So i am away from home and decided to play with diy layout creator, I have a schematic and the layout i created. I cant test it for couple days until i get home.
Can anyone take a look and see if it looks correct?
its only a few components so its not really organized for compactness or neatness,
(https://s30.postimg.org/dzi0wm2y5/EQD_Bellow_schem.png) (https://postimg.org/image/dzi0wm2y5/)
(https://s30.postimg.org/yj3ovmetp/bellows.png) (https://postimg.org/image/yj3ovmetp/)
(https://s24.postimg.org/c71dzohvl/eqd_bellows_updated.png) (https://postimg.org/image/c71dzohvl/)
think this is right , not first one
You've got the gain wired as a variable resistor, when you want it wired as a potentiometer, according to the schematic. If you look at the input on the schematic you'll see three numbers near the pot symbol, referring to the three terminals. The input is connected to terminal 3, C1 is connected to terminal 2, R1 is connected to terminal 1. Right now, you have the pot wired as a variable resistor in series with R1.
I'm looking for some PF5102 with no results.
Any equivalent advise? 2N5457?
from Mouser (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/PF5102/?qs=ljbEvF4DwOMOsr1eGUsxrg%3D%3D)
Product Category: JFET
Manufacturer: Fairchild Semiconductor
RoHS: RoHS Compliant Details
Mounting Style: Through Hole
Package / Case: TO-92
Transistor Polarity: N-Channel
Configuration: Single
Vgs - Gate-Source Breakdown Voltage: - 40 V
Drain-Source Current at Vgs=0: 5 mA to 15 mA
Pd - Power Dissipation: 625 mW
Series: PF5102
Packaging: Bulk
Brand: Fairchild Semiconductor
Forward Transconductance - Min: 0.0035 S
Gate-Source Cutoff Voltage: - 1.6 V
Operating Temperature Range: - 55 C to + 150 C
Factory Pack Quantity: 10000
Unit Weight: 0.007090 oz
j201 is what is being used in circuit, they are top choices for replacaements of each other from my readin if i remember, kinda like pn2907a is same as 2n2907a or close enought, i think thats a correct comparison.
I corrected the variable gain pot directly underneath the first pic. I ge thrown off by fet pin outs its like hey are 312 instead of 123 or 321. Assuming the fet is a J201 does this look accurate? thanks for any replies
http://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2017/01/earthquaker-devices-bellows.html#comment-form
heres where i got my info from.
Great info!
I share here this article that I readed time ago when I was looking for J201's replacement:
http://stompville.co.uk/?p=763
Me too, Fndr8875: the best layout website if you ask me.
I'll try with 2N5457 and see how it goes.
BTW: is true that the 2n5457 is discontinued? :-\
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=101568.0
well this post was from 2013 saying they are/were...there are still GE trannys around that were discontiuned idk 50 years ago, there extremely expensive compared to newer components, but 20 bucks is really nothing say if fuzz factory is your go to main pedal. But its rediculously expensive if you just wanna tinker around and enjoy the whole building process. for me $1 components im all anal with if im breadboarding or whatever, haha, sounds dumb but things can start adding up fast on certain builds. Well let me know if it works, i really hope it does , i wanna start doing more breadboarding to help me understand things better and tweak things, im jst impatient and its really tedious on large circuits
Yes, you're right!
I'm waiting the circuit board (on acid). Its a small one, so maybe in a few hours I can tell.
I'll solder the 2N5457's on the board... no socket: just the hardcore way (¿) ;D
I haven't any 5817 diode: 1n4007 would work too?
It's what effectslayout recomends.
> kinda like pn2907a is same as 2n2907a or close enough
"2N2907A" is a JEDEC-registered part specification, and shows a metal case.
The same chip in a plastic case is some better and gobs cheaper. Some suppliers call these "PN2907A" to make it clear you will get plastic (if you care). Others just sell plastic '2907 as 2N parts.
Metal case was better than the earliest plastics. Modern plastic is better than metal in almost all ways. Metal may still be preferred in some military or space applications, or where you must heat-sink a '2907 and do not wish to discard the existing for-metal sink and buy the 7-cent sink for a plastic device. In Stomp World you just do not care, except Metal is prettier and that makes you play better.
Ok.... I'm back with good news ;D
Used 2N5457 as I said, and man... this thing is damn loud!
Love it!
Gain and volume are quite interactive.
I used Log pots instead of Lin one's; that was what I had on hand...I'll change them asap.
