right" eq is.

I've had this idea for some time (like 5 years) but I hadn't  had a chance to gather the data accurately.  It uses the "Wisdom of the Crowds" idea.   I often call it "Wisdom of the Cows" because if you have a lot of "dumb" info the result follows the dumb.  It can't pluck out a single expert opinion which is watered down by general stupidity.

Basically you take a sh#t load of "good" responses, say in dB, then take the average of all of them.  The result is the "centre of good".      The cool thing about using dB is any gain offsets have no effect on the final *shape* of the average response.

You can expand this idea by assigning stronger weights to responses  that are deemed better and lower weights to poorer ones.     If you use weights that are "judge by you" then the average response is the one *you* like.   You kind of remove the "dumb" outcomes. (However, be careful about pulling samples: a unit might have good qualities, say good bass end, but you don't like it overall as it is too bright. There is good and bad.)

Anyway,  so as not to pool too much dissimilar data I tried to isolate some cab sims which had the following common characteristics:
- accepted a line level signal.
- closed box or non-specific.
- have been used by some of the masses with some level of "good" feedback (and obviously bad as well.)
- must have reasonable high-pass and low-pass cut-offs.   No skimped designs or designs which don't roll-off the low-end.

This is no means an exhaustive study.  I wanted to test the idea.    I used to idea using 17 cab sims as data.  The responses are plotted on top of one another.   What is clear is that even though these are considered OK there is an enormous variation.   How can we make sense of it?

(https://s17.postimg.cc/roe5ggkjf/speakersim_all.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/roe5ggkjf/)

Anyway by treating the 17 responses as votes for candidates, I computed the average and median responses.   The result was quite cool.   I've plotted the results below with a few other cab sims so they can be compared:

(https://s17.postimg.cc/wn1nv2od7/speakersum_avg_med_selected.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/wn1nv2od7/)

I suspect the result sounds quite acceptable.  The good thing is the median and average are close.  I've got a circuit which matches the resulting responses but I haven't yet tried to tweak it.

The result should be interpreted as the least offensive to all people.   Keep in mind it was based on relatively good cab sims to start with.      However, also keep in mind if you like a specific tone (bright, dark, bottom heavy) it is unlikely to be correct because you are at an extreme.

Note also the idea of leaking some HF through does not come out in the results because only a few units do that and that info gets watered down.   However it could turn out this is a good idea.   In that case it would be an example where the ideas of a small number of experts gets watered down by the masses.

It's interesting it is not too far off some of the responses of other units, despite the messy starting point data.  Does that mean these designs have sort out the central goodness by trial and error?

The last comment I wanted to make is I didn't use some designs as input data because they had variable controls.  Usually variable controls go to extremes and it is difficult to know where the actual good zone is located, which is much narrower than the range offered.  I would have to build them then narrow it down myself.

[EDIT:  I've added a comparison with the hotline 2 (setting: flatter cab, sand pot mid position 5k, accent on)
(https://s7.postimg.cc/mnywj69d3/speakersim_avg_med_selected2.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/mnywj69d3/)

Anyway it was just an idea and I wanted to see how it panned out.

QuoteYeah, I only have access to a tablet PC right now so breadboard is not an option for me at the moment. If you look at this link http://schems.com/bmampscom/blackstar/  check out the ds2it schematic. It's a variation of the HT5 schematic without the switching.

I noticed some differences between your HT5 schematic and the factory schematic.
1) At Input, CB switch:   5.1k,     factory 9.1k
2) First low-pass filter:   2x10k,   factory 2x18k
3) Output terminal:        290R,    factory 390R

Are they mods you did or just typos?

FYI.  I had a quick play with the Wisdom of the Cows cab sim.   I transferred filters to DSP because I could do that quicker than building a circuit.   It sounds OK.  I think its sounds close to the JMP1 and the Hotline 2.   The variable highs on the Hotline2 does have something to offer particularly if you use a lot of overdrive.    If you want to do metal chunking you probably want more low end.  The VAL Version 7 2012 has a a lot of bottom end and a variable low-end control.

Quote from: Rob Strand on April 15, 2018, 08:07:57 PM
(https://s17.postimg.cc/roe5ggkjf/speakersim_all.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/roe5ggkjf/)

Thanks very much for this, Rob. I absolutely love this sort of stuff. It's proper work done with real data! It's brilliant to see so many collected responses compared like that, and interesting to look at the ways they are similar and the ways in which they differ.

