Hi Guys,
Tried putting together a Klon pedal clone as way to dip my toe into diy pedals.
It turns on however when both active or in bypass there's a high pitch noise from an unknown origin.
Did some research and found it could be the the 7660 chip, bought a batch of Max 1044 chips as replacements as they are supposed to be better and have swapped it out three times and still have the same problem.
Tried with the pedal box open, closed, from a plug and also from a battery incase outside noise could be part of the issue.
One of the germanium diodes (1N34A) had a chip in it although I didn't expect this to be the problem as the noise persists when in bypass or active I have also bought a batch of these and replaced both of the diodes. I have removed any excess solder and seems pretty clean but I am inexperienced and don't know what to try next!
Youtube video demonstrating the issue here:
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
You should definitely check your wiring. Recheck and check again. Assuming the pedal is true bypass - you shouldn't have any noise from the effect when in bypass.
This being your first pedal - send a photo of your layout so we can verify the orientation of the parts.
It could also be a separate issue not relevant to the pedal.
Quote from: Kevin Mitchell on January 17, 2019, 04:30:47 PM
Assuming the pedal is true bypass -
The original Klons and many klone kits are not true bypass. U1A is always in the signal path. That hopefully narrows the problem down.
Blink, where did you get your ICs, both the TL072s and the MAX1044s?
The demo shows the noise.. but, does it work otherwise? i.e. pass signal?
MC
Where did you get the board? Can you take pictures, please? (Top and bottom.) Are pins 1 and 8 of the 1044/7660 connected?
Kevin Mitchell
Q. You should definitely check your wiring. Recheck and check again
A. I've checked a few times but who knows, could be like "where's Wally" i'll check again for problems.
Q. This being your first pedal - send a photo of your layout so we can verify the orientation of the parts
A. Attached pictures of the front of board, back of board and the diagram for reference.
thermionix
Q. Blink, where did you get your ICs, both the TL072s and the MAX1044s
A. Parts originally from an ebay kit, replacement MAX1044 chips from an ebay seller as well. Links below.
Klon DIY Kit
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIY-Overdrive-Guitar-Pedal-All-Kits-For-Kon-Centaur-Overdrive-Effect-Pedal/113250808878?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D8cbbf884095b4e3f801a419c0eb31154%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D112967945748%26itm%3D113250808878&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ab4321bcb-1b05-11e9-9f9a-74dbd18098b7%7Cparentrq%3A60594f281680aa486437228cffede57a%7Ciid%3A1 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIY-Overdrive-Guitar-Pedal-All-Kits-For-Kon-Centaur-Overdrive-Effect-Pedal/113250808878?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D8cbbf884095b4e3f801a419c0eb31154%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D112967945748%26itm%3D113250808878&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ab4321bcb-1b05-11e9-9f9a-74dbd18098b7%7Cparentrq%3A60594f281680aa486437228cffede57a%7Ciid%3A1)
MAX1044
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5PCS-MAX1044-IC-Voltage-Converter-DIP-8-MAX1044EPA/182253607141?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D7c5a04ba3356463faac5e43e2601eec3%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D113250808878%26itm%3D182253607141&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Af4da3c5e-1b05-11e9-aa35-74dbd180dcb7%7Cparentrq%3A605af70a1680abd98fc635daffeb7e58%7Ciid%3A1 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5PCS-MAX1044-IC-Voltage-Converter-DIP-8-MAX1044EPA/182253607141?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D7c5a04ba3356463faac5e43e2601eec3%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D113250808878%26itm%3D182253607141&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Af4da3c5e-1b05-11e9-aa35-74dbd180dcb7%7Cparentrq%3A605af70a1680abd98fc635daffeb7e58%7Ciid%3A1)
italianguy63
Q. The demo shows the noise.. but, does it work otherwise? i.e. pass signal?
A. Yes I get guitar sound when in bypass or when active. When active the tone sounds good and the gain, treble and volume all work. Just has the high pitch tone over it.
bluebunny
Q. Where did you get the board?
A. Ebay seller, links further up this reply in the answers to thermionix.
Q. Can you take pictures, please? (Top and bottom.)
A. Pictures attached to this reply
Q. Are pins 1 and 8 of the 1044/7660 connected?
A. They look like some of the cleaner solder jobs on the board
(https://i.postimg.cc/3ks7G2nW/IMG-0507.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3ks7G2nW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HVjCP6NV/IMG-6536.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HVjCP6NV)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wtY8Mgjm/IMG-6207.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtY8Mgjm)
One of those 1uF electros should be a tantulum.... maybe somebody here can identify which one. But, I don't think that would cause this.
I am also unsure if this is charge-pump whine... doesn't sound right.. But, I have been wrong in the past (plenty)!
