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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: snow123 on November 09, 2021, 06:50:33 PM

Title: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 09, 2021, 06:50:33 PM
hi, I have a boss ds-1 that I want to mod, and I want to make it behave more like a fuzz, is that possible? if so, how would I go about doing it?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 09, 2021, 06:58:46 PM
also, what does D8 do?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: Mark Hammer on November 09, 2021, 07:02:23 PM
Stick a booster of some kind before it.  I know it's not the ONLY thing that differentiates distortions and fuzzes, but one of the key elements of a fuzz is that the signal remains above the clipping threshold - hence it clips for a longer period - for a while.  So, providing a hotter input signal, in tandem with whatever gain the pedal provides, will accomplish that.  Now, whether the resulting tone is what you were aiming for is a whole other matter.

D8 is part of the switching circuit.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 09, 2021, 07:32:03 PM
Quote from: Mark Hammer on November 09, 2021, 07:02:23 PM
Stick a booster of some kind before it.  I know it's not the ONLY thing that differentiates distortions and fuzzes, but one of the key elements of a fuzz is that the signal remains above the clipping threshold - hence it clips for a longer period - for a while.  So, providing a hotter input signal, in tandem with whatever gain the pedal provides, will accomplish that.  Now, whether the resulting tone is what you were aiming for is a whole other matter.

D8 is part of the switching circuit.
ok, but what would i do to the circuit itself behave more like a fuzz?
and considering what you said about putting a booster in front of the pedal, could i do something with the transistor booster stage to get that effect?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: idy on November 09, 2021, 08:08:58 PM
So here's an idea. See that 470k resistor in the feedback loop of the transistor booster stage? Put a pair of diodes in series with a cap there in parallel... make it a big muff stage. Crazy, but you asked for fuzz. Worth a try.

The muff has three parallel paths in the place.
470k R
100n-1uf cap in series with pair of diodes
470pf C

Look at a schematic. These values changed year to year. The bigger cap in series with the diodes allows bass to clip more.

But this is super easy to try. No mod to existing, just parallel components tack-soldered to that 470k.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 09, 2021, 08:55:58 PM
update: i just replaced the 2 1n4148s with 1 1n60p and 1 green band 1n34a, and it gets FUZZY.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 09, 2021, 08:56:57 PM
Quote from: idy on November 09, 2021, 08:08:58 PM
So here's an idea. See that 470k resistor in the feedback loop of the transistor booster stage? Put a pair of diodes in series with a cap there in parallel... make it a big muff stage. Crazy, but you asked for fuzz. Worth a try.

The muff has three parallel paths in the place.
470k R
100n-1uf cap in series with pair of diodes
470pf C

Look at a schematic. These values changed year to year. The bigger cap in series with the diodes allows bass to clip more.

But this is super easy to try. No mod to existing, just parallel components tack-soldered to that 470k.
ooo thats a good idea, what diodes would you suggest using?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 09, 2021, 11:09:29 PM
im thinking leds, or 1n4148s would be good.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 10, 2021, 12:16:05 AM
Quote from: idy on November 09, 2021, 08:08:58 PM
So here's an idea. See that 470k resistor in the feedback loop of the transistor booster stage? Put a pair of diodes in series with a cap there in parallel... make it a big muff stage. Crazy, but you asked for fuzz. Worth a try.

The muff has three parallel paths in the place.
470k R
100n-1uf cap in series with pair of diodes
470pf C

Look at a schematic. These values changed year to year. The bigger cap in series with the diodes allows bass to clip more.

But this is super easy to try. No mod to existing, just parallel components tack-soldered to that 470k.

just tried it with 2 leds and 1 220nf capacitor, and it removed all of the distortion.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: Vivek on November 10, 2021, 01:59:36 AM
Increase the amount of bass entering the clipper
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: teemuk on November 10, 2021, 03:59:02 AM
I'm not sure which schematic / board revision you use as a reference but overall there's a distinct hi-pass filter introduced by the negative feedback circuit around the non-inverting opamp gain stage. The AC coupling capacitor in the "shunt" branch of the circuit (C8 in schematic I'm looking at but verify) limits low frequency gain. Try increasing it's value. e.g. from 1uF to 10 uF.