One way of making sense of the variation in cab sims is to point out that not all cabs are the same either. Some of these might be looking for a 4x12 sound, or a 2x12, or something more "tweedy", or something more Champ or whatever. So how you sort that out to come up with an overall cab sim I have no idea. But the data does present several interesting ideas for ways a circuit could add some tweakability without getting ridiculous.

They all follow a general pattern of low-end rolloff, a low hump, slightly/not so slightly scooped mids, high hump, and rolled off treble. That's basically a highpass filter with a slightly variable cutoff and a tweak able resonance (amount of low hump) and similarly for the high - a lowpass filter with a tweak able cutoff and resonance. If you used a filter where passband gain decreases with resonance, you'd get more mid scoop as you increased the humpiness. It wouldn't necessarily be any particular cab sim, but it might allow you to get in the same region as quite few.

Fascinating stuff. Thanks again for doing the hard work.

Tom

QuoteOne way of making sense of the variation in cab sims is to point out that not all cabs are the same either. Some of these might be looking for a 4x12 sound, or a 2x12, or something more "tweedy", or something more Champ or whatever.

Yes it's tricky.   It's one of those things where you can't please everybody.  The compilation tries to contain closed box (ideally 4x12) and non-specific cases.   Even with that restriction the variation is enormous.

An interesting thing I noticed was the Blackstar HT1 has more low-end roll-off than the Blackstar HT5, despite coming from the same company.    The HT1 is a combo with an 8" speaker so you would want the Cab Sim to sound something like the combo speaker.  The HT5 is a head which is why it offers a closed box/open box switch; there is a combo version with a 1x12" .  So obviously the HT1 needs more roll-off. However, maybe the HT1 would sound better connected to a 4x12" cab - so a better sounding cab sim would have more low-end!

QuoteSo how you sort that out to come up with an overall cab sim I have no idea. But the data does present several interesting ideas for ways a circuit could add some tweakability without getting ridiculous.

I'm convinced you need some form of tweakability.   Some units have a mic position knob  but you have to really question whether that is actually the right thing.  Like if the sim it self doesn't sound like a speaker why have a knob which tweaks a secondary effect?

The cool thing about moving stuff to DSP is I can move the filters around.   For example I can shift the low-pass filter up and down by 5% or 10% and listen to the difference.  On distorted guitar you can hear a difference.   

For the VAL 7 simulator the author gave some samples for unprocessed samples and processed samples.   When I transferred that cabsim to DSP I only approximated the response.  It was still close and I could verify the response of the DSP filter against the spice simulation of the circuit.   When I processed the author's unprocessed samples with the DSP filter they didn't sound *exactly* the same.  I looked at the spectrum and I could see the HF cut-off on the processed samples was about 5% higher.  When I shifted the DSP low-pass filters up 5% the difference was much less.  I'm thinking the 5% could be due to parts variation.  However I also noticed the processed samples had a tad more bass, which was also audible.    The interesting thing is some small differences are audible.

QuoteThey all follow a general pattern of low-end rolloff, a low hump, slightly/not so slightly scooped mids, high hump, and rolled off treble. That's basically a highpass filter with a slightly variable cutoff and a tweak able resonance (amount of low hump) and similarly for the high - a lowpass filter with a tweak able cutoff and resonance. If you used a filter where passband gain decreases with resonance, you'd get more mid scoop as you increased the humpiness. It wouldn't necessarily be any particular cab sim, but it might allow you to get in the same region as quite few.

Yes most have that pattern. Some leave off the low-cut but it's still somewhere in the signal chain as I mentioned earlier.   To a large degree this pattern is what a loudspeaker does.   The small amount of mid-scoop often comes for free as part of the low and high peaks.  I've noticed some of the bass end tweaks are OK for clean but not so great for metal chunking.  In the past, in DSP, I've created knobs which do various things or do two things at a time and they sometimes sound OK but the always leave you asking for more.     For an analog circuit, the minimalist recipe would be like:
- bass tweak (like VAL 7),
- treble tweak (like the Hotline 2),
- perhaps some mid notches (like the Hotline 2) for different use cases.

