Hey there. So I'm building a fuzzy bee clone and , of course, it aint working. When I plug it in, the LED sometimes lights for a quick second, but most of the time nothing and no sound. I realized this was probably a power problem so I got out the multimeter and checked my battery. It was fine. Then I started checking all the components on the circuit board. There is one single capacitor that shows no signs of life when I touch it with the multimeter. All the others like it show power flow on the meter. Does this mean the part is bad and i should replace it?
Hi--
Please review the "What To Do When It Doesn't Work" article, and post pics and voltage readings here.
^WhAt he said.
There is a debugging article posted as a sticky on the top of the forum with a guide that helps outline steps for data collecting that help others identify what could be wrong.
It's hard to saw what your problem is, but it could be an intermittent cracked wire, solder bridge, something touching something else. Hard to say! What do you mean by power flow?
Hey there. So I'm building a fuzzy bee clone and , of course, it aint working. When I plug it in, the LED sometimes lights for a quick second, but most of the time nothing and no sound. I realized this was probably a power problem so I got out the multimeter and checked my battery. It was fine. Then I started checking all the components on the circuit board. There is one single capacitor that shows no signs of life when I touch it with the multimeter. All the others like it show power flow on the meter. Does this mean the part is bad and i should replace it?
Hey there. So I'm building a fuzzy bee clone and , of course, it aint working. When I plug it in, the LED sometimes lights for a quick second, but most of the time nothing and no sound. I realized this was probably a power problem so I got out the multimeter and checked my battery. It was fine. Then I started checking all the components on the circuit board. There is one single capacitor that shows no signs of life when I touch it with the multimeter. All the others like it show power flow on the meter. Does this mean the part is bad and i should replace it? If not, what is wrong with my pedal?
Here is my checklist:
1.What does it do, not do, and sound like? mentioned above.
2.Name of the circuit = Fuzzy Bee V2 (pumped up edition)
3.Source of the circuit (URL of schematic or project) = http://www.guitarpcb.com/PDF%20Files/Fuzzy%20Bee_v2.pdf
4.Any modifications to the circuit? No.
5.Any parts substitutions? Nope.
6.Positive ground to negative ground conversion? Nope. I don't think so....?
7.Turn your meter on, set it to the 10V or 20V scale. Remove the battery from the battery clip. Probe the battery terminals with the meter leads before putting it in the clip. What is the out of circuit battery voltage? = 9v roughly.
Now insert the battery into the clip. If your effect is wired so that a plug must be in the input or output jack to turn the battery power on, insert one end of a cord into that jack. Connect the negative/black meter lead to signal ground by clipping the negative/black lead to the outer sleeve of the input or output jack, whichever does not have a plug in it. With the negative lead on signal ground, measure the following:
Voltage at the circuit board end of the red battery lead = .8
Voltage at the circuit board end of the black battery lead =0.0
ON board voltages as follows:
Q1
Balance, Sustain Timbre all measure at o.o
D3:
0.0
0.8
-0.4
ICI: 0.8
D1: 0
D2: 0
C1:
C2: 0.0
C4: 0.0
C5: ... it's all roughly zero. sometimes a .1 that fluctuates to zero.
QuoteVoltage at the circuit board end of the red battery lead = .8
this is very wrong. it should be the same as the battery voltage. either the clip/lead is bad/open circuit, or you have a short somewhere between supply and ground. switch off, disconnect the battery, and do continuity checks from the battery clip to board (via any jack switching, of course), and from board (+) to board ground. and post your results.
Duck just beat me to that!
The out of circuit battery voltage being right isn't proof that you have a good battery - it is a necessary first step before measuring the in-circuit voltage. The very low in-circuit voltage shows either a failed battery or a short circuit somewhere.
You only know you have a good battery if it shows correct voltage while delivering power to something.
Do check that diode D2 is the right way around as per schematic - battery reading 0.8V is suspiciously close to a diode voltage drop. D2 wrong will discharge every battery you attach. It is used deliberately "backward" to short out the power supply IF, and only if, the power supply is connected the wrong way around. Normally, D2 should never conduct.
Redid my troubleshooting readings. I think I was doing it wrong?
This time I connected my negative multimeter prod to what i think is the ground prong of the input jack. Is that what I'm supposed to do? Youtube isn't helping much. When I do that, these are my readings.
Here is my checklist:
The battery I'm using reads at 9.68... voltage when tested with multimeter probes.