The circuit should now have more of that characteristic "fuzz" of low frequencies distorting.

I disagree on that fuzz would be an effect created by increased sustain. Distortion circuits have it a plenty and do not have "fuzzy" tone and there are also examples of clearly "fuzzy" distortion tones with very short sustain characteristics.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 10, 2021, 04:32:30 AM
Quote from: teemuk on November 10, 2021, 03:59:02 AM
I'm not sure which schematic / board revision you use as a reference but overall there's a distinct hi-pass filter introduced by the negative feedback circuit around the non-inverting opamp gain stage. The AC coupling capacitor in the "shunt" branch of the circuit (C8 in schematic I'm looking at but verify) limits low frequency gain. Try increasing it's value. e.g. from 1uF to 10 uF.

The circuit should now have more of that characteristic "fuzz" of low frequencies distorting.

I disagree on that fuzz would be an effect created by increased sustain. Distortion circuits have it a plenty and do not have "fuzzy" tone and there are also examples of clearly "fuzzy" distortion tones with very short sustain characteristics.
My ds-1 has the M5223AL, and im using the electrosmash schematic as a reference.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: Ben N on November 10, 2021, 05:47:23 AM
Quote from: Vivek on November 10, 2021, 01:59:36 AM
Increase the amount of bass entering the clipper
Exactly my thought. I would think increasing the coupling caps C1 & C3 from .047 to .1-.47 uf or so would go a long way.

That said, building a decent fuzz is not that hard. Why ruin a distortion to make a pseudo fuzz?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: Steben on November 10, 2021, 06:17:12 AM
Quote from: Ben N on November 10, 2021, 05:47:23 AM
Quote from: Vivek on November 10, 2021, 01:59:36 AM
Increase the amount of bass entering the clipper
Exactly my thought. I would think increasing the coupling caps C1 & C3 to .1 to .47 uf or so would go a long way.

That said, building a decent fuzz is not that hard. Why ruin a distortion to make a pseudo fuzz?

and make them switchable
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: Vivek on November 10, 2021, 07:30:57 AM
Quote from: Steben on November 10, 2021, 06:17:12 AM
Quote from: Ben N on November 10, 2021, 05:47:23 AM
Quote from: Vivek on November 10, 2021, 01:59:36 AM
Increase the amount of bass entering the clipper
Exactly my thought. I would think increasing the coupling caps C1 & C3 to .1 to .47 uf or so would go a long way.

That said, building a decent fuzz is not that hard. Why ruin a distortion to make a pseudo fuzz?

and make them switchable

Or like pre-dist Bass EQ knob of Wampler Ecstasy / Euphoria
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: Steben on November 10, 2021, 01:56:19 PM
Adding a BMP tone control in front will bring you from fuzz to classic Pre-high pass rock.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: iainpunk on November 10, 2021, 02:08:47 PM
i would change the values of the input booster stage into a Bazz Fuss circuit, and then rely on the rest of the circuit to take it even further.

cheers
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 10, 2021, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: Ben N on November 10, 2021, 05:47:23 AM
Quote from: Vivek on November 10, 2021, 01:59:36 AM
Increase the amount of bass entering the clipper
Exactly my thought. I would think increasing the coupling caps C1 & C3 from .047 to .1-.47 uf or so would go a long way.

That said, building a decent fuzz is not that hard. Why ruin a distortion to make a pseudo fuzz?
well i really liked the fizziness and stuff that the circuit has going on, and i thought it would work better as a fuzz that a distortion. and before you wrote that, i actually decreased c3 to 33nf, and i think that got me closer to what i want, 'cause i found the circuit to be a little too bass heavy sometimes.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 10, 2021, 03:27:14 PM
and im pretty happy with how i have the circuit at the moment. i just think it needs a little more gain.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 10, 2021, 04:27:35 PM
and im curious, what are the main components that effect volume? and that dont mess with anything else, as im really happy with how everything sounds rn.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 11, 2021, 12:56:55 AM
Quote from: snow123 on November 10, 2021, 04:27:35 PM
and im curious, what are the main components that effect volume? and that dont mess with anything else, as im really happy with how everything sounds rn.
update: yea im really happy with how the main circuit sounds, buuuuut theres a volume loss issue, and im thinking it could be an issue with the output stage as jumpering r39 and r18 hasnt fixed it.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: Vivek on November 11, 2021, 07:48:26 AM
To increase volume,