You definitely don't want 50 options where only 5 sound good!

As far as covering the most bases how the low end is adjusted makes a big difference.

There still some work to be done on the high-end like is notching (eg. Lart 2 and VAL 7.0) better than just a low-pass?   I know it can be made to sound quite close.   And is leaking some high-end through a good thing?

QuoteFascinating stuff. Thanks again for doing the hard work.

No worries.    I thought I put it up instead of leaving it on my hard disk with the rest of my silly ponderings.

Has someone built this one??

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=70445.0

João

Quote from: jhsa on May 10, 2018, 11:04:34 AM
Has someone built this one??

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=70445.0

João

Yep.. in 1590A and 1590B enclosures. Nice sounding device.

T.

A friend of mine got me to fix his DSM OmniCabSim (V1) so i took the opportunity to trace it out, it's pencil squiggles at the moment but I can put it into kiCad if anyone's interested?

Even pencil sounds good to me. Thank you!

Quote from: temol on May 10, 2018, 11:30:41 AM

Quote from: jhsa on May 10, 2018, 11:04:34 AM
Has someone built this one??

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=70445.0

João

Yep.. in 1590A and 1590B enclosures. Nice sounding device.

T.

Thank you.. I am just about to build one but I am not sure it is really what I want.
When I play live I connect my guitar directly to my SC Ui12 mixer. it has some Digitech am simulators on channels 1 and 2, but I don't really like them. By connecting the guitar directly to the mixer I get loads of fizz when using my overdrive pedal..  A good cab simulator is supposed to cake care of this fizz, right?
Also, I need the cab sim to be always ON no matter what pedal i am using, so no need for true bypass..
No, a real amp is not an option :) I need to take as few things as I can. Not getting any younger here :D

João

Choosing a cab is a personal preference so it's hard to give any advice. I've built several cabsims and this one is somewhere high on my "I like it" list, mainly because of adjustability of the parameters, but also because of the sound.

ps. Check this forum thread. (https://tinyurl.com/y8lcb3xc)

T.

Quote from: jhsa on May 10, 2018, 03:36:10 PMSC Ui12

Why not implement the cabsim frequency response in the mixer's channel EQ? You have 4-band parametric EQ + Highpass, which is more than most analog cabsims offer. Or just use the graphic EQ.

Quote from: FiveseveN on May 10, 2018, 04:29:34 PM

Quote from: jhsa on May 10, 2018, 03:36:10 PMSC Ui12

Why not implement the cabsim frequency response in the mixer's channel EQ? You have 4-band parametric EQ + Highpass, which is more than most analog cabsims offer. Or just use the graphic EQ.

I think this is something to try..
I have been looking at this, perhaps I can emulate with the Ui's parametrics. You forgot the de-esser as well, so, 6 controls. ;) :)
But with the channel EQ emulating the speaker, I believe I might need some kind of preamp with tone control, right?

Thanks

João

Quote from: temol on May 10, 2018, 04:15:18 PM
Choosing a cab is a personal preference so it's hard to give any advice. I've built several cabsims and this one is somewhere high on my "I like it" list, mainly because of adjustability of the parameters, but also because of the sound.

ps. Check this forum thread. (https://tinyurl.com/y8lcb3xc)

T.

Thank you.

João

Quote from: temol on May 10, 2018, 04:15:18 PM
Choosing a cab is a personal preference so it's hard to give any advice. I've built several cabsims and this one is somewhere high on my "I like it" list, mainly because of adjustability of the parameters, but also because of the sound.

ps. Check this forum thread. (https://tinyurl.com/y8lcb3xc)

T.

Do you have a link for the Bajaman mod to the Simple Cabsim? I can't find it..  :(
A friend of mine also listened to your cabsim recordings and liked more the simple cabsim (both flavors)

Thanks

João

Link  (https://tinyurl.com/yc65menh)to the mod.

T.

Thank You..

João

QuoteChoosing a cab is a personal preference so it's hard to give any advice.

Indeed.

I did this experiment:
- Get sounds clips from a good sounding speaker sim which gives both the sim and non-sim output.
- Feed the non-sim output in another speaker sim that sounds good.   

