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DIY Stompboxes => Building your own stompbox => Topic started by: Atk on November 18, 2004, 02:39:42 AM

Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Atk on November 18, 2004, 02:39:42 AM
I've found thi link for FF:

http://www.members.lycos.fr/davpseudo/factorx.html (http://www.membres.lycos.fr/davpseudo/factorx.htm)

What do you think about it?

Bye :P
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 18, 2004, 03:21:53 AM
the question is, what do YOU think about it?  8^)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: bobbletrox on November 18, 2004, 04:11:47 AM
I reckon it'd be cooler to build this instead:
* take one 4069 hex inverter...
* use one inverter for a cmos boost...
* use two more inverters for Tim Escobedo's Calavera...
* extent the bias trimmers to the top of the box...

Bada-bing, you've got yerself a Hex Machine! :o
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: MartyMart on November 18, 2004, 04:27:05 AM
I'm very sorry to see your work posted up Zachary, but you are suffering the same fate as me and thousands of other "writers" and "producers" of music, ie: somewhere on the net you can find EVERYTHING and usualy are able to download it for nothing.........Limewire, Kazaa  etc etc etc
I guess thats "progress"  eh ??

I think you've designed some of the coolest stompers around, so I hope the sales are not damaged by stuff like this,  just my 2 pence worth :D
Respect,
Marty.

www.martinlister.com
Title: ...
Post by: petemoore on November 18, 2004, 08:55:34 AM
Looks like a buncha Lyco's ads with popups to me.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: MartyMart on November 18, 2004, 09:15:25 AM
It was there earlier Pete, perhaps its been taken down...?

Good  !!

Marty. 8)
Title: Au revoir!
Post by: David on November 18, 2004, 09:31:20 AM
It appears that it has indeed been taken down.
Good riddance!   :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: bobbletrox on November 18, 2004, 09:41:13 AM
Quote from: bobbletrox
I reckon it'd be cooler to build this instead:
* take one 4069 hex inverter...
* use one inverter for a cmos boost...
* use two more inverters for Tim Escobedo's Calavera...
* extent the bias trimmers to the top of the box...

Bada-bing, you've got yerself a Hex Machine! :o


I just realised that'd be the same as any other 3 stage cmos distortion (except for the biasing method).  It's late.
Title: ...
Post by: petemoore on November 18, 2004, 10:16:55 AM
Hopefully they caught it in time...
  Can somebody send me a copy ???...[lol]
  The last one I saw wasn't really a FF or anything else, it stayed in Schmes II for a time.
  hey Zach !!!  8)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: troubledtom on November 18, 2004, 01:25:50 PM
not this again :x
    i design and build my own devices, and i bought a fuzzprobe/ff,
why did i do it? i love it { but have not used it in 2-3 years, it's a trophy for me, and i'd never sell it or reverse it} . not to mention Z. has been VERY kind and helpfull to me. i'm to busy to rip a friend or enemy off.
           long live www.zvex.com    
               peace,
                    - tom pollock
       www.troubledvariance.com
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: mlabbee on November 18, 2004, 01:42:25 PM
I'm just curious if there's any empirical evidence that the availability of the schematic for a particular effect unit has any real effect on sales.  It seems to me that a schematic and a premade unit address two relatively distinct markets.  Granted, there's definitely some overlap, but it strikes me that most of the people who buy Zvex boxes (and units from just about any other manufacturer) are not the kind of people who build their own boxes.

Any thoughts Zachary, Paul (of Frostwave), or any other volume commercial manufacturers?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: cd on November 18, 2004, 01:52:00 PM
Why is it that newbies don't bother to read the "About this Forum" sticky thread before posting?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: mlabbee on November 18, 2004, 01:57:59 PM
I have. How is it relevant to my post?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Lonestarjohnny on November 18, 2004, 02:05:17 PM
Bodda-Bing, here i just found some nice 74hc14's and looked up the data sheet to see what I could build out of them and what's the first thing I see on here, speakin about wierd, LOL !
Johnny
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: MartyMart on November 18, 2004, 02:08:08 PM
I think cd was refering to "atk's" original post !!

Marty. :wink:
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 18, 2004, 02:09:01 PM
mlabbee: me thinx cd is referring to Atk...

not only diy-builders are reading this forum,
but also potential commercial guys - this includes me -
and possible cloners...


edit: thru-zero-posting again...  8)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: mlabbee on November 18, 2004, 02:15:31 PM
Ah! I see.  My apologies for being testy CD.

Puretube - good point.  The exposure to commercial builders didn't occur to me.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 18, 2004, 02:21:13 PM
there are commercial guys however,
that got strong ethics,
and support Mr. Vex (and others) in his (their) strive...

 8)

[err, that includes me, again...  :oops: ]
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: cd on November 18, 2004, 02:22:08 PM
Yup I was referring to the original post.  Had ATK read all the FAQs and lurked the forum for a while (and of course, done a search) the answers would have been obvious.  Which is not to say that newbies should not ask questions, but since this has been hashed over on this board dozens of times, I can only see the post as ignorant or inflammatory.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 18, 2004, 02:24:30 PM
i see it as "nooby"...

(is this live - or is it m*morex?)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: troubledtom on November 18, 2004, 02:44:31 PM
Quote from: mlabbee
I'm just curious if there's any empirical evidence that the availability of the schematic for a particular effect unit has any real effect on sales.  It seems to me that a schematic and a premade unit address two relatively distinct markets.  Granted, there's definitely some overlap, but it strikes me that most of the people who buy Zvex boxes (and units from just about any other manufacturer) are not the kind of people who build their own boxes.

