I'm trying to use PNP Blue to transfer an etch mask onto an enclosure, but each time I try, I get an incomplete transfer.
(https://i.imgur.com/vcbQdETl.jpg)
After a third fail, I figured it was time to ask for help. Any suggestions?
A bit more info:
The enclosure surface is sanded flat (I'll have to check the grit of the sanding pad, but it isn't mirror polished).
The surface is scrubbed clean with pure acetone before each attempt.
I'm using my household iron on its highest setting, with a double layer of parchment paper between it and the transfer film. I have left the iron in place for a few minutes before moving it, then I move it sparingly (on the first attempt, I smeared the toner, which I'm trying to avoid). I have tried quenching the ironed enclosure in cold water, and I have tried letting it cool down on its own.
I think the problem is that you're using something that requires heat to transfer material from one surface (the sheet) to another (the enclosure), but the surface you're trying to transfer to is fundamentally a heat sink, so the required heat to transfer things can be easily dissipated.
The question is: how to heat the enclosure up in a uniform manner?
Would preheating the enclosure in the oven be a help?
Rob, @deadastronaut is the first person that comes to mind as the leading light here on enclosure etching.
dave
I succeeded with this stuff quite a while back, but I didn't take good notes so I can replicate it.
(http://i.imgur.com/gA6dNhfl.jpg)
I at least know it is possible to get a good transfer with PNP Blue and the iron I own, which makes failure more frustrating. :icon_frown:
I think I was following a tutorial from the Gallery page back then (maybe...), but I can't find it anymore.
I think I'll give it another go with a lower iron setting. Perhaps I'm deforming the film by heating it too quickly. Just a wild guess though.
From your description it seems like you are doing everything right. But, maybe you went too far on sanding prep? I usually use 220 grit then finish with cross hatch sanding. This leaves a rough enough surface for the PNP to grab onto through heating. I also use the highest setting on the iron and start with a single sheet of copy paper over the PNP. After a couple minutes of that I go straight to the PNP with the iron and use the tip with pressure to really get it baked in.
Even with all that you can still get splotching like in your pic. What I usually do is apply shaprie to those areas in two passes. Then take a bit of clear shipping tape and cut small pieces to cover those areas to ensure the etchant doesn't get to it.
Lastly, cover all the sides with shipping tape and use an eye dropper to apply etchant just to the top surface (IOW don't fill a tub with etch and place the enclosure face down). You only need a tiny bit of etchant applied to the surface and if you are careful it will stay in place and not run down the sides. If you use this method you can get a good etch in as little as 3 to 4 minutes.
Have you tried NPN?
Are you daisy chaining?
I'm still working on this problem, but I think I'm getting closer:
(https://i.imgur.com/LrlBWr6l.jpg)
I roughed up the surface a bit more and switched from an iron to a small heat press.
Still not what I'd call "good". I'm going to try an even rougher surface and perhaps a lower temperature, unless anyone has any other suggestions.
I think I've had 7 failures so far. If I get to 10, I'll probably just quit and go back to decals.
how about just touching it up with nail varnish?
my guess is it needs a coarse grit sand..like 180...to get a good grip.
then use a finer grit once etched....which is what i do when etching/toner/ferric.
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 01, 2021, 12:43:18 PM
how about just touching it up with nail varnish?
I almost could, and I did consider it. I'm not worried about the spots away from the letters (I need to manually fill in the intentional voids anyway, so a few more dabs of paint are nothing), but there are a few areas I don't think I could neatly fix, specifically the DC jack label, the "M" in "LEMON", and the "S O L" switch label. I am willing to forgo the DC jack label, if necessary.
Art supply shops sell extremely small brushes that give you a better chance at fine fine detail painting and if you do stray a razor edge like a #11 Xacto blade can fix that after the paint/nail polish has dried.