BTW; I used 1N4007 instead the 5817 that recomend's effectslayout.
its just for reverse polarity protection so u cant burn effect up if you used a positive ground power, adapter think the 4007 is 1000v and 4001 is 50v so youll have more volume w 1n4007, ive never measured it w multi meter to see how much voltage drop there is between those two diodes, the 5817 seems to be the main one used, so im sure its got even less voltage drop and better protection for circuit but havent googled why. but circuit will work with out diode and other 100uf which is for power filtering ie less noise n all that good stuff. so did u breadboard it before u etched it, i built one on vero while back and it was pretty freaking loud but sounded good, i didnt box it up and not sure what happened to little thing. I use a solid state amp and when i heard the guy who started EQD and designed this effect, i watched some demos and was like hell yea, perfect amount of grit and handful of components. Cant wait to get back home and get another one of these going, congrats on your build! love to see some pics if you wanna post them.
im not sure where i came up with that PRR about the 2907, think i had one to many that night lol, think i was thinking fet used was pf201 , but its 102. if my drunken logic was somehow correct then the mpf102 would be the choice, but as i said think i just thought i knew what i was talking about lol. i do know the pn2907 sounds better than 2n2907a in the Soda Meiser, but obviously looks way less metal haha
Quote from: PRR on January 30, 2017, 05:09:28 PM
. . . except Metal is prettier and that makes you play better.
I wish it were that simple, Paul. <sigh> :icon_neutral:
Thanks Fndr8875!
Sure! I asked to the master of effectslayouts blog about the diodes, and he recomended 4007 instead of 1N60 (I though it was the perfect replacement).
Isn't noisy at all, even when it's outside any metal chassis.
I love that its f*cking loud ..! The gain character depends a lot on the volume level, very interactive in any position, even though I used log pots.
It'll get better when I replace them with Lineal ones.
(http://i.imgur.com/XoKkfuBl.jpg)
Sorry the poor quality pic
I'll post a short video later :)
Quotethe 4007 is 1000v and 4001 is 50v so youll have more volume w 1n4007
Not trying to poke fun at you, but just so you know, you're way off. The reverse polarity protection diodes you find in stompboxes are there for only one reason - to protect the rest of the circuit downstream from the power supply, in the event that you touch the wrong battery leads to the clip (easy to do) or wire the DC jack incorrectly (easy to do) or events of that nature. Some components can fry if the polarity is reversed, the protection diode prevents that from happening and has
NO IMPACT ON VOLUME IN ANY WAY. Since you're obviously excited about building guitar effects, do yourself a big favor and read up on electricity and electronics basics. There is a ton of great info in books and online. A decent enough and free place to start is here:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/ (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/)
lol, i understand why a diiode is there for RP protection as i said so it would protect the circuit against getting fried, in terms of subbing the 1n60 diodes for 1n4007s they will most def be a change in volume as thats the clipping portion of circuit , i dont pretend to be any expert or claim to even understand alot of the factors of why things work as i stated about the 1n5817 diodes use over the 1n4xx for RP protection and why the 5817 seems to be the most pop choice in the pcbs ive bought from madbeans and rullywow. anyhow i do appreciate any contrustive feedback , i started this thread just trying to see if the simple breadboard layout i created looked correct, not to argue about datasheets or nitpick
ive been messing w the bellows and the speaker cranker, the bellows doesnt even have clipping diodes, was thinking of the speaker cranker
I builded the Speaker Cranker a few weeks ago.
The best Electra dist version, IMHO.
I used 1N4148 instead 1N60: I'll try soon with some MPSA13 instead 2N3904.
"More" knob, it's worth repeating that is 'more' a od control than volume.
You can add master volume at the end if you want, but kills the magic.
You definitely want the MPSA13 in this effect. It has a huge, huge effect on how smoothly the transistor operates.
If you didn't already know: You have to squint to see it, but this is a variation on the bazz fuss, though there is some extra sauce going on with the JFET, so reading up on that circuit will give you some insights.
You're right midwayfair
I was thinking in try some MPSA18 there
Quote from: Plexi on February 01, 2017, 09:45:40 AM
You're right midwayfair
I was thinking in try some MPSA18 there
MPSA18 is just a normal NPN BJT transistor. It's higher gain than the 2N3904, but it's still the same type of transistor and it won't make much of a difference. I'm not discouraging you from trying it but I wouldn't spend my money on one if it wasn't already on hand.
The MPSA13 on the other hand is a darlington transistor, and it legitimately sounds and behaves differently in this type of circuit.
Quote from: midwayfair on February 01, 2017, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: Plexi on February 01, 2017, 09:45:40 AM
You're right midwayfair
I was thinking in try some MPSA18 there
MPSA18 is just a normal NPN BJT transistor. It's higher gain than the 2N3904, but it's still the same type of transistor and it won't make much of a difference. I'm not discouraging you from trying it but I wouldn't spend my money on one if it wasn't already on hand.