Any thoughts Zachary, Paul (of Frostwave), or any other volume commercial manufacturers?


thats bullshit,
    i'm 9-11 months backorderd almost every other manufacturer of pedals
that i know not to mention all the musicians {pro and others} that i've worked w/ had 1-3 zvex devices. some of Z,s schemos are out there
but if he posted all his stuff on his site. sales would go down and it WOULD effect the families he employs , in a bad way. not good or cool.
    he/we can not compete w/ fx companies that have everything made in china for 50 cents an hr.
   this is the first yr i made a fair proffit and guess who gets the biggest
chuck of it , uncle sam.
     dann green post all his layouts and mods for free and most people don't know who he is....... one of the most smart and cool freinds i have.
but his pedal bizz is far from a golden egg. he lives on 1/10th of what i
make a year just to survive.
     do the math. it's not easy make'n it in the usa when the same device
can be mass produced in china for a fraction of the cost.
    i'm lucky to find a worker for less than 10 bucks a hour. do the math.
          sorry for the rant , it just struck a nerve.
                     - tt
ps: boss/roland is the walmart of fx. they employ bosses in the usa and workers in china for the most part. more lost usa jobs every day. there is an up side you can get a good cookie cutter pedal for less than a 100 bucks, but in the decades to come , will we have money or jobs to buy them?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: cd on November 18, 2004, 03:02:22 PM
Great, now I'm going to perpetuate another thread I dubbed useless :)

BOSS/DOD/etc. and boutiquers operate in completely different markets.  Besides, even if boutique schems aren't published on the internet, anyone can plunk down $$ for a pedal (gooped or otherwise) and reverse engineer it.  Call it "The 5 Knob Fuzz Pedal", put it in an unpainted box with Radio Shack knobs, use no other marketing (no references to anyone or anything, just "it's a fuzz pedal") and sell it.  

I can understand if you don't want to make it EASY for anyone to copy something, but if it's out there, it's out there.  Sell the service, the marketing, the experience, cool factor, retro chic, whatever of your product - that's what makes it unique, and combined with a great sound, that's what will sell.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 18, 2004, 03:17:10 PM
it won`t sell, if there`s no MoJo behind it...

http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=25039&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://www.blitzwire.de
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: troubledtom on November 18, 2004, 03:19:42 PM
Quote from: cd
Great, now I'm going to perpetuate another thread I dubbed useless :)

BOSS/DOD/etc. and boutiquers operate in completely different markets.  Besides, even if boutique schems aren't published on the internet, anyone can plunk down $$ for a pedal (gooped or otherwise) and reverse engineer it.  Call it "The 5 Knob Fuzz Pedal", put it in an unpainted box with Radio Shack knobs, use no other marketing (no references to anyone or anything, just "it's a fuzz pedal") and sell it.  

I can understand if you don't want to make it EASY for anyone to copy something, but if it's out there, it's out there.  Sell the service, the marketing, the experience, cool factor, retro chic, whatever of your product - that's what makes it unique, and combined with a great sound, that's what will sell.



wake me when it's over, better off shoot me now........
        zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: EdJ on November 18, 2004, 04:38:48 PM
Aren`t the archives there to prevent posts like this?
Ed
Title: ...
Post by: petemoore on November 18, 2004, 04:39:24 PM
Mainly Curiosity. I can't talk, I never even sampled one.
  I love the artwork and petitness...like a curio looking device, 'eloquently painted, the kids must just love it!!! Fantastic novelty factor.
  Hey Zach, do you sell artwork on a regular canvas for framing? That might be a nice addition to your product line, as the boxes would be suitable for framing if they were flat.
Title: Re: ...
Post by: troubledtom on November 18, 2004, 04:55:59 PM
Quote from: petemoore
Mainly Curiosity. I can't talk, I never even sampled one.
  I love the artwork and petitness...like a curio looking device, 'eloquently painted, the kids must just love it!!! Fantastic novelty factor.
  Hey Zach, do you sell artwork on a regular canvas for framing? That might be a nice addition to your product line, as the boxes would be suitable for framing if they were flat.


his artist does sale paintings....,   but of a different kind.
       - tt 8)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: cd on November 18, 2004, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: EdJ
Aren`t the archives there to prevent posts like this?
Ed


Yes, but who bothers to use the Search function (see the first post I made in this thread)?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 18, 2004, 05:11:17 PM
long live: "lurk before posting"  :P
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: gez on November 18, 2004, 05:37:53 PM
Marrowfat peas, they may be peas but they’re not marrowfat!  Buyer beware…
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: hair force one on November 20, 2004, 07:08:20 AM
actually on the biggest french guitar forum there's a 96 pages topic on how to clone a Fuzz Factory.... Sad but true, i tried to told them it was wrong, that they should built Tim's TMK instead but no way...

on the other hand a lot of those narrow minded kiddy Muse fans had never touched a tranny or a resistor before they tried to awkwardly clone the brilliant FuzzFactory...
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: gez on November 20, 2004, 07:17:43 AM
Quote from: hair force one
actually on the biggest french guitar forum there's a 96 pages topic on how to clone a Fuzz Factory.... Sad but true, i tried to told them it was wrong, that they should built Tim's TMK instead but no way...


I noticed a similar discussion on a German FX board, schematic was posted too.  No disrespect to Zachary but I'm not interested in his schematic(s).  It's a shame that more people don't use him as an example of what can be achieved by hard work and study and come up with ideas of their own rather than just rip stuff off all the time.

PS  Broadbeans aren’t that broad either…
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: JHS on November 20, 2004, 08:09:31 AM
The schems in the German forum were postet by me.

No credits to ZV at all !!!!!

The SHO-schem is identical to a sample-schem in the BS170 datasheet, identical to a schem in a russian electronik book from early '80, identical to schems in tutorials at German universities since '75.

The FF-schem can be found nearly 1:1 in that russian book too, ex. pot for stab and gate, also in Brocelli's Cookbook.

So, what's the hack?