15/0, 10/0 sized brushes...
eg.
https://www.micromark.com/Micron-Brush-Set-1?gclid=Cj0KCQiAvvKBBhCXARIsACTePW9v11xoI75Xq7eh6L7emff8KtfkDIRD36hFl-9EXiDjbskLDMbt1OkaAhqlEALw_wcB
I need a 10x jeweler's loupe to be able to see well enough and have one i can hold in my eye socket, hands free, to do fine work.
dave
I don't have an answer to your issue but I always found Press n' peel Blue to be a nightmare to work with. Really delicate (warps under too much heat like you said and scatches easily. I'd often find I'd scratch the unused sheets just by placing cuttings back in the packet) and ludicrously expensive compared to other options. That said there's every chance the stuff I was using was substandard and overpriced (Maplin).
Cheap Glossy photo paper is my goto now whenever I'm etching (which is not all that often if I'm honest) and I haven't had half as many issues. Now and again I'll get a bad transfer and need to start over but it's so rare (and cheap compared to PNP blue) its much less of an issue.
I think I'm going to put this project back down for a while. I don't feel like trying to fix things like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/6BdtJ16m.jpg)
When I pick it back up in a month or so, I will probably give glossy photo paper a try.
^ ive never had a bad result with cheapo glossy 150gsm paper
as long as the toner save is turned off, and its set for best /thick quality
it should be fine.
i recently bought a new toner cartridge for my samsung ML1660 cheap, was £10.00
when i first bought my printer the cartridges were around £100.00 so i took a punt on the cheap replacement
and its just as good as the original cartridge...result.
Is there a particular brand of photo paper that works well? Does it matter if it says "for Inkjet"?
i use any old photo paper......so i doubt it matters.
as long as it has a sheen on it...
Does press and peel have a shelf?
With the art you're using you've got three distinct sections, what if you cut your art into three pieces and applied one at a time instead of trying to do the whole of the top all at once. Then too if one section comes out sucky you just have to fix up one rather go back to square one every time.
Haven't tried doing an enclosure and my experience using commercial product for toner transfer to pcb were abysmal so i moved on, no expert...
dave
Quote from: davent on March 03, 2021, 11:35:27 AM
With the art you're using you've got three distinct sections, what if you cut your art into three pieces and applied one at a time instead of trying to do the whole of the top all at once. Then too if one section comes out sucky you just have to fix up one rather go back to square one every time.
I thought about doing the heating in sections. The thing that stopped me is the knowledge that it is possible (somehow) to get a perfect transfer with this stuff (see my Reply #4 (https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=126084.msg1204384#msg1204384) above).
Anyway, I've ordered some cheap glossy photo paper, and I will report back.
The same iron, safe to assume same transfer material, same box manufacturer, same moon phase... anything else that might have been different this time 'round?
I never sorted my own struggles with the process.
dave
Quote from: davent on March 03, 2021, 06:09:25 PM
The same iron, safe to assume same transfer material, same box manufacturer, same moon phase... anything else that might have been different this time 'round?
I never sorted my own struggles with the process.
dave
The most significant difference I can see affecting things is the holes. My previous success was with an undrilled enclosure. Perhaps hot air is pushing up under the film.
You know what? Tonight, I will try a transfer with some relief holes in the film where the drill spots are. Maybe....
QuoteThe most significant difference I can see affecting things is the holes. My previous success was with an undrilled enclosure. Perhaps hot air is pushing up under the film.
You know what? Tonight, I will try a transfer with some relief holes in the film where the drill spots are. Maybe
I've got no idea what the problem is.
Another effect is the holes prevent heat from being conducted away via the underlying aluminium so maybe the plastic is shrinking around the holes.
For tricky problems like this I try to look for patterns. I can see more of a tendency to fail near the edges and less in the large central area. Maybe a slight tendency for failures near the holes. It's by no means a clear conclusion as the entire right edge isn't bad. Overall it looks fairly random and in small regions.
Maybe the problem is elsewhere. One possibility is it's just not cooked enough, simple as that. Another is the sheet itself has random surface issues in patches.
I wish you luck.