1.What does it do, not do, and sound like? mentioned above.
2.Name of the circuit = Fuzzy Bee V2 (pumped up edition)
3.Source of the circuit (URL of schematic or project) = http://www.guitarpcb.com/PDF%20Files/Fuzzy%20Bee_v2.pdf
4.Any modifications to the circuit? No.
5.Any parts substitutions? Nope.
6.Positive ground to negative ground conversion? Nope. I don't think so....?
7.Turn your meter on, set it to the 10V or 20V scale. Remove the battery from the battery clip. Probe the battery terminals with the meter leads before putting it in the clip. What is the out of circuit battery voltage?- without a battery plugged in, the battery clip terminals reads 0.00 ====
8. Now insert the battery into the clip. If your effect is wired so that a plug must be in the input or output jack to turn the battery power on, insert one end of a cord into that jack. Connect the negative/black meter lead to signal ground by clipping the negative/black lead to the outer sleeve of the input or output jack, whichever does not have a plug in it. With the negative lead on signal ground, measure the following:
Voltage at the circuit board end of the red battery lead = .9.8
Voltage at the circuit board end of the black battery lead =8.8
ON board voltages as follows:
Q1
Balance, Sustain Timbre all measure at 9.2
D1: 9. sometimes 8.73
D2: 9.8
D3:8.19
ICI: 9.7
C1: 9.2
C2: 8.82
C4: 8.72
C5: 8.6
C6: 8.7
C7: 9.8
C8: 9.0
C9: 9.3
Q1: 9.5
Q2: 9.4
Q3: 8.4
Do I need to do the resistors? All of my wiring solder joints look so good, I would be surprised if i needed to resolder one...
Quote from: anotherjim on August 09, 2015, 12:12:52 PM
Duck just beat me to that!
The out of circuit battery voltage being right isn't proof that you have a good battery - it is a necessary first step before measuring the in-circuit voltage. The very low in-circuit voltage shows either a failed battery or a short circuit somewhere.
You only know you have a good battery if it shows correct voltage while delivering power to something.
Do check that diode D2 is the right way around as per schematic - battery reading 0.8V is suspiciously close to a diode voltage drop. D2 wrong will discharge every battery you attach. It is used deliberately "backward" to short out the power supply IF, and only if, the power supply is connected the wrong way around. Normally, D2 should never conduct.
Im starting to think I don't understand where my ground clip should be with my multimeter. When i had it clasped to the metal of the enclosure... all my readings were near 0. When I clasp it to what i think is the ground prong of the input jack, all my readings are around 9v. I've watched lots of instructional videos and still am not sure I'm doing this right. Can you help me?
Ideally, you should have continuity between a bunch of points that should be connected to ground. If you multimeter has a continuity measurement thing (will give a beep when there is a connection), use it to make sure you have a connection between the two sleeve tabs of the jacks, the enclosure, ground on the circuit, and ground at the power jack. If you don't have the continuity tester, set it on the lowest resistance - there should be very little ohms if they are all connected.
If your enclosure is painted, and you got paint in the holes of the jacks, you could have some problems getting them to make the connection. If you are using insulated jacks, they will not ground the enclosure. When I do measurements, I stick my ground probe into the screw hole on the enclosure. Simple enough
the way to measure: put your black probe to ground/0V/earth/battery negative. this is your reference point. any part of the circuit/chassis that connects to ground will do, if you know the connection is good. (see mth50's answer.) then poke your red probe to what you want to measure. it should be a positve (+) reading, because you only have the battery as supply.
I think all reading of 8V5~9V8 indicates that a supply connection is not being made, and yr meter is floating. this is re-inforced by your other set of all 0 readings.
do those continuity checks without the battery, get back to us with results. also photos of your build, if you can.
Quote from: duck_arse on August 12, 2015, 11:05:51 AM
the way to measure: put your black probe to ground/0V/earth/battery negative. this is your reference point. any part of the circuit/chassis that connects to ground will do, if you know the connection is good. (see mth50's answer.) then poke your red probe to what you want to measure. it should be a positve (+) reading, because you only have the battery as supply.
I think all reading of 8V5~9V8 indicates that a supply connection is not being made, and yr meter is floating. this is re-inforced by your other set of all 0 readings.
do those continuity checks without the battery, get back to us with results. also photos of your build, if you can.
My multimeter doesn't have the continuity setting. At least, not that I can see.