Use up those Max1044's and switch to TC1044S or ICL7660S in the future. Better chips/same price. .02.
I verified the cap orientations... OK
Otherwise?????
MC
I think I see a couple of stray solder blobs, and that is a lot of extra flux residue. Perhaps clean that up with some alcohol. You may have a short somewhere but can't see it in that goo.
It sounds like a 10kHz squeal from 1044. You shall check with multimeter if pins 1 and 8 are shorted. If they are not, they should be.
If it still squeals, try to buy LT1054 and use it instead. It works at 25kHz internally. Those LTC1044 you bought from e-bay could be counterfeits.
There are three 1u caps in the lower row, 2nd and 3rd shall be tantalum, but that is not so important. I have few of similar circuits with normal electrolytic and they're fine. But datasheet suggest 10u for those caps, not 1u.
Quote from: blink3388 on January 18, 2019, 05:12:59 AM
Q. Are pins 1 and 8 of the 1044/7660 connected?
A. They look like some of the cleaner solder jobs on the board
I meant
to each other. :) It's what Ranko just asked you to check (although the folded picture and the eBay listing seem to indicate they are).
There were suggestions to replace the 1044 from italianguy63 to TC1044S or ICL7660S and a suggestion from rankot to try LT1054. I've just picked one of the suggestions at random and bought some LT1054 from ebay but happy to buy all three to try if anyone thinks it's worth it?
I did a continuity test between pin 1 and 8 from the soldered side and the chip side and I get continuity.
I've tried touching up the solder on all the pins on the board which hasn't helped.
I'm picking up some isopropyl alcohol from a friend tomorrow morning to clean up the board.
Now I've found that if I poke pin 7 with my finger or hold a piece of solder and poke it the sound stops, so I guess i'm grounding pin 7 when I do this? Looking at the chips schematic I can see that pin 7 is OSC and has this to say about it:
QuoteOscillator Control Input. Connecting an external capacitor reduces the oscillator frequency. Minimize stray capacitance at this pin.
Don't really know what this means but it sounds like it's supposed to reduce a frequency (maybe the one i'm hearing?) but it doesn't seem to go anywhere from what I can see.
Pin 7 is Osc pin, it is used for external oscillation control capacitor. When you touch it, you ground it and oscillations stop. Probably this IC is fake (rebranded 7660A which doesn't use pin1) or malfunction.
Ok thanks Rankot, i'll try the LT1054 when it arrives and i'll update the forum post!
Rankot.. I don't use the LT1054.. is it OK with pin 1 and 8 shorted? i.e. same pinout?
MC
Quote from: italianguy63 on January 18, 2019, 02:28:01 PM
Rankot.. I don't use the LT1054.. is it OK with pin 1 and 8 shorted? i.e. same pinout?
Looks like it mostly is apart from pin 1 has a different name so don't know if it's a different function. I'll grab some of the chips you suggested as well just incase.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mzrJdhP9/Screenshot-2019-01-18-at-20-02-25.png) (https://postimg.cc/mzrJdhP9)
LT1054's pin 1 can be safely connected to V+.
Hold up... You have to view the spec sheets to get the whole picture.
Many c-pumps get a frequency boost from connecting pin 1 to 8.
I think that is internal for the LT1054. Trying to verify for you as I am unfamiliar with it.
Save your money for a bit... :)
MC
Rankot is smarter than me! :)
There you go.. all good.
i have built this kit from this vendor and can confirm the kit is good, works properly when correctly assembled.
people don't realize it, but often FLUX is conductive enough to cause parasitic oscillations like this.
it DOES sound like charge pump whine.. and there's a lot of bogus CP's out there now, i've found i dunno how many of them all whine the same, despite different silkscreening. counterfeit shit sucks.
i would check the soldering ON THE POTS THEMSELVES, as a tiny bridge of solder or even flux between pins on the gain pot in particular <remember, a klon is a treble booster> can also cause oscillations.
temporarily connect the cases of all three pots with a jumper and connect that to ground to see if the issue goes away. high gain circuits can oscillate if the pot casings aren't grounded.
clean up the soldering. you did fairly well for a beginner, so kudos!!
you need denatured alcohol to clean the flux up with, i dunno if isopropyl will work well enough.
also check to make sure there are no bridges between caps... that can cause this to squeal too.
i doubt the type of caps will matter at all. i've built these with chicklets, polys and ceramics, and to my ear <and most of my customers> the ceramics sound the best.. cheap, consistent, and tiny with wayyyyyy better specs than old school ceramics had < i really like the little monolythics>
good luck !