Quote from: EBK on March 03, 2021, 10:55:45 AM
Is there a particular brand of photo paper that works well? Does it matter if it says "for Inkjet"?
I'm with Rob in that I just use anything that's glossy. Whatever is cheapest!
The pack I have just now is 220gsm and says its for Inkjet, no issues at all with my laser printer (cheap Samsung m2020). £2 for 15 sheets of A4.
220gsm is maybe a little on the thick side, with this stuff I have to set the paper type to "labels" otherwise it's sometimes jams in the printer.
Someone mentioned preheating the enclosure before applying PNP. I agree.
I think the PNP is not getting hot enough because the sides of the enclosure are cold and acting like a heat sink. That is taking heat away from the transfer surface.
I few months ago, I discovered that preheating larger circuit boards makes the transfer work better. I think the same would apply to enclosure transfers.
It's worth a shot. I have a blue transfer sitting here, so I can easily try preheating.
Cutting around the holes, by the way, did not improve the result last night:
(https://i.imgur.com/0vKFsUZm.jpg)
I'll try the preheating this afternoon.
I recently had my own misadventures after great success last year and the year before. DOn't really know what changed, I used the same kind of paper, the same printer etc. I will try this weekend - thinking about using a spray substance called "Toner-Verdichter" (roughly translated "Toner Condenser") which I happen to have a can of around from past PCB phototransfer experimental endeavours. Thinking about spraying the condenser directly to the sanded and cleaned surface, applying the print-out and then proceeding as usual - pressing the iron down with force for some minutes, then gentle circular motions with the iron. Will feed back what I learned.
Quote from: slashandburn on March 04, 2021, 09:04:54 AM
Quote from: EBK on March 03, 2021, 10:55:45 AM
Is there a particular brand of photo paper that works well? Does it matter if it says "for Inkjet"?
I'm with Rob in that I just use anything that's glossy. Whatever is cheapest!
The pack I have just now is 220gsm and says its for Inkjet, no issues at all with my laser printer (cheap Samsung m2020). £2 for 15 sheets of A4.
220gsm is maybe a little on the thick side, with this stuff I have to set the paper type to "labels" otherwise it's sometimes jams in the printer.
i accidentally bought 220gsm and it got stuck in my printer,it was pretty thick stuff, it was a pain in the ass, as it then took ages to get a clean print out after....had to run loads of standard a4 paper through it to get it clean.....so i stick with cheapo 150gsm max... 8)
I never did enclosure etching, but back when I etched PCBs and had trouble with PNP blue a handful of people on here recommended magazine pages, and I had great success with that. Rip a page out of a magazine, run it through the printer, iron it on. Better results than I ever got with PNP.
What happens if you use regular printer paper?
dave
Inkjet photo paper really shouldnt be used in a laser printer, as the toner fuser (heater) can lift the coating off and get on the rollers etc. Gyess how I know :)
Quote from: davent on March 04, 2021, 12:58:23 PM
What happens if you use regular printer paper?
dave
The toner bonds solidly with the paper and doesn't release onto the enclosure. You need something non-porous so the toner sticks but doesn't solidly adhere, so it will release when applied to a heated surface..
Well, preheating was interesting. As soon as the film touched the hot enclosure, it was stuck, meaning there is only one chance to get it lined up. Unfortunately, the transfer wasn't any better. I'd post a pic, but it looks exactly the same as the other attempts. At least my results are perfectly consistent even if they cannot be consistently perfect. :icon_lol:
Quote from: vigilante397 on March 04, 2021, 01:41:57 PM
Quote from: davent on March 04, 2021, 12:58:23 PM
What happens if you use regular printer paper?
dave
The toner bonds solidly with the paper and doesn't release onto the enclosure. You need something non-porous so the toner sticks but doesn't solidly adhere, so it will release when applied to a heated surface..
Thanks Nathan. I do a no heat wet toner transfers with regular paper in place of decals but that process would never work for etching and doesn't involve the toner releasing from the paper, you soak the paper with water and rub it off.
dave
Photo paper arrived.