To me it's just a joke, that a manufacturer copy a schem from a book or a datasheet, add a (C) and tell everone that's his "invention".

But I'm not unfair, so I don't post a schem of the Nanohead
(if you want to klone it, make a web-search and find ZV's source by yourself, put the snipplets together and you get it).

BTW: You can find a very improoved version of the BS170-datascheet sample at a nearly every German university - build this instead.

JHS
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: black mariah on November 20, 2004, 08:20:02 AM
Quote from: JHS


To me it's just a joke, that a manufacturer copy a schem from a book or a datasheet, add a (C) and tell everone that's his "invention".


Why? It worked for Leo Fender, Jim Marshall, Randy Smith, Mike Soldano... I could go one but you get the point.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: gez on November 20, 2004, 08:50:30 AM
Quote from: JHS
But I'm not unfair, so I don't post a schem of the Nanohead (if you want to klone it, make a web-search and find ZV's source by yourself, put the snipplets together and you get it)


Er, that's how most circuits are designed. Basic building blocks are used to create a whole. There's only so many ways you can do a lot of things in electronics so stock circuits act as a template.  It takes knowledge to understand, interpret and implement those basic building blocks and the end product is still a result of someone’s hard work.  If that person wishes to protect their circuit to ensure they continue to make a living, so be it.

Sure, every clod who knows how to use a soldering iron is setting themselves up as a 'boutique' builder these days, but could they design something from scratch or do they understand enough about the subject to custom build something for a customer?

The majority of 'boutique' builders make me laugh as they're no better than someone selling fake Rolex watches from the boot of a car.  The only difference being that their Boss/MXR/whatever copy (not even a clone) is more expensive than the original...weird!  I thought 'boutique' meant unique??  Stupid me...

Zachary is one of the few who genuinely deserve the title.  I don't really care if his booster is similar/copy of a standard design, the majority of his stuff isn't.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: bobbletrox on November 20, 2004, 09:10:55 AM
Quote from: JHS
The SHO-schem is identical to a sample-schem in the BS170 datasheet


I've only ever seen a switching test circuit on a BS170 datasheet.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Maneco on November 20, 2004, 09:13:17 AM
Quote from: hair force one
actually on the biggest french guitar forum there's a 96 pages topic on how to clone a Fuzz Factory.... Sad but true, i tried to told them it was wrong, that they should built Tim's TMK instead but no way...

on the other hand a lot of those narrow minded kiddy Muse fans had never touched a tranny or a resistor before they tried to awkwardly clone the brilliant FuzzFactory...



What's that forum?  i'll start hanging there in case they try to clone soemthing from me... :lol:  :lol:
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: moogatroid2000 on November 20, 2004, 12:17:15 PM
Could we get a link to any of those data sheets???
I don't want to see a Vex schematic but I would love to see these other sources of information.
Didn't I see more or less the same thing at a Japanese site? Only it was a circuit that Jack Orman had named after himself?
Weird.
Anyway, I for one think the data sheet or app note would be a great thing to have a look at.\
Thanks
Jas'
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Aharon on November 20, 2004, 12:42:58 PM
Another option would be to build a Skyripper.I checked the links and none of them work.
After a while I found this one:
http://sounds.ampage.org/
Just click on MORE until you find it,page 4 I think.There's also other Gagan fuzzes schems like the Bronto,Dino and NitroBurner.
The UglyFace also yields unusual fuzz.
Aharon

PS: an interesting thing to do for the forum would be to design a FF type effect taking a basic Fuzz Face circuit and then deciding what parameters we want to control and how,slowly adding pieces to the puzzle and have a couple of guys with breadboards test the progress as we go.
It's a learning experience for all and contributes to the community spirit.
As a result we get a truly forum designed effect.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: markusw on November 20, 2004, 12:50:14 PM
Quote
I would love to see these other sources of information.


Me too :D

Thanks in advance JHS

 :wink:
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Lurco on November 20, 2004, 01:18:51 PM
Quote from: JHS
The schems in the German forum were postet by me.

No credits to ZV at all !!!!!


JHS


What a way to win friends, gain an enemy, and lose respect!
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: EdJ on November 20, 2004, 01:53:41 PM
In my opinion when someone asks you not  to post something that belongs to him you simply don`t post it.No matter what.
Again look through the archives.
Ed
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: moogatroid2000 on November 20, 2004, 02:32:07 PM
Quote
In my opinion when someone asks you not to post something that belongs to him you simply don`t post it.No matter what.


But there is nothing wrong with posting a link to a datasheet or a an app note.
Let's see the German data sheet. I been looking at german google and can't find it yet.
 :roll:
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Brian Marshall on November 20, 2004, 02:38:19 PM
Quote from: gez
Quote from: JHS
But I'm not unfair, so I don't post a schem of the Nanohead (if you want to klone it, make a web-search and find ZV's source by yourself, put the snipplets together and you get it)


Er, that's how most circuits are designed. Basic building blocks are used to create a whole. There's only so many ways you can do a lot of things in electronics so stock circuits act as a template.  It takes knowledge to understand, interpret and implement those basic building blocks and the end product is still a result of someone’s hard work.  If that person wishes to protect their circuit to ensure they continue to make a living, so be it.

Sure, every clod who knows how to use a soldering iron is setting themselves up as a 'boutique' builder these days, but could they design something from scratch or do they understand enough about the subject to custom build something for a customer?

The majority of 'boutique' builders make me laugh as they're no better than someone selling fake Rolex watches from the boot of a car.  The only difference being that their Boss/MXR/whatever copy (not even a clone) is more expensive than the original...weird!  I thought 'boutique' meant unique??  Stupid me...

Zachary is one of the few who genuinely deserve the title.  I don't really care if his booster is similar/copy of a standard design, the majority of his stuff isn't.


