Hello Everybody,
I have built a Lion DS-1. I chose the vintage build. I get sound when engaged. Volume and tone work. The distortion knob does nothing. It sounds like a low "tone turned down" fuzz. Pictures attached.
any help?
(https://i.postimg.cc/HjV6sH4T/IMG-2680.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HjV6sH4T)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mPNw6rRy/IMG-2681.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPNw6rRy)
(https://i.postimg.cc/06kfgqyR/IMG-2682.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06kfgqyR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QFrmb7LM/IMG-2683.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFrmb7LM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9r91ZpnS/IMG-2684.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9r91ZpnS)
Check continuity between DIST pot lug 3 -> R10(47k) -> C7 (1μF) -> GND
If something there is "open", IC1A acts as a buffer (unity gain) so the only distortion comes from Q2 preceding stage..
i suggest you lookt at this link:debugging guide (https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=29816.0)
cheers, Iain
Thank you, I am testing now. Trying to figure it out...
Hello,
thanks for helping. When we are talking Left and Right, I think we are talking about from looking at the top.
My results are odd (Left and Right) I am not the best with a DMM... here are my results. :)
1.) DMM on cont. red prob on dist lug 3, black probe on R10 right leg. = no beep on right leg ( - ), but beep on left ( + ) (looking from top down)
2.) DMM on resistance. black prob on dist lug 3, red on R3 = I get no reading.
3.) DMM on cont. black prob on dist lug 3, reg prob C7 = no beep on either leg.
4.) DMM on cont. Red prob on C7, black on ground. = beep on ( - ) right leg. no beep from left leg (+)
I might confused you about Left-Right, so here it is:
(https://i.imgur.com/dGjiH64.png)
I think I am more confused now.
so for C7, are you saying left leg as in (+) or (-)
and for 1-3. the red prob should be on lug 3 of dist pot?
I think this is right... photo attached...
sorry if I am more confused now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yDQYLd8r/ds1.png) (https://postimg.cc/yDQYLd8r)
Forget about DMM probe polarity, either for continuity test or resistance measurement..
(you don't read your P.M.s thoroughly..) :icon_mrgreen:
C7 Left leg should be the one marked (-)
As for R10, place one probe to pot lug 3 and the other probe to one of R10 legs..
You have two options:
1. Beep -> OK
2. No beep -> turn to resistance measurement mode -> 47k -> OK (no need for other leg beeping now..)
Ok..
1.) LUG 3 > R10 = a beep on the left side. "Picture attached". If that is not correct. I can do this:
No beep -> turn to resistance measurement mode -> 47k -> OK (no need for other leg beeping now..)
2.) Lug 3 > C7 Right (+) = No Beep
3.) C7 Left (-) > Ground = Beep
Sorry if any confusion. I am a novice. I just thought this is fun, until one has issues.. thank you again everybody for helping.
(https://i.postimg.cc/K4x4f47x/R10.png) (https://postimg.cc/K4x4f47x)
OK.. :icon_wink:
Now measure resistance between pot lug 3 and C7 right (+)..
at 200k I get 4.5
So, NFB gain branch is OK..
Check for pot lug2 & lug1 connections..
So now check Lug 1 and 2: resistance C7 right (+)..
the connections of lug 1 and 2 solider looks good.
Sorry but I tend to forget your initial issue.. :icon_wink:
So, let's get it from the beginning:
Check all pot connections to respective items..
e.g Lug 1 to IC1A pin 6, C5, C6 & R12..
Lug 2 (wiper) to C5 & R9
R9 to IC1A pin 3..
I am a little confused again. Are you asking to get continuity (beep)? or a measurement?
Lug 1 > IC1A pin 6, C5, C6 & R12
Lug 2 > C5 & R9
R9 to IC1A pin 3.. (?)
Quote from: antonis on February 24, 2021, 05:17:33 AM
Sorry but I tend to forget your initial issue.. :icon_wink:
So, let's get it from the beginning:
Check all pot connections to respective items..
e.g Lug 1 to IC1A pin 6, C5, C6 & R12..
Lug 2 (wiper) to C5 & R9
R9 to IC1A pin 3..
Check for proper connection and value of everyone item and wiring inside red frame..
(https://i.imgur.com/K5AJSkV.png)
Finally replying... thanks again for the help..
on my MultiMeter using 200k Ohm.