Unfortunately, the gloss film on this paper seems to melt more easily than the toner. I have much better adhesion to my enclosure in the unprinted areas, and worse, the back of the paper sticks very well once heated too. I had to whack my enclosure with a hammer to get it unstuck from my heat press! :icon_eek:
I'm in the process of removing the mess.
(https://i.imgur.com/Odqs67Tl.jpg)
I'm just going to take this as a sign that I am not meant to etch enclosures. :icon_rolleyes:
hang on, heat press?..
not using a clothes iron then.
@dave, im sure you mentioned your no heat toner transfer before, with plain paper
how does that work again?...is it with a mix of acetone and .....
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 05, 2021, 11:51:52 AM
hang on, heat press?..
not using a clothes iron then.
Don't get too excited. This is a small handheld heat press, smaller than a clothes iron.
(https://i.imgur.com/8uEwUQRm.jpg)
Bottom view, with 1590B for scale:
(https://i.imgur.com/PgNOuGOm.jpg)
About half of my failures in this thread were with my clothes iron, so once again, I got the same results when changing a variable. :icon_lol:
Damn, you're not having much luck Eric.
Does anyone know if hexjibber's tutorial is still online somewhere? That's what I followed when I started and I haven't ran into half as many issues.
As an aside (apologies to Eric for derailing this) the no heat toner transfer Rob mentioned reminds me of something I seen a while ago. Just magazine paper and acetone iirc. Put the magazine paper in place, drench it in acetone and give it a rub. Seemed to work fine for the guy in the video but I didn't have any luck with a few small pcbs so I just went back to the clothes iron.
Experiment with "Toner Condenser" failed. Toner didn't stick at all :( Well - sand, rinse, repeat
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 05, 2021, 11:51:52 AM
@dave, im sure you mentioned your no heat toner transfer before, with plain paper
how does that work again?...is it with a mix of acetone and .....
Hi Rob, i use primarily Golden brand acrylic artists paint for enclosures and they have extensive line uncoloured mediums. The medium i use is GAC200, dries water clear, hard and glossy, it's an adhesion promoter.
All i do is laser print the art reversed onto regular paper, coat the face of the print with the GAC and stick it down and smooth out where you want it, don't get any of the GAC on the back of the paper. Let it dry overnight, next day rough up the paper with some sandpaper, once roughed up use a spray bottle to saturate the paper with water and rub the paper off with a finger/thumb. Just keep wetting and rubbing and you can get rid of all the paper fibers. Will take some patience and if the paint/medium starts to reabsorb water looking milky let it dry/clear then carry on with the wet removal.
Don't have to use a clear medium you could just use the same paint, different coloured paint that was used for the enclosure.
dave
Mad lil iron....
When i iron toner i criss cross the paper with the tip....
Then once done i shock it into instantly cooling by lobbing it into cold water....and let paper soak...
I rub off paper, and i use a toothbrush a scrub it to get residue off...
If it can take a good scrubbing without coming off its all good for etching....
Found Hexjibbers tutorial if it's any help to Eric or anyone else. I don't expect there to be much in here that Eric isn't already aware of but who knows, might be a few nuggets of wisdom that could make the difference. It's worked for me anyway.
https://diy-guitar-effects.tumblr.com/etching (https://diy-guitar-effects.tumblr.com/etching)
Here's something interesting. I tried my photo paper again, but at higher heat. And, the paper kind of "exploded". This is the result (the paper, not the enclosure):
(https://i.imgur.com/JEc6dw5l.jpg)
There was an audible pop, and my heat press jumped slightly. The toner and gloss film are missing from that bare area in the pic, and you can sort of see fracture lines leading away from it. Oddly, only the jettisoned chip adhered itself to the enclosure. Everything else basically peeled away cleanly, i.e., no toner transferred.
Magazine paper next.
