Hello people.
I am aware that this thread might seem a copy of a copy of a copy of... The reason why I started this is simple: all the other threads about Rebote Delay 2.5 are old and 95% of links and resources contained in those threads are broken and no more available.
So... Let's use this thread to collect all the available mods for this killer pedal.
Here are some of the mods I've read about but didn't find any documentation about them:
Modulation: add chorus, vibrato, whatever
Infinite delay repeats switch: switch + resistor which bypass the Feedback pot and turns in a fixed resistor low enough to make the circuit to self-oscillate
Momentary switch mod
Delay tail lasting even when the pedal is switched off
Loop mod: add a Send and Return system to the pedal
There are even more of them, but these seem to be the most famous. It'd be super cool to collect schematics and documentations here for future reference. Unfortunately, Google Search was a bit imprecise about this.
First off, welcome to the forum :)
Second, the only one of these I ever tried (but thoroughly enjoyed) was the infinite delay repeats switch, which I affectionately call "THE INFINITY SWITCH." It's pretty much the simplest mod to do. You pull out the last 15k resistor and run a couple wires to a DPDT ON-ON switch. The wires go to the middle lugs, I put a 15k resistor on one side, and a 10k resistor on the other side, like so:
|----15K-----|
|W1 W2|
|----10K-----|
W1 and W2 being the wires from the board. It's a simple mod and isn't the kind of thing you keep on all the time, but it can be very cool coupled with a volume pedal and some reverb for ambient fade in type things.
I take the feedback resistor, sploit it into two series resistors, and run a cap from their junction to ground to introduce gradual progressive treble cut in the repeats (i.e., a little more on each repeat). You will not be able to get runaway feedback quite as easily, but the repeats will sound more natural, and won't accumulate audible quantization noise quite as much.
Quote from: Mark Hammer on July 05, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
I take the feedback resistor, sploit it into two series resistors, and run a cap from their junction to ground to introduce gradual progressive treble cut in the repeats (i.e., a little more on each repeat). You will not be able to get runaway feedback quite as easily, but the repeats will sound more natural, and won't accumulate audible quantization noise quite as much.
Mark Hammer, first of all tanks for all the help i'm been getting from your post over the years.
Could you tell me what size cap you use and do you split the resister equal (7.5k + 7.5k)
Cheers
You're going to lose some signal, via the treble bleed so you can afford to reduce the total resistance. So, an 8k2 and 3k9, in series (in that order), with a .022uf cap to ground, will give a 6db/oct rolloff starting around 880hz. That might seem low, but it is a gentle rolloff, and will leave enough treble content that you will be able to hear an additional reduction in treble with each successive repeat, without getting dull immediately.
Feel free to experiment, though.
A schematic in this thread would be super useful ...
(https://guitar-gear.ru/proekt/rebote_2_5/rebote25_sch.jpg)
Quote from: Mark Hammer on July 05, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
I take the feedback resistor, sploit it into two series resistors, and run a cap from their junction to ground to introduce gradual progressive treble cut in the repeats (i.e., a little more on each repeat). You will not be able to get runaway feedback quite as easily, but the repeats will sound more natural, and won't accumulate audible quantization noise quite as much.
There are already multiple,
multi-pole low-pass filters on the repeats in the circuit -- that's what the LPF pins (as labeled in the datasheet) are for. I can understand turning it into a three-pole filter like on most bucket brigade delays instead of the two-pole here, but the way your post was written makes it sound like the Rebote is missing the parts to make the repeats darker.
That version of the schematic above is a little weird compared to how it's usually drawn, but it makes it FAR more obvious what exactly is going on with the filter resistors. If you want to see something with an adjustable tone control for the repeats, I put one in my "Hamlet" delay (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P7uOYFRH6ZW5eGoquhAiMQMyUU76bod_gNKkiSlPNJM/edit). In that, only one of the LPF is affected. You can also put the pot in series with the cap before the ground connection, and it'll affect both feedback filters. More resistance = more filter.
Juansolo used to do something where he'd take one leg of the repeats pot and connect it to the filter cap, so when he turned up the delay time he got more filtering, but I can't find his schematic at the moment.
No. The Rebote has all the LPF needed to achieve maximum bandwidth at the intended delay with minimum noise. I'm adding juuuussssttt a bit more in the repeats only, to essentially "add a little bit of carpeting to the walls of the reverberant chamber".
