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DIY Stompboxes => Digital & DSP => Topic started by: potul on March 27, 2020, 04:45:51 AM

Title: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: potul on March 27, 2020, 04:45:51 AM
Hi All

I just realized FXCore  page (http://www.experimentalnoize.com/product_FXCore.php) has been updated in the past months with some documentation and this sign:

(http://www.experimentalnoize.com/images/Manufacturer_FXCore_Audio_Effects_DSP.png)

Has anyone gone throught the docs and specs? Any insights?

Do we know when this is be released? (Frank, can you give some hint?)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on March 27, 2020, 06:36:07 AM
Yeah I have all the docs downloaded and waiting for the dev board to be released.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on March 27, 2020, 11:35:40 AM
Do we know when this is be released? (Frank, can you give some hint?)

Engineering run (small production run) is going so really just a waiting game for it to complete.

Final dev board design done and currently being verified, have one on desk next to me.

Getting quotes for assembly of dev board.

In circuit programming board (basically a USB to I2C board that works with assembler) done and working. So you can have a 3-pin header on your project board to program the FXCore in circuit.

Working on docs detailing how to talk to the chip so you can write your own program loader if you want, additional app notes, etc.

We are going as fast as we can, some things just take time and we cannot rush them, others are affected by the various "shelter in place" laws so we are having to work around them.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: vigilante397 on March 27, 2020, 12:50:15 PM
Well geeze, now I'm excited about something I didn't even know existed 60 seconds ago :P
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: micromegas on March 27, 2020, 02:46:08 PM
Nice! This is definitely interesting!
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: MetalGuy on March 27, 2020, 05:24:24 PM
As an end user I'm interested how many effects in a row it can do?
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on March 27, 2020, 06:35:30 PM
As an end user I'm interested how many effects in a row it can do?

That depends on how complex each is and how much memory each uses. As an example at 48KHz sample rate the rotary speaker+reverb program uses about 33% of available computational power but all the memory so you would be limited to filtering type things at that point but you would need to triple duty the pots (they are already doing double duty for the rotary and reverb controls) to get controls for the filters.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Sweetalk on April 04, 2020, 09:28:21 AM
What's the max delay time?
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on April 04, 2020, 12:44:50 PM
32K samples so 1 sec at 32KHz sample rate, 2 sec are 16KHz sample rate, etc.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: ElectricDruid on April 04, 2020, 09:26:38 PM
Does this new chip go beyond what the FV-1 can do? How?

You've got me all curious now!

T.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: patrick398 on April 05, 2020, 05:10:29 AM
Would it be possible to do granular synthesis with a chip like this? I've been trying to get my head around DSP stuff recently but it's like a dog trying to do calculus
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on April 05, 2020, 07:37:59 AM
Does this new chip go beyond what the FV-1 can do? How?

You've got me all curious now!

T.

Some datasheets and example code over at Experimental noise if your interested.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on April 05, 2020, 07:38:24 AM
Deleted - double post
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on June 06, 2020, 05:53:11 PM
Limited number of dev boards now available
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on June 07, 2020, 08:20:43 AM
Hi Frank, Great news. What is the position on getting a Dev board for UK developers?
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on June 07, 2020, 12:12:28 PM
Hi Frank, Great news. What is the position on getting a Dev board for UK developers?

Check with Profusion, they were shipped this past week so they may have received them by now.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: vigilante397 on June 07, 2020, 12:24:39 PM
I just emailed the sales@xnoize asking this, but what will the cost be for a dev board shipped in the US?  Interested in picking one up ;D
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on June 07, 2020, 12:38:51 PM
I just emailed the sales@xnoize asking this, but what will the cost be for a dev board shipped in the US?  Interested in picking one up ;D

Board is $125.00 plus shipping which depends on where (typ $8 to $9 via USPS) and sales tax if you are in AZ.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on June 10, 2020, 06:20:27 AM
Just arrived this morning, my shiny new Experimental Noize FX-Core Eval board.  :)

(https://i.imgur.com/0JF75m8l.jpg)

Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: niektb on June 10, 2020, 08:12:19 AM
This seems pretty fun I must say! But is there any spec comparison with the FV-1? :)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on June 10, 2020, 09:52:40 AM
Yeah the specs are all at the Experimental Noize website, the link to the docs is in the very first post in this thread. Lots of reading. :)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: niektb on June 10, 2020, 10:06:42 AM
Hahaha I hoped that somebody might have already created a short comparison (so I didn't have to read so much haha  :icon_mrgreen:)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: GaryInThailand on June 20, 2020, 01:13:22 AM
FXCore has more of everything. Except delay memory.. :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: potul on June 20, 2020, 03:48:44 AM
Hahaha I hoped that somebody might have already created a short comparison (so I didn't have to read so much haha  :icon_mrgreen:)

at a first glance what I see is:

-FX Core has internal program memory. No need for external EEPROM
-FX Core has the same delay memory
-FX Core has more LFOs
-FX Core has more POTs
-FX Core has buttons
-FX Core does NOT have ADC/DAC integrated

I didn't dig into the assembler language, so probably there are other relevant differences on what you can do with it.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: GaryInThailand on June 20, 2020, 04:46:53 AM
Hahaha I hoped that somebody might have already created a short comparison (so I didn't have to read so much haha  :icon_mrgreen:)

at a first glance what I see is:

-FX Core has internal program memory. No need for external EEPROM
-FX Core has the same delay memory
-FX Core has more LFOs
-FX Core has more POTs
-FX Core has buttons
-FX Core does NOT have ADC/DAC integrated

I didn't dig into the assembler language, so probably there are other relevant differences on what you can do with it.


to add on...
- FX Core supports 4 channels in and 4 out. As noted, this is via external ADC/DAC
- FX Core has an easy-to-use Tap Temp input
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on June 20, 2020, 02:33:20 PM
Adding a little more;
- 2 output pins controlled by user program
- Larger instruction set
- Both saturating and non-saturating math functions
- Can generate or sync to a word clock
- Faster execution, up to 1024 instructions per sample period
- Variable clocks per instruction
- 32-bit x 32-bit multiplier
- 32-bit and 64-bit accumulators
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: vigilante397 on June 20, 2020, 02:42:16 PM
I got my devboard a week ago and have yet to plug it in, super excited about it though 8)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on June 20, 2020, 05:38:42 PM
I got my devboard a week ago and have yet to plug it in, super excited about it though 8)

Got my Dev board as well, had a little try out of the programs already installed and managed to write a basic delay program. Sound quality is very good with the Dev board.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: vigilante397 on June 30, 2020, 05:44:14 PM
I finally got around to plugging in my dev board and playing around with the default programs. On a quick play-through I didn't feel like it was a huge step-up from the FV-1 on things like reverb, delay, and other modulation effects. I need to play with the compander a bit more to develop an opinion on that. The distortion isn't as bad as I expected, but isn't what I would consider a useful dirt tone either. The nano-looper only seems to loop about a second, unless I'm doing something wrong?

I will say the pitch shifter works better than the ones I've tried on FV-1. It tracks very well and the generated harmonies (I pretty much just did -1 and +1 octave) sounded excellent, very smooth and natural sound.

Definitely excited to play with this more :)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on July 01, 2020, 04:52:11 AM
I finally got around to plugging in my dev board and playing around with the default programs. On a quick play-through I didn't feel like it was a huge step-up from the FV-1 on things like reverb, delay, and other modulation effects. I need to play with the compander a bit more to develop an opinion on that. The distortion isn't as bad as I expected, but isn't what I would consider a useful dirt tone either. The nano-looper only seems to loop about a second, unless I'm doing something wrong?

I will say the pitch shifter works better than the ones I've tried on FV-1. It tracks very well and the generated harmonies (I pretty much just did -1 and +1 octave) sounded excellent, very smooth and natural sound.

Definitely excited to play with this more :)

With 32k of delay memory and 32kHz clock then a maximum of 1 second Nano looper time is correct.
Sound quality is superior with the external codecs.
The Compander installed program is really good once you get the hang of how to control it, that one alone was very impressive.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: MetalGuy on July 01, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
I'm sorry to hijack it but whatever happened with those DREAM Sound Synthesis DSP chips like SAM5504B for example? Those looked like a HUGE step up from the FV-1 and the new FXcore. Or maybe they are too complicated for DIY projects?
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Digital Larry on July 01, 2020, 06:45:47 PM
I'm sorry to hijack it but whatever happened with those DREAM Sound Synthesis DSP chips like SAM5504B for example? Those looked like a HUGE step up from the FV-1 and the new FXcore. Or maybe they are too complicated for DIY projects?
https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/sam5504-ek
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on July 02, 2020, 05:44:41 AM
I'm sorry to hijack it but whatever happened with those DREAM Sound Synthesis DSP chips like SAM5504B for example? Those looked like a HUGE step up from the FV-1 and the new FXcore. Or maybe they are too complicated for DIY projects?
Aren't these more like a synth chip for keyboards than an effects DSP?
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Digital Larry on July 02, 2020, 09:40:44 AM
I'm sorry to hijack it but whatever happened with those DREAM Sound Synthesis DSP chips like SAM5504B for example? Those looked like a HUGE step up from the FV-1 and the new FXcore. Or maybe they are too complicated for DIY projects?
Aren't these more like a synth chip for keyboards than an effects DSP?
Sure looks like it, although I think Keeley uses "some" Dream chip on recent DSP pedals.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: MetalGuy on July 02, 2020, 04:09:20 PM
Quote
https://www.profusionplc.com/parts/sam5504-ek

