DIYstompboxes.com

DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: Big Monk on March 04, 2021, 07:09:41 PM

Title: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 04, 2021, 07:09:41 PM
I’ve been contemplating a more substantial breadboard setup for about a month now. I knew I wanted it to exist inside an enclosure so I could prototype/breadboard under normal noise conditions and observe the grounding and wire placement practices of a completed pedal.

Here is “The Prototyper”:


(https://i.postimg.cc/Lg3HBY5j/4-D5496-D7-00-A2-44-E0-B728-6-A82-B4-A00-EA5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lg3HBY5j)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0Mm5jHqW/6-A26-A3-A4-36-E1-4-FEA-9-D30-DD8-DB9-DA72-BC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0Mm5jHqW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0Kskwdk8/9-E0-B8048-D8-EC-404-B-A8-F8-6707-B3163-DC1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0Kskwdk8)

I used the DD enclosure so I could have 8 pots on the face. I figured this would allow for normal controls, controls for external bias, and a few other external controls t9 play with component values. I gave myself test ports for checking bias externally.

The power section has a dc jack with jack mounted charge pump circuit. I have a switch for selecting between +/- 9v nominal supply and a test port there to check the polarity of the voltage.

Just need to wire a few things to make it compatible with the breadboard (switches, etc.)
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: ElectricDruid on March 04, 2021, 08:36:56 PM
I've sometimes wondered about something like this, but I never did it because I figured it'd never have the right pot value in it, or it'd have a linear when I needed a log or whatever. But maybe it makes sense, I dunno. I can certainly see advantages too.

Can we have a report on how you've found it and how you use it in six months time, please? ;) I'd love to know!
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 04, 2021, 08:44:08 PM
I've sometimes wondered about something like this, but I never did it because I figured it'd never have the right pot value in it, or it'd have a linear when I needed a log or whatever. But maybe it makes sense, I dunno. I can certainly see advantages too.

Can we have a report on how you've found it and how you use it in six months time, please? ;) I'd love to know!

Well, I just recieved a Tayda order with 10 of every resistor from 82 ohm to 2.2M ohm, 8 of every capacitor from 10pf to 100uf, and a smattering of pots to cover about 30 circuits in my stash.


(https://i.postimg.cc/N5twtkf4/863-E9971-229-C-491-A-90-B8-E6-F102-FAC033.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5twtkf4)

I have a whole gang of chips, transistors and diodes so I can build and tweak all the circuits I set out to.

BTW, the Tayda order was only about $50 for all the components. So, not a huge dent in the wallet to have any component value you need at your disposal. Granted, I went with 1/8 watt resistors because they were cheaper and there are no circuits I’m interested in that will dissipate enough power across these to be a problem.

I’m thinking I’ll post up some threads as I breadboard a circuits. Tweaks, thoughts, video, etc. 
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: davent on March 04, 2021, 11:13:23 PM
How well do the leads of the resistors plug into the breadboard? I couldn't use their 1/4w with my boards as the leads were too flimsy.
dave
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: kaycee on March 05, 2021, 03:09:16 AM
I have a flat board with a breadboard attached and a batten with in/out jacks, power and bypass mounted on it. There is 'table' space next to the BB to lay a schematic, meter or parts to swap out on. For pots, I have a range of trim pots mounted on vero with sockets for flying leads. I realise that the trims only give me linear taper, but most of the time, I just want to see if something works or not. The whole board, loaded, slides under my work bench on top of my parts drawers so it can get put away and out as the 'honey do' orders come in :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 05, 2021, 07:07:46 AM
How well do the leads of the resistors plug into the breadboard? I couldn't use their 1/4w with my boards as the leads were too flimsy.
dave

Even the skinnier 1/8w leads plug in fine. I usually trim them short anyway.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Radical CJ on March 05, 2021, 08:09:52 AM
I've sometimes wondered about something like this, but I never did it because I figured it'd never have the right pot value in it, or it'd have a linear when I needed a log or whatever.

I've built a few things like this with a range of pot values soldered to bananna pins, but always find i need more pots of some value or another and still end up with alligator clips all over the place. Great for fuzzes/distortions, but lately I've found the ideas take up more and more bread boards. More pots and switches. More bananna pins...
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 05, 2021, 10:24:27 AM
I've sometimes wondered about something like this, but I never did it because I figured it'd never have the right pot value in it, or it'd have a linear when I needed a log or whatever.

