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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: Gus on June 11, 2016, 01:36:49 PM

Title: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Gus on June 11, 2016, 01:36:49 PM
Med power transistor fuzz goodness
VDCM is what was measured in circuit with the TIP29 build other voltages are from the sim using 2N3055s.
Betas measured with a LCR transistor diode etc. meter
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=52596&g2_serialNumber=1)
Built it sounds very good no gating
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Kipper4 on June 11, 2016, 01:53:43 PM
I bet that has some headroom.
Why not take the output from the collector of Q2 IE below R2 ?
What sort of hfe does that jelly bean have please?
Possible tone shaping with C1?
Sorry for the daft question.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Gus on June 11, 2016, 04:44:18 PM
Betas are in the screen shot 123,143 measured with one of the atmega based meters
The 2K and 330 are the output voltage divider if you take it off the Q2 collector it will be too high in level
It is interesting what happens when you change the value of the Q2 emitter cap.  100uf seems to give more IM distortion
The med power devices have a larger die area and can have more capacitance
Drilled a box and waiting for the paint to dry
This one might be fun with a bass
The web based 4.5VDC at Q2 needs to be corrected. The correct voltage is what you design for sometimes you want 4.5VDC other times you don't.

Next step might be a gain stage before this like a MK2
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Kipper4 on June 11, 2016, 06:20:37 PM
Thanks Gus I'm not used to reading sims so I didn't guess that was the hfe hopefully n future I'll remember.
Thanks for explaining.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: mac on June 11, 2016, 08:14:07 PM
I like three things about power transistors,
They have high internal capacitance and low hfe like some germs,
And gain fall faster with low base current than general purpose transistors, ie, 2n2222, mpsa42, etc.
That means a better clen up woth the guitar volume.

mac
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: duck_arse on June 12, 2016, 11:17:37 AM
hey gus, how come Q1, with grounded emitter, is only 250mV at the base?
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Gus on June 12, 2016, 11:54:54 AM
250mV is from the sim. After I put it together(the paint should be dry today) I will measure the real base to ground voltage.
Real voltages with two TP29 are the ones with VDCM at the end
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Cozybuilder on June 13, 2016, 06:31:06 PM
I'm impressed Gus- breadboarded, mine has very good tone, sustains forever, cleans up well with the guitar vol. A couple of component subs:
Q1= 2N3055, Q2= TIP31c
Q2C: 560R + 1K8
Vol: A100K
All other component values as per screen shot

       E           B         C
Q1   0V       0.51V   1.75V
Q2  1.19V    1.75V   6.37V
Source: 9.09V
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Gus on June 13, 2016, 06:48:40 PM
Mac's post is short and to the point explaining the goodness of the power transistor
Cozybuilder thanks for the feedback

Something a little different. Power mosfets are fun.
(http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/mosfet.gif)
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: deadastronaut on June 13, 2016, 07:26:38 PM
funny i just pulled apart an old sound to light project

reclaimed 2x tip31's from it... cheers Gus.  8)
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: mac on June 16, 2016, 05:50:39 PM
Try bd237, hfe: 70-150, high internal capacitance.

About 1,00 @ Mouser Spain.

mac
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Cozybuilder on June 24, 2016, 01:10:23 PM
One knob, two transistors? Shoot, this sounded like it should fit in a 1590LB. It does.

2N3055 Q1, TIP31c Q2, BS170 Millennium Bypass, Wima 1uF poly out, short Panasonic 100uF 16V electros; trimmed jacks & transistors, ⅝" standoffs with 2-56 screws; and a bit of head scratching to make it all fit. (& yes, it was worth it)

Cheers and thanks to Gus for another interesting, great sounding design

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3270_zpsndg88pqv.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3269_zpsendu5dk0.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3277_zps69qnhxys.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3276_zpshlkwnvfi.jpg)
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3281_zpsajvfbyy1.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3280_zpsux3jghwm.jpg)
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: deadastronaut on June 24, 2016, 03:45:03 PM
excellent build russ...... 8)
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Gus on June 24, 2016, 05:02:50 PM
I like how the 2N3055 was trimmed to fit

I like the name.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: bluebunny on June 24, 2016, 05:08:56 PM
 :icon_eek:

Just  :icon_eek:  ...
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: rutabaga bob on June 24, 2016, 07:24:16 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: duck_arse on June 25, 2016, 11:03:43 AM
I see it ..... but I don't believe it, except he's done it again. therapy, russ?
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Cozybuilder on June 25, 2016, 11:30:19 AM
Ahhh, but this IS therapy  8)   :icon_razz:

I can't believe no one gave their version of the acronym B.A.P.T.  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: duck_arse on June 25, 2016, 11:47:12 AM
does it have to do with arse size and power transistors?
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Cozybuilder on June 25, 2016, 12:46:34 PM
does it have to do with arse size and power transistors?

It does

(http://flocchinisausage.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/sausage-fork-700x350.jpg)
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: bluebunny on June 26, 2016, 09:59:50 AM
(http://flocchinisausage.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/sausage-fork-700x350.jpg)

I thought the "B" stood for "Bratwurst"...   :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: PRR on June 27, 2016, 07:57:04 PM
Coming late to dinner...

> how come Q1, with grounded emitter, is only 250mV at the base?

2N3055 is a nominal 15A part. 15,000mA!

Here it is run at 8V/22K= 0.3mA.

40,000 times smaller than it "could" do.

Junction drop changes 20mV for 2:1 change of current, 60mV for 10:1 change.

60mV+60mV+60mV+60mV+20mV+20mV= um um um 280mV.

Taking "600mV" as the nominal junction drop at "intended" current, this super-tiny current should cause Vbe=320mV.