Obviously the results are quite different.  The interesting thing is it often doesn't sound that great.   I am very suspicious the amp settings are tweaked for good sound on one sim and they wouldn't be the amp settings used for the other sim.    To some degree amp eq can tweak the EQ to compensate for the the speaker sim.

A recording from a mic'd 4x12 wasn't too far off the V30 cabsim, which was recommended in this thread.  Perhaps a knock the lows down a bit.  It can be tweaked somewhat but you could do a lot worse.   Compared to the Lart and Val sims the V30 sim sounds a bit muddy for metal.

Quotehttps://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=70445.0

The ability to vary the high-end seems very desirable because it can adjust for people's preferences.
Adjustable low end seems worthwhle as well maybe a switch would do.

Quote
Obviously the results are quite different.  The interesting thing is it often doesn't sound that great.   I am very suspicious the amp settings are tweaked for good sound on one sim and they wouldn't be the amp settings used for the other sim.    To some degree amp eq can tweak the EQ to compensate for the the speaker sim.

Exactly. Given sim can shine with one amp/preamp but with the other amp it might be just average

T.

I am not into metal :) I do use some good overdrive though.. I also like some light(er) distortion/overdrive. Not into fuzz.
I like a really good clean sound out of my Fender Strat. I play several different types of music.
What I am looking for is just taking that distortion fizz away when directly plugged to the mixer through my pedals or pedalboard.
I am building the stock Simple Cabsim as i type this, and will try to still test it tonight without waking my neighbors up ;) :D

João

Guys, it seems that at least the Simple Cabsim is working, but it is not doing what I expected (or was hoping :) ) it to do :(
It seems there is still a lot of fizz with the distortion.. i gotta say that it seems it improved the clean sound. I did 2 recordings but I can't upload them to the forum. is it possible to add mp3 files somehow? Or can we only add images? :(
Te first recording was without the Cabsim, and the second with it. The mixer's channel EQ was bypassed.
Shame that i can't upload the files :(

joão

jhsa - You really need some sort of preamp in your signal chain... It should be somewhere before the cab/speaker sim before you run into the channel on the mixing console. It is also important where you connect the other pedals in the signal chain. Like if you use delay, chorus or reverb you may want to insert them between the preamp and cab sim or after the cab sim or maybe better to run them into the effects send/return on the channel of the mixing console. Other pedals like overdrive should be before the preamp etc.. In any case, you should get a preamp because the cab sim alone is not a preamp. It's just a filter that has been designed to shape the signal coming from a guitar preamp and make it sound somewhat like a complete guitar amp and cab being mic'd up. As was said earlier, the cab sim may sound vastly different depending on what preamp you throw in front of it and I am fairly certain that it's gonna sound like a sh!tty mess without any preamp at all...  :icon_wink:

Quote from: jhsa on May 11, 2018, 07:36:52 PM
I did 2 recordings but I can't upload them to the forum. is it possible to add mp3 files somehow? Or can we only add images? :(
Te first recording was without the Cabsim, and the second with it. The mixer's channel EQ was bypassed.
Shame that i can't upload the files :(

joão

You can upload the files. You just can't upload them directly to the forum  :P

You have to upload them to a file hosting site of your choice and then post a link here in the forum.

QuoteSimple Cabsim

The Lart V2 simple cab sim lets through quite a bit more highs than say the V30 sim.
This is where preference can come in.   It's possible to remove some highs by
modifying the filters, especially the last stage.  However I'm reluctant to suggest ad-hoc
mods and create yet another speaker sim.

Quote from: J0K3RX on May 12, 2018, 01:59:45 AM
jhsa - You really need some sort of preamp in your signal chain...

I thought of that, and thank you for the confirmation. I did try a Valvecaster circuit between the last pedal and the cabsim and it seems to get a bit better as far as fizz was concerned.

QuoteIt is also important where you connect the other pedals in the signal chain. Like if you use delay, chorus or reverb you may want to insert them between the preamp and cab sim or after the cab sim or maybe better to run them into the effects send/return on the channel of the mixing console. Other pedals like overdrive should be before the preamp etc..