The MPSA13 on the other hand is a darlington transistor, and it legitimately sounds and behaves differently in this type of circuit.
Thanks for the advise.
What you know about the KSP13?
Same coffee in different cup?
QuoteWhat you know about the KSP13?
Same coffee in different cup?
comparing the two datasheets, it looks like the original Motorola MPSA part has been copied by Fairchild, and renumbered as KSP, with the datasheet slightly simplified and updated.
Nice little demo! This thread has wooed me into building one...there is a nice-looking little 7x16 version at effectslayouts.blogspot. If you add a couple of rows to the depth, you can use board-mounted pots.
Quote from: rutabaga bob on February 02, 2017, 10:14:48 AM
Nice little demo! This thread has wooed me into building one...there is a nice-looking little 7x16 version at effectslayouts.blogspot. If you add a couple of rows to the depth, you can use board-mounted pots.
That's the one I used! ;D
As you can see, both pots are board mounted: but the Gain pot is upside down because the big 22nf cap didn't left space to the short pins pot.
I'll solve that when box the pedal: maybe put that cap in the solder side of the board.
...wondered why that looked a little odd! ;D
Nice work Plexi!
Ive been wanting to do a 1590a build, so im waiting on some 9mm pots, and low profile electos. Also some decent resistors. im so @#$%ing sick of these cheap ones that are literally thinner than a strand of my hair, ive got thick hair.
Also thanks to Rullywow Diptrace Library i finally getting the hang of Diptrace. So im working on layouts for the Speaker Cranker and the Bellows. Also thanks to Paul, the diyguitar pedals guy for his diptrace tutorials onlline. Things are starting to click as far as understanding schematics and stuff. Got a yihua solder station, with a hakko tip, it works so so, i mean compared to what ive used before it works great but im gonna go ahead with weller whatever 51, want an analogue on, the hakkos look cool but the digital interface i crap IMO i dont wanna press 10-15 buttons to change temp. As some lady on youtube said like 5 years ago Aint no body got time for that!
Im trying to be patient and get all that together before i start building again, i thew a bunch of stuff out bc work area was just a total @#$%ing mess, various piles of resistors and capacitors and whatever everywhere. So gonna start over, parts come in and get put in label organizer immediately, and no more vero or perf, forcing myself to work things out on breadboard, then if its something worth building ill either order pcb or do one in diptrace. New year new habits.
definitly worth boxing up plexi your build sounds great, as for a box to mountin , pots in that are on diff sides of board pointing in different directions, well gonna be interesting looking lol...jk, im sure you could just unsolder and use little hookup wire on one of pots. Ive only dont one build with onboard pots, thing i dont like about them is drilling enlosure and making everything fit w no stress on anything. But w only 2 pots id be fine doing it. idk how many pedals youve built or if you have a drill press or what. I dont just a black and decker 18 volt , I always use a drill template, got the harbor freight auto punch and step bits, and i use painters tape to mark whrere to stop, but wo a drill press seems like holes are always a bit uneven, plus i dont have anything to clamp box down, so i guess those will go on the list , if im gonna do wanna be happy w how it turns out. more the most part up until recently if it worked that was all i cared about, but i kinda drives me crazy now ow this knob is off a litle this or that way or how messy guts are. Wonder if a speaker cranker and a bellows in a 1590bb would work well, a boost and fuzz w 2 footswitches inst anything i havent seen a bunch of before. i guess ill get the breadboar back out this week and see how they interact together.
Quote from: Plexi on February 01, 2017, 08:00:55 AM
I builded the Speaker Cranker a few weeks ago.
The best Electra dist version, IMHO.
I used 1N4148 instead 1N60: I'll try soon with some MPSA13 instead 2N3904.
"More" knob, it's worth repeating that is 'more' a od control than volume.
You can add master volume at the end if you want, but kills the magic.
When you can't tell for sure if the pedal sounds good but the playing makes your face melt.
(http://quotesblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/AmazedBottleGlassesBigEyes.gif)
hey midway, yea as most ppls first builds seem to be bzz fuss, to me when i hear mpsa13 i hear bazz fuss. plus i dont see them used to often, but when i do i try to buld it .itbought even falling out of sockets, so if i ue one i just solder one leg to the socket. now smallbears were diff story with the gold plating, idk what taydas are made out of . but i figure stok up on trannys and breadboard until you have one that sounds is acceptable to you then use some heatsinks to protet from heat when soldering. my builds have come out for sturday and beeter
I was stuck on Walrus audio mayflower, they use 2 in heres and couldnt tell if they were buffers or what, but not gonna mes with that, jut gonna build a many EQDs as possible, thats what kck im on rigt now.
rutabaga bob
yes.. at the first sight are a total mess... maybe the anxiety of test asap :icon_rolleyes: ;D
But when I box, I try to put all as clean as possible.