I use 91% isopropyl (the more expensive kind, readily available in stores though) to clean flux. Works fine.
yeah, that should do it bro, the stuff most people think of i dunno, but 91%?
oh yeah 8)
I think the problem is cold solder joints, although the charge pump could also be a fake, Ebay <--> China. Are you using lead-free solder? That stuff is a bit of a pain to work with, and often good solder joints look cold.
Hi Guys,
So managed to do a little more on this now. So re-heated all the solder points and added more solder if any needed it and this made no difference. I've cleaned all the flux off and although I don't get this same specific sound anymore I do get a new background sound but it is no longer there when in bypass mode which the previous sound was. Below if a video of what's now happening.
Sounds like Star Trek. Have you tried with a battery?
Hello, has your problem ever been solved?
If yes, how was it solved?
Greetings from another Klon clone builder with the same problem.
Hi All,
i have the same issue, there is continuity between 1 and 8 and they are also connected to +9V, however..... i read someone suggesting grounding pin 1
the chassis is connected to -9V so if by grounding you mean connect it to the chassis, i am basically cutting the power from the pedal
..and after trying, yes I does get rid of the noise, but also all other signal too
Quote from: Balint on April 12, 2021, 05:19:41 PM
Hi All,
i have the same issue, there is continuity between 1 and 8 and they are also connected to +9V, however..... i read someone suggesting grounding pin 1
the chassis is connected to -9V so if by grounding you mean connect it to the chassis, i am basically cutting the power from the pedal
..and after trying, yes I does get rid of the noise, but also all other signal too
Could you please be more specific, which IC does your clone use for charge pump? 7660 or something else?
yes it is using a 7660, i read someone suggesting to use MAX1044 so i ordered some, it will take some time to arrive
unfortunately the kit doesn't come with a schematic, but i dont think its too much different to the original circuit (https://www.electrosmash.com/images/tech/klon-centaur/Klon-Centaur-Schematic-Parts.png)
another interesting anomaly is that sometimes it works perfectly - usually after i don't use it for a while - could it be that one of the electrolytics start to oscillate after a while and it takes a few hours disconnected to discharge (unlikely to be honest)
but then randomly it starts whining and no guitar signal gets through the pedal - the whine continues even after i switch off the pedal
im am armed with a multimeter, and an oscilloscope - so just let me know what to measure :)
Well, the simplest thing you can do is follow the signal from the input to the output with you oscilloscope. You will notice when it will start to whine, so it can give you a clue where the problem could be.
7660 should have pin 1 connected to V+ in order to boost it's working frequency, and you shall use 7660S, not 7660A, because later doesn't use boost pin.
Quote from: rankot on April 13, 2021, 12:19:48 PM
Well, the simplest thing you can do is follow the signal from the input to the output with you oscilloscope.
i have identified that the first TL072 (first section) is introducing a 0.4V 570 Hz signal - although my calculations might be wrong - check the picture
i can see the cycle on the picture on pin 1 of the first TL072, however I dont see it on pin 3 -> therefore I assume that is causing the whine
i have tried swapping out the two TL072s, but no change, same cycle/shape/voltage....
(https://i.postimg.cc/QHsb94Mz/172235156-741659379882074-2187999827887066695-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QHsb94Mz)
If it is not present all the time, it can be related to cold solder joints. Inspect your solder work carefully.
its a bit embarrassing but I think its just proper to share my "fix"
the problem was lack of power
when i tried the pedal with a power supply (which i had to rewire from + core to a - core, thats why i didnt try it right away) it worked perfectly
after that I measured my battery (which i bought brand new a few days ago - thats why i didnt even suspectit) it was at 2-3 V..... (unplugged) lol...
its interesting that a voltage-starved circuit hisses and motorboats. or is it normal? anyway thanks all for the suggestions
I stumbled on this forum after having the EXACT same problem, so thank you all for saving me a lot of time! I built the Klon Clone from the PedalPCB board, but used approximate component values for some resistors and caps I didn’t have. I was originally going to go component by component and replace it with the exact value to see if that fixed the whine, but thankfully found this. it was producing the exact same high pitch whine as in the original poster’s Youtube video, and I tried swapping out with my other TL1044s from the same order, but it produced the same noise. Pins 1 and 8 were connected, and I had an adequate power supply. I connected the TL1044 pin 7 to ground and that eliminated the noise, seemingly with no effect to the actual sound of the pedal, which sounds great. I bought the IC in a pack of 5 from Amazon, brand “Microchip” by seller VoyageSupply. Here’s a pic of the “fix”
(https://i.postimg.cc/CzJkn2W5/A7257955-3642-4351-A105-6-A4-D077401-E8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzJkn2W5)
glad ya got it sorted... yeah, an underpowered supply will do it.
you should see what happens with an undervoltaged 2399 delay ;)