Well the stuff i make is for the most part original (although not earth shattering... no flux capacitors or anything) and i do post the schematics here most of the time.  I dont like the word boutique... it sounds pretentious, but sometimes 'unique' doesnt always apply to the circuit its self.  Zvex boxes certainly look different than anyone elses stuff available commercially. Also if you ask Z what is going on in a given pedal he will usually give you an explaination.

I hope you dont think that I'm selling fake rolexes.  I have some stuff I'm working on that is different from anything i know of that is commercially availble.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: gez on November 20, 2004, 05:18:31 PM
Quote from: Brian Marshall
I hope you dont think that I'm selling fake rolexes.  I have some stuff I'm working on that is different from anything i know of that is commercially availble.


I admire any 'boutiquers' who design, or at least know how to design, circuits from the ground up...

I wish I'd never contributed to this thread.  I won't be replying any further
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Aharon on November 20, 2004, 07:26:48 PM
The interesting thing is to watch as people take sides,it's almost tribal,very territorial,sort of like a pissing contest.
Then the moral/ethic card comes into play.
Don't get bent out of shape,relax.

Aharon
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: bobbletrox on November 20, 2004, 08:33:09 PM
Quote from: EdJ
In my opinion when someone asks you not  to post something that belongs to him you simply don`t post it.No matter what.
Again look through the archives.
Ed


Except technically, Zvex doesn't "own" it.  If he thinks his effects are unique, he should get a patent - because that's the proper avenue for the protection of original ideas.

The posting of Zvex schematics on the internet isn't an ethical question at all, and the defense that "9 people's livelihoods depend on it" is bunk in my opinion because Zvex and his employees willingly entered into the marketplace, and in doing so, willingly excepted all the risk involved in operating a business.  Sure, it's polite to refrain from posting Zvex schematics because Zachary's a nice guy, but make no mistake about it, the public is under no obligation, ethical or otherwise, to keep Zachary's designs a secret.  He knew this when he filled out the business registration papers.

I'm not disrespecting anyone, I'm merely pointing out the realities of business...and there are markets that are WAY more cut throat than effects who'd probably chuckle to themselves over these so called "ethical dilemmas".
Title: ...
Post by: petemoore on November 20, 2004, 09:38:47 PM
Don't allow me to totally derail this thread by asking 2 questions:
  Who [of those who responded], has built and modded the Rocket, a three transistor Fuzz? Thanks to all who contributed to it's design, including Mr. Ohm, and all who contribute here.
  " I heard a Big Muff once..."
  Note on the Rocket, tonights build / firing of the beautifully hot sounding circuit seemed to take off better with different transistors using a trimpot [25k] on Q2's collector.
  Mods I tried...
  output cap .1uf - .47uf
  input cap  .1uf - 2.2uf
  Q2 Emitter bypass cap  10uf [Brite] - 53uf [Thikk]
  I omitted the tone section and carefully chose a cap value to ground there.
  Also omitted was the cap after the gain knob, there are a couple more optional caps also...the one across the PS resistor, and I think there may have been another 'redudnant mojo' cap in there also.
  ...Superb Sounds in a very Tunable FF type circuit.
  High Gainers are preferred IME, transistors [including the buffer] can alter the tone, dont' forget to rebias.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: bobbletrox on November 21, 2004, 01:09:04 AM
I don't know why you'd want to clone a Zvex pedal anyway since they're available retail.  You'd think people would rather build a circuit that no one  can buy from the store.

It's also funny that it's always the SHO and Fuzz Factory getting reverse engineered, and they're probably be the most boring of choices when you think of all the other pedals Zvex makes.  Are the Machine, Mammoth, Seeks, Probes ect too tricky for these guys work out or something?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 21, 2004, 01:46:14 AM
http://www.cps.unizar.es/~te/Docencia_archivos/fundele_archivos/BS170.pdf
http://www.unizar.es/euitiz/areas/aretecel/docencia/digitel/Datasheets/BS170.pdf
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/BS/BS170.pdf
 :shock:  :P
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 21, 2004, 04:02:22 AM
Quote from: JHS
The schems in the German forum were postet by me.

No credits to ZV at all !!!!!

The SHO-schem is identical to a sample-schem in the BS170 datasheet, identical to a schem in a russian electronik book from early '80, identical to schems in tutorials at German universities since '75.

The FF-schem can be found nearly 1:1 in that russian book too, ex. pot for stab and gate, also in Brocelli's Cookbook.

So, what's the hack?

To me it's just a joke, that a manufacturer copy a schem from a book or a datasheet, add a (C) and tell everone that's his "invention".

But I'm not unfair, so I don't post a schem of the Nanohead
(if you want to klone it, make a web-search and find ZV's source by yourself, put the snipplets together and you get it).

BTW: You can find a very improoved version of the BS170-datascheet sample at a nearly every German university - build this instead.

JHS


bah.  this is total fiction.  the use of the BS170 as an audio amplifier was relatively unknown until i developed the SHO circuit.  i developed it without the aid of a datasheet.  it was me and the BS170 and a radio snack experimenter's socket and a handful of parts.  all i wanted was something that would let me get way above 1M input impedance and give me a lot of variable gain, so i could let people have incredibly high headroom at low gain settings with a super glassy sound, and a really loud boost with asymmetrical distortion at the other end of the gain knob.  every time  i read about this BS170 datasheet bullshit i laugh my ass off.  it's TOTAL fiction.

the fuzz factory was developed by me in the middle of the night at my kitchen table.  it doesn't exist anywhere, in any form, in any schematic, in any way, before i created the circuit 9 years ago.

this guy is a total troll.  bwahahahahahaha.  what a worthless schmuck.
Title: ...
Post by: petemoore on November 21, 2004, 10:17:44 AM
For the record Zach has just told us how the FF was designed.
  Very Good !!
  It's those RS sockets !!! They're excellent tutors.
  Got a question? ask 'The Sockets'... :shock:
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: ragtime8922 on November 21, 2004, 10:23:14 AM
Get 'em Zachary!!! YEAH!!!
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: DDD on November 21, 2004, 12:05:59 PM
Hi all,
Hi Zachary,