(http://i.imgur.com/4ZzrO6tl.jpg)
Fndr8875
Sure! At least, I always try to have one pot mounted on, to hold the board (if not, I have to wrap it in tape to prevent false contacts).
I use the old method: measuring meticulously, drill with a 3mm wick, and then use a step drill (4 to 12mm)
stonerbox
Thanks! ::)
Quote from: Fndr8875 on February 03, 2017, 07:11:04 AM
hey midway, yea as most ppls first builds seem to be bzz fuss, to me when i hear mpsa13 i hear bazz fuss. plus i dont see them used to often, but when i do i try to buld it .itbought even falling out of sockets, so if i ue one i just solder one leg to the socket. now smallbears were diff story with the gold plating, idk what taydas are made out of . but i figure stok up on trannys and breadboard until you have one that sounds is acceptable to you then use some heatsinks to protet from heat when soldering. my builds have come out for sturday and beeter
I was stuck on Walrus audio mayflower, they use 2 in heres and couldnt tell if they were buffers or what, but not gonna mes with that, jut gonna build a many EQDs as possible, thats what kck im on rigt now.
Try this one!:
http://effectslayouts.blogspot.com.ar/2016/10/walrus-audio-mayflower.html
It avoid the buffer
ive literally got that one etched and drilled, guess i didnt look close enough at it to see it didnt have the buffers. You seem familliar enough with ELB that you know you can download the whole transfer library, so, i dont have a laser printer, i used adobe acrobat, and use the edit function to copy and paste the layouts i want to build or think i want to build , at the time it was just hey lets get one of every cool pedal i ever heard of printed. when you put 2 of each effect on the pdf you can fit A LOT per page, so id do that, then go to office depot and print on thinest gloss darkest resoluton, ive got a bag that some 8x10 copper clad came in filled to the brim w transfers, i also got a laminator, and jus went crazy etching, needles to say the 20 dollar laminator broke in like a week. but i was using double sided radioshack copper. didnt get hte change to try single sided, ABCFAB on ebay hasreally nice stuff got 3 8x10" 1 ounce copper for 9 bucks shipped. I bet if i used that it woul hold up. Buy yea my fav out of the transparent/tubescreamer/timmy whatevers is the Wampler Euphoria or Ecstasy, they changed the name but still the same pedal. Walrus does have some damn fine hardware an graphics designers though. back to the mpsa13 even though its not in that layout, i think it would be a waste to use them for a buffer. they only cost pennies, but id rather save them for something special like the bellows where it is essential for the circuit. they make an mpsa14 where the gain is something like 10000 hfe, the 13 is 5000 range. My guess is its the mpsa18 doesnt have enought gain for something like bellows or bazz fuss and the 13 totally saturates it, not sure how the fet effects it, and have been very curious as to how designers select pot values and sizes on something like this. Prob sound stop talking because the things i know take up like 3 words, and the rest is my guess, id say educated guess bc i was unable to breadboard from a schematic 2 weeks ago, then one day it was just like ok i see, and ics made sense so sorry if im bugging yall, but its an awesome feeling to start grasping something you spen 2 years trying to "get". Hoping better equipmwnr will give me those shiny solder joints and pedals working first time. ok cool, thanks everyone for post (even thought no one actually looked at my breaboard layout, which was point of thread :'( haha jk splat it together tommorow. I would like to do somemore, as they are scare and it frustrated me a lot at first when i realized you got a few left over from beavis, and the french guys site and thats about all..
I do the same with the transfers: put about 8 in one page, and then print in office depot ;D
I don't know about the MPSA18.
Remember that they are different specimens: 13 is a Darlington (two transistors in formation), and 18 is a common transistor, very similar to 2N5088.
oh im familiar w the diff, started with several bazz fuss bulids, then about 10 devi ever builds, bc hey all u need is 10k resistors 100nf caps 2.2m, 3.3m, mpsa18s, and couple 2n2907 resistors and some 100kpots, she did have some more complex circuits but my fave were soda meiser and hyperion. Hyperion was on of my first builds, its pretty sic,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk6qdFInfUU
i think that sounds pretty awesome considering it was recorded with a honeytone mini amp, a 100$ guitar, and jus an iphone external mic