Try using LED as clipping diodes

or 2 Si in series one way and another 2 pointing the other way, in parallel

This will change clipping too, you might need more gain from the Opamp.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 11, 2021, 04:51:23 PM
Quote from: Vivek on November 11, 2021, 07:48:26 AM
To increase volume,

Try using LED as clipping diodes

or 2 Si in series one way and another 2 pointing the other way, in parallel

This will change clipping too, you might need more gain from the Opamp.
no, im not using leds. i already tried using them, and while there is a big volume boost, i dont like the way they sound at all.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 11, 2021, 06:08:13 PM
and i also REALLY like the way the 1n60p+1n34a sounds.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 11, 2021, 10:57:17 PM
update: i just tried removing the 1n34a, and its way louder now, even with different silicon diodes.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 11, 2021, 11:02:56 PM
and i tried a BAT46 diode, and that diode kinda just turns the tone control into a dark/fuzz control. it makes it so when you turn the tone up, it makes the pedal sound fuzzier instead of sounding shrill, but it doesnt respond well the turning the tone down at all.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: teemuk on November 12, 2021, 12:09:39 AM
Quote... im not using leds. i already tried using them, and while there is a big volume boost, i dont like the way they sound at all.

Well, you have these "Dist" and "Level controls. "Dist" is really a gain control so if LEDs clip at four times higher threshold than Ge diodes (and at two times higher than Si) you simply adjust the gain accordingly. LEDs need four times more gain to clip signal at the same region of the waveform and vice versa. Sounds like what you are doing at the moment is just comparing the effects of different thresholds.

Then you have the "Level" control for controlling output signal amplitude. LEDs with their higher clipping threshold output four times higher peak signal amplitudes than Ge diodes (and vice versa). If Ge diodes clipping is toi quiet turn the level control up. If LED is too loud turn the volume down.

After these adjustments you usually find out that differences of different clipping diode types are actually very subtle.

No. Unfortunately in DS-1 there is no "post gain" to amplify the clipping limited signal. There is seldom need for it anyway since the output signal should be much higher in amplitude than output signal from your pickups. If you want, you can always add a gain stage to the output, though.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 12, 2021, 12:30:57 AM
Quote from: teemuk on November 12, 2021, 12:09:39 AM
Quote... im not using leds. i already tried using them, and while there is a big volume boost, i dont like the way they sound at all.

Well, you have these "Dist" and "Level controls. "Dist" is really a gain control so if LEDs clip at four times higher threshold than Ge diodes (and at two times higher than Si) you simply adjust the gain accordingly. LEDs need four times more gain to clip signal at the same region of the waveform and vice versa. Sounds like what you are doing at the moment is just comparing the effects of different thresholds.

Then you have the "Level" control for controlling output signal amplitude. LEDs with their higher clipping threshold output four times higher peak signal amplitudes than Ge diodes (and vice versa). If Ge diodes clipping is toi quiet turn the level control up. If LED is too loud turn the volume down.

After these adjustments you usually find out that differences of different clipping diode types are actually very subtle.

No. Unfortunately in DS-1 there is no "post gain" to amplify the clipping limited signal. There is seldom need for it anyway since the output signal should be much higher in amplitude than output signal from your pickups. If you want, you can always add a gain stage to the output, though.
i dont like the way they sound with the gain cranked either.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 12, 2021, 12:32:57 AM
and ive done some more diode swapping, and it seems like it only gets loud when theres either 1 or 0 diodes for clipping.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 12, 2021, 12:34:52 AM
also, my bridge pickup is rated at about 16k ohms, and my neck pickup is at about 7k-8k ohms,  if that matters at all.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: Vivek on November 12, 2021, 04:18:21 AM
Quote from: teemuk on November 12, 2021, 12:09:39 AM

After these adjustments you usually find out that differences of different clipping diode types are actually very subtle.