There are some questions:

Could you please explain why 99% of the guitar world is crazy about Fuzz Factory?
What do people like in the FF? Do they like its sound or its name or famous Z.Vex label or its price or something else?
Is it possible to emulate FF sound with some other circuitry or FF schematic is just a Holy Grail?
Are there anybody who don't like FF and why?
Should we continue our efforts to find the FF schematic?  :-)

With true respect,
DDD
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Maneco on November 21, 2004, 12:16:32 PM
Well,i'm a big MUSE fan,and you can hear on many of their songs a FF pushed to the limits...and i love those sounds...sinthy...self oscillating...pay a listen to Absolution CD and be amazed...
Greetings to Mr. Vex
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: coreybox on November 25, 2004, 06:09:27 PM
Ya, it is pretty odd the sho and ff are the only pedals people try to get schematics for. I bet its just because they are the pedals in highest demand, and are a logically place to start in the zvex pedal line.  i also think that the people that buy his pedals, are also the people most against posting his schematics. Personally i would like to see more out there (like the octane) just to see how it differs from some other octavias.

corey
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Benjamin on November 25, 2004, 10:40:29 PM
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: JHS
The schems in the German forum were postet by me.

No credits to ZV at all !!!!!

The SHO-schem is identical to a sample-schem in the BS170 datasheet, identical to a schem in a russian electronik book from early '80, identical to schems in tutorials at German universities since '75.

The FF-schem can be found nearly 1:1 in that russian book too, ex. pot for stab and gate, also in Brocelli's Cookbook.

So, what's the hack?

To me it's just a joke, that a manufacturer copy a schem from a book or a datasheet, add a (C) and tell everone that's his "invention".

But I'm not unfair, so I don't post a schem of the Nanohead
(if you want to klone it, make a web-search and find ZV's source by yourself, put the snipplets together and you get it).

BTW: You can find a very improoved version of the BS170-datascheet sample at a nearly every German university - build this instead.

JHS


bah.  this is total fiction.  the use of the BS170 as an audio amplifier was relatively unknown until i developed the SHO circuit.  i developed it without the aid of a datasheet.  it was me and the BS170 and a radio snack experimenter's socket and a handful of parts.  all i wanted was something that would let me get way above 1M input impedance and give me a lot of variable gain, so i could let people have incredibly high headroom at low gain settings with a super glassy sound, and a really loud boost with asymmetrical distortion at the other end of the gain knob.  every time  i read about this BS170 datasheet bullshit i laugh my ass off.  it's TOTAL fiction.

the fuzz factory was developed by me in the middle of the night at my kitchen table.  it doesn't exist anywhere, in any form, in any schematic, in any way, before i created the circuit 9 years ago.

this guy is a total troll.  bwahahahahahaha.  what a worthless schmuck.



No, he isn't a worthless schmuck. He has a valid point. Your fuzz factory is just a slightly modded Fuzz Face, as well as the Gagan skyripper, for all its differences, comes down to the same basic pedal. I really enjoy my fuzz factory, but I will admit I reverse engineered it, and rebuilt one to my own tastes. I still have a purchased version, but to claim your circuit is unique, incredible, etc... is disingenous at best. It is an elegant circuit, but nothing special.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: tomtom on November 25, 2004, 10:51:24 PM
Quote
Personally i would like to see more out there (like the octane) just to see how it differs from some other octavias.


 The Octane is a slightly tweaked Superfuzz but in a smart kind of way.
I have several old Superfuzz alike boxes (univox, Micafuzz and such) and its by far the best sounding one, quite violent but précise too.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: coreybox on November 25, 2004, 10:59:26 PM
superfuzz eh? im not really familiar with that...... nor do i know how to 'tweak in a smart way' lol. can you direct me to some superfuzz schems? maybe shed some light on how the octane differs from some known schematics? thanks alot!

corey
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 26, 2004, 04:07:32 PM
Quote from: Benjamin
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: JHS
The schems in the German forum were postet by me.

No credits to ZV at all !!!!!

The SHO-schem is identical to a sample-schem in the BS170 datasheet, identical to a schem in a russian electronik book from early '80, identical to schems in tutorials at German universities since '75.

The FF-schem can be found nearly 1:1 in that russian book too, ex. pot for stab and gate, also in Brocelli's Cookbook.

So, what's the hack?

To me it's just a joke, that a manufacturer copy a schem from a book or a datasheet, add a (C) and tell everone that's his "invention".

But I'm not unfair, so I don't post a schem of the Nanohead
(if you want to klone it, make a web-search and find ZV's source by yourself, put the snipplets together and you get it).

BTW: You can find a very improoved version of the BS170-datascheet sample at a nearly every German university - build this instead.

JHS


bah.  this is total fiction.  the use of the BS170 as an audio amplifier was relatively unknown until i developed the SHO circuit.  i developed it without the aid of a datasheet.  it was me and the BS170 and a radio snack experimenter's socket and a handful of parts.  all i wanted was something that would let me get way above 1M input impedance and give me a lot of variable gain, so i could let people have incredibly high headroom at low gain settings with a super glassy sound, and a really loud boost with asymmetrical distortion at the other end of the gain knob.  every time  i read about this BS170 datasheet bullshit i laugh my ass off.  it's TOTAL fiction.

the fuzz factory was developed by me in the middle of the night at my kitchen table.  it doesn't exist anywhere, in any form, in any schematic, in any way, before i created the circuit 9 years ago.

this guy is a total troll.  bwahahahahahaha.  what a worthless schmuck.