I know they are available from Profusion. What I meant was why we don't see it used in DIY projects. The thing has 4 DSP cores and tons of features. It looks like they have a guitar effects firmware as well:

https://www.dream.fr/pdf/Serie5000/Firmwares/Firm5504GTFX.pdf
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: knutolai on July 10, 2020, 01:48:24 PM
Where do you buy the FXCore development board? I can't find it on the Experimental Noize website  :icon_question:
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: vigilante397 on July 10, 2020, 02:17:41 PM
Where do you buy the FXCore development board? I can't find it on the Experimental Noize website  :icon_question:

Send them an email, they'll send you the quote, you pay the quote, they'll ship it to you absurdly fast. That was my experience anyway.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on July 10, 2020, 03:58:30 PM
Where do you buy the FXCore development board? I can't find it on the Experimental Noize website  :icon_question:

As your in Norway you will need to buy from the EU spplier. they have these in stock
https://www.profusionplc.com/type/development-board?mnf=exp%20noize
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: knutolai on July 22, 2020, 06:14:24 PM
Adding a little more;
- 2 output pins controlled by user program
- Larger instruction set
- Both saturating and non-saturating math functions
- Can generate or sync to a word clock
- Faster execution, up to 1024 instructions per sample period
- Variable clocks per instruction
- 32-bit x 32-bit multiplier
- 32-bit and 64-bit accumulators

Am I reading this correctly that it's possible to adjust the system clock via code, similarly to inputting a variable clock frequency to the crystal clock pin on the FV1?
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on July 22, 2020, 09:39:07 PM
Am I reading this correctly that it's possible to adjust the system clock via code, similarly to inputting a variable clock frequency to the crystal clock pin on the FV1?

No, it is not.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: mookyj on August 31, 2020, 01:46:09 PM
Hi Frank, when do expect a full boat of wafers?  Any estimate of full production? Not sure what node you are running on. Will you be offering bare die QFN, or BGA packages?  Given what it would cost to cover NRE for 90nm or smaller, thinking you are at 90nm or 180nm on an 8" wafer? There were some doing CSP packages on 8" not sure who is still in it after all the buyouts and the mover years ago to 12"   FInal question, do you have a link for dev boards?
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on August 31, 2020, 02:17:43 PM
There is a boat running now, due to an issue at the fab they had to restart it so we are behind the planned schedule.

Only offering in TQFP-64. QFN, BGA and bare die are not friendly to hand soldering. CSP was not even considered as it is not necessary for audio products and the added costs would have pushed up the price, also no one wants to try to hand solder a CSP package.

I don't know of anyone running any deep sub-micron like 90nm on 200mm, all I have seen is 300mm. 180nm is on 200mm as far as I know.

Sold out of dev boards and waiting on getting in the parts to build more.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Staapel on February 14, 2021, 07:34:10 AM
What is the use of the 4 inputs?  Only mixing or send to separate effects
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: ElectricDruid on February 14, 2021, 10:41:07 AM
What is the use of the 4 inputs?  Only mixing or send to separate effects

Your imagination is the only limit!

You could do full quadraphonic effects processing! With two chips, you could do per-voice effects for an eight voice synth! You could do two full stereo effects in one chip. You could four separate mono effects, perhaps for separate mixer channels. You could use one stereo pair of inputs to modulate the other stereo pair. Etc etc. There are a lot of possibilities. If you've only got a guitar with one mono output, then *perhaps* four inputs is overkill, but "guitar pedal" isn't the only use for this chip.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: GuitarPhil on February 19, 2021, 07:57:47 AM
You'll also need a dual CODEC chip for each pair of ins/outs.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: niektb on July 15, 2021, 04:17:36 PM
So apparently this thing is released now? I saw that two vendors have ICs in stock (rather than a full dev-board)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on July 15, 2021, 04:42:54 PM
So apparently this thing is released now? I saw that two vendors have ICs in stock (rather than a full dev-board)

