DIYstompboxes.com

DIY Stompboxes => Digital & DSP => Topic started by: carlozsulca on February 25, 2022, 12:07:59 PM

Title: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: carlozsulca on February 25, 2022, 12:07:59 PM
I recently found this blog (https://sites.google.com/site/v1000flasher/home), the author gives a good explanation but there are things that were not very clear to me:
1- How do I use the DREasm.exe that he provides, to convert the .asm to .obj to be able to load the effect, try to do it as he explains on the page but I don't get any results, does anyone know how to do it?
2- on the page he explains how to change the atmega that comes with the pedal for an atmega328, he talks about a code for the atmega that he made but I couldn't find it on his page but in a forum I got it but I don't have much idea how to pass it to .hex to install it in the new atmega , the code I found is the compressed called "avr.zip"
3- in case of not being able to install the new atmega, on the PCB of the pedal, it seems to have some ports to load code that comes from the factory to that atmega, does anyone know how I can load effects using that atmega?

-I attach the files that I found in the forums and the page "v1000flasher"
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ghiTDUtwFMsMEVu0-eErN6cOzZQoGYv9?usp=sharing
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: MetalGuy on February 25, 2022, 04:00:12 PM
I'm also interested in reprogramming the AL3201 and several years ago started a thread.

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=119991.0

There are very knowledgeable guys here but it seems like none of them has an experience with that one.

I'm really surprised how this subject is so poorly documented, actually not documented.

While searching how to to that I also stumbled on the blog you linked to and even wrote to the guy but no luck so far.

Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: anotherjim on February 27, 2022, 06:07:22 AM
Having the .HEX file it's standard AVR ISP programming to load the chip. However...
If you want to load it on the system board there are some hurdles so it's easier to program a chip with a standalone AVR programmer. You need to do some investigation to see how it can be done on the existing chip on board as a bunch of pins need to be freely driven by the programmer (it's a 6wire connection) - and it could have been write-protected so you can't change its code this way anyway. Probably it wasn't protected as the blogger must have been able to read the old Mega8 to see what it's supposed to do.
I don't have a programmer that can do an SMD chip so can't suggest anything.

The next problem is that programming the code maybe isn't the only thing you need to do. AVR 328's come set to run at an internally generated 1Mhz. It might be right for the job as it is, but it's also possible the board supplies an external clock/crystal/resonator or the internal clock changed to 8Mhz. The clock source is selected by so-called "fuse bit" registers in the chip which is a separate job for the programmer to do and not part of the .HEX file.
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: MetalGuy on February 27, 2022, 08:11:20 AM
What about programming directly the AL3201? Any idea how to do it?
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: carlozsulca on February 27, 2022, 11:33:13 PM
Having the .HEX file it's standard AVR ISP programming to load the chip. However...
If you want to load it on the system board there are some hurdles so it's easier to program a chip with a standalone AVR programmer. You need to do some investigation to see how it can be done on the existing chip on board as a bunch of pins need to be freely driven by the programmer (it's a 6wire connection) - and it could have been write-protected so you can't change its code this way anyway. Probably it wasn't protected as the blogger must have been able to read the old Mega8 to see what it's supposed to do.
I don't have a programmer that can do an SMD chip so can't suggest anything.

The next problem is that programming the code maybe isn't the only thing you need to do. AVR 328's come set to run at an internally generated 1Mhz. It might be right for the job as it is, but it's also possible the board supplies an external clock/crystal/resonator or the internal clock changed to 8Mhz. The clock source is selected by so-called "fuse bit" registers in the chip which is a separate job for the programmer to do and not part of the .HEX file.
I was digging into the pcb and found these pins and managed to identify them:

(https://i.postimg.cc/5X60hpDB/Whats-App-Image-2022-02-27-at-22-46-07.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5X60hpDB)

use an arduino in ISP mode and connect to the pedal the avrdudess recognized the atmega8 so i was right i made a blank .hex to extract the .hex from the atmega8 but at the time of reading i forgot to uncheck an option that before any operation will completely erase the microcontroller, thus erasing all memory before reading, the pedal was left as a paperweight but I am looking for someone who can do the same process as me but unchecking that option to erase memory to be able to extract the .hex so that it can revive my pedal
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: carlozsulca on February 27, 2022, 11:39:30 PM
What about programming directly the AL3201? Any idea how to do it?
it cannot be programmed directly since it has no memory to store programs in, the al3201 uses a microcontroller that tells it what to do and with what values to operate the audio signal
I am documenting the whole process that I am doing to be able to make a programming guide since this dsp is not very exploited in the diy world
If you help me revive mine I would be very grateful :)
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: anotherjim on February 28, 2022, 03:41:13 AM
It's cool the ATmega prog pins are provided. Since it doesn't have to work the DSP in real-time, it might well run at the default 1Mhz.
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: carlozsulca on February 28, 2022, 09:06:57 AM
It's cool the ATmega prog pins are provided. Since it doesn't have to work the DSP in real-time, it might well run at the default 1Mhz.
I found some code for the atmega128 which controls the dsp, at the beginning of the code it says it runs at 8Mhz and the atmega328 also has 8Mhz internal so it probably just needs to do some tweaking to get it to work on an arduino though if we get ambitious, you could control the dsp with a single attiny
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: MetalGuy on February 28, 2022, 03:26:44 PM
Quote
it cannot be programmed directly since it has no memory to store programs in

What I meant was to replace/edit the stock effects that come with it.
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: carlozsulca on February 28, 2022, 03:59:26 PM
Quote
it cannot be programmed directly since it has no memory to store programs in

What I meant was to replace/edit the stock effects that come with it.
the stock programs are in memory that cannot be modified, nor can they be varied with potentiometers, as the fv-1 does, that is why a microcontroller is used to manage external programs, if I achieve revive my fx600 I could try to connect with the computer and be able to load ready-made programs (there are many by the way) and learning a little about the syntax, any effect could be made
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: MetalGuy on March 01, 2022, 07:10:56 AM
So currently the only option to have other effects is that Atmel fx600 code?
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: carlozsulca on March 01, 2022, 07:39:42 AM
So currently the only option to have other effects is that Atmel fx600 code?
not as you say but something occurred to me, all Behringer digital pedals (or the vast majority) with 4 potentiometers, have the same PCB and everything exactly the same, what differentiates them are the programs they have in the microcontroller, if any of us has one of these pedals and we extract the .hex, following the process that I did and sharing them we can make an effects library and we can turn an fx600 into a dd400 or a reverb, with a simple code change like an arduino
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: ElectricDruid on March 01, 2022, 10:35:18 AM
not as you say but something occurred to me, all Behringer digital pedals (or the vast majority) with 4 potentiometers, have the same PCB and everything exactly the same, what differentiates them are the programs they have in the microcontroller, if any of us has one of these pedals and we extract the .hex, following the process that I did and sharing them we can make an effects library and we can turn an fx600 into a dd400 or a reverb, with a simple code change like an arduino

That would be very cool and might make the Behringer pedals quite a bit more popular than they are, since they'd suddenly increase in versatility and also provide a useful (and cheap!) platform for a bit of DSP pedal development.

Keep us posted!
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: carlozsulca on March 02, 2022, 12:15:57 PM
not as you say but something occurred to me, all Behringer digital pedals (or the vast majority) with 4 potentiometers, have the same PCB and everything exactly the same, what differentiates them are the programs they have in the microcontroller, if any of us has one of these pedals and we extract the .hex, following the process that I did and sharing them we can make an effects library and we can turn an fx600 into a dd400 or a reverb, with a simple code change like an arduino
I think it would be nice to make a simple tutorial for people to start sharing their .hex and build the library, I'll be putting together a tutorial and I'll make a thread about it, it would be nice to talk to a moderator to allow me to put the post in several sections for reach more people, since from what I saw, very few enter the dsp and digital section

That would be very cool and might make the Behringer pedals quite a bit more popular than they are, since they'd suddenly increase in versatility and also provide a useful (and cheap!) platform for a bit of DSP pedal development.