No, he isn't a worthless schmuck. He has a valid point. Your fuzz factory is just a slightly modded Fuzz Face, as well as the Gagan skyripper, for all its differences, comes down to the same basic pedal. I really enjoy my fuzz factory, but I will admit I reverse engineered it, and rebuilt one to my own tastes. I still have a purchased version, but to claim your circuit is unique, incredible, etc... is disingenous at best. It is an elegant circuit, but nothing special.


1] he has no valid points.
2]  i made no such claim.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 26, 2004, 04:10:35 PM
Quote from: tomtom
Quote
Personally i would like to see more out there (like the octane) just to see how it differs from some other octavias.


 The Octane is a slightly tweaked Superfuzz but in a smart kind of way.
I have several old Superfuzz alike boxes (univox, Micafuzz and such) and its by far the best sounding one, quite violent but précise too.


the octane is not a tweaked Superfuzz.  the octane is a tweaked apollo fuzz (shin ei).  if the superfuzz is similar to the octane, it's because shin ei manufactured univox stuff as well.  8^)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Mark Hammer on November 26, 2004, 04:34:50 PM
Apollo Fuzz?  Now THAT is lineage, my friend!  I love mine.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 26, 2004, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: Benjamin
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: JHS
The schems in the German forum were postet by me.

No credits to ZV at all !!!!!

The SHO-schem is identical to a sample-schem in the BS170 datasheet, identical to a schem in a russian electronik book from early '80, identical to schems in tutorials at German universities since '75.

The FF-schem can be found nearly 1:1 in that russian book too, ex. pot for stab and gate, also in Brocelli's Cookbook.

So, what's the hack?

To me it's just a joke, that a manufacturer copy a schem from a book or a datasheet, add a (C) and tell everone that's his "invention".

But I'm not unfair, so I don't post a schem of the Nanohead
(if you want to klone it, make a web-search and find ZV's source by yourself, put the snipplets together and you get it).

BTW: You can find a very improoved version of the BS170-datascheet sample at a nearly every German university - build this instead.

JHS


bah.  this is total fiction.  the use of the BS170 as an audio amplifier was relatively unknown until i developed the SHO circuit.  i developed it without the aid of a datasheet.  it was me and the BS170 and a radio snack experimenter's socket and a handful of parts.  all i wanted was something that would let me get way above 1M input impedance and give me a lot of variable gain, so i could let people have incredibly high headroom at low gain settings with a super glassy sound, and a really loud boost with asymmetrical distortion at the other end of the gain knob.  every time  i read about this BS170 datasheet bullshit i laugh my ass off.  it's TOTAL fiction.

the fuzz factory was developed by me in the middle of the night at my kitchen table.  it doesn't exist anywhere, in any form, in any schematic, in any way, before i created the circuit 9 years ago.

this guy is a total troll.  bwahahahahahaha.  what a worthless schmuck.



No, he isn't a worthless schmuck. He has a valid point. Your fuzz factory is just a slightly modded Fuzz Face, as well as the Gagan skyripper, for all its differences, comes down to the same basic pedal. I really enjoy my fuzz factory, but I will admit I reverse engineered it, and rebuilt one to my own tastes. I still have a purchased version, but to claim your circuit is unique, incredible, etc... is disingenous at best. It is an elegant circuit, but nothing special.


1] he has no valid points.
2]  i made no such claim.


let`s put this into a frame... :P

somebody quote this?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Benjamin on November 26, 2004, 06:10:14 PM
No, let us not frame it, let's look at it from a perspective other than simply licking Mr. Vex's boots, and try to get something useful out of all of this. There have been three pedals seriously discussed here, two of which are modified clones, the other of which there does seem to be pretty convincing evidence is not unique, and dates to a much earlier time. So what is all the hoopla about? Everything at this point is a clone, as it is damned hard to make a truly unique circuit. I am not attacking Zvex here, I just find it ironic and sadly hilarious that he gets a little upset when his schematics get posted, but has no problem taking from others.
He has no patent on his circuit, and if he continues to get so upset about the original nature of his Fuzz Factory circuit, I challenge him to attempt to patent it, and then wait for it to get torn to shreds for being an LPB-1 and a Fuzz Face put together. Assuming those two are still patented (probably not).  So let's bring out the trademark Vex smileys when he cannot respond, and his fanatical defenders leaping down my throat.
Title: ..
Post by: petemoore on November 26, 2004, 06:18:38 PM
Why Is this one so hard to figure out ???
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: bobbletrox on November 26, 2004, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: Benjamin
He has no patent on his circuit, and if he continues to get so upset about the original nature of his Fuzz Factory circuit, I challenge him to attempt to patent it, and then wait for it to get torn to shreds for being an LPB-1 and a Fuzz Face put together. Assuming those two are still patented (probably not).  So let's bring out the trademark Vex smileys when he cannot respond, and his fanatical defenders leaping down my throat.


I may have said that Zvex designs aren't protected by patents, but that doesn't automatically give you a right to act like an ass.  The Fuzz Face was never patented in the first place - and there are countless direct clones out there being sold by people who haven't modified the design at all.  Go bug them.

Pedal politics are stupid.  It's like being in Highschool.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Mike Burgundy on November 26, 2004, 10:03:35 PM
All those who are in favour of leaving this thread be and get the heck on with the business of designing pedals and perhaps attempting to make at least some kind of living out of that, raise your hand.
It's all in the archives, if you search hard enough, and needen't be repeated here, wether arguments are  pro, con, undecided or indifferent.

C'mon...smile!
 :P
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Hal on November 26, 2004, 11:25:14 PM
what is the radio shack experimentor's socket?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 27, 2004, 01:01:03 AM
Quote from: Hal
what is the radio shack experimentor's socket?


(http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/ProductImage/276/276-175.jpg)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Hal on November 27, 2004, 01:06:31 AM
HAHAHAHA its just a breadboard...