I've been doing this since the early 80's, and I like it. A simple toggle can lift the cap and restore full bandwidth.
Thanks alot Mark Hammer, i'll do some experimenting but i'm sure it will work just fine as you described..
My pleasure. And note that it does not alter the first repeat (the one that passes through all of the filtering Jon/midway accurately describes). It only alters repeats after that, and at a corner frequency below what the existing filters roll off at.
One of the nice things about it is that, since it takes away a lot of the mids, it psychologically moves the additional repeats to the background, even when you have a lot of them and their level is turned up. I find that removes some of the audio clutter.
So this is pretty similar to the "infinite repeats" mod listed prior, but I had a customer that wanted a little more options, so instead of a DPDT switch I used a 4-way rotary switch and had the following resistors on the switch:
15k - stock Rebote 2.5, completely safe
10k - a lot of repeats, almost infinite but still safe
8.1k - infinite repeats, will oscillate in some cases
5.1k - will oscillate like crazy into trippy squealy deliciousness
You could also just add another pot (10k linear in series with a 5.1k resistor would give the same range as this mod) in place of this which would give you even more options for exactly how intense you want your repeats to get, but I really like the idea of having different "settings." Maybe someone will find this useful ;D
Note: I usually like my Rebotes in 1590Bs because I love that size and I never use batteries, but adding a rotary switch you would definitely want a 1590BB or bigger.
I have noticed on my (similar) delay, that if you do create infinite repeat feedback, the sound gets progressively thinner quite quickly. This seems to indicate to some degree (an extreme application) that despite the LP filtering, lows are lost more than highs. Does everyone experience this? I may try mark's mod.
It's a nifty idea, but I don't find "tails" all that useful. (And I have done some infinite repeat noises, only to find later that the thing was still putting out a tiny little noise. Duh.)I suppose there might be one moment in a recording where tails would be very cool, maybe once in each song. I think the effect is lost on the audience in live performance. But then, I make pedals for me and not them.
On my next delay, I plan to add a 2nd stomp switch to put a second pot on the delay time, or more likely - a fixed resistor selected for my favorite slapback doubling. This switch would give you "two delays in one". That would be my claim if I were a large commercial manufacturer anyway. I haven't seen this done before, which turns on my Stupid Idea Yellow Alert.
Quote from: blackieNYC on August 28, 2015, 07:41:57 AM
On my next delay, I plan to add a 2nd stomp switch to put a second pot on the delay time, or more likely - a fixed resistor selected for my favorite slapback doubling. This switch would give you "two delays in one". That would be my claim if I were a large commercial manufacturer anyway. I haven't seen this done before, which turns on my Stupid Idea Yellow Alert.
I have done this before and can assure you it is not a stupid idea, it actually saves you from needing two delays on your board to get different settings.
Very interesting mods, thanks for sharing!
I've done the Rebote 2.5 two times, always standard.
Can you please describe how you plan to add an extra switch and pot for the "2-settings" delay? it will be a 3dpt switch right?
Thanks in advance.
funny, i do the infinite repeats thing much simpler.
one momentary normally open switch. two pieces of wire. connect across the input and output of the repeats pot. done.
push the button, and it begins to feedback on itself. release the button and it fades back to whatever you have it set to.
i call it a warp control. works on pretty much anything delay.
Quote from: pinkjimiphoton on October 20, 2017, 08:19:26 PM
funny, i do the infinite repeats thing much simpler.
one momentary normally open switch. two pieces of wire. connect across the input and output of the repeats pot. done.
push the button, and it begins to feedback on itself. release the button and it fades back to whatever you have it set to.
i call it a warp control. works on pretty much anything delay.
Any chance you could draw a diagram of that set up and what value of pot/resistor etc you use?
Sounds intriguing. I'm such a noob though, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it.
take a momentary normally open stompswitch
solder two wires to it.
solder the other two wires across the wiper and input of the pot.
push switch. shorts pot to full blast. feedback madness ensues. release switch, feedback fades back to whatever the original setting is on the knob.
use whatever knob controls feedback/repeats/echoes or whatever is in your delay/echo
no resistors necessary. you use whatever pot is already in the unit. will work on any dig or analog delay pretty much other than tape, oil can or disc delays.
its just a way to change the pot from max to whatever you like.
if it works backwards, move the wire on the outer leg to the other side.
Momentary tails switching. buffered bypass.
I think this is what i have on a modded rebote.