I've built a few things like this with a range of pot values soldered to bananna pins, but always find i need more pots of some value or another and still end up with alligator clips all over the place. Great for fuzzes/distortions, but lately I've found the ideas take up more and more bread boards. More pots and switches. More bananna pins...

I agree here. One thing I will say is that I went through schematics for about 20 or so pedals, mostly vintage dirt, a few overdrives, etc. and made a list of the required pot values. Then I made a list of some typical “flying lead” values and ordered those as well. The. I grabbed the whole range in trim pots on top.

I only plan on us No this to live with a pedal for a while, hammer out what I like/don’t like/find useful, then transfer the final form to a finished pedal.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Radical CJ on March 05, 2021, 04:58:52 PM
You have managed to fit a lot of pots on there, so for fuzzes and distortions you'll be able to use pots instead of some of the key fixed resistors and try the circuit out with multiple guitars/amps to see what fixed value will work best. Plus having the the prototype circuit in a tidy pedal enclosure means its easy to take around to other musicians' places to test it in a wider range of set ups.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 05, 2021, 07:56:41 PM
You have managed to fit a lot of pots on there, so for fuzzes and distortions you'll be able to use pots instead of some of the key fixed resistors and try the circuit out with multiple guitars/amps to see what fixed value will work best. Plus having the the prototype circuit in a tidy pedal enclosure means its easy to take around to other musicians' places to test it in a wider range of set ups.

This is kind of what I figured. Using short leads on components means things should stay in place and noise floor should be on par with a finished pedal because of the enclosure.

I think it will work out well. One of the critiques I have had with my own finished pedals is that I never give myself enough time to live with the pedal before boxing it up. I’m always wanting to test something else out which leads to flying leads and more holes and what have you.

This is a breadboard environment with a stompbox feel. I can change things at will and really hammer down on what’s what and then make an order and box it up.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: mozz on March 05, 2021, 09:45:36 PM
You can get resistors by the hundred for very cheap from Mouser and others. Just built a few blue boxes and they use 11 resistors of 56k each. 1For some reason, i buy components from recognizedsurplus dealers instead of Tayda, especially IC and transistors. I'd rather old stock so i know it's not bootleg or fake.

 I do like that idea though. I usually just have a assortment of pots with 3 wires about 1ft long soldered on.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: idy on March 05, 2021, 11:33:57 PM
Having the board upside down might jiggle things loose... I would think maybe use the box with the cover as a top and  have the pots on the side(s) of the box...or cut the lid in half and make half a shelf with pots and the other half that you open to fiddle around.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 05, 2021, 11:41:03 PM
Having the board upside down might jiggle things loose... I would think maybe use the box with the cover as a top and  have the pots on the side(s) of the box...or cut the lid in half and make half a shelf with pots and the other half that you open to fiddle around.

Components stay nice and tight with short leads so they are snug to the board. Plus, extra care will be taken given the setup. Won’t be stomping on the thing.

I did a test fit of the skinny leads on the 1/8w resistors (the limiting element) and they were solid as a rock.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: iainpunk on March 06, 2021, 11:57:20 AM
that's a cool setup, i would have placed the knobs on the sides of the case tho, instead of on the top, but it looks great!
you can probably gig with that!! i know i would, well, i have gigged with worse breadboard setups, haha

cheers
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Phend on March 06, 2021, 12:04:47 PM
Nice setup...
Dots of sillycon clear sealant will keep some components in place on that bread board. A whole tube will go a very very long way. At the same time touch up around the house.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: deadastronaut on March 06, 2021, 12:37:49 PM
handy for breading hi gainers......no squuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllll......

 8)
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: ElectricDruid on March 06, 2021, 03:04:01 PM
Nice setup...
Dots of sillycon clear sealant will keep some components in place on that bread board. A whole tube will go a very very long way. At the same time touch up around the house.

Just don't use the sealant that contains acetic acid (smells like a UK chip shop!) 'cos the fumes eat any copper they come into contact with!