To test this I have a compressor, then a OD and then a delay just before the cabsim. then straight into the mixer.
My mixer doesn't have channel " Effect Inserts". It is a little SC Ui12 digital mixer. Love it to bits by the way but that is for another topic :)

QuoteIn any case, you should get a preamp because the cab sim alone is not a preamp. It's just a filter that has been designed to shape the signal coming from a guitar preamp and make it sound somewhat like a complete guitar amp and cab being mic'd up. As was said earlier, the cab sim may sound vastly different depending on what preamp you throw in front of it and I am fairly certain that it's gonna sound like a sh!tty mess without any preamp at all... 

Understood :)
Any good DIY preamp I should try?

Thank you

João

P.S. - Forgot to say. When I perform, I use my BOSS pedalboard most of the time. What I am trying to do is to have an alternative setup that is completely built my myself. I have been messing with electronics since a few years and I love to build my own stuff. That goes also to my radio control Airplanes hobby. I build radios, receivers, sensors, etc. So many cool projects and very little time :) ;)

Quote from: Rob Strand on May 12, 2018, 04:06:14 AM

QuoteSimple Cabsim

The Lart V2 simple cab sim lets through quite a bit more highs than say the V30 sim.
This is where preference can come in.   It's possible to remove some highs by
modifying the filters, especially the last stage.  However I'm reluctant to suggest ad-hoc
mods and create yet another speaker sim.

as Temol mentioned in a post somewhere above, the simple cabsim can be modded to output less highs. It is a mod by Bajaman..
I will try building this after. I don't have any 39nF caps and 560pF caps. So, i will need to parallel some but this will make it huge :(

One thing I wanted to do with the Simple CabSim if it works good for me, is to build a simple DI Box circuit and put it in the same enclosure, probably on the same board. I was thinking about something like this single FET DI Box.

http://tataylino.com/simple-di-box/


João

Not really sure with that mixer you're using.. It has a hi-z input and it looks like you can enable/disable it in the digitech interface. You could try to diy padded xlr cable or you could build a di box I guess but, it seems like you could get a good or at least acceptable sound with what you have. I had a digitech rp1000 and I sorta liked the amp and cab models and the clean sounds were really good. Compared to other digital modeling processors it had a more realistic tone and feel unlike Line6 garbage which I absolutely hate! Maybe try to diy a h&k redbox and kill 2 birds with one stone. I have and they really sound pretty good.. The new redbox 5 looks great but I haven't seen any schematics floating around, yet.

Quote from: J0K3RX on May 12, 2018, 12:57:44 PM
Not really sure with that mixer you're using.. It has a hi-z input and it looks like you can enable/disable it in the digitech interface. You could try to diy padded xlr cable or you could build a di box I guess but, it seems like you could get a good or at least acceptable sound with what you have. I had a digitech rp1000 and I sorta liked the amp and cab models and the clean sounds were really good. Compared to other digital modeling processors it had a more realistic tone and feel unlike Line6 garbage which I absolutely hate! Maybe try to diy a h&k redbox and kill 2 birds with one stone. I have and they really sound pretty good.. The new redbox 5 looks great but I haven't seen any schematics floating around, yet.

have an original RedBox MKIII (Quite old) and the output signal is weaker then the input. It also does not remove that fizzy sound when using overdrive. I also built 2 other Di Boxes already.
About the RedBox, I have the feeling that at least the one I own is not very well designed, specially the output stage where they have 6K8 resistors on the output and 470 Ohm resistors to get the phantom power.. I think they are swapped?? :o First i thought it was a flay on the DIY design, but then I have measured the original and it is really like that. I was going to build one but decided not to, and went for the ESP design instead. 
I also saw a very simple DY circuit yesterday (picture attached), and thought that I could try it at the output of the simple CabSim, and even build it on the same board
(https://s31.postimg.cc/9b50l6izb/FET_dibox.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/9b50l6izb/)

I just need to build a good clean preamp to be connected before the Simple CabSim...

João

Quoteave an original RedBox MKIII (Quite old)  ... It also does not remove that fizzy sound when using overdrive.

My understanding is the RedBox MKIII is similar to the Redbox Classic.   The Redbox Classic lets a bit more highs through than some. Probably around the same zone as the Lart 2.0 simple cabsim.

The bajaman mods might help however this one does still let some upper top-end get through.
After that try the V30 sim or the Marshall JTM.

If you had a variable high-freq control you can dial in the amount of fizz.