Also when you say "any point that connects to ground" can you give an example of an exact part i can touch that connects to ground? Just so I know that I'm not misconstruing what you're telling me.
Should I get a better multimeter?
Quote from: bifbangpow on August 12, 2015, 12:09:29 PM
My multimeter doesn't have the continuity setting. At least, not that I can see.
It might not be called that. Do you have the instruction leaflet? If not, reply with a pic of the range selector.
Quote from: bifbangpow on August 12, 2015, 12:09:29 PM
My multimeter doesn't have the continuity setting. At least, not that I can see.
It looks like a dot with some radiation emitting usually:
(http://lizarum.com/assignments/physical_computing/images/multimeter/conticon3.jpg)
Also you can always use resistance mode, which is more cumbersome, but will work
"any point that connects to ground" - look on your circuit diagram, and anything connected to the little three-stripe triangle symbol is commoned with/to ground, so they all should read 0R between, and 0V difference.
also, my apologies, I now see that is a charge pumped and inverted setup, so except for around the top of the IC being positive voltages, all the readings in the audio section will be negative, with respect to ground (where your black probe will still be).
Here is the multimeter i have. I will try to get you those readings, but i dont have that radiation sign, let me try a similar setting.
(https://www.google.com/search?q=cen+tech+digital+multimeter&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAkQ_AUoA2oVChMIpvet1rimxwIV1yyICh14IgEp&biw=1821&bih=857&dpr=0.75#imgrc=975wREio_BsySM%3A)
ok. So using the lowest resistance setting on my multimeter, i placed my two meter prods on the sleeve lugs of the input jack and the output jack at the same time. That gave me a reading that quickly descended from 30 down to roughly 1.1.
Then I tested both ends of each wire from joint to joint, and all of the wires seem to get a similar reading.
what other points should i test? Working on uploading some photos.
I should mention that after doing some basic resoldering just in case, the pedal now received power just fine, but still no sound. The LED lights up, but nothing not even clean signal comes through sound-wise.
Now what should I do?
Maybe my chip fried?
I'm pretty sure it was the IC Chip. Thank you everyone for being of so much help! I can't really move forward until i get a new chip to replace the old one. So ... to be continued....
on your lowest resistance setting, short the black probe to the red probe. what does the meter indicate? THAT number is what you should regard as "good" for when you expect to measure zero-ohms, like from in sleeve to out sleeve, or in sleeve to board ground.
your next test would be from input-jack tip to output-jack tip. then work the bypass switch. wired correct, it should go from "good" zero-ohms to 'a' number, possibly over-range, at least very high, and maybe counting.
next, if all that works out, test from input-jack tip to circuit board input connection (at the board), and work the bypass. then do the same for the board output and output socket tip. what results?
and then, do you get "-9V" or similar at the output of the charge pump IC when there is +9V at its input pin?
[edit :] and get us those photos! of the offboard parts as well!
Quote from: duck_arse on August 14, 2015, 12:08:47 PM
on your lowest resistance setting, short the black probe to the red probe. what does the meter indicate? THAT number is what you should regard as "good" for when you expect to measure zero-ohms, like from in sleeve to out sleeve, or in sleeve to board ground.
your next test would be from input-jack tip to output-jack tip. then work the bypass switch. wired correct, it should go from "good" zero-ohms to 'a' number, possibly over-range, at least very high, and maybe counting.
next, if all that works out, test from input-jack tip to circuit board input connection (at the board), and work the bypass. then do the same for the board output and output socket tip. what results?
and then, do you get "-9V" or similar at the output of the charge pump IC when there is +9V at its input pin?
[edit :] and get us those photos! of the offboard parts as well!
ok. So i replaced the chip, and it still doesnt work so we continue. Id like to follow your instructions but I still have questions.
1. Should the 9v battery be plugged in when i do this?
2. When i place the black and red probes together on my meter, the number fluctuates rapidly between many random numbers from 90. to 3.3 So i'm not sure, but that doesn't seem right. I'm on my lowest resistance setting of 200 in the resistance/ohm part of my multimeter.
3. when you say "work the bypass switch" do you mean the footswitch? and by "work" do you mean put the black probe to any ground and touch any or all of the lugs individually with the red probe? If not, please be specific.
I realize it's probably frustrating having to explain all this to me. I taught myself to build all alone in my house just me and the internet, so all though I've built around 10 pedals at this point, there is still so much I don't understand. Specially jargon.
here are some photos of my build. I have replaced the IC chip and made sure its in correctly since taking these.