Update:
This is quite encouraging, actually. Note, I didn't bother moving my heat press around to ensure that the paper was thoroughly ironed, which (I hope) explains the poor quality. But, the toner that did transfer did so quite well and held up to a toothbrush.
(https://i.imgur.com/es7M2P8l.jpg)
I will sand and clean this and try again (but more seriously this time :icon_razz:).
Update 2:
Ok. Closer, but still nope.
(https://i.imgur.com/cYPuCJ7l.jpg)
I think I've tried hard enough. It was a fun set of experiments, but I'm done. :icon_smile:
QuoteI think I've tried hard enough. It was a fun set of experiments, but I'm done. :icon_smile:
The common factor in all your tests is the printer, toner, and printer settings.
Quote from: Rob Strand on March 05, 2021, 05:46:53 PM
QuoteI think I've tried hard enough. It was a fun set of experiments, but I'm done. :icon_smile:
The common factor in all your tests is the printer, toner, and printer settings.
The only things I didn't change over the course of my experiments were me and my house.
The exploding paper incident tells me that I am the problem, and it is some sort of curse. :icon_razz:
Quote
The only things I didn't change over the course of my experiments were me and my house.
The exploding paper incident tells me that I am the problem, and it is some sort of curse
It's one of those "why me" cases.
I remember this funny letter about one of the amplifier projects, on page 69,
https://worldradiohistory.com/AUSTRALIA/ETI-Australia/80s/ETI%201981-12%20December.pdf
Quote from: EBK on March 05, 2021, 07:42:20 PM
The only things I didn't change over the course of my experiments were me and my house.
I'll find you some links to houses for sale in Mottingham. Proximity to Rob will doubtless improve things.
Quote from: Rob Strand on March 05, 2021, 09:26:47 PM
Quote
The only things I didn't change over the course of my experiments were me and my house.
The exploding paper incident tells me that I am the problem, and it is some sort of curse
It's one of those "why me" cases.
I remember this funny letter about one of the amplifier projects, on page 69,
https://worldradiohistory.com/AUSTRALIA/ETI-Australia/80s/ETI%201981-12%20December.pdf
This is me:
:icon_lol:
My ineptitude was what finally pushed me to buy a CNC machine, and my messiness with ferric on clothes and carpet was what finally pushed my wife to let me :P
I may have a winner:
- I use this paper (first time I used photo paper): https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07MCKSN59/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07MCKSN59/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), design printed from my old and cheap HP LaserJet MFP something.
- I just cleaned the enclosure (original Hammond 1590B) with acetone and paper towel ("Kitchen Roll?") NO sanding at all
- I used my trusty old flat iron. First 5 minutes I let it sit in the "Wool" Setting until I was sure the paper stuck to the enclosure. Then I put a piece of paper towel (kitchen roll) on it and pressed down hard, moving the iron in circular motion. When I got bored I cranked it to "Linnen" (highest setting with this iron), let it sit there and smoked a cigarette or worked on a text I had to proof-read. I took care to give the edges of the photo paper extra care. All in all I spent 10 minutes of my life time on this.
- I shocked the enclosure immediately in cold water in my bathroom sink, then added hot tap water and a drop of dishwashing detergent and let it sit for 20-30 minutes.
- Rubbing-off with my fingers, as soon as I had the feeling, the paper coat was soaked through enough.
- Still in progress - I have the gut-feeling that the water temperature is somehow essential. Lukewarm isn't enough - takes AGES
As you can see, it's far from perfect. I assume two things: 1. this printer of mine can't adjust the amount of toner that's being printed. A bit more would go a long way to perfection. 2. I COULD have ironed it on a bit longer, taking more care to the tones masses in the middle of the design and on the edges. I'm a terribly impatient person.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mPpvtVsN/etching.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPpvtVsN)
SInce I have to do some 5 or 6 enclosures in the near future (next 7 days) I will keep ya updated and will try to perfect this method without sanding and using photopaper instead of magazine pages.
Tomorrow I'll try this: https://www.instructables.com/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/ (https://www.instructables.com/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/)
Not knowing about this, does the surface need to be flat ?