R9 = 100.1
R10 = 4.8
C5 = 40.8
C6= 54.0
C7 = 143.5 (side does say 1uf)
100kB = 90.8
IC = 4.0-2.0
Im not sure if the caps are the correct measurement. And I am not sure about the IC. I used red on the 1st hot pin, and took each pin. Not sure if I collected the right measurements..
thanks for helping the noobs. These projects are really fun, thanks to people in these forums :)
have you considered an Audio Probe?
(https://i.postimg.cc/NyDWbMhr/audio-probe.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyDWbMhr)
it goes to your amp and you can test for guitar singal at several parts of the circuit!
cheers
Yes, I have a probe. The problem is am not sure what to test. The circuit works. Its is just a low fizzle. Like a bad cap or something. Or Bad IC. not sure...
Quote from: broomhandle on April 20, 2021, 05:18:06 PM
Yes, I have a probe. The problem is am not sure what to test. The circuit works. Its is just a low fizzle. Like a bad cap or something. Or Bad IC. not sure...
left to right, listen how it sounds and report back about where it sounds good or where it sounds real bad.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dDK91b5Z/DS-1-test-sequence.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDK91b5Z)
cheers
Sorry, yes. Correct. The effect works. and the knobs does nothing. for the sound. Its more like a fuzz pedal.
Quote from: iainpunk on April 20, 2021, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: broomhandle on April 20, 2021, 05:18:06 PM
Yes, I have a probe. The problem is am not sure what to test. The circuit works. Its is just a low fizzle. Like a bad cap or something. Or Bad IC. not sure...
left to right, listen how it sounds and report back about where it sounds good or where it sounds real bad.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dDK91b5Z/DS-1-test-sequence.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDK91b5Z)
cheers
would I be looking to see if the dist knob works?
Quote from: broomhandle on April 20, 2021, 09:15:27 PM
Quote from: iainpunk on April 20, 2021, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: broomhandle on April 20, 2021, 05:18:06 PM
Yes, I have a probe. The problem is am not sure what to test. The circuit works. Its is just a low fizzle. Like a bad cap or something. Or Bad IC. not sure...
left to right, listen how it sounds and report back about where it sounds good or where it sounds real bad.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dDK91b5Z/DS-1-test-sequence.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDK91b5Z)
cheers
would I be looking to see if the dist knob works?
mainly to follow the process of the sound being changed over and over to achieve the output signal. if there is something wrong somewhere, you can hear it through the probe, and that way isolate the problem, so it can be fixed without trial and error.
cheers
OK, so not sure if I did this correct. I followed the path, and checked each point. Amp into the probe (grounded). Guitar into the pedal. the pedal engaged. I got no sound out of each point. But a weird fuzz on D4 and D5 on the left side.
hope that was done correct.
Quote from: broomhandle on April 21, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
I got no sound out of each point. But a weird fuzz on D4 and D5 on the left side.
Try to disconnect from VA (lift up) diode selector switch middle lug..
Quote from: antonis on April 22, 2021, 05:47:26 AM
Quote from: broomhandle on April 21, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
I got no sound out of each point. But a weird fuzz on D4 and D5 on the left side.
Try to disconnect from VA (lift up) diode selector switch middle lug..
could you rephrase that? I am not sure I understand.
multimeter on diode? and check the middle lug of the clip selector switch?
(https://i.imgur.com/aIb1wNS.jpg)
Sorry, but I still do not understand. ( I think you are saying cut out lug 2 on switch? I am not sure)
I am still a novice. I work in IT and can tear down and rebuild engines. But I am still learning with circuits.
I am not sure what you are asking me to do. Sorry I am having trouble with this one. I am really at a loss..
Quote from: broomhandle on April 21, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
OK, so not sure if I did this correct. I followed the path, and checked each point. Amp into the probe (grounded). Guitar into the pedal. the pedal engaged. I got no sound out of each point. But a weird fuzz on D4 and D5 on the left side.
hope that was done correct.
either its done incorrectly or there is no signal at all arriving at the circuit's input.
with an audio probe, you clip the black wire on to the board ground and the red wire goes to the measure points
maybe audio probe the switch to see if signal even gets through it allright, then the wire between the switch and the board,
i added orange circles to test for signal as well:
(https://i.postimg.cc/f38hMqhL/DS-1-test-sequence.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f38hMqhL)
we also need your DC voltages to be able to determine other faults.
the DC points of all transistor and chip pins.
cheers
Quote from: broomhandle on April 25, 2021, 11:54:03 AM
Sorry, but I still do not understand. ( I think you are saying cut out lug 2 on switch? I am not sure)
[/quote
Leave diode pair(s) OPEN/ON AIR/NOT AC GROUNDED..