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1041503625890023&set=pcb.1041503679223351&type=1&theater"></a>
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1041503622556690&set=pcb.1041503679223351&type=1&theater"></a>
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1041503629223356&set=pcb.1041503679223351&type=1&theater"></a>
The pics are a big help. I am pretty sure that the input jack is mis-wired, which would prevent the circuit from being powered correctly. Please go to this article:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/beginnerboost/ (http://www.diystompboxes.com/beginnerboost/) and look at Figure 29
That pic identifies tip, ring and sleeve of a Switchcraft #12B or similar jack. Now look at the off-board wiring drawing at guitarpcb:
http://www.guitarpcb.com/PDF%20Files/Fuzzy%20Bee_v2.pdf
Make sure that you are clear about which contacts of the jack are T R and S and where they go, and I think you will see that you need to re-wire. I dunno if that's the only issue, but see if it cures the problem.
I second the bear's answer. the yellow wire on the yellow/blue socket looks to be wired to the switch. if you use a single colour wire for all your ground connections, different to your hot/signal/tips wire colours, it will help avoid confusion. I can't tell which wire is connected to ground at in and out on your board.
when I say the bypass, yes, I mean the bypass switch/footswitch/stomp switch. and when I say work the switch, I mean toggle/flip/push/changeover/work it, so it changes state (off to on, vice versie).
for measuring the resistances about the place, unplug the plugpak/wallwart/external supply. unplug the battery, won't hurt either. when you short the probes together on any ohms range, it should read steady "0.00" or very low. but rock steady.
your board looks ok otherwise, the externals is where most errors get made.
Quote from: duck_arse on August 19, 2015, 10:52:41 AM
I second the bear's answer. the yellow wire on the yellow/blue socket looks to be wired to the switch. if you use a single colour wire for all your ground connections, different to your hot/signal/tips wire colours, it will help avoid confusion. I can't tell which wire is connected to ground at in and out on your board.
when I say the bypass, yes, I mean the bypass switch/footswitch/stomp switch. and when I say work the switch, I mean toggle/flip/push/changeover/work it, so it changes state (off to on, vice versie).
for measuring the resistances about the place, unplug the plugpak/wallwart/external supply. unplug the battery, won't hurt either. when you short the probes together on any ohms range, it should read steady "0.00" or very low. but rock steady.
your board looks ok otherwise, the externals is where most errors get made.
with the battery unplugged, shorting the two meter probes together definitely does not give me 0.0 on my meter reading. it gives me a lfuctuating crazy read. could my meter be broken?
ok so it works!!!
I miswired the input jack by switching the tip & the ring lugs. and I did the same with the output jacks. The confusion was that in the guitarpcb.com diagram the tip is the left prong and the ring is the right prong, but on my input jack it's opposite. I didn't know that was possible. Now I understand that tips/rings/sleeves are not determined by their lateral position but rather by the rung on the pot they are connected to. LEARNING.
But now there is a NEW PROBLEM. All the pots are backwards, in the sense that the level gets higher when turned counter clockwise instead of clockwise. But I couldn't have wired them wrong because they are on-board components. was I supposed to put the actual pots in on the opposite side of the board than everything else? It seems like then i would have to do that for the led as well... and... i dont know. Now i'm very confused.
Quote from: bifbangpow on August 19, 2015, 03:03:24 PM
ok so it works!!!
CONGRATULATIONS! Now you've learned a basic: You can do 99% right, but the 1% that's not right is fatal. That's how it is with this stuff. See additional comments below.
Quote from: bifbangpow on August 19, 2015, 03:03:24 PM
was I supposed to put the actual pots in on the opposite side of the board than everything else?
In this case, Yes. The build doc isn't quite specific enough, IMO. Take a look at the schematic. The side of the sustain pot that is connected to the + side of cap C2 is the Clockwise (CW) side. If a regular pot is wired to the top side, the CW contact is wired by hand to C2. For the right connection to happen with a board-mounted pot, the pot has to be on the bottom side. Unsolder the Sustain pot (you will want solder wick for this)
http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/de-soldering-braid/
and re-mount on the bottom. Same for the other pots. BTW your soldering looks pretty good, which is Very important.