I thought it was some sort of magical device....
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 27, 2004, 01:08:41 AM
but it IS a magical device!  8^)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 27, 2004, 01:14:18 AM
it indeed is magical, when you succeed sticking things in there
in an unusual, different way...

wished there were HV ones with tube-sockets...


(edit: this was addressed to Hal...)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 27, 2004, 01:20:31 AM
i built the nano head on one.  including the high-voltage switcher.  8^)  i also built my stereo hi-fi prototype on one.  of course, completed, it looks and works much better in an enclosure.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/zacharyvex/fingers.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/zacharyvex/back.jpg)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Dan N on November 27, 2004, 08:52:09 AM
Quote from: puretube
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: Benjamin
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: JHS
The schems in the German forum were postet by me.

No credits to ZV at all !!!!!

The SHO-schem is identical to a sample-schem in the BS170 datasheet, identical to a schem in a russian electronik book from early '80, identical to schems in tutorials at German universities since '75.

The FF-schem can be found nearly 1:1 in that russian book too, ex. pot for stab and gate, also in Brocelli's Cookbook.

So, what's the hack?

To me it's just a joke, that a manufacturer copy a schem from a book or a datasheet, add a (C) and tell everone that's his "invention".

But I'm not unfair, so I don't post a schem of the Nanohead
(if you want to klone it, make a web-search and find ZV's source by yourself, put the snipplets together and you get it).

BTW: You can find a very improoved version of the BS170-datascheet sample at a nearly every German university - build this instead.

JHS


bah.  this is total fiction.  the use of the BS170 as an audio amplifier was relatively unknown until i developed the SHO circuit.  i developed it without the aid of a datasheet.  it was me and the BS170 and a radio snack experimenter's socket and a handful of parts.  all i wanted was something that would let me get way above 1M input impedance and give me a lot of variable gain, so i could let people have incredibly high headroom at low gain settings with a super glassy sound, and a really loud boost with asymmetrical distortion at the other end of the gain knob.  every time  i read about this BS170 datasheet bullshit i laugh my ass off.  it's TOTAL fiction.

the fuzz factory was developed by me in the middle of the night at my kitchen table.  it doesn't exist anywhere, in any form, in any schematic, in any way, before i created the circuit 9 years ago.

this guy is a total troll.  bwahahahahahaha.  what a worthless schmuck.



No, he isn't a worthless schmuck. He has a valid point. Your fuzz factory is just a slightly modded Fuzz Face, as well as the Gagan skyripper, for all its differences, comes down to the same basic pedal. I really enjoy my fuzz factory, but I will admit I reverse engineered it, and rebuilt one to my own tastes. I still have a purchased version, but to claim your circuit is unique, incredible, etc... is disingenous at best. It is an elegant circuit, but nothing special.


1] he has no valid points.
2]  i made no such claim.


let`s put this into a frame... :P

somebody quote this?


Pretty cool!

Now I go to sleep thinking about infinity...
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 27, 2004, 10:07:01 AM
Quote from: Dan N
Quote from: puretube
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: Benjamin
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: JHS

The schems in the German forum were postet by me.
...To me it's just a joke...

JHS


bah. ... i laugh my ass off....



No,...I really enjoy...


1] he has....
2]  i made....


... :P
somebody quote this?


Pretty cool!
...thinking about infinity...


 8)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Hal on November 27, 2004, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: puretube
Quote from: Dan N
Quote from: puretube
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: Benjamin
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: JHS

The schems in the German forum were postet by me.
...To me it's just a joke...

JHS


bah. ... i laugh my ass off....



No,...I really enjoy...


1] he has....
2]  i made....


... :P
somebody quote this?


Pretty cool!
...thinking about infinity...


 8)

sorry. had to do it.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: petemoore on November 27, 2004, 11:31:17 AM
Quote from: Hal
Quote from: puretube
Quote from: Dan N
Quote from: puretube
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: Benjamin
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: JHS

The schems in the German forum were postet by me.
...To me it's just a joke...

JHS


bah. ... i laugh my ass off....



No,...I really enjoy...


1] he has....
2]  i made....


... :P
somebody quote this?


Pretty cool!
...thinking about infinity...


 8)

sorry. had to do it.

  Now just add color...have we reached the point of no return?
  What a strange and cool way to find the end to a thread !!!
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 27, 2004, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: petemoore
Quote from: Hal
Quote from: puretube
Quote from: Dan N
Quote from: puretube
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: Benjamin
Quote from: zachary vex
Quote from: JHS

The schems in the German forum were postet by me.
...To me it's just a joke...

JHS


bah. ... i laugh my ass off....



No,...I really enjoy...


1] he has....
2]  i made....


... :P
somebody quote this?


Pretty cool!
...thinking about infinity...


 8)

...had to do it.

...no return?...

which color,
what end ?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Fret Wire on November 27, 2004, 12:23:03 PM
Are we on the Mojo thread? Is this kansas? Where's Toto? Someone just click their heels, and it will all go away.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 27, 2004, 01:07:51 PM
OK - the fun has moved:
http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=25039&start=225
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: The Tone God on November 27, 2004, 02:32:40 PM
Obligtory Simpsons quote:

"My eyes...the goggles do nothing!" Rainier Wolfcastle

Andrew
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Ansil on November 27, 2004, 08:58:48 PM
SWEET LEAPING JESUS HERE WE GO AGAIN .  Christ if you want to clone a fuzz factory grow balls buy one and reverse it if that is going to float your boat man.[no offense to any parties above.] but i mean lets get over it already its a great pedal well thought out sounds great and is smaller than i would ever have dreamed something should be.  

just don't post the schematics man  there have been plenty of us on this very forum who have looked at zachs work and thought ahh  pretty damn crafty Zach  crafty indeed.  myself included.