Will the stuff not transfer into a small pocket ?
Quote from: Phend on March 09, 2021, 07:13:42 AM
Not knowing about this, does the surface need to be flat ?
Will the stuff not transfer into a small pocket ?
Assuming you are talking about the PNP Blue stuff, it is designed to work well with very flat copper clad PCBs. The film is more or less supposed to cleanly release the toner, and it is up to the PCB to stick to it. I would expect that a very small amount of surface roughness would improve the transfer. I can no longer recall how smooth the surface was when I successfully used this stuff though.
There's another consideration in transferring i didn't consider, is the enclosure you've been working with sanded perfectly flat?
dave
This is as good as it gets with photo paper & ironing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xkCmNPL9/mosphat-II.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xkCmNPL9)
"Heatless" experiment stalled - I need very light but glossy magazine paper, photo paper won't give up the toner, no matter how high the Acetone's part in the mixture. Gotta dive the recycling paper container downstairs. Oh what they'll laugh, ha, ha.
Quote from: davent on March 09, 2021, 11:35:13 AM
There's another consideration in transferring i didn't consider, is the enclosure you've been working with sanded perfectly flat?
dave
Pretty sure. I've resanded it about 20 times at this point with a sanding block. At one point, I actually found myself checking the thickness of the metal to make sure I wasn't in danger of sanding the enclosure face out of existence. :icon_razz:
When using a handheld sanding block there's a natural tendency to take more material from the outer edges and create a non-flat surface. If you attach a sheet of sandpaper to a large flat stationary surface and sand the enclosure face on that you'll get it flat.
dave
^ Might want to first take a black marker and cover the entire top. Then start sanding, when all the black marker is gone it should be flat. Like Dave says put a bigger sand paper sheet on a known flat surface. Hold the enclosure top side down on the sand paper and use "a circular motion" with Frank Zappa playing in the back ground.
I just checked with a machinist square. The enclosure face is "flat" with a hair-thick deviation along its length. I actually hold my sanding block upside down when I use it on enclosures, and I keep the enclosure within the sanding block surface boundary, to try to prevent edge rounding. Probably not as good as using a large sheet of sandpaper and a flat table, for example, but not too bad.
I'll try Zappa sanding after my next attempt. :icon_wink:
QuoteI'll try Zappa sanding after my next attempt. :icon_wink:
Try to think good thoughts.
yes it has to be flat....
the enclosures we use look flat, but they aren't.
they have high and low spots, i use a coarse grit 180 to get flat....
then once etched i use a finer grit like 600 to remove the toner/dead metal....
however, recently i have taken to using wire wool straight after etching to really get that dead metal out of the etched areas only..
then sand with finer grit 600...to get off toner...(.i dont go mad though as it will get another sanding.)
then i paint the surface with matt black, let dry....
then final sand with the same piece of worn 600....
drill n build. 8)
an A4 sized lump of plate glass, nice and thick [5 or 6 mm - front window from a microwave oven door ?], a spray of water on the surface, slap down your wet-or-dry, and sand, keeping the paper wet. the glass should be flat enough, the water should hold the paper enough. don't drop the pane of glass.
I guess the next question after getting a flat enclosure is how flat's your iron or heat pad, does it warp bulge when heated up?
Toner still the same branded one from when you were having success? Maybe that's already been stated.
dave
Quote from: KarenColumbo on March 08, 2021, 02:14:46 PM
Tomorrow I'll try this: https://www.instructables.com/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/ (https://www.instructables.com/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/)
I do a different cold tone tranfer. I print the layout on glossy/photo paper (never got it to work with magazine paper), then using a sharp tip (like from a small flat screwdriver) I scratch the back of the paper, so the acethone can easily soak the paper. For acethone, I just use nail polish remover. I clean the board with a steel wool, water and a paper towel with just a bit of alcohol/acethone, place the layout on the board and drop some acethone on the back of the paper, from the middle to the boarders, being careful to not let acethone go between the paper and the board (the very opposite of this other method). Using my fingers, I spread the acethone all around the paper and apply pressure at the same time. Let it dry, apply acethone/pressure again, let it dry, dip in water, remove the paper. Works good for boards, not so good for enclosures, and for unknown reasons it seems to works better on a "old printed" (like from 4-5 days ago) layout than a fresh printed one.