(https://i.imgur.com/URA4Lxf.png)
Quote from: Mark Hammer on July 05, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
I take the feedback resistor, sploit it into two series resistors, and run a cap from their junction to ground to introduce gradual progressive treble cut in the repeats (i.e., a little more on each repeat). You will not be able to get runaway feedback quite as easily, but the repeats will sound more natural, and won't accumulate audible quantization noise quite as much.
Like so Mark?
(https://i.imgur.com/DeZ98LC.png)
Always on / tails mod
(https://i.imgur.com/gdTPthM.png)
Quote from: Kipper4 on November 15, 2017, 03:54:56 AM
Quote from: Mark Hammer on July 05, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
I take the feedback resistor, sploit it into two series resistors, and run a cap from their junction to ground to introduce gradual progressive treble cut in the repeats (i.e., a little more on each repeat). You will not be able to get runaway feedback quite as easily, but the repeats will sound more natural, and won't accumulate audible quantization noise quite as much.
Like so Mark?
(https://i.imgur.com/DeZ98LC.png)
Exactly.
Quote from: Kipper4 on November 24, 2017, 04:06:03 AM
Always on / tails mod
(https://i.imgur.com/gdTPthM.png)
So I got the Spdt NC NO momentary switches in the post today like so
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1vmkpLVXXXXaAXXXXq6xXFXXXw/10pcs-Red-Cap-Momentary-NO-NC-3-Pin-Panel-Mount-Push-button-Switch-AC-250V-2A.jpg
Imagine my surpise at how its wired internally with the 2x outer lugs always open until the push.
On push an outer lug and the central lug are connected.
Will I ever get my head around switching.
I was scratching my bonce for a while, but It seems I got it right It all works as expected. Phew.....
Just for reference a switch is deamed open when the lugs connect right
and deamed closed when they are not connected
Right?
I have a 50% chance of getting this wrong.
Prey tell did I win a sausage?
have some ice-cream instead. and no, not right. open means no connection, closed means yes connection. [draw the circuit.]
it's marked right there on the body, so's you can't boob-it-up. the switching arm is pivoted at one end, so that end is common. expect the same w/ dpdt mom switches as well.
a momentary switch needs to identify which is closed normally and rich is open normally. not so a latching, which is "normally" in whatever state it is in *now*.
Thanks Duck
"it's marked right there on the body, so's you can't boob-it-up."
wanna bet?
I didnt see it was marked on the body. I never looked just tested with the beeper and drew some conclusions on how best to wire it.
I should have know.
Think of a knife switch, like Dr Frankenstein's lab.
You may say: this is backward to a garden gate. No, because we are not wiring a garden, we are allowing the duck to walk along the top of the fence, or not.
It sure makes me feel good to hear you guys still into the Rebote 2.5 (after only 12 years!)
Mod: clipping diodes from the wiper of wet level pot to ground is one I like. Also a tone pot (like a guitar tone pot) helps.
Rebote 2.5 schematic:
http://tonepad.com/project.asp?id=51
Quote from: Fp-www.Tonepad.com on November 27, 2017, 02:49:09 PM
It sure makes me feel good to hear you guys still into the Rebote 2.5 (after only 12 years!)
Frankly it makes me feel good that Tonepad is still around! Thanks for all of your (continued) hard work! 8)
Hey, all bringing this back from the dead--has anyone ever done either a wet only mod or a set-dry mod (2 output jacks)? Wet only seems simple enough--an SPST at the 24k between the input and output opamp stages, or maybe a DPDT so that the mix pot can be bypassed, too. But separate wet and dry outputs -- that would be a bit more complicated, wouldn't it? Looking at a Boss DD-2, the dry-only jack is stereo, with the ring grounding the emitter of an NPN transistor that turns off an FET switch on the line feeding the "dry" (pre-emphasized) signal into the output mixer. The tip of the dry-only jack takes its signal from the transistor input buffer, not the preemphasis opamp.
.. wrong thread.. please delete :)
Hi guys, reviving this old thread cause I recently build this little guy and wanted to try some of the several mods! (Already added a 10k pot plus 5k1 in series, but I realized that with the pot at minimum (15k, measured), it already goes oscillating like crazy, think I´ll add more resistance there...
Quote from: Fp-www.Tonepad.com on November 27, 2017, 02:49:09 PM
It sure makes me feel good to hear you guys still into the Rebote 2.5 (after only 12 years!)
