So many circuits are clones or heavily inspired by others.
We see same circuit ideas (sometimes with same part values) in many pedal circuits. The genes of that pedal are obvious.
We speak of "oh it's just a modified Tube Screamer" or "it's another Klon clone"
I wanted to study a genealogy tree of pedals, to see how many "originals" are there, which are the branches of that family of pedals.
I know by now that Tube Screamer and Klon are two of the ancient ancestors that are distinct species.
I needed help to fill up the tree
Could you post sentences like this :
Pedal yyyy is a distinct species, different than other identified species
Or
Pedal xxxx is a Tube Screamer but they modified the ccccc
Or
Pedal look is a chimera, they took the Red Lama and added a BMP tone stack
With all that data, I hope to build up a "Family Tree" of pedals.
Unless such tree already exists.
http://www.effectsdatabase.com/ (http://www.effectsdatabase.com/) actually does a pretty good job of this in the "related" tab under common pedal searches (e.g., looking up Ibanez TS9 and scrolling down) if you're interested, though the website can be a bit cumbersome to navigate.
Thanks Andon.
I give you your first "like" on this forum for your helpful post.
Maxon reputedly introduced Tube Screamer to compete with earlier Boss pedals such as OD-1 and DS-1, which were some of the first distortion pedals that no longer sounded like a "fuzz" effect. (Maxon had previously released few similar, fuzzier distortion effects).
Tube Screamer is similar to OD-1 but with symmetric clipping and and adds a tone control.
Boss DS-1, on the other hand, is similar to Big Muff but replaces its cascaded distortion stages with a single high-gain opamp followed by shunt clipping diodes.
Fuzz Face is the second stage of mk 2 Tone Bender. Tone Benders, on the other hand, were initially British clones of American Fuzz Tone effects by Maestro. (Similarly as Marshall started by cloning Fender amps).
Fuzzrite -style fuzz circuits are clones of the "Red Box" that studio engineer Orville "Red" Rhodes built first for himself (to mimick tone of a broken audio transformer) and subsequently on custom basis.
You can likely trace the rudimentary circuits, which are very generic, to transistor manuals of the times.
I've a feeling the opamp driving clipping diode species may have started with MXR D+ but I've also a suspicion some circuits published in hobby magazines might have got there first.
Boss OD-1 1977
Boss DS-1 1978
MXR Distortion+ 1978
Maxon OD808 (Tube Screamer) 1978
Negative feedback -based diode clipping is featured already in Big Muff (1969) and generic shunt diode clipping in i.e. Vox UL series amps (1966) or Jordan Bosstone (1968). Deeper searching will probably find earlier examples. Diode limiting (in other applications than generating audio signal distortion intentionally) has most likely existed nearly as long as diodes. First patents naturally employ vacuum tube diodes.
Just to add a bit of info. Is not because one effect is called "just a something clone/variation" that the "something" effect is the "Adam/Eve" of that pedal line. Instead, in some cases it's just because the "something" pedal is more famous than any of it's parents.
Some examples were already pointed out. TS can be called a modded OD1, but you don't see people saying "this one is just another OD1". Instead you see people saying "this is another TS". The same goes for some Marshall-like amps, some early Marshalls were just clones/mods of Fender stuff, but people refer to similar amps more often as "Marshall-like" than "Fender-like".
MXR distortion+ was 1974. All of the classic MXR pedals like the Dynacomp were around by the mid 1970's. All of them progrock staples.
The classic Boss 9v boxed pedals were later (I think of them as post-punk) and 1978 seems about right.
I stand corrected. Very similar opamp driven designs, Dan Armstrong Blue Clipper and Gretsch Controfuzz, are from the same period then. I believe introduced in 1973 and 1974, respectively.
Gretsch was CMI company back then and, IIRC, Gibson and SG Systems amps of that early 1970's era also had diode clipping distortion circuits. There were also few transistorized Laney amps with "Klipp" circuit, which in this case was just solid-state clipping diodes. I can't remember if they were opamp-based or discrete designs though. Anyway, the scheme was becoming very popular - I believe due to its consistency vs. discrete gain stages, overdriven or not.