(We had a problem with this years ago at a place I once worked - caused a lot of expensive customer returns. Some units had been sealed with the wrong sealant, it ate the PCB tracks and we finished up doing warranty replacements of whole PCBs.)
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 09, 2021, 07:31:24 AM
Looks like I may finalize a few Tonebender MKII tweaks and then I’m tackling the Ampeg Scrambler.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: iainpunk on March 09, 2021, 09:03:29 AM
Looks like I may finalize a few Tonebender MKII tweaks and then I’m tackling the Ampeg Scrambler.
ooh, nice one, its not to hard to get working, and easy to mod the heck out of it. i'd add an output buffer and volume control to the end, just so you can have it at lower volumes, instead of full all the time.

cheers, Iain
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 14, 2021, 01:57:17 PM
Was able to get most of the static stuff wired up today. Power rails and ground rails are tied together, jacks and switch are wired, including the shielded cables and tabbed washer providing chassis connection on the input, and charge pump is operational. I have the test jack wired to the center of the switch and the switch controls whether +/- 9v is provided to the power rail.


(https://i.postimg.cc/cKGwqMmz/31278-DA3-3-D5-D-4-CD1-8405-9462-C8349-F98.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKGwqMmz)
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: r080 on March 15, 2021, 09:57:09 AM
Do you mind sharing info on the jack mounted charge pump?
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 15, 2021, 10:59:46 AM
Do you mind sharing info on the jack mounted charge pump?

I got it from Mojotone:

https://www.mojotone.com/Pedals-Parts/Pedal-Parts_x/Mojotone-Micro-9V-Charge-Pump-Dual-Rail-Power-Supply_2

Nothing shocking here but the size is a function of SMD components. I drew up a mini-board of my own but was limited by size of components to about 12 mm x 12 mm. Moving forward i'll shrink it some more to have them on hand for PNP builds.

In a 125B size enclosure, there should be room for the one I drew up right between the pots under the DC jack.

If it is to be jack mounted, I dont think anything but SMD parts will suffice.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: iainpunk on March 15, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
[OFF TOPIC]

Quote
Here is “The Prototyper”:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Lg3HBY5j/4-D5496-D7-00-A2-44-E0-B728-6-A82-B4-A00-EA5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lg3HBY5j)

that guitar in the back ground, it looks kinda funky, is that a round hole with a square peg pickup in it?
is there a story about that? do you have more pictures?
[/OFF TOPIC]

are those power jump-overs really necessary? the red and blue lines suggest that its one big long rail.

cheers, Iain
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 15, 2021, 03:32:48 PM
[OFF TOPIC]

Quote
Here is “The Prototyper”:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Lg3HBY5j/4-D5496-D7-00-A2-44-E0-B728-6-A82-B4-A00-EA5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lg3HBY5j)

that guitar in the back ground, it looks kinda funky, is that a round hole with a square peg pickup in it?
is there a story about that? do you have more pictures?
[/OFF TOPIC]

are those power jump-overs really necessary? the red and blue lines suggest that its one big long rail.

cheers, Iain

That's my Son's 3/4 scale guitar. It originally had a speaker and small amplifier built in but we removed it and put a humbucker in there.

The jump overs connect the top and bottom power/ground strips. Power enters at the beginning of the "horseshoe" shaped rail and I connect power and ground anywhere along the rail. The red and blue lines are a single rail on ONE of the strips. Connecting them gives me the "horseshoe".
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: davent on March 15, 2021, 05:21:22 PM
.


(https://i.postimg.cc/cKGwqMmz/31278-DA3-3-D5-D-4-CD1-8405-9462-C8349-F98.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKGwqMmz)


[OFF TOPIC]

Quote

...

The jump overs connect the top and bottom power/ground strips. Power enters at the beginning of the "horseshoe" shaped rail and I connect power and ground anywhere along the rail. The red and blue lines are a single rail on ONE of the strips. Connecting them gives me the "horseshoe".

I'm sure Iain's referring to the small jumpers all along the power rails. I've never had a board that requires any jumpers along the outside
 power strips, two strips continuous the length of the board. Always had to jumper across the board.
dave
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: iainpunk on March 15, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
.


(https://i.postimg.cc/cKGwqMmz/31278-DA3-3-D5-D-4-CD1-8405-9462-C8349-F98.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKGwqMmz)


[OFF TOPIC]

Quote

...