i have seen the insides of most of z's pedal line. and i have to say i can appreciate what he has done.   do i have schematics.. yes in my brain. i didn't ever comit it to paper or computer for that matter cause i am not out to steal bread from my fellow builder.

i think if you want to build a factory the best thing to do is to search all the whole forum and look at all the fake ones out there and look at all the times Z has corrected us and helped us out.  he has practically given it away. [i say practically so please read that twice.] at least he has told us how to get close.

look at the nano thread, he showed us where he drew inspiration from.. i say let the fuzzfactory alone.  buy it used man you can get them pretty cheap compared to a new one. or use it as a stepping stone to get your brain working in the same fashion or a new direction.
and for a look at a few people who have cloned things  take this one on for size.

theres a well known pedal builder who's site is down who copied
the bobtavia, part for part.
the bmp and removed the diodes and made it three channels of boost.
and the dearmond square wave or the mxr distortion.. same pedal. different case.

so what goes around comes around.  personally i like RG's article on dirty tricks to make it hard for people to reverse it.  but i like the multilayered board of zvex too as that alone will keep most away since they dont' want to trace down every point with a multilmeter.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Doug_H on November 28, 2004, 01:07:36 PM
;lkj
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: lightningfingers on November 28, 2004, 05:09:20 PM
hey mr vex, in them thar pics of the nano head, whats making that bluish glow?

just curiosity  :P
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: coreybox on November 28, 2004, 05:33:19 PM
tubes...
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 28, 2004, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: lightningfingers
hey mr vex, in them thar pics of the nano head, whats making that bluish glow?

just curiosity  :P


that's not the nano head.  that's the prototype of the 'model zero' stereo hi-fi tube amp.  the orange glow is the tubes, while the blue glow is LEDs.  they're used in the audio path and indicate when the high voltage is active.
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Alex C on November 28, 2004, 10:08:36 PM
Hey Zach, sorry, but blue LEDs have already been used before, you cheating, lying, twisted thief!  Check out this key ring:
(http://www.infinitygc.com.au/shop/images/ovalkeyringledlight.jpg)

You know what I'm gonna give you?  I'm gonna give you to the count of ten to get yer ugly, yellow, no-good keester off my property, before I pump your guts full o' lead!
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 29, 2004, 01:51:54 AM
so those blue leds are in the audio path of the keyrings?
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 29, 2004, 02:35:59 AM
that`s a video device...  :)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 29, 2004, 03:51:17 AM
oh, jesus, you're right!  gahh... they're in the VIDEO path.

just for shits and giggles, i have 5 components per channel in the audio path of my little prototype stereo amp.  it's +1/-1.5 dB from 40Hz to 20KHz.  .5 watts clean.  i don't know how much distortion it has... it's certainly low enough so that the sound is really enjoyable, but i know there must be a lot of bizzare artifacts that i can't measure with my fuzz-specialized collection of test gear.  8^)

the signal path is input transformer (50 ohms)->damping resistor->tube(class AB)->LED (cathode bias)->output transformer (center-tapped custom) with 8 and 16 ohm output taps.  the power supply consists of a toroidal transformer->full wave rectifier->filter cap.  there are independent power supplies for each channel.  the inputs are balanced (RCAs for convenience, but floating grounds) and the outputs are classic brass thumbnuts.  they're pretty clear in the picture.  the schematic, verbally, is this:  input transformer has centertap grounded on secondary with damping resistor across outer windings.  outer windings feed two grids on 6021W.  the cathodes are shorted and go to ground through an ultra-bright blue LED for biasing.  plates are connected to output transformer's primary outer windings, and center tap is connected to HV power supply's output.  hum is canceled.  no preamp tubes means no intermodulation between output and input power supplies!  full balancing means you can strap this baby easily for more power.  low output wattage and voltage means you can re-record directly off the outputs when connected to a speaker load, preserving the bizzare reactive load's interaction with the transformer!  unique shit going on here... i can think of lots of fun applications for adding harmonics to bass and vocals using mild distortion, and what's really fun is you can hear exactly when it's getting sweet through the speaker coming from the amp, before you capture the signal back to your recorder.  think about this... at .5 watts max, if you push the output to .7 watts for added harmonic distortion, an 8 ohm load will result in a 2.3V RMS audio signal isolated electrically on the output, which is well within the range of most consoles using a 20dB pad on the input!  remember, 1V RMS is 0 dBV!

i'm pretty excited about making a commercial product out of this thing.  it's got some little issues right now, but i think they're mostly solvable.  there's some hum from the toroidal transformers coupling directly to the output transformers, and a bit more hum from the input transformers being trapped physically between the toroidal power transformers, but all in all, it's not that noisy for how convenient and small it is.  it would make a really fun headphone amp i think, and a great mixing amp to keep you from turning up too loud... and at maximum power, it would tell you quickly if you had something out of whack balance-wise, or too dynamic in the mix... the offensive item would distort and stick out like a sore thumb!  8^)
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: puretube on November 29, 2004, 04:10:02 AM
8) great!
have you tried different mounting angles between the xfrmrs ("hum")?
nice schemo there! (nothing for me with those video devices, though)
 :wink:


[of course I`m already pondering over a pure-tube 100W booster for that goodie... :lol: ]
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: zachary vex on November 29, 2004, 04:29:36 AM
hah!  i wish i could change something.  once i put those toroidal trannies in there the real estate disappeared completely... i'm lucky to have room to mount the transformers at all!
Title: Fuzz factory
Post by: Ansil on December 01, 2004, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: Doug_H
Quote from: Ansil


theres a well known pedal builder who's site is down who copied
the bobtavia, part for part.


Someone tried to market the bobtavia? Now that's funny! :lol:

Doug


he even asked about how to fix  aproblem on this board.  hlmmm  i bet a search of it will show... on page 2