a bunch of family names:
the big muff
the op amp big muff,
foxx tone machine,
mayer octavio,
ampeg scrambler,
green ringer,
super fuzz,
tonebender mk1
fuzz face and earlier tonebender mk2, the tonebender mk2s are basically fuzzface with an input gainstage added,
tonebender mk3
maestro fuzz tones, all of them i find distinct enough to give them their own family, not put them in one,
gretsch controfuzz, its a really cool one, and certainly unique
companion fuzz//mosrite fuzz (??? im not really sure about the lineage, they have stuff in common but also a lot of differences)
roland bee baa fuzz,
BOSS HM 2
BOSS metal zone
BOSS blues driver
BOSS turbo overdrive
bazz fuss
bronx cheer
lockhard wavefolder* (transistor wavefolder like in 'tripple fuzz' and zvex 'machine')
opamp wavefolder* (i have no examples but my own diy projects, it sound distinctly different from the transistor version)
the marshall bluesbreaker and guv'nor are a different species, and a lot of pedals are based on them, KoT, morning Glory
happy? this it just what i remember off the top of my head
cheers, Iain
* they aren't actually pedal families, but circuit blocks, however they are rare enough that most pedals that use them are hard to put in to other families of pedals and are designed around the circuit block
edit: just remembered:
rangemaster
LPB1
electra distortion
alembic stratoblaster
jordan bosstone
harmonic percolator
QuoteThere were also few transistorized Laney amps with "Klipp" circuit, which in this case was just solid-state clipping diodes.
the klipp circuit was a range master build into the amp
No it's not. It's a non-inverting differential amp circuit with starved plate voltage supply and a "gain" control that blends between distorted and clean signal in their Klipp tube amps and a generic diode clipping circuit in their solid state amps with the Klipp feature. Schematics for the tube amps can be found very easily (and are almost impossible to find for the transistorized models) and nowhere do they depict a Rangemaster -type circuit.
What was the first song to use distortion ?
Can't remember if it was "I cant get no Satisfaction"
or Rumble
Names being derived from the source that popularised - not invented - them is spot on. Sometimes names have nothing to do with the circuit but are sustained via perpetuation.
i.e. "Big Muff tone control": Originally Basic circuit that blends between RC low-pass and hi-pass circuits developed already in the late 1930's.
Or "Baxandall tone control"... let's not even start this.
Goree Carter's "Rock Awhile" ...? (1949)
Quote from: Vivek on November 16, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
What was the first song to use distortion ?
Can't remember if it was "I cant get no Satisfaction"
or Rumble
Distortion were already gotten by means like damaging the speakers in early 50's. But the first commercial fuzz unit seems to be the Maestro FZ-1 (62), which was the one used by Keith on Satisfaction (65).
Quote from: Vivek on November 16, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
What was the first song to use distortion ?
Can't remember if it was "I cant get no Satisfaction"
or Rumble
its 'rocket 88' by ike turner.
when you want real fuzz, its; 'don't worry' by marty robbins, about 10 years later
Quote from: teemuk on November 16, 2020, 10:50:01 AM
No it's not. It's a non-inverting differential amp circuit with starved plate voltage supply and a "gain" control that blends between distorted and clean signal in their Klipp tube amps and a generic diode clipping circuit in their solid state amps with the Klipp feature. Schematics for the tube amps can be found very easily (and are almost impossible to find for the transistorized models) and nowhere do they depict a Rangemaster -type circuit.
in that case, i have been misinformed, thanks for the correction.
https://youtu.be/v4coJgwLXBY?t=190 this link is timestamped for the source of the misinformation.
cheers, Iain
Quote from: Vivek on November 16, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
What was the first song to use distortion ?
Can't remember if it was "I cant get no Satisfaction"
or Rumble
Distortion can be heard in Charlie Christian's playing for Benny Goodman in the late 1930s. You might as well ask "when
hasn't distortion been a part of electric guitar?" ;)
I was surprised the first time I listened to Tiffany Transcriptions-era (1945-1947) Bob Wills. A fair amount of dirt on some of those guitar, electric mandolin, and steel guitar solos -- and Bob didn't seem to mind a bit!
Or are you really thinking of the first song to use a distortion pedal of any kind?
Quote from: teemuk on November 16, 2020, 03:23:47 AM
Fuzz Face is the second stage of mk 2 Tone Bender.
The Fuzz Face is a clone of an early version of the MK1.5 Tone Bender.
The MKII is a MK1.5 with a buffer stage added to its front. Many MKIIs were originally MK1.5s that Sola Sound upgraded to MKII specs.
Quote from: Electric Warrior
The MKII is a MK1.5 with a buffer stage added to its front.
a gain stage, not a buffer stage, look at the collector and emitter!
(https://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mkII/voxmkIIschematic.gif)
Once we identify Adam & Eve, next we have to find the snake.
Quote from: iainpunk on November 16, 2020, 03:35:46 PM
Quote from: Electric Warrior
The MKII is a MK1.5 with a buffer stage added to its front.
a gain stage, not a buffer stage, look at the collector and emitter!