Suggestion: Getting more comfortable with troubleshooting means learning a bit about how and why things work the way they do so that you have a better idea of where to look for problems. Please give a read to my Beginner Project tutorials on this site and consider learning to breadboard. Then build at least one pedal on perfboard and go through the process of learning to wire by hand. Lest I be misunderstood, I am not in any way putting down guitarpcb, GGG, Tonepad and other sites that offer ready-to-solder (RTS) PCBs; a number of these are my customers. The stuff I discuss in the tutorials is In Addition To, and not in place of, the information that the RTS board sites provide. Ideally, I think every beginner should go the breadboard/hand-build route first to build skills and confidence and then do kits. But starting higher on the learning curve is also fine, as you are finding out. Happy Construction!
Regards
SD
nice work on the getting to work. if this is your meter:
(http://www.smcelectronics.com/PICTURES/DVM1-L.JPG)
and you have the black lead plugged to the bottom (COM) jack, the red lead plugged to the middle (VohmmA) socket, and the 200 ohm (I can't find the omegas on my keyboard) switch setting, shorting the leads should read 0. if it doesn't, pull the red lead out, and poke the black probe into the VmA jack. that should read 0. [if anybody knows, how do those sockets work? are the contacts completely shrouded when no plug inserted?]
do the same with the red lead plugged in, remove the black. if either test shows other than 0, you have a bad lead. if both read bad, it's something else, or two bad leads.
Quote from: smallbearelec on August 19, 2015, 04:41:47 PM
....BTW your soldering looks pretty good, which is Very important.
Suggestion: Getting more comfortable with troubleshooting means learning a bit about how and why things work the way they do so that you have a better idea of where to look for problems. Please give a read to my Beginner Project tutorials on this site and consider learning to breadboard. Then build at least one pedal on perfboard and go through the process of learning to wire by hand. Lest I be misunderstood, I am not in any way putting down guitarpcb, GGG, Tonepad and other sites that offer ready-to-solder (RTS) PCBs; a number of these are my customers. The stuff I discuss in the tutorials is In Addition To, and not in place of, the information that the RTS board sites provide. Ideally, I think every beginner should go the breadboard/hand-build route first to build skills and confidence and then do kits. But starting higher on the learning curve is also fine, as you are finding out. Happy Construction!
Regards
SD
Yeah I only use kits sometimes. I actually have etched my own pcbs all ready. I etched my own maestro sr 1 fuzz pedal a couple times, and a fox tone as well. But you're right, I jumped right into the deep end without knowing some of the basics. I've done a lot of reading on the subject, but not having a real person to ask questions to means sometimes I misunderstand something. Going back to a breadboard seems a little to simple to me, but if you still think I should go back and try a breadboard... i guess i could do that. Do you think I need that?
Quote from: duck_arse on August 20, 2015, 11:03:09 AM
nice work on the getting to work. if this is your meter:
(http://www.smcelectronics.com/PICTURES/DVM1-L.JPG)
and you have the black lead plugged to the bottom (COM) jack, the red lead plugged to the middle (VohmmA) socket, and the 200 ohm (I can't find the omegas on my keyboard) switch setting, shorting the leads should read 0. if it doesn't, pull the red lead out, and poke the black probe into the VmA jack. that should read 0. [if anybody knows, how do those sockets work? are the contacts completely shrouded when no plug inserted?]
do the same with the red lead plugged in, remove the black. if either test shows other than 0, you have a bad lead. if both read bad, it's something else, or two bad leads.
Yeah, i definitely do not get zero. When putting the black lead into the Vma I get fluctuating numbers. Same when i do the opposite with the red lead.
I guess I should get new leads?
Quote from: bifbangpow on August 21, 2015, 01:21:52 PM
Going back to a breadboard seems a little to simple to me, but if you still think I should go back and try a breadboard... i guess i could do that. Do you think I need that?
Maybe not at the very basic level in the beginner tutorial. But the ability to read a schematic and translate the wiring in a drawing to connections of physical components is an essential basic for serious work. Maybe you want to breadboard something a little more complex, like a Big Muff.
Curiosity: Does your multimeter have a scale with a diode symbol (like the one just above ON in the photo)? That's the continuity function. It should give a continuous BEEP when the leads are shorted. I ask, because learning to use your meter and interpreting what it's telling you are also part of the basics.
biffbang - can you set yr meter to "DCV 20" range, and measure the voltage of a battery, any battery. then turn the battery around, and test again. do you get a reading that settles quickly to a sensible number? and do you get a negative reading in the same manner? do you just get wandering nonsense?