Quote from: Rob Strand on May 13, 2018, 07:06:24 PM

My understanding is the RedBox MKIII is similar to the Redbox Classic.

It is  :) 

QuoteThe bajaman mods might help however this one does still let some upper top-end get through.
After that try the V30 sim or the Marshall JTM.

I will also build another Simple Cabsim with the bajaman mod. For the moment I am testing the original version. I can't say that I am disappointed, far from it, but still didn't use it enough to say that I like it :)

QuoteIf you had a variable high-freq control you can dial in the amount of fizz.

The problem is not just dial in the amount of fizz, it is doing it without hurting the  overall sound  :-[  :o
I have been busy building this today


(https://s31.postimg.cc/4v5lixmon/Solid_State_Preamp_MOD_Schematic_1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4v5lixmon/)

Then I connected the Simple CabSim between this preamp and my mixer. Channel EQ on the mixer was bypassed. I did like it. The amount of fizz on the speakers was acceptable. I can probably use the mixer's parametric EQ to get rid of it completely. The problem was the recording and my in ear monitor. On the monitor it was terrible, lots of fizz. but still, it was an improvement. The clean sound was quite good, for my taste of course :)


João

Hey Guys, would the simple CabSim be happy at about 15V?

Thanks


(https://s31.postimg.cc/lxun2l5qf/Simple_Cab_Sim_VERO3.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/lxun2l5qf/)

Quote from: jhsa on May 17, 2018, 12:15:53 PM
Hey Guys, would the simple CabSim be happy at about 15V?

Thanks


(https://s31.postimg.cc/lxun2l5qf/Simple_Cab_Sim_VERO3.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/lxun2l5qf/)

Yes, as long as your caps are rated at or above 15V.

Great, thank you..
When I built it, I left space on the veroboard to add this simple balanced driver circuit.
Added another 4,7K between the cabsim's 1uF output capacitor and the balanced driver circuit.
it does seem to work well and no need for a DI Box :)

João


(https://s31.postimg.cc/doa1gc1ef/Simple_Cab_Sim_rev2_With_JFET_DI_SCH.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/doa1gc1ef/)

Just going to say that I've put Lart's simple sim on vero in my DI, and I'm loving it tbh.  This thing has a klon buffer, sonic stomp, lart's simple cabsim, and TH's Line Driver driving an XLR output and 1/4 unbalanced out (as well as an uneffected 1/4 out after the buffer).

(https://s9.postimg.cc/pdx7jwb4r/22195755_1681931865202810_1875262767841535142_n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/pdx7jwb4r/)

nice... 8)

What about bass cab sims ? Are there any schematics around ?

Very good job in there :)

Yeah, the simple CabSim does a wonderful job. I used a 1 transistor Balanced driver though, and it works really well.. Keep it simple :)  :D

João

QuoteI used a 1 transistor Balanced driver though, and it works really well..

Got a link for that?

Quote from: Willypp on May 25, 2018, 08:50:26 AM

QuoteI used a 1 transistor Balanced driver though, and it works really well..

Got a link for that?

Sorry, I didn't see your post before :(

I did post it a few posts above, but here it is again. It is very simple. I did increase all resistors to 10K and I am supplying it with 18V. No problems so far

João

(https://s33.postimg.cc/x25lq28sb/FET_dibox.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/x25lq28sb/)

Here's the other Lart cabsim (not the simple cabsim 2) and I was messing around with it a little.. I think Temol built it and provided a sound sample for it also. Anyway, I am am a fan of the Simple CabSim v2 for it's simple design, and realistic sound so of course I'm gonna try the new Lart cabsim :icon_wink:

I found that if I bypassed the 2 filters back to the pin7/R12 junction the plot looks almost the same as the simple cabsim v2. So I added the 50k pot so I can fade between the two. The other pots I added look a bit odd alone but all working together should give you some interesting variations. The plots at the bottom show all the other pots set at 0 and then the given pot alone at 100%. The last one VR4 show it at 50% and 100% and you know what 0% looks like from the other plots.

(https://images2.imgbox.com/44/46/RcvNTxaP_o.jpg)

Quote from: jhsa on May 28, 2018, 10:24:14 AM

Quote from: Willypp on May 25, 2018, 08:50:26 AM

QuoteI used a 1 transistor Balanced driver though, and it works really well..