(https://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mkII/voxmkIIschematic.gif)
Ha! I've seen it being called a buffer stage so often, I assumed it was true. :D
It sure keeps the signal over the threshold of gating, so it certainly adds gain..
That schematic should have a 10k on Q1s base and OC75s, btw.
Quote from: Vivek on November 16, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
What was the first song to use distortion ?
Can't remember if it was "I cant get no Satisfaction"
or Rumble
from 1963 perhaps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBPwwdd9a14
We already have a thread on the Heathkit TA-28 fuzz here:
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=90489.0
The interesting thing is the power from a 1.5 volt battery. It would have come out around 1974.
I had heard a story about the Kinks using a slashed speaker on something, and that being the start of the "fuzz" sound, but I'm pretty sure that there were other fuzz sounds before that.
I think a lot of that earlier stuff is more overdriven or distorted amps. I'm sure that a whole series of books could be written about it. I'd read them.
Chorus comes from Hammond organs yeah? then Roland, then the CE-1. Maybe DM-1 is similar. The arrival of BBD ushered them in. Often, the seminal designs are basically the first audio hack of a common device, or more relatively recently, fleshed out app notes.
Quote from: matmosphere on November 16, 2020, 04:41:40 PM
I think a lot of that earlier stuff is more overdriven or distorted amps. I'm sure that a whole series of books could be written about it. I'd read them.
Or just overdriven / poor quality recording equipment. AFAIK, big problem was capturing the LOUD tone of overdriven amps in studio. Some of distortion is just due to recording technique, such as Howling Wolf (IIRC) playing his guitar in a corner, facing it, so that walls reinforce the guitar's sound.
Quote from: garcho on November 16, 2020, 11:27:36 PM
Chorus comes from Hammond organs yeah? then Roland, then the CE-1. Maybe DM-1 is similar. The arrival of BBD ushered them in. Often, the seminal designs are basically the first audio hack of a common device, or more relatively recently, fleshed out app notes.
the ''chorus'' comes from leslie speakers, which were usually hooked up to electric organs and later being used by guitarists including Hendrix. a japanese dude thought he could replicate the sound in a smaller enclosure and build the first UNIVIBE. that is the first phaser, which was followed by a bunch of other phasers that did some things different. when BBD chips came, the chorus and flanger were invented, at first to replace the phaser, but they discovered that they were different enough that the chorus and flanger were marketed as a different kind of effect, alongside phasers.
cheers, Iain
There were "phase shift" vibratos before the Univibe. Magna Electronics / Estey (e.g. Magnatone amps) made them with varistors in an all-pass filter whereas Jennings (Vox) employed variable resistance of vacuum tubes panning between two differently phase-shifted signal paths. FETs and LDRs made the design more compact and I believe Univibe just eventually popularised the circuit. They certainly did not conceive it.
First Bucket Brigade Device chorus may have been made by Roland but I believe the technology, similarly to first spring reverb units, was initially built for telecommunications, not for music industry.
"Phaser" as musical effect was initially discovered when someone, accidentally or not, slowed down a tape echo manually. I wouldn't be surprised if there exists a tape echo unit with such feature.
Quote from: teemuk on November 17, 2020, 08:28:26 AM
"Phaser" as musical effect was initially discovered when someone, accidentally or not, slowed down a tape echo manually. I wouldn't be surprised if there exists a tape echo unit with such feature.
Isnt that flanging?
We must not forget historical perspective either. In the early days many effects were developed for organs - not for guitars - and from there the inventions were slowly adopted. Forerunners were usually companies that manufactured organs and accordions.
Maestro's Fuzztone was initially designed as a "synthesizer" that could turn guitar to sound like a horn instead. Jennings had a whole range of such "synthesizer" products. The famous guitar riff in Rolling Stones' "Satisfaction" was initially a demo track for horn meant to be recorded later. They decuded to keep it instead, which had dramatic impact to future of guitar music.
Quote
There were "phase shift" vibratos before the Univibe. Magna Electronics / Estey (e.g. Magnatone amps) made them with varistors in an all-pass filter whereas Jennings (Vox) employed variable resistance of vacuum tubes panning between two differently phase-shifted signal paths. FETs and LDRs made the design more compact and I believe Univibe just eventually popularised the circuit. They certainly did not conceive it.
yes, but the univibe was the first 'effect pedal' the other vibrato's were built in to amps, organs etc. and this thread being about pedals, i didn't take them in to account. also, the univide made a big difference to the forerunners, more stages with all having different frequency ranges and mixing in clean to get that swooshy effect instead of the vibrato effect.