Amen bro !
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: Vivek on November 12, 2021, 04:22:46 AM
Different diode sounds when normalised

https://youtu.be/xHhWFdMY4rU
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 12, 2021, 04:32:08 PM
well i guess ill just put an lpb 1 inside of the pedal, so how would i do that?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: iainpunk on November 12, 2021, 05:38:57 PM
Quote from: snow123 on November 12, 2021, 04:32:08 PM
well i guess ill just put an lpb 1 inside of the pedal, so how would i do that?
i would build an external pedal and just boost the distortion. the reasoning is that you can also boost other pedals or amps with a separate boost.

cheers
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 12, 2021, 06:46:16 PM
Quote from: iainpunk on November 12, 2021, 05:38:57 PM
Quote from: snow123 on November 12, 2021, 04:32:08 PM
well i guess ill just put an lpb 1 inside of the pedal, so how would i do that?
i would build an external pedal and just boost the distortion. the reasoning is that you can also boost other pedals or amps with a separate boost.

cheers

i dont have enough space on my pedalboard for that, and i just need it to only boost the amount of volume coming out of the ds1
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 12, 2021, 10:26:26 PM
like do i replace r18 with the lpb1 circuit or what
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 13, 2021, 01:00:42 AM
Quote from: snow123 on November 12, 2021, 10:26:26 PM
like do i replace r18 with the lpb1 circuit or what
i know that i can connect the lpb1s ground to one of the 1/4" jacks, but i dont know where to connect the circuit to +9v or how to connect the lpb1s circuit to the ds-1s circuit.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 13, 2021, 08:23:01 PM
Here's how I have the lpb1 wired up atm. I just don't know where to wire the lpb1 to the ds1 circuit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y4sVDDBx/20211113-172015-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y4sVDDBx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/H8QhxpcS/20211113-172045-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8QhxpcS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/zHmQ8LBb/20211113-172056-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHmQ8LBb)
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 14, 2021, 05:14:23 AM
If the LPB-1 is an output boost, there are few places it can go without also affecting the bypassed clean path.
Easiest might be to break the connection between Tone pot lug 2 and Level pot lug 3. Tone lug 2 feeds the LPB-1 input cap. LPB-1 output cap feeds Level lug 3. LPB-1 goes in the battery space I suppose.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 14, 2021, 07:51:49 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 14, 2021, 05:14:23 AM
If the LPB-1 is an output boost, there are few places it can go without also affecting the bypassed clean path.
Easiest might be to break the connection between Tone pot lug 2 and Level pot lug 3. Tone lug 2 feeds the LPB-1 input cap. LPB-1 output cap feeds Level lug 3. LPB-1 goes in the battery space I suppose.
i tried that and the level control (the trimpot) on the lpb1 works as an extension to the tone control (like it gets more treble when you turn it up), and the signal is now quieter, and the signal loses all of the distortion when i turn the trimpot all the way up. and yes i am using it as an output booster.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 15, 2021, 04:20:08 AM
Ah, the Tone output needs to "see" the Level pots resistance which is 100k, so adding a 100k resistor from Tone lug 2 to Level lug 1 should satisfy this.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: m4268588 on November 15, 2021, 06:44:28 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/G9bRR28P/DS-1-MOD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9bRR28P)
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 15, 2021, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 15, 2021, 04:20:08 AM
Ah, the Tone output needs to "see" the Level pots resistance which is 100k, so adding a 100k resistor from Tone lug 2 to Level lug 1 should satisfy this.
wdym by that?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 15, 2021, 08:22:12 PM
Quote from: m4268588 on November 15, 2021, 06:44:28 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/G9bRR28P/DS-1-MOD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9bRR28P)