Yes, The FXCore IC has been available now for a few months as a single item (rather the the Dev Board which has been available for well over a year). Shortages of other semiconductors, ie. Codec chips may prove a bit of a problem at the moment though.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on October 12, 2021, 05:47:39 PM
And the first FXCore pedal pedal goes into production https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCJIOL5DXF3KNCiskSeEVovJ42md05T2M
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: vigilante397 on October 13, 2021, 09:25:57 AM
And the first FXCore pedal pedal goes into production https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCJIOL5DXF3KNCiskSeEVovJ42md05T2M

Well that was absurdly cool. I love seeing Alexander's work, he always pushes things in new and interesting ways. All the shoegaze kids are going to lose their minds over that :P
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on October 13, 2021, 03:44:27 PM
And the first FXCore pedal pedal goes into production https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCJIOL5DXF3KNCiskSeEVovJ42md05T2M

Nice to see a commercial FX Core pedal hit the scene, looks and sounds great Alexander Pedals.  :)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Sweetalk on October 14, 2021, 05:29:50 AM
I saw it a few weeks ago and though "this is the FX Core". Congrats on the first release!!
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on October 16, 2021, 11:19:53 AM
A couple of pictures of an FXcore pedal I built a couple of months back, not a commercial release, I have an updated version which adds all the FXcore pots and switches to the plug in top PCB so by replacing the top control PCB I am able to choose any configuration of pots switches and LED's. 
(https://i.imgur.com/uV9id7Fb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NqjTMEDb.jpg)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: vigilante397 on October 16, 2021, 10:14:41 PM
A couple of pictures of an FXcore pedal I built a couple of months back, not a commercial release, I have an updated version which adds all the FXcore pots and switches to the plug in top PCB so by replacing the top control PCB I am able to choose any configuration of pots switches and LED's. 
(https://i.imgur.com/uV9id7Fb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NqjTMEDb.jpg)

Looks great Mick! What are you using for ADC/DAC? I still have the FXcore dev board that I've barely touched, and I keep telling myself I'll design something but haven't found the motivation yet :-/
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: bean on October 16, 2021, 10:21:31 PM
A couple of pictures of an FXcore pedal I built a couple of months back, not a commercial release, I have an updated version which adds all the FXcore pots and switches to the plug in top PCB so by replacing the top control PCB I am able to choose any configuration of pots switches and LED's. 
(https://i.imgur.com/uV9id7Fb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NqjTMEDb.jpg)

Looks fantastic!
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Ice-9 on October 17, 2021, 07:03:29 AM
A couple of pictures of an FXcore pedal I built a couple of months back, not a commercial release, I have an updated version which adds all the FXcore pots and switches to the plug in top PCB so by replacing the top control PCB I am able to choose any configuration of pots switches and LED's. 
(https://i.imgur.com/uV9id7Fb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NqjTMEDb.jpg)

Looks great Mick! What are you using for ADC/DAC? I still have the FXcore dev board that I've barely touched, and I keep telling myself I'll design something but haven't found the motivation yet :-/

Hi Nathan, this one is using a AK4556VT codec which I had but they and discontinued now. I managed to get hold of some of the newly released AK4619 which has 4 ins and 4 outs but they are a little more complex to set up. Codecs are so hard to get at the moment due to the Semiconductor shortages and the factory fires that have added to the lack of availability.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: Sweetalk on October 19, 2021, 05:28:15 AM
A couple of pictures of an FXcore pedal I built a couple of months back, not a commercial release, I have an updated version which adds all the FXcore pots and switches to the plug in top PCB so by replacing the top control PCB I am able to choose any configuration of pots switches and LED's. 
(https://i.imgur.com/uV9id7Fb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NqjTMEDb.jpg)

That's awesome!. Great idea to have the same base board and switch a secondary board for pot/swtiches configuration.
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: mark2 on March 21, 2022, 03:37:11 PM
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what's the reasoning (if any) behind the H-shaped copper fills on the dev board? It has solid rectangles on the opposite side.

(http://www.experimentalnoize.com/images/FXCore_dev_web.png)
Title: Re: FXCore coming soon?
Post by: octfrank on March 21, 2022, 07:41:38 PM
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what's the reasoning (if any) behind the H-shaped copper fills on the dev board? It has solid rectangles on the opposite side.

Cooling for the regulators, the pattern helps with dissipating heat better for lower thermal resistance. Since we do not know how a user will work with the dev board we assume people may pull power from it so better to play it safe with extra cooling.