Keep us posted!
I think it would be nice to make a simple tutorial for people to start sharing their .hex and build the library, I'll be putting together a tutorial and I'll make a thread about it, it would be nice to talk to a moderator to allow me to put the post in several sections for reach more people, since from what I saw, very few enter the dsp and digital section
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: FiveseveN on March 03, 2022, 06:30:49 AM
talk to a moderator to allow me to put the post in several sections
That's not going to help you. There are only so many users interested in DSP and they know where to find the relevant section.
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: ElectricDruid on March 08, 2022, 01:57:02 PM
I agree that the DSP section is the place for it, but I think there's a few of us out here who might be interested. It's a new chip for the FV-1 crowd, right?! Looks pretty similar, but it might have a few different strengths and weaknesses.
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: carlozsulca on March 10, 2022, 06:52:44 AM
I was trying to study the internal programs a bit using the Behringer PCB, but there are times when the al3201 locks up and I have to turn it off for a few hours to get it working again, maybe soldering wires directly to the pins is not the most accurate, in the datasheet of the v1000 there is a schematic with an ic that is dac and adc in one, which is cheaper and would be good for a development board, it will be necessary to change the part of the opam so that they work with 9v, they connect with a altmega328 and ch340 to freely load the programs, now the obstacle would be the atmel code that can load programs from the computer and can edit values ​​with potentiometers and switches, this would give us more freedom and tap tempo, I was thinking of hiring someone to do that code but it will be later, I'm still doing homework for the university, having said all this we would be with a DSP with good characteristics for the price and we would make good delays and reverbs.
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: Ice-9 on March 11, 2022, 02:07:31 PM
The AL3201 is a very old chip which was designed by Alesis, One of the guys behind this design was Keith Barr who started Alesis and designed many of the Reverb chips that were used in their designs. This same man went on to start Spin Semiconductor and designed the FV-1. The FV-1 is a much more powerful DSP than the AL3201.  The AL3201 was discontinued some time ago but Cool Audio have brought it back to us while also changing the internal programs. Overall it is still a nice sounding DSP. I look forward to reading this thread to see where it goes.
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: niektb on March 11, 2022, 04:49:46 PM
I find this tread really interesting as I found that FV-1s are really hard to come by... (Too bad for a really fully featured bare PCB I have here, just waiting for the chip to become available :( ) And the prices I've seen get close.to what one would pay for a fully finished FX600!
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: mark2 on March 11, 2022, 10:07:27 PM
I find this tread really interesting as I found that FV-1s are really hard to come by... (Too bad for a really fully featured bare PCB I have here, just waiting for the chip to become available :( ) And the prices I've seen get close.to what one would pay for a fully finished FX600!
I have small quantities of FV-1s I can sell if you need one or a couple. Not enough for any commercial stuff, just for DIY'ers. Just msg me if so. US-based.
Title: Re: load effects on behringer fx600
Post by: carlozsulca on March 12, 2022, 11:39:49 PM
The AL3201 is a very old chip which was designed by Alesis, One of the guys behind this design was Keith Barr who started Alesis and designed many of the Reverb chips that were used in their designs. This same man went on to start Spin Semiconductor and designed the FV-1. The FV-1 is a much more powerful DSP than the AL3201.  The AL3201 was discontinued some time ago but Cool Audio have brought it back to us while also changing the internal programs. Overall it is still a nice sounding DSP. I look forward to reading this thread to see where it goes.
of course, the al3201 is discontinued and now the v1000 is in production, but the al3201 can still be found at alliexpress at a very good price and with little chance of counterfeiting (which already happened to me with an  fv-1 of alliexpress) and you can make good delays and reverbs very cheap