Mod: clipping diodes from the wiper of wet level pot to ground is one I like. Also a tone pot (like a guitar tone pot) helps.
Rebote 2.5 schematic:
http://tonepad.com/project.asp?id=51
Francisco, would you mind elaborating a little bit? Recomending a diode configuration? And where should the tone pot go?
Thaks for your work man!
You can nearly always calm feedback down by reducing the capacitor in the feedback path. I think you might have the 0.1uF after the 15k. Try changing that for 22nF. Reason is that bass content has the most energy and a smaller capacitor reduces just the bass.
Quote from: anotherjim on November 17, 2019, 04:39:24 PM
You can nearly always calm feedback down by reducing the capacitor in the feedback path. I think you might have the 0.1uF after the 15k. Try changing that for 22nF. Reason is that bass content has the most energy and a smaller capacitor reduces just the bass.
I think I did just the opposite and resolved it! Put a tone control with 500k and 22nf (LPF) in the repeats (Vol wiper) and it calms it down a lot. Changed the "15k" mod also, put a switch choosing between 22k and 8k2. Digging it! Need to sit down and study the tails mod which is, for me, almost essencial in a delay!
hi guys, just a heads up, i have a rebote 2.5 on the breadboard
just for fun and tinkering whilst i await pcbs for something else.. ::)
heres a rather nice and ultra simple mod for the pt2399 delays i just found on breadboard
put a 1M across pin 6 and 8 and you get 'chorus' on the delays....
it makes it just slightly 'wobble' but just enough to be very nice....nifty. try it. 8) 8) 8)
add it to a switch and voila' ...you have tape delay type chorusy stuff....quite lush actually
without the hassle and extra circuitry of adding an lfo...
nice and simple mod...just like me.. :icon_mrgreen:
try it guys, seriously, its worth it to liven up an otherwise plain old pt2399 delay. 8)
i tried 680k to 1M....1M seems best, YMMV. have fun. happy new year everyone. 8)
update : take a 1M from pin 6 to 8
and a 820K from pin 6 to 7.....uber lush . ;)
lovely for guitar swell spacey stuff... 8)
Would anybody be kind enough to show how to get two time pots mod with the Rebote 2.5 and how to wire the switch? I am trying to do it but I have a hard time figuring it out, and it's probably very simple...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ExjNYxtu5yo/T5_uWnaUssI/AAAAAAAABCA/eg3oT7mbATs/s1600/2VOAFS-LED.GIF)
Would this work with the time pot?
yes that should work....
will likely have a weird warp effect when switching times....which might add to it. 8)
personally i would choose to do this on a longer (2x pt2399) delay rather than the rebote single pt2399 though to be worth it. .....just my 2p.
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 29, 2023, 11:07:44 AM
yes that should work....
will likely have a weird warp effect when switching times....which might add to it. 8)
personally i would choose to do this on a longer (2x pt2399) delay rather than the rebote single pt2399 though to be worth it. .....just my 2p.
Thanks for the reply. I want to be able to switch from slap back delay to something around 400ms. It's just for live use. Easier to switch than to bend down while in a gig.
I am also going to try to do that on the Echo Base which I have just finished (had the PCB unfinished since 2016). Same thing, from slap back to about 400ms.
Thanks again :)
gotya, just be prepared for a little warp sound when switching timings.
have fun . 8)
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 29, 2023, 12:06:54 PM
gotya, just be prepared for a little warp sound when switching timings.
have fun . 8)
That's part of the fun 8)
Re, Rebote 2.5 circuit Pin 15
Ok, I have looked for where "delay in" at pin 15 goes. Searched, but no luck, it was brought up here before. Found one answer on the net, "you can ignore that "delay in".
Any comment on this mystery ?
(https://i.postimg.cc/vD8S4dz3/25.png) (https://postimg.cc/vD8S4dz3)
look up the datasheet for the PT2399, you will see that pins 16 and 15 form an opamp. pin 15 has an internal connection feeding the delay stack - kipper has his numbers wrong. see also the tonepad build docs.
It's kind-of useful to see the op-amps in the PT2399 separated out, but then you get this sort of problem where their outputs don't go anywhere. I wondered about this when I drew my own PT2399 symbol, but in the end I just detailed some of the internals inside a big rectangle and left it at that. Example: https://electricdruid.net/two-stomplfo-projects-ptwobble/ (https://electricdruid.net/two-stomplfo-projects-ptwobble/)