WE need to "isolate" diodes clippling configuration to find out their possible influence on (non-working) Gain pot..
P.S.
Forget it..
Just connected switch lug 2 to GND (on any convenient circuit point) instead of VA..
I tried this. I got a ground wire from ground to 2nd lug switch. = no sound nothing.
Quote from: antonis on April 25, 2021, 12:55:17 PM
Quote from: broomhandle on April 25, 2021, 11:54:03 AM
Sorry, but I still do not understand. ( I think you are saying cut out lug 2 on switch? I am not sure)
[/quote
Leave diode pair(s) OPEN/ON AIR/NOT AC GROUNDED..
WE need to "isolate" diodes clippling configuration to find out their possible influence on (non-working) Gain pot..
P.S.
Forget it..
Just connected switch lug 2 to GND (on any convenient circuit point) instead of VA..
I will do this and report back. The orange spots are the measure points for the switch?
Quote from: iainpunk on April 25, 2021, 12:32:59 PM
Quote from: broomhandle on April 21, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
OK, so not sure if I did this correct. I followed the path, and checked each point. Amp into the probe (grounded). Guitar into the pedal. the pedal engaged. I got no sound out of each point. But a weird fuzz on D4 and D5 on the left side.
hope that was done correct.
either its done incorrectly or there is no signal at all arriving at the circuit's input.
with an audio probe, you clip the black wire on to the board ground and the red wire goes to the measure points
maybe audio probe the switch to see if signal even gets through it allright, then the wire between the switch and the board,
i added orange circles to test for signal as well:
(https://i.postimg.cc/f38hMqhL/DS-1-test-sequence.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f38hMqhL)
we also need your DC voltages to be able to determine other faults.
the DC points of all transistor and chip pins.
cheers
with the probe, effect engaged. I get a pass thru (no effect) on: RPD, R1, C1 and R2. Effect on the bottom lug on the switch.
..and DC volts. I can not get a reading on RPD and R1. But I get 4.33 on C1 and R2.
Quote from: iainpunk on April 25, 2021, 12:32:59 PM
Quote from: broomhandle on April 21, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
OK, so not sure if I did this correct. I followed the path, and checked each point. Amp into the probe (grounded). Guitar into the pedal. the pedal engaged. I got no sound out of each point. But a weird fuzz on D4 and D5 on the left side.
hope that was done correct.
either its done incorrectly or there is no signal at all arriving at the circuit's input.
with an audio probe, you clip the black wire on to the board ground and the red wire goes to the measure points
maybe audio probe the switch to see if signal even gets through it allright, then the wire between the switch and the board,
i added orange circles to test for signal as well:
(https://i.postimg.cc/f38hMqhL/DS-1-test-sequence.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f38hMqhL)
we also need your DC voltages to be able to determine other faults.
the DC points of all transistor and chip pins.
cheers
FIRTS i would like you to measure the DC points
with the DC points i mean all pins of the chip and transistors, resistors and caps don't need a DC bias to work the way they should.
the orange test points are for confirmation that there is actually signal arriving at the Board. you'd be amazed how many people have trouble related to the off-board wiring, resulting in bad/no signal reaching/exiting the board. in your case, that's not the problem, so we look further through the circuit. i'd like you to report back with where the sound becomes bad/nonexistent/muffled in a bad way, its probably that point in the circuit where there is a fault
the next test point for the audio probe are the first transistor's 3 pins. ONE of those should be silent, and two of those should have clean guitar signal.
then we test the next transistor, one pin should be pure clean, one should have clean-ish guitar signal, and one should have way louder (slightly) distorted guitar signal.
after that we go to the op amp, pins 2 should have the aforementioned slightly distorted guitar signal, pin 3 should be dependent on DIST control setting, when its all the way down the signal should be the same as pin 2, but the higher you turn it the quieter and more distorted it should become.
pin 6 is also DIST setting sensitive, i should get more distorted and slightly louder when turned up.
the next point to test is the clipping diodes, test for sound at the red circle i posted earlier.
then the tone stack, all 3 red circles should have a ''filtered'' tone, one muffled, one bright and one dependent on the tone knob.
then you test the volume control lugs, one should be silent, one should have high volume and one should be setting dependent.
with the volume control fully loud, the output transistor: 2 pins should have distorted sound and one pin should be silent.
then R19 and R20, R19 should have sound on both sides and R20 only on one side.
if that all works, then you look at the output off board wiring.
i hope this ''guide'' helps you finding the problems
cheers, Iain