After failing to iron transfer the toner to a enclosure, I gave this other method a go. Enclosure was not sanded, I just did the usual steel wool + water + acethone/alcool cleaning. Used a fresh printed layout on glossy paper. Since nail polish removers aren't 90%+ pure acethone, I just used it as is, without mixing it with alcohol. Dropped a few on the enclosure's surface, put the paper, applied pressure, waited a bit, etched. This is the result I got, on the very first attempt:
(https://i.postimg.cc/G89ZgwnP/phase.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G89ZgwnP)
You can see lots of small spots that weren't supposed to be etched, but I blame the poor quality toner I used. I got similar results on the last enclosures I etched using this same toner and iron transfer.
Sorry, lost my way inside the recycling dumpster lol. Did another iron-on, worked out fine BUT I forgot to invert it in photoshop. So I just sprayed it with clear paint and called it a day. Etching without etching ... real time saver.
Quote from: Marcos - Munky on March 12, 2021, 10:17:47 AM
Quote from: KarenColumbo on March 08, 2021, 02:14:46 PM
Tomorrow I'll try this: https://www.instructables.com/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/ (https://www.instructables.com/Heatless-cold-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/)
I do a different cold tone tranfer. I print the layout on glossy/photo paper (never got it to work with magazine paper), then using a sharp tip (like from a small flat screwdriver) I scratch the back of the paper, so the acethone can easily soak the paper. For acethone, I just use nail polish remover. I clean the board with a steel wool, water and a paper towel with just a bit of alcohol/acethone, place the layout on the board and drop some acethone on the back of the paper, from the middle to the boarders, being careful to not let acethone go between the paper and the board (the very opposite of this other method). Using my fingers, I spread the acethone all around the paper and apply pressure at the same time. Let it dry, apply acethone/pressure again, let it dry, dip in water, remove the paper. Works good for boards, not so good for enclosures, and for unknown reasons it seems to works better on a "old printed" (like from 4-5 days ago) layout than a fresh printed one.
After failing to iron transfer the toner to a enclosure, I gave this other method a go. Enclosure was not sanded, I just did the usual steel wool + water + acethone/alcool cleaning. Used a fresh printed layout on glossy paper. Since nail polish removers aren't 90%+ pure acethone, I just used it as is, without mixing it with alcohol. Dropped a few on the enclosure's surface, put the paper, applied pressure, waited a bit, etched. This is the result I got, on the very first attempt:
(https://i.postimg.cc/G89ZgwnP/phase.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G89ZgwnP)
You can see lots of small spots that weren't supposed to be etched, but I blame the poor quality toner I used. I got similar results on the last enclosures I etched using this same toner and iron transfer.
Hey! Not too shabby. I will try this method, too. Thx for sharing!
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 10, 2021, 05:59:44 AM
yes it has to be flat....
the enclosures we use look flat, but they aren't.
they have high and low spots, i use a coarse grit 180 to get flat....
then once etched i use a finer grit like 600 to remove the toner/dead metal....
however, recently i have taken to using wire wool straight after etching to really get that dead metal out of the etched areas only..
then sand with finer grit 600...to get off toner...(.i dont go mad though as it will get another sanding.)
then i paint the surface with matt black, let dry....
then final sand with the same piece of worn 600....
drill n build. 8)
Sounds like a LOT of work!
it is, but the results are worth it.
its ALL in the prep... 8)
Quote from: deadastronaut on March 14, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
it is, but the results are worth it.
its ALL in the prep... 8)
True of ANY type of finishing, it all comes down to, back to the prep.
dave