Which is in sight of 250mV. But not quite there.

More complication: 2N3055's Vbe at 15A is over a Volt, not 600mV. But much of this excess is stray resistance which drops-out at very low current.

Fiddling in SPICE with Duncan's 2N3055 model, I do not get Vbe as low as 250mV. More like 450mV. Taking the no-parasitic Vbe of '3055 at 15A (which is really socking it to the Silicon) as ~~730mV, this does come out right for 0.3mA.

Another way to "drop Vbe" is to take the collector WAY high, near breakdown, so C-B leakage dominates the junction. But for '3055 that would be way over 60V, and he's only got 9.5V.

TIP29 should not be majorly different.

Do not know why Gus' sim shows 250mV. Can't really care.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: duck_arse on June 28, 2016, 10:51:40 AM
as ever, thanks paul.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Gus on July 09, 2016, 12:33:16 PM
Finally finished putting the circuit in an enclosure

Measured voltages
Q1 base .54VDC
Q1 collector 1.5VDC
Q2 collector 7.28VDC
Supply voltage 9.66VDC
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Cozybuilder on July 09, 2016, 12:50:33 PM
Photo?
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Gus on July 18, 2016, 11:37:58 AM
(http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=52632&g2_serialNumber=1)
recent builds clockwise from top left
silicon supa like
PN2222 one control fuzz 1.6VDC 7VDC

TIP29 one control fuzz

4 control fuzz with input cap selector switch
over the top BMP
another one control fuzz
another one control fuzz
The one controls have different biasing and other adjustments. I have a few more built that need to be boxed.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Gus on August 29, 2018, 10:55:21 AM
A bump because I have not seem much about power transistor overdrive or fuzz circuits
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: tubegeek on January 25, 2020, 11:44:57 AM
I just got in some TIP31 and TIP32 for my mini amplifier project, I might well try this thing at some point. So just a little re-bump to say Thanks Gus for all the interesting design work!
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Mark Hammer on January 25, 2020, 02:13:06 PM
One knob, two transistors? Shoot, this sounded like it should fit in a 1590LB. It does.

2N3055 Q1, TIP31c Q2, BS170 Millennium Bypass, Wima 1uF poly out, short Panasonic 100uF 16V electros; trimmed jacks & transistors, ⅝" standoffs with 2-56 screws; and a bit of head scratching to make it all fit. (& yes, it was worth it)

Cheers and thanks to Gus for another interesting, great sounding design

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3270_zpsndg88pqv.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3269_zpsendu5dk0.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3277_zps69qnhxys.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3276_zpshlkwnvfi.jpg)
(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3281_zpsajvfbyy1.jpg) (http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/russrutledge/Tip29%20Gus/DSCN3280_zpsux3jghwm.jpg)
I was going to make a snarky comment and ask "But can it fit in a 1590A?".  However, clearly it can, with a bit of planning and wise jack/switch choice.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Rob Strand on January 25, 2020, 04:11:23 PM
Cozy builder did some great builds.   He always raised the bar on what could be done.    It's all hand-wired stuff, not two-sided boards and SMD parts.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: tubegeek on January 25, 2020, 04:45:57 PM
Stuff like this blows my mind. I have trouble fitting some builds on my workbench.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: amptramp on January 26, 2020, 06:51:20 PM
This is good - the low bias voltage of germanium without the leakage current.

2N3055 has now become a catch-all number for power transistors that do not quite meet the specifications of later power transistors so if, say, Hfe was too low, it might get packaged as a 2N3055 rather than whatever it was supposed to be.  Manufacturers sometimes do their own counterfeiting.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Rob Strand on January 26, 2020, 07:09:04 PM
Quote
2N3055 has now become a catch-all number for power transistors that do not quite meet the specifications of later power transistors so if, say, Hfe was too low, it might get packaged as a 2N3055 rather than whatever it was supposed to be.  Manufacturers sometimes do their own counterfeiting.

Some years back there were fake 2N3055's effectively 2N3904 rating transistors inside.  They test out OK but when you
put any sort of load on them they fry.
 
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: edvard on January 26, 2020, 10:35:00 PM
Well bust my buttons, I've thought of this kind of thing many times but never took the plunge.  Nice!
I'd like to see a build with 1/2 watt resistors and bumblebee caps around two big ol' TO-3 transistors, woop!!  :icon_eek:
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: tubegeek on January 27, 2020, 04:13:17 PM
OK, so digging through the Miscellaneous Old Semiconductors stash I got a few years back, I find a bunch of useful items. Just pulling out the TO-220's as a starting point

NPN's:
TIP3055's with hfe's of 229, 179, 193, 108, 73
MJE3055; 19
EP2437; 16, 13
MJE5984; 37

And a fair few PNP'S as well.

Starting with the 108 and 179 TIP3055's for now.

Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: Rob Strand on January 30, 2020, 08:57:03 PM
The large devices have a *lot* more capacitance which smooth out the sound of silicons.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: tubegeek on January 30, 2020, 09:28:00 PM
The large devices have a *lot* more capacitance which smooth out the sound of silicons.
Is there much to be gained in that regard by going from TO-220 to the big TO-3 package types? (I don't happen to have any TO-3 on hand at the moment.)
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: highwater on January 30, 2020, 09:36:05 PM
If they're the same part number in a bigger package, not likely. The capacitance could even be slightly *less* simply because the leads (and bonding wires inside) are farther apart from each-other.
Title: Re: TIP29 fuzz
Post by: mac on February 01, 2020, 11:02:50 AM
Try those inside low consumption lights, hfe: 20. Good for darlingtons.

mac