is the red schematic thing a clean boost circuit?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 15, 2021, 09:35:39 PM
Quote from: m4268588 on November 15, 2021, 06:44:28 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/G9bRR28P/DS-1-MOD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9bRR28P)
i just did that with the lpb1 circuit and it now sounds kinda like a misbiased fuzz face lol. it sounds awesome tho, but its not doing what i want it to do.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 16, 2021, 04:39:11 AM
Quote from: snow123 on November 15, 2021, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 15, 2021, 04:20:08 AM
Ah, the Tone output needs to "see" the Level pots resistance which is 100k, so adding a 100k resistor from Tone lug 2 to Level lug 1 should satisfy this.
wdym by that?
After some thinking, you shouldn't need this extra 100k.
Ok, The Tone pot is a mixing control between 2 filters. The wiper of this pot only works as intended if there is some kind of load resistance on the wiper otherwise it won't give the right sound at the extremes of the pot rotation.
But an LPB-1 has a low input resistance anyway. Is it a stock circuit? If R4 is 100k, that should be a similar load on the Tone pot to the existing Level pot.
(http://beavisaudio.com/schematics/Images/Electro-Harmonix-LPB-1-Booster-Schematic.png)
If you wired it in between the pots how I suggested, the LPB-1 shouldn't have the input resistor R1 or the volume control VR1 (the DS-1 Level pot will do that job). You'd have to remove the wires from the pot lugs to the DS-1 PCB otherwise the LPB would be bypassed.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: m4268588 on November 16, 2021, 08:28:08 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/vDJxJRhf/DS-1-MOD2.png) (https://postimg.cc/vDJxJRhf)
Load is still heavy.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 16, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
R5 x Hfe (maybe 150k?)// 100k// 1M may not be much different from 100k pot with buffer impedance after it, but if it biases ok, doubling the 100k may be better.
...but, I've seen LPB1 with much lower bias resistor values, which is why I ask which circuit it actually is.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 16, 2021, 05:36:51 PM
Quote from: snow123 on November 15, 2021, 09:35:39 PM
Quote from: m4268588 on November 15, 2021, 06:44:28 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/G9bRR28P/DS-1-MOD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9bRR28P)
i just did that with the lpb1 circuit and it now sounds kinda like a misbiased fuzz face lol. it sounds awesome tho, but its not doing what i want it to do.
I should've also mentioned that it's boosting the volume as it should (the volume isn't cutting out at any point which is good), but both the lpb1 and ds1 volume controls are kinda wonky (like the tone control is changing a little bit while adjusting the volume and stuff), and it just sounds like a misbiased fuzz face.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 16, 2021, 05:39:44 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 16, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
R5 x Hfe (maybe 150k?)// 100k// 1M may not be much different from 100k pot with buffer impedance after it, but if it biases ok, doubling the 100k may be better.
...but, I've seen LPB1 with much lower bias resistor values, which is why I ask which circuit it actually is.
This is the lpb1 circuit I used: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2013/01/electro-harmonix-lpb1-with-trimmer.html?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:22 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 16, 2021, 04:39:11 AM
Quote from: snow123 on November 15, 2021, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 15, 2021, 04:20:08 AM
Ah, the Tone output needs to "see" the Level pots resistance which is 100k, so adding a 100k resistor from Tone lug 2 to Level lug 1 should satisfy this.
wdym by that?
You'd have to remove the wires from the pot lugs to the DS-1 PCB otherwise the LPB would be bypassed.
like remove the lpb1s level trimpot?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 18, 2021, 04:08:19 AM
What "level trimpot"? I didn't know it had one!
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 18, 2021, 02:32:04 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 18, 2021, 04:08:19 AM
What "level trimpot"? I didn't know it had one!
The lpb1 layout I used replaced the level pot with a trimpot