If this is about the adam and eve of guitar pedals, surely the electric organ is the Garden of Eden and Ma Bell is god.
Howlin Wolf wasn't on guitar, Hubert Sumlin was, the guy who invented rock guitar. He played loud overdriven guitar riffs when everyone else was just chucking chords or playing bottleneck.
Quote from: teemuk on November 17, 2020, 12:19:33 AMOr just overdriven / poor quality recording equipment. AFAIK, big problem was capturing the LOUD tone of overdriven amps in studio. Some of distortion is just due to recording technique, such as Howling Wolf (IIRC) playing his guitar in a corner, facing it, so that walls reinforce the guitar's sound.
I've heard of Robert Johnson doing that, too. Probably occurs to most guitarists at some point. Something about the guitar just compels us to find ways to change its sound, doesn't it? :icon_idea:
Could be it was Robert Johnson instead, my memory fails me often.
Back to topic, as far as I know two very first "effect boxes" ever were a volume pedal, simply titled "Volume Pedal", and an electro mechanic tremolo effect, titled "Tremolo Control", from DeArmond. Both manufactured by Rowe Industries in the early 1930's. The latter, initially a carry-on effect, was refined to foot-operated form in circa 1948.
All of the Robert Johnson recordings are on acoustic guitar, no amps. The recordings themselves are somewhat distorted though. It was the 1920s after all.
Quote from: willienillie on November 17, 2020, 07:29:43 PM
All of the Robert Johnson recordings are on acoustic guitar, no amps. The recordings themselves are somewhat distorted though. It was the 1920s after all.
For sure. I was referring to him facing a wall (or corner, as it may have been) with his acoustic. :)
(https://cdn.smehost.net/robertjohnsonbluesfoundationorg-uslegacyprod/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/140508_kingofdeltavol2.jpg)
He just really liked that wallpaper.
Oops, I should have said 1930s, not 1920s.
I taught him all those songs in the 20s, that's why I got confused.
I think people were overdriving the mixer but satisfaction - maestro is one of the first commercial pedals.
https://www.samash.com/spotlight/the-history-of-guitar-distortion-how-the-most-important-guitar-effect-came-to-be/
Quote from: teemuk on November 17, 2020, 10:16:14 AMBack to topic, as far as I know two very first "effect boxes" ever were a volume pedal, simply titled "Volume Pedal", and an electro mechanic tremolo effect, titled "Tremolo Control", from DeArmond. Both manufactured by Rowe Industries in the early 1930's. The latter, initially a carry-on effect, was refined to foot-operated form in circa 1948.
I think I need one now!
Arduino driving a servo that twists a volume pot!!!!! 2020 version!
Quote from: aron on November 18, 2020, 01:31:53 AM
Arduino driving a servo that twists a volume pot!!!!! 2020 version!
There aren't nearly enough DIY Whizzers in the world!
> using a slashed speaker
Link Wray was known for this. Also popularizing the Power Chord. Did not get along with corporate music, worked a lot on a 3-track in his chicken shed.
___________________________
Modern DIY "Liquid Tremolo": http://hackaweek.com/hacks/liquid-tremolo-with-glass-cleaner/
Quote from: ThermionicScott on November 17, 2020, 09:50:24 PM
Quote from: teemuk on November 17, 2020, 10:16:14 AMBack to topic, as far as I know two very first "effect boxes" ever were a volume pedal, simply titled "Volume Pedal", and an electro mechanic tremolo effect, titled "Tremolo Control", from DeArmond. Both manufactured by Rowe Industries in the early 1930's. The latter, initially a carry-on effect, was refined to foot-operated form in circa 1948.
I think I need one now!
those are the most fantastic knobs I've ever seen. are they originals? and what's special about windex (tm probably)?
Quote
those are the most fantastic knobs I've ever seen. are they originals? and what's special about windex (tm probably)?
Windex conducts really good and doesn't resolve over time, leaving residue, where salt does leave residue and stuff
i also like those knobs a lot
cheers, Iain
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4d65e29ef659d9612f69e3df681b57cd/tumblr_mpxhdbeKtj1sp9fcho1_500.gif)
OP, I found this site to be helpful. While not quite the 'phylogenetic tree' or tree of life, it's a wheel of pedals and that's gotta be worth a spin, eh?
https://www.guitarpedalx.com/news/gpx-blog/12-degrees-of-saturation--2020-key-distortion-categories-edition
*edit update for 2020