Got a link for that?

Sorry, I didn't see your post before :(

I did post it a few posts above, but here it is again. It is very simple. I did increase all resistors to 10K and I am supplying it with 18V. No problems so far

João

(https://s33.postimg.cc/x25lq28sb/FET_dibox.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/x25lq28sb/)

If i change the output caps to non-polarized, will this circuit applicable to phantom power? Or any further modification needed?

found this interesting article on cab sims, with clips....so putting it here... 8)

http://speaker-sims.franknitsch.com

heres my astro sim prototype...still on breadboard.. :)

i live next to a busy road so mic'ing up an amp is out of the question....its a pain in the ass ::)
so........

Quote from: deadastronaut on November 16, 2018, 11:13:43 AM
i live next to a busy road so mic'ing up an amp is out of the question....its a pain in the ass ::)
so........

Nice try! We know the vacuum of space is the real reason you can't mic an amp up there!  :icon_wink:

ha ha yeah that too....in space no one can hear you jam... ;D

So not some noisy old hyperspace bypass?  :D

Quote from: bluebunny on November 16, 2018, 04:06:04 PM
So not some noisy old hyperspace bypass?  :D

It is a hilarious coincidence that I am about to head out on vacation, and the one book I packed is The Ultimate Hitchhiker's Guide.  :icon_cool:

(And, yes, I believe I have a towel packed as well.)

Quote from: deadastronaut on November 16, 2018, 11:13:43 AM
heres my astro sim prototype...still on breadboard.. :)

i live next to a busy road so mic'ing up an amp is out of the question....its a pain in the ass ::)
so........

Rob,

Sounds Excelent! It's refreshing to hear and see somebody actually playing a demo instead of reamp DI tracks... I like reamping but, it can be a bit deceiving.

~Jim

Quote from: EBK on November 16, 2018, 05:24:09 PM

Quote from: bluebunny on November 16, 2018, 04:06:04 PM
So not some noisy old hyperspace bypass?  :D

It is a hilarious coincidence that I am about to head out on vacation, and the one book I packed is The Ultimate Hitchhiker's Guide.  :icon_cool:

(And, yes, I believe I have a towel packed as well.)

I'm on vacation right now, so I need to remember to give this a listen when I get home. I'm sure the phone doesn't do it justice.

Enjoy your vacation too, Eric. A towel is all you need. And a wifi connection.  :)

[/quote]


Sounds Excelent! It's refreshing to hear and see somebody actually playing a demo instead of reamp DI tracks... I like reamping but, it can be a bit deceiving.

~Jim
[/quote]

cheers jim, yeah its pretty good...works great for double tracking guitars direct....and bass too.

talking of deceiving, ive been tapping various ''cab sim circuits '' into the NI Multisim '' prog...

and then trying them in a real world situation on breadboard, and to be honest they all sounded really naff...its like the standard  'graph' for these 'cab sims' is way off of what you want to hear/expect....unless my ears are totally screwed...or people like that sound...hmmmm.....

anyway, i'll get my version built up and finally finished when i get my pcb's , i'm pretty happy with it. 8)

others may not be... i guess its subjective...as are ears... ::)

Hi Rob
Thanks
looking forward to seeing the astro sim pcb in your shop!
Regards
Luca

my latest, astro cab sim. finished up last night....  8)

xlr out, phones out, and out.... ;D

made a little boo boo, had to run a 100k from the bottom of the board to 2 points..no biggie. sorted.  8)


(https://i.postimg.cc/Whh64wwT/20190116-173848.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Whh64wwT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/F1FVM4ff/20190116-180634.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F1FVM4ff)

(https://i.postimg.cc/47PbY80N/20190116-180808.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47PbY80N)

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8xC0ZcF/20190116-180842.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8xC0ZcF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vDPtMN90/20190116-181029.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDPtMN90)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ygsyYqvb/20190116-181105.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygsyYqvb)

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8WCkPDs/20190116-181223.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8WCkPDs)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PPxKwjTG/20190116-181306.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PPxKwjTG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBwpbW9W/20190116-181353.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBwpbW9W)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YLjghtgb/20190116-181405.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLjghtgb)