(https://i.postimg.cc/VSLXB7Xx/Electro-Harmonix-LPB1-with-trimmer.png) (https://postimg.cc/VSLXB7Xx)
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 18, 2021, 05:42:26 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 16, 2021, 04:39:11 AM
Quote from: snow123 on November 15, 2021, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 15, 2021, 04:20:08 AM
Ah, the Tone output needs to "see" the Level pots resistance which is 100k, so adding a 100k resistor from Tone lug 2 to Level lug 1 should satisfy this.
wdym by that?
After some thinking, you shouldn't need this extra 100k.
Ok, The Tone pot is a mixing control between 2 filters. The wiper of this pot only works as intended if there is some kind of load resistance on the wiper otherwise it won't give the right sound at the extremes of the pot rotation.
But an LPB-1 has a low input resistance anyway. Is it a stock circuit? If R4 is 100k, that should be a similar load on the Tone pot to the existing Level pot.
(http://beavisaudio.com/schematics/Images/Electro-Harmonix-LPB-1-Booster-Schematic.png)
If you wired it in between the pots how I suggested, the LPB-1 shouldn't have the input resistor R1
i removed r1 on the lpb1 and now it hits max volume when the ds1's volume is at 12 o clock, if i turn the ds1s volume up past 12 it gets quieter
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: soggybag on November 19, 2021, 12:10:07 AM
Try the mods here: https://www.diystompboxes.com/DIYFiles/up/Build_Your_Own_DS-1_Distortion.pdf
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 19, 2021, 03:57:42 AM
Quotei removed r1 on the lpb1 and now it hits max volume when the ds1's volume is at 12 o clock, if i turn the ds1s volume up past 12 it gets quieter
I'm sure I mentioned removing VR1 as well as R1? Both of them connect to 0v while the DS-1 controls use Vref 4.5v and that is the cause of the problems.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 20, 2021, 09:11:17 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 19, 2021, 03:57:42 AM
Quotei removed r1 on the lpb1 and now it hits max volume when the ds1's volume is at 12 o clock, if i turn the ds1s volume up past 12 it gets quieter
I'm sure I mentioned removing VR1 as well as R1? Both of them connect to 0v while the DS-1 controls use Vref 4.5v and that is the cause of the problems.
but how would i go about removing vr1, like do i replace with with a 100k resistor and jumper one of the sides of the resistor to the output or what?
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 21, 2021, 04:37:46 AM
Don't replace VR1 with anything. The output capacitor C2 feeds its lug 3, instead, connect it to lug 3 of the DS-1 level pot.
If you want to keep the existing LPB-1 output wire, link the PCB pads of VR1 lugs 2 & 3 with some wire.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 21, 2021, 09:30:28 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 21, 2021, 04:37:46 AM
Don't replace VR1 with anything. The output capacitor C2 feeds its lug 3, instead, connect it to lug 3 of the DS-1 level pot.
If you want to keep the existing LPB-1 output wire, link the PCB pads of VR1 lugs 2 & 3 with some wire.
i just removed the trimpot and jumpered the output cap to the output, and nothing has changed.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 22, 2021, 09:20:15 AM
I can't see why it should misbehave now. Are you sure you disconnected the right pot wires in the DS-1? IIRC, there's a flat cable from the pots to the PCB and the ones to disconnect are I think numbered 7 & 9.
You should still have the DS-1 4.5v reference on all of the DS-1 tone & level pot lugs.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 24, 2021, 12:19:25 AM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 22, 2021, 09:20:15 AM
I can't see why it should misbehave now. Are you sure you disconnected the right pot wires in the DS-1? IIRC, there's a flat cable from the pots to the PCB and the ones to disconnect are I think numbered 7 & 9.
You should still have the DS-1 4.5v reference on all of the DS-1 tone & level pot lugs.
wait so i disconnects tone 2 and level 3 from the pcb, and wire the lpb1 in/out to the pots? just making sure i have this right.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 24, 2021, 12:20:33 AM
'cause ive been wiring the lpb1s in/out to where the pots are wired on the pcb.
(https://i.postimg.cc/N2Qxv3rJ/20211123-212023-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N2Qxv3rJ)
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 24, 2021, 04:19:52 AM
Quotewait so i disconnects tone 2 and level 3 from the pcb, and wire the lpb1 in/out to the pots? just making sure i have this right.
Yes. If you look at the PCB copper trace, you'll see those 2 pot wires are simply connected to each other and don't go anywhere else but it means your LPB-1 is bypassed by the existing connections if you leave the wires connected.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 24, 2021, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 24, 2021, 04:19:52 AM
Quotewait so i disconnects tone 2 and level 3 from the pcb, and wire the lpb1 in/out to the pots? just making sure i have this right.
Yes. If you look at the PCB copper trace, you'll see those 2 pot wires are simply connected to each other and don't go anywhere else but it means your LPB-1 is bypassed by the existing connections if you leave the wires connected.
wait how do i only disconnect those wires? 'cause its on a ribbon cable, and the ribbon cable is glued there.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 25, 2021, 04:52:47 AM
Snip!
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 25, 2021, 05:31:27 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 25, 2021, 04:52:47 AM
Snip!
its glued in tho
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 26, 2021, 06:57:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/YvxfZwQj/20211126-155623-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YvxfZwQj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Hrfzbt09/Inked20211126-155623-HDR-LI.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hrfzbt09)
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 27, 2021, 03:44:28 AM
You have 3 options.
You can cut the wire at some point along the cable. Got a craft knife/scalpel? Slit the web between the conductors and snip out a portion of the wire.
Use a rotary tool/Dremel with a burr and grind away the PCB copper trace between the 2 pot wires.
Chop out the glue around the wire so you can unsolder it.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 28, 2021, 11:08:23 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 27, 2021, 03:44:28 AM
You have 3 options.
You can cut the wire at some point along the cable. Got a craft knife/scalpel? Slit the web between the conductors and snip out a portion of the wire.
Use a rotary tool/Dremel with a burr and grind away the PCB copper trace between the 2 pot wires.
Chop out the glue around the wire so you can unsolder it.
ok, i used an exacto knife to cut out the glue, and clipped those wires off, and now everything works perfectly and sounds amazing! thank you
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 28, 2021, 11:43:50 PM
Quote from: snow123 on November 28, 2021, 11:08:23 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 27, 2021, 03:44:28 AM
You have 3 options.
You can cut the wire at some point along the cable. Got a craft knife/scalpel? Slit the web between the conductors and snip out a portion of the wire.
Use a rotary tool/Dremel with a burr and grind away the PCB copper trace between the 2 pot wires.
Chop out the glue around the wire so you can unsolder it.
ok, i used an exacto knife to cut out the glue, and clipped those wires off, and now everything works perfectly and sounds amazing! thank you
wait there's 2 things that are happening now, the pedal starts hissing (but starts squealing with an overdrive hitting it) when the level is at 10, and the level control kinda stops increasing the actual volume after 12 o clock, and starts increasing the gain a little bit.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 29, 2021, 04:57:09 AM
This is all inevitable. Putting a gain circuit after a distortion amplifies the noise it makes. The LPB-1 is an inverting circuit and the input booster in the DS-1 circuit also inverts allowing positive feedback conditions within the DS-1 when the gain is high.