The jump overs connect the top and bottom power/ground strips. Power enters at the beginning of the "horseshoe" shaped rail and I connect power and ground anywhere along the rail. The red and blue lines are a single rail on ONE of the strips. Connecting them gives me the "horseshoe".

I'm sure Iain's referring to the small jumpers all along the power rails. I've never had a board that requires any jumpers along the outside
 power strips, two strips continuous the length of the board. Always had to jumper across the board.
dave
yes exactly.

cheers
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 15, 2021, 07:19:18 PM
.


(https://i.postimg.cc/cKGwqMmz/31278-DA3-3-D5-D-4-CD1-8405-9462-C8349-F98.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKGwqMmz)


[OFF TOPIC]

Quote

...

The jump overs connect the top and bottom power/ground strips. Power enters at the beginning of the "horseshoe" shaped rail and I connect power and ground anywhere along the rail. The red and blue lines are a single rail on ONE of the strips. Connecting them gives me the "horseshoe".

I'm sure Iain's referring to the small jumpers all along the power rails. I've never had a board that requires any jumpers along the outside
 power strips, two strips continuous the length of the board. Always had to jumper across the board.
dave
yes exactly.

cheers

Very good to know! I always thought they had to be jumped. You learn so eth No new every day!
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: bluebunny on March 16, 2021, 05:31:46 AM
The continuity of the busbars tends to match the continuity of the painted red and blue lines.  This one would need jumpering in the middle if you wanted the busses to extend the whole width of the board:

(https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/learn_tutorials/4/7/12615-02_Full_Size_Breadboard_Split_Power_Rails.jpg)
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 16, 2021, 07:58:18 AM
Do you mind sharing info on the jack mounted charge pump?

I got it from Mojotone:

https://www.mojotone.com/Pedals-Parts/Pedal-Parts_x/Mojotone-Micro-9V-Charge-Pump-Dual-Rail-Power-Supply_2

Nothing shocking here but the size is a function of SMD components. I drew up a mini-board of my own but was limited by size of components to about 12 mm x 12 mm. Moving forward i'll shrink it some more to have them on hand for PNP builds.

In a 125B size enclosure, there should be room for the one I drew up right between the pots under the DC jack.

If it is to be jack mounted, I dont think anything but SMD parts will suffice.

PSA for Today: These micro, jack mounted boards are very sensitive. I burned mine up last night trying to re-attach power leads that came. As convenient as they are, you may be better served to go with something like the Tonepad Bipolar circuit, which is 1" by 1" (so still small).

I ordered a MAX1044 so I can just incorporate it into the far side of my breadboard. After further review, I was uncomfortable with switching the power anyway. Even with diode protection it was a silly idea.
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: davent on March 16, 2021, 12:15:07 PM
Check out Madbean's RoadRage board, very flexible and has a prototyping rig setup all mapped out in the pdf.

https://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/_folders/BreadBuddies/pdf/RoadRage2019.pdf
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 16, 2021, 12:52:45 PM
Check out Madbean's RoadRage board, very flexible and has a prototyping rig setup all mapped out in the pdf.

https://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/_folders/BreadBuddies/pdf/RoadRage2019.pdf

That's pretty slick!
Title: Re: Presenting...”The Prototyper”
Post by: Big Monk on March 16, 2021, 02:34:25 PM
Ok!

Power supply filtering sorted. I ended up using 820 ohm/100uf/0.047 uf.

Grounding sorted.

Power rail jumpers removed (redundant line to line ones). Thanks for the extra set of eyes on that!

So I wired up a Fuzz Face. A bit from here and there. Started as an Axis Face with Amperex Silicon A115s and then i switched over to GE Germanium 2N169s. I have a 100pf across the B-C junctions of Q1 and Q2. I have a 0.033 uf across the 1k at the top of the voltage divider above Q2. I used a 25kB pot to establish that Q2c needed 3.9k on the lower leg to hit 4.5 vDC. Q1c is biased up to the nominal 0.5 vDC.

Added a Easy Face Pre-Gain control. Used a 1kC Fuzz control. Input cap is 0.22 uf and Volume control is 100kA.

Sounds glorious. Need to get a clip together.