Quote from: deadastronaut on January 17, 2019, 06:40:22 AM
my latest, astro cab sim. finished up last night....  8)

xlr out, phones out, and out.... ;D

made a little boo boo, had to run a 100k from the bottom of the board to 2 points..no biggie. sorted.  8)

Sweet! The demo is really nice. Count me in on one PCB at least :-)

will do.... 8)

Beautiful work my man, bravo

At the top of page three, in december 2014, I wrote:

Quote from: cab42 on December 30, 2014, 04:20:37 AM
For a while I have wanted to build a cab sim and the schematic in Jims post on the top of page 2 seems pretty simple and I think I have all the parts

I made this vero layout in the train on my way home from work yesterday.

Well, I finally built it some days ago (I still had the parts) as I use headphones more often. It makes a dramatic difference when using headphones. As it is my first cab sim I don't really have something to compare it with, but I like it!

I think it's the simplest circuit presented yet. Both my vero layout and the schematic has disappeared from the original posts so here they are again, freshly uploaded to the gallery:

(https://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=53730&g2_serialNumber=1)

(https://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=53734&g2_serialNumber=1)

Have fun

Edit: typos

For recording direct you will always need a harware analog speakersim - for monitoring. (I started rec. direct in 80's with a aria me30 - a solid-built rockman knockoff - and even built several frontend addons to get more sounds).

Today you will always use impulses in the final mix, but you need a latency-free monitoring sound - which is an analog ampsim territory.

Hi guys. Here is another interesting build from Victor Kampf (he is a FET tube emulating lover)
http://media.amt-sales.com/the-guitar-speaker-simulator-by-victor-kampf/ (http://media.amt-sales.com/the-guitar-speaker-simulator-by-victor-kampf/)

It looks like it is simplified version of from his previoius work described here (in russian +samples)
http://diyfactory.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40:2012-06-15-11-39-05&catid=8:2012-06-15-11-39-05&Itemid=15 (http://diyfactory.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40:2012-06-15-11-39-05&catid=8:2012-06-15-11-39-05&Itemid=15)

Quote from: Cactusjack on May 30, 2019, 11:16:30 AM
Hi guys. Here is another interesting build from Victor Kampf (he is a FET tube emulating lover)
http://media.amt-sales.com/the-guitar-speaker-simulator-by-victor-kampf/ (http://media.amt-sales.com/the-guitar-speaker-simulator-by-victor-kampf/)

It looks like it is simplified version of from his previoius work described here (in russian +samples)
http://diyfactory.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40:2012-06-15-11-39-05&catid=8:2012-06-15-11-39-05&Itemid=15 (http://diyfactory.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40:2012-06-15-11-39-05&catid=8:2012-06-15-11-39-05&Itemid=15)

The cab emulation circuit in the first link is basically the same cab emulation circuit that AMT uses in all of their pedals. The Legend Series 1 and 2, the SS11, SS20 and SS30 all have relatively the same circuit...


https://app.box.com/s/bt3g2ydna310cwlxerrqw2h4cpn4fihi

Cactusjack - I tested this circuit, along with many other cabsims. Results here (https://tinyurl.com/y8lcb3xc)

T.

Thanks guys. Yesterday I tried to simulate AMT (my 1st link) in micro-cap - it looks completely like on author graphics.  :icon_smile:
I will study all the info on your links.

UPD: In my simulation i used BFT46, another FETs such as J201, J210 caused problems. I think I also shold try simulate with 2SC208.

UPD_2: I listened to the sasmples and found that Lart's cabsim sounds pleasant to me   :)  Very interesting project with gyrator.

Just adding to this list with my own cab sim circuit: http://valvewizard.co.uk/cabsim.html

(http://valvewizard.co.uk/cabsimschem.jpg)

Quote from: merlinb on February 28, 2021, 04:32:00 AM
Just adding to this list with my own cab sim circuit: http://valvewizard.co.uk/cabsim.html

(http://valvewizard.co.uk/cabsimschem.jpg)

Awesome as always! I cannot find D4 and D5 in the schematic, though.

Cheers,
Andy

Quote from: Fancy Lime on February 28, 2021, 04:46:57 AM
Awesome as always! I cannot find D4 and D5 in the schematic, though.

Whoops, fixed!