You can reduce the gain of the LPB-1 easily by increasing the value of R5 currently 390 ohms according to the Beavis schematic I linked earlier. You could try 1k there. If possible, fit a 10k trimmer pot so you can tweak it.
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 29, 2021, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 29, 2021, 04:57:09 AM
This is all inevitable. Putting a gain circuit after a distortion amplifies the noise it makes. The LPB-1 is an inverting circuit and the input booster in the DS-1 circuit also inverts allowing positive feedback conditions within the DS-1 when the gain is high.

You can reduce the gain of the LPB-1 easily by increasing the value of R5 currently 390 ohms according to the Beavis schematic I linked earlier. You could try 1k there. If possible, fit a 10k trimmer pot so you can tweak it.
what about the volume pot not really increasing the volume past 12 o clock
Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: anotherjim on November 29, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
There are circuits after the Level pot. At some point, these are clipping and it can't go louder (I suspect the bypass JFET Q7 doesn't like too much level. Not surprising, the LPB-1 has enough gain to do this. But you have it working in principle so only need to lower the LPB-1 gain to suit. Lowering the gain will also reduce the noise generated by the LPB-1 itself.

Title: Re: how can i make a boss ds-1 behave more like a fuzz pedal?
Post by: snow123 on November 29, 2021, 11:39:53 PM
Quote from: anotherjim on November 29, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
There are circuits after the Level pot. At some point, these are clipping and it can't go louder (I suspect the bypass JFET Q7 doesn't like too much level. Not surprising, the LPB-1 has enough gain to do this. But you have it working in principle so only need to lower the LPB-1 gain to suit. Lowering the gain will also reduce the noise generated by the LPB-